PSA - Open Door Capital & Brandon Turner

PSA - Open Door Capital & Brandon Turner

Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2008 · 30 posts · 11 votes

I wanted to share a recent experience regarding Open Door Capital, which is run by Brandon Turner.  I have participated in multiple deals with Open Door Capital.  Some have gone well, but the deal I am highlighting did not.  

I, and all the Class B investors, will be losing 100% of our invested capital in this particular syndication.  I invested a substatial amount of money in this deal.


In my view the reasons for the loss are as follows:

1. The syndicators accepted a loan that would need to be refinanced after only 3 years

2. The syndicators didn't anticipate that interest rates and cap rates could rise as quickly as they did.

3. The investment was too highly leveraged, which made refinancing infeasible

Needless to say, I will not be investing with Brandon Turner or Open Door Capital again.  In fact, I may not participate in syndicated investments in the future.  I have never lost money on a deal I personally managed.  If I do continue to invest in syndications it will be with other reputable syndicators like Praxis Capital, Apex One, 37 Parallel, etc.  


To be fair to Brandon Turner and his team, I think they are good people with good intentions, but their foresight in this deal was poor.  Many excuses were made, but at the time of the investment it was obvious that interest rates and cap rates could not go much lower.

I am not very active on Bigger Pockets, but if you would like to ask me any questions feel free to email me.

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Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8mo
Quote from @Brady Winder:

I wanted to share a recent experience regarding Open Door Capital, which is run by Brandon Turner.  I have participated in multiple deals with Open Door Capital.  Some have gone well, but the deal I am highlighting did not.  

I, and all the Class B investors, will be losing 100% of our invested capital in this particular syndication.  I invested a substatial amount of money in this deal.


In my view the reasons for the loss are as follows:

1. The syndicators accepted a loan that would need to be refinanced after only 3 years

2. The syndicators didn't anticipate that interest rates and cap rates could rise as quickly as they did.

3. The investment was too highly leveraged, which made refinancing infeasible

Needless to say, I will not be investing with Brandon Turner or Open Door Capital again.  In fact, I may not participate in syndicated investments in the future.  I have never lost money on a deal I personally managed.  If I do continue to invest in syndications it will be with other reputable syndicators like Praxis Capital, Apex One, 37 Parallel, etc.  


To be fair to Brandon Turner and his team, I think they are good people with good intentions, but their foresight in this deal was poor.  Many excuses were made, but at the time of the investment it was obvious that interest rates and cap rates could not go much lower.

I am not very active on Bigger Pockets, but if you would like to ask me any questions feel free to email me.

I don't do syndications and would not consider them, my personal choice.

But, any investment can go bad. I've had a couple of stinkers myself. That's why we get the big bucks. Sometimes they work out. And we shoot for more wins than losses.

The average at bat hitting for a PROFESSIONAL baseball player is .249 He gets a hit 25% of the time and gets paid millions of dollars for hitting 25% in his contract. 

Are people expecting too much perfection from investors? I don't know Open Door Capital or Brandon Turner or even the circumstances, but from a reality check; seems we ought to keep a  proper perspective.
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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8mo
    in another thread it was mentioned that Brandon moved from Maui to Austin to get a handle on these partnerships.. do you think that has done any good or were they just beyond help as they were cooked before they began ?
  • Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2008 · 30 posts · 11 votes
    8mo

    I think this deal was doomed regardless. The management of the asset was not the problem. It was the financing and underlying assumptions. The deal was not structured to withstand adverse market conditions. 

  • Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8mo
    Quote from @Brady Winder:

    I wanted to share a recent experience regarding Open Door Capital, which is run by Brandon Turner.  I have participated in multiple deals with Open Door Capital.  Some have gone well, but the deal I am highlighting did not.  

    I, and all the Class B investors, will be losing 100% of our invested capital in this particular syndication.  I invested a substatial amount of money in this deal.


    In my view the reasons for the loss are as follows:

    1. The syndicators accepted a loan that would need to be refinanced after only 3 years

    2. The syndicators didn't anticipate that interest rates and cap rates could rise as quickly as they did.

    3. The investment was too highly leveraged, which made refinancing infeasible

    Needless to say, I will not be investing with Brandon Turner or Open Door Capital again.  In fact, I may not participate in syndicated investments in the future.  I have never lost money on a deal I personally managed.  If I do continue to invest in syndications it will be with other reputable syndicators like Praxis Capital, Apex One, 37 Parallel, etc.  


    To be fair to Brandon Turner and his team, I think they are good people with good intentions, but their foresight in this deal was poor.  Many excuses were made, but at the time of the investment it was obvious that interest rates and cap rates could not go much lower.

    I am not very active on Bigger Pockets, but if you would like to ask me any questions feel free to email me.

    I don't do syndications and would not consider them, my personal choice.

    But, any investment can go bad. I've had a couple of stinkers myself. That's why we get the big bucks. Sometimes they work out. And we shoot for more wins than losses.

    The average at bat hitting for a PROFESSIONAL baseball player is .249 He gets a hit 25% of the time and gets paid millions of dollars for hitting 25% in his contract. 

    Are people expecting too much perfection from investors? I don't know Open Door Capital or Brandon Turner or even the circumstances, but from a reality check; seems we ought to keep a  proper perspective.
  • Inland Empire, CA · Member since 2017 · 151 posts · 79 votes
    8mo

    Unfortunately a lot of people were hurt these last few years by floating rate debt and short refi timelines. Sorry to hear you went through that. That's tough. Totally understand why that experience would make anyone question syndications going forward. I'm still involved because I've seen how different outcomes can be depending on structure and risk decisions, but your story is a good reminder of how important those details are. Appreciate you sharing 

  • Stuart UdisPro Member
    Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8mo

    @Brady Winder Can you elaborate on the class B structure and how it differs from Class A? Is this capital that was introduced as a second round of equity? Common vs. pref equity? You mentioned the property is over leveraged and was reliant on short runway debt terms. Was this information disclosed when you made the investment? Specifically, the capital stack set up/sources and uses/ debt terms? Was the information considered as part of your diligence process? 

    Seems many of the ODC properties based on other posters commentary struggle with rent projections as well because the properties are located in markets with a lot of competing inventory anD with additional units being introduced. Has that been an issue? 

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8mo
    Quote from @Brady Winder:

    I wanted to share a recent experience regarding Open Door Capital, which is run by Brandon Turner.  I have participated in multiple deals with Open Door Capital.  Some have gone well, but the deal I am highlighting did not.  

    I, and all the Class B investors, will be losing 100% of our invested capital in this particular syndication.  I invested a substatial amount of money in this deal.


    In my view the reasons for the loss are as follows:

    1. The syndicators accepted a loan that would need to be refinanced after only 3 years

    2. The syndicators didn't anticipate that interest rates and cap rates could rise as quickly as they did.

    3. The investment was too highly leveraged, which made refinancing infeasible

    Needless to say, I will not be investing with Brandon Turner or Open Door Capital again.  In fact, I may not participate in syndicated investments in the future.  I have never lost money on a deal I personally managed.  If I do continue to invest in syndications it will be with other reputable syndicators like Praxis Capital, Apex One, 37 Parallel, etc.  


    To be fair to Brandon Turner and his team, I think they are good people with good intentions, but their foresight in this deal was poor.  Many excuses were made, but at the time of the investment it was obvious that interest rates and cap rates could not go much lower.

    I am not very active on Bigger Pockets, but if you would like to ask me any questions feel free to email me.

    This post and many others similar has caused me to phase from moving to a different lane…  
  • Frank PyleBusiness Member
    Specialist · USA · Member since 2024 · 279 posts · 130 votes
    8mo

    This is the main risk in syndications when the debt maturity is shorter than the business plan and you have no real refi margin. If the loan reset in 3 years, the underwriting should have shown what happens with a 2 to 3 point rate bump and a 50 to 100 bps cap rate expansion, and if that case wipes the equity the leverage was too high. A simple checkpoint I use is does the deal still hit a 1.25 DSCR at the refi under stressed rates and a higher exit cap, and is there enough reserves to survive the gap if not.

    Did they disclose the exact loan terms like LTV, IO period, extensions, and whether there was a rate cap in place, and what DSCR did it underwrite to at maturity day one?

    Frank Pyle at ExP Realty
    NEXA Lending- Investors Edge Concierge
    View Page
    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      8mo
      Quote from @Frank Pyle:

      This is the main risk in syndications when the debt maturity is shorter than the business plan and you have no real refi margin. If the loan reset in 3 years, the underwriting should have shown what happens with a 2 to 3 point rate bump and a 50 to 100 bps cap rate expansion, and if that case wipes the equity the leverage was too high. A simple checkpoint I use is does the deal still hit a 1.25 DSCR at the refi under stressed rates and a higher exit cap, and is there enough reserves to survive the gap if not.

      Did they disclose the exact loan terms like LTV, IO period, extensions, and whether there was a rate cap in place, and what DSCR did it underwrite to at maturity day one?

      other issue facing syndicated apartments was rent compression and vacancy. 
  • Frank PyleBusiness Member
    Specialist · USA · Member since 2024 · 279 posts · 130 votes
    8mo

    Yep and the other squeeze on a lot of apartment syndications has been income going down at the exact time the debt got more expensive. When rents compress and vacancy ticks up, NOI drops fast and that crushes DSCR, valuation, and refi proceeds all at once. Even if you can extend the loan, the lender is looking at today's trailing NOI, not the pro forma, so a soft leasing season can turn a manageable refi into a capital call or a wipeout.

    Do you know how far actual rents and occupancy came in versus the original underwriting, and whether they were banking on big renewals or heavy value add rent bumps to make the debt work?

    Frank Pyle at ExP Realty
    NEXA Lending- Investors Edge Concierge
    View Page
  • FL · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 34 votes
    7mo

    Which deal was this?   When I was looking at their offerings over the course of two years, the South Austin deal (difficult area, sub 4% cap rate) and Sunbelt Portfolio stuck out to me as the most challenged from the start.   Based on the prices paid, absolutely everything would have to go right to see a return.   To complicate matters, their co-GP / operating partner (Disrupt Equity) was in Houston and started operating outside of their historical market.

    As a side note, it forever amazed me that a GP in a top ten metro area buying a vanilla product (70s/80s apartments to refresh) would ever have to move outside of their home market.   Learning one metro area submarket by submarket is incredibly difficult as is.

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