We Need Higher Density & Smaller Homes - Thoughts?
Devin JamesPro Member
Developer · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 502 posts · 306 votesWe Need Higher Density & Smaller Homes - Thoughts?
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
1yNobody is going to build "starter" homes unless there are incentives that help absorb your fixed costs - developing lots, utility connections, grading & surveying, etc. The price to build is not linear so the bigger the house that can be built the greater the profit per SF. Everyone complains that there's no affordable housing anywhere, but that's just not true. Affordable housing is rentals; it's townhouses and condos; it's manufactured housing. Stick built homes on city lots are going to be expensive.
Also, it depends on what area of the country you're talking about. If I wanted to spend an hour doing it, I could probably put together a list of at least 50 cities where you can still buy housing for $100/sf or less. Of course they're not going to be in Charleston or Clearwater or San Antonio; they're going to be mostly in midwestern areas that are dying for any population growth. That's what Americans used to do - they moved to affordable areas. Today's Americans want to live on Sunset Strip and pay Main Street USA prices. Everyone wants to live in the fancy areas with great climates and arts and nightlife and low cost of living and everything else, and it's just not reality.
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- 1yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Quote from @Spencer Haymond:
I always get a little laugh when I see this discussion about "Affordable Housing". I rarely see anyone address the underlying root cause of the issue. Our privately owned and centrally controlled monetary system, known as the Federal Reserve, and the legality of Fractional Reserve Banking is on a crash course for a battle between Freedom (Property Owners) and Royalty (the banks).
Our economic system has inflation, which favors the banks, baked into the system. In a stable free economy the natural tendency is for prices to go down not up. This idea that everything goes up in price is completely fictional. Think about it, was it harder or easier to plumb a house with cast iron or galvanized piping or Pex. Is it harder to wire a house today with a Holehog and 12/2 or Knob and Tube with a hand drill. Was it easier to dig the foundation with shovel, horse and scraper or with a track hoe?Due to economies of scale and technological advancements the prices naturally go down dramatically. The only thing propping them up and forcing them higher is our monetary system and governmental regulations that limit competition in the market place.
Think through what your parent or grandparents paid for their house. Never in the history of the Federal Reserve have prices gone down for any notable period of time. The graph is always up and to the right.
Am I nuts?
I’ll agree with you in general but that is only a portion of the reason.
1. Houses have gotten bigger.
2. There are far fewer people per house.
3. The discussion needs to cover both wages and housing. Manufacturing has gone overseas reducing wages.
4. When you bring in intentionally say 20 million illegal immigrants you lower the wages on lower income people both by their wages and increasing their cost of living thru more competition for resources. I’m fine with immigration, but they have to be vetted and qualified. - 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
I have heard on various news channels that the powers-that-be in California are going to push for much higher density when they rebuild LA after the fires. The groups clamoring for this (in part) are the ones that don't believe people should have SFRs anyway......
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Henry Clark:
Quote from @Spencer Haymond:
I always get a little laugh when I see this discussion about "Affordable Housing". I rarely see anyone address the underlying root cause of the issue. Our privately owned and centrally controlled monetary system, known as the Federal Reserve, and the legality of Fractional Reserve Banking is on a crash course for a battle between Freedom (Property Owners) and Royalty (the banks).
Our economic system has inflation, which favors the banks, baked into the system. In a stable free economy the natural tendency is for prices to go down not up. This idea that everything goes up in price is completely fictional. Think about it, was it harder or easier to plumb a house with cast iron or galvanized piping or Pex. Is it harder to wire a house today with a Holehog and 12/2 or Knob and Tube with a hand drill. Was it easier to dig the foundation with shovel, horse and scraper or with a track hoe?Due to economies of scale and technological advancements the prices naturally go down dramatically. The only thing propping them up and forcing them higher is our monetary system and governmental regulations that limit competition in the market place.
Think through what your parent or grandparents paid for their house. Never in the history of the Federal Reserve have prices gone down for any notable period of time. The graph is always up and to the right.
Am I nuts?
I’ll agree with you in general but that is only a portion of the reason.
1. Houses have gotten bigger.
2. There are far fewer people per house.
3. The discussion needs to cover both wages and housing. Manufacturing has gone overseas reducing wages.
4. When you bring in intentionally say 20 million illegal immigrants you lower the wages on lower income people both by their wages and increasing their cost of living thru more competition for resources. I’m fine with immigration, but they have to be vetted and qualified.I don't think most Americans comprehend the economics of #3 and #4.
#3: onshoring base-line manufacturing (a) creates more employment opportunities for both skilled and unskilled labor (b) creates more employment opportunities of jobs that elevate and train unskilled too skilled labor (c) raises base-line wages and benefits via competition for unskilled labor (d) elevates the entire economic chain via more domestic circulation of $ and (e) less exporting of USD
#4: stopping illegal immigration defends and protects legal immigration. It is an action to protect the immigrant, to lesson and end exploitation of the immigrant. And, of the economy as a whole. Note, I speak of this as an immigrant household.
To expand on #3; international trade is good. When it becomes exploitative as it has with China, it's bad and defensive actions are required. Entire US industries have been decimated due to an exploitative trade imbalance. China manipulates there currency and the situation to gain from such trade imbalance. It has been bad for the general US populace and good for a select elite group of US and international business interests who now seek to manipulate the masses to believe ending it will be bad for them, the people.
Balance is what needs to be restored and the tool as old as the nation to do such is tariffs.
- 1yRobert EllisBusiness MemberDeveloper · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
small homes don't work. we build a stacked triplex much more affordably. density is key and vertical is the key. use that land cost and fixed costs more efficiently. everything we build for apartments is less than 700 square feet and only 2 beds and all 3 story walk ups and all triplexes. by building codes 4 family is commercial and also becomes cost prohibitive. I'm in one of the cheapest building markets in the country which is Columbus Ohio and cheapest land and the problem is lack of new construction in our market on the multifamily side. zoning and land entitlement gaps are the largest problems
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