An Investor Killed!!!!!!!!
Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
An Investor Killed!!!!!!!!
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesQuote from @Account Closed:
So the people that invest in the neighborhoods need to invest in the community and that should be a mandatory requirement
How about the community gives enough of a crap about itself to invest in itself? Naw, that would make way too much sense....
Well, just have the Govt take over all the property in the inner city and run it, that'll fix things! Oh, wait....they already have and that's even worse.
Nothing will change until people - regardless of color - get a f'ing clue and take responsibility for themselves, their actions and thoughts, their families and their neighbors (communities).
Stop blaming skin color, lack of money, investors, Govt, and anybody and everybody else. This is about personal responsibility and nothing else...
92 Replies
- 3yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
probably more frequent than we imagine.
this week in Oregon a cop was shot trying to serve eviction papers. this was less than 3 miles from my personal residence.
Last month I think a landlord got killed by tenant in Washington (State).
But when it comes to shooting in Class D inner cities. The one that sticks in my mind was one in Detroit with a Fellow from Australia.. As we know when the Aussie dollar got super strong against the US dollars after 08 to 2010 meltdown Aussies bought Thousands of SFR's through out the US.
This one investor decided to come to Detroit and do his own renovation having him live at the property for over a month.. He got in a squabble with someone at his property and boom shot and killed.. this one made national news in Australia as many in that country were pretty clueless to how we define neighborhoods by A B C D F . And they would just migrate to props that had the highest % returns and go for it..
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes3yAloha,
Yes, it can be dangerous especially in difficult areas, but Paradise has bad people too. You always need to be alert, and be prepared.
When I was on the mainland, we had a maintenance guy working in a detached home on a Saturday afternoon. He was approached by a guy and his teenage son, looking and acting normal. They were "interested in renting" and asked if they could come in and take a look. They left him for dead and he suffered permanent brain damage.
Another time, we had a cleaning person performing her regular weekly duties in a laundry room of a 20 plus unit property, she was attacked and raped.
I personally, when working maintenance years ago, was on a ladder in the common hallway replacing a fixture when a teen pulls a knife and demands money. I slowly and calmly reached for my wallet, and pulled out my .38. I kept my money.
We have had one, seems like possibly two, RE Sale Agents murdered here at showings over the past 20 years.
Stay alert, stay alive. - Member since 2023 · 14 posts · 7 votes3y
Rest in Peace. So hard to hear. That's why I do this quietly and pray for safety because if anyone knew how much I'm projected to earn in my neighborhood, there may be a bounty on my head. As unfortunate as that is to say. This is just human nature and generally would apply no matter where you live and how much you net.
- 3yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
That's why we don't manage in Class D areas - not worth it.
Logical Property Management4.9446 Reviews - Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
Gee, how did I forget to include the incident that happened here in 2020, on a sunny, Sunday morning. An upset Tenant that was under eviction stabbed the Landlord, who managed to call out the Police. The Tenant shot and killed two officers, set the home ablaze, and completely took out 7 other neighboring homes with it.
Definitely NOT a "D" neighborhood.
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Up here in N Arizona...not many bad guys (one reason I moved here). But a month ago, an investor was having his morning coffee and looking over his new spec build in the forests just south of town.
A bear got him...
Life is never safe....
- Real Estate Agent · Auburn Hills, MI · Member since 2022 · 45 posts · 67 votes3y
Detroit and Baltimore are synonymous for violence but no one seems to ask why? Violence is a bi-product of poverty. Most of the people that we rent to are in unimaginable situations. They can't even come up for air LITERALLY. Yes I know it's poverty worldwide but I'm speaking about US Poverty in predominantly Black Neighborhoods. No one should have to die because they choose to invest in property. If people would get off their high horse and realize they wouldn't be making the "passive income" if it wasn't for the poor Blacks or poor working class in general, let's be honest they know that by now but they don't care, we can't imagine a world without capitalism. So the people that invest in the neighborhoods need to invest in the community and that should be a mandatory requirement but wait that sounds like reparations and Lord knows they don't want to pay for that. I'm sorry about your friend and would love to hear more about both you guys story.
- 3yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Account Closed:
Detroit and Baltimore are synonymous for violence but no one seems to ask why? Violence is a bi-product of poverty. Most of the people that we rent to are in unimaginable situations. They can't even come up for air LITERALLY. Yes I know it's poverty worldwide but I'm speaking about US Poverty in predominantly Black Neighborhoods. No one should have to die because they choose to invest in property. If people would get off their high horse and realize they wouldn't be making the "passive income" if it wasn't for the poor Blacks or poor working class in general, let's be honest they know that by now but they don't care, we can't imagine a world without capitalism. So the people that invest in the neighborhoods need to invest in the community and that should be a mandatory requirement but wait that sounds like reparations and Lord knows they don't want to pay for that. I'm sorry about your friend and would love to hear more about both you guys story.
while I get what your saying 100% having done bizz in Detroit ( south of 8 Mile) South side chicago
Baltimore currently East side of Cleveland rought parts of Philly.. And of course South Side of jackson MS Along with north east Birmingham .. All rough areas and predominately black residence and tenants.. With the vast majority of the buyers of the few thousand properties I have funded for fix and flip ( either retail or to investors) the majority of buyers in those areas for investment purposes are located on the coasts with a vast majority CA based.. I firmly believe that the out of area investors have the best intentions When buying these properties.. One of the big draws is ON PAPER these properties hit the RULES you see on BP IE the 1% rule or better.. And these investors think this is what they need to invest in.. As they have it drummed into them that if the property does not positive cash flow day one its a bad deal.
So now they own these and what they dont know is what happens in these communities and how life goes for those living there its as you described your not sugar coating it but these investors think the tenants should do little to no damage to their homes and will of course pay the rent on time every time and if the rent is not paid on time every time its because they had a poor PM.. Well thats a pipe dream.. Invested in the area means the investors have to live there and go door to door and manage their tenant base hands on to be successful.. One collecting rent on time making sure the property is not getting damaged etc etc. Its a full time job if your going to be successful owning and running rentals in D class inner city.
Now I have also done a lot of business in what we would call Poor white communities of the mid west And I can tell you the same things happen in those communities poor is poor.. Baby Daddys are Baby daddys unstable father figures etc etc In jail on parole its the same thing in those cities just different ethnic backgrounds. I just had a tenant leave a house of ours in Indiana rural town . 7k in damage.. same crap..I have no answer how to change any of this other than those i know that succeed in the Inner city live there and are totally hands on. My Baltimore clients have almost 200 of those row houses surrounding the downtown area. I have actually been in at least 90% of the hundred or so I have personally funded for them.. And they do sell some retail as well. they used to sell to investors but have changed their model and are keeping most all of them as section 8 rents sky rocketed in that market.. But its WORK anyone who thinks this kind of landlording is passive should take heed to what Dave Ramsey says and I quote.. " Anyone who thinks their tenant is going to pay their mortgage has either never been a landlord or is just plain stupid " - Real Estate Agent · Auburn Hills, MI · Member since 2022 · 45 posts · 67 votes3y
@Jay Hinrichs This is true and your years of experience speaks for itself. The west coast investors invest in a number unbeknownst to the reality of that number. The house is 30K for a reason right?! I believe housing is a human right clearly the world thinks different but if the investors would understand that ultimately they are investing in the tenant not just the number on paper.
- 3yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Account Closed:
@Jay Hinrichs This is true and your years of experience speaks for itself. The west coast investors invest in a number unbeknownst to the reality of that number. The house is 30K for a reason right?! I believe housing is a human right clearly the world thinks different but if the investors would understand that ultimately they are investing in the tenant not just the number on paper.
If we can have a very frank conversation here that would be great. I started my HML career in Oakland CA not much problems back then 80s with oakland and such.. AS properties on the west coast sky rocketed.. Some very smart marketing folks started looking at other markets and mid west deep south rust belt areas were what they concentrated on. buy the whole house for less than the down payment in the SF Bay Area or La .. So a lot of beginner investors listened to the Radio shows of the days starting about 2000.. you had a few Groups in LA and Bay area and they would hook up with REhabbers and PMs in markets such as Detroit ( this is where I made my first out of state HML back in 2001 ) and when out of state turn key investing became a real thing and then hundreds of companies jumped on the band wagon and virtually every city had their turn key providers.. I did 200 or so loans in Detroit starting out. But eventually did loans in CHC INDY Memphis Jackson B ham Cleveland Baltimore Philly ATL KC St. L Cinncinati Dayton Akron
All of these cities and many more.. So now we sit at atleast 3000 files funded and virtually all of them for out of country or state investors..
Not to mention i personally owned about 350 of these homes.
Here is why I think things are the way they are and why the investors get a bad wrap by locals govmit folks thinking greedy landlord poor renters are being ripped off etc etc.
These investors as I said they buy a rehabbed home and put a tenant in there.. These inner city tenants for what ever social issues that have nothing to do with the landlord are just very very tough on the houses generally speaking and very unstable. The tenants tend to move constantly and turnover kills landlords.. then when the house goes vacant a few days the local bad folks come in and strip the home. We all know this happens and its not the investor stripping these homes its the people that live in the community.. So now the landlord has had their home trashed a few times and it just becomes a horrid experience for them since they are not there.. And then they finally give up.. the house gets sold as is (usually a wholesaler gets in the middle of it) the local turnkey flipper buys it rehabs it again puts it in the turnkey marketers inventory and the cycle starts a new. I can tell you in Jackson MS I have funded the same house 3 times or more over the last 17 years of working that market.. One investor fails another tries .. this is where a lot of this inventory comes from.
So there is this big push to blame the investor when in fact its those living in the community that are causing the problems. one just needs to drive down the street.. Is it the investor that should be picking up their garbage that just gets stacked out front.. I mean where is the community spirit of helping your neighbors ?
I had 2 homes that I had to take back in Detroit I rehabbed and rented them within a year default and trashed I finally let them go to tax's .. cant continue to put money into a community that does not want to help itself or self police itself.
S chicago is the only place i have seen some community efforts big signs talking about what block this is and neighborhood watch etc etc. - Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes3y
Quote from @Mark Cruse:
I recently decided to sell off portions of my portfolio but I've been in the class d arena my entire time in the business. There was a young investor killed in Baltimore not long ago and it still bothers me. Yea, people die daily in major cities but this one really hit home. He was simply renovating a property and was shot dead outside of it. Man, I can write a book on my in the hood stories and had my share of chaos but I was able to always mitigate stuff. However, this could have been anyone. I just sold my south Baltimore properties and that was the same area which had 28 shot a few weeks back. How frequent is it for investors to face violence? I dont hear about much but it could just be the circle I'm in. What are your horror stories?
We sold a property like 6 or 8 houses away from that murder the week before it happened. Got to be careful in Baltimore.
District Invest Group546 Reviews - 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Account Closed:
So the people that invest in the neighborhoods need to invest in the community and that should be a mandatory requirement
How about the community gives enough of a crap about itself to invest in itself? Naw, that would make way too much sense....
Well, just have the Govt take over all the property in the inner city and run it, that'll fix things! Oh, wait....they already have and that's even worse.
Nothing will change until people - regardless of color - get a f'ing clue and take responsibility for themselves, their actions and thoughts, their families and their neighbors (communities).
Stop blaming skin color, lack of money, investors, Govt, and anybody and everybody else. This is about personal responsibility and nothing else...
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes3y
Buying in Baltimore , IMHO , is not investing , its gambling , and the odds are not in your favor
- Real Estate Agent · Auburn Hills, MI · Member since 2022 · 45 posts · 67 votes3y
@Bruce Woodruff Blaming and truth is two different things. Again WHY are people in poverty? Is it because they don’t care about themselves or is it because they have been trained by a system that made them depend on the system, stole their freedom and lied to them for years. Sure they should care about a community they don’t own and have no equity in. The people investing in the neighborhoods have the resources.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes3y
Quote from @Account Closed:
Detroit and Baltimore are synonymous for violence but no one seems to ask why? Violence is a bi-product of poverty. Most of the people that we rent to are in unimaginable situations. They can't even come up for air LITERALLY. Yes I know it's poverty worldwide but I'm speaking about US Poverty in predominantly Black Neighborhoods. No one should have to die because they choose to invest in property. If people would get off their high horse and realize they wouldn't be making the "passive income" if it wasn't for the poor Blacks or poor working class in general, let's be honest they know that by now but they don't care, we can't imagine a world without capitalism. So the people that invest in the neighborhoods need to invest in the community and that should be a mandatory requirement but wait that sounds like reparations and Lord knows they don't want to pay for that. I'm sorry about your friend and would love to hear more about both you guys story.
There is nothing passive about owning D class rentals.
- Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 672 posts · 677 votes3y
No amount of money is worth investing in bad neighborhoods. What can you do? Invest in better neighborhoods. Train to have good situational awareness, train to carry a firearm, and train to defend yourself. No one cares about your personal safety as much as you do, just like personal finance.Try to not put yourself in situations where it can lead to backing someone in a corner they feel they can't get out of and do something desperate. I feel fortunate my W2 job developed those skills to where I'm not worried, just always aware.
Outside of those things, realize sometimes life happens and don't kid yourself that we can rid all poverty and violence in America. The education and willingness to learn just isn't there.
- Real Estate Agent · Auburn Hills, MI · Member since 2022 · 45 posts · 67 votes3y
@Jay Hinrichs I can’t tell you how much I overstand this being a Realtor and Investor in the Detroit market myself. For the last 8 years I’ve seen inventory recycled multiple times. So how do we solve the problem? Like Dave Ramsey said (I think it was Ramsey) live where you want and invest where it makes sense. Although the returns look good on paper it doesn’t make sense to invest in problems and for those that want to take the risk find reliable professionals and build relationships in the community.
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Account Closed:
@Bruce Woodruff Blaming and truth is two different things. Again WHY are people in poverty? Is it because they don’t care about themselves or is it because they have been trained by a system that made them depend on the system, stole their freedom and lied to them for years. Sure they should care about a community they don’t own and have no equity in. The people investing in the neighborhoods have the resources.
We can agree that the Govt Welfare system has been the chief cause of keeping people in this 'bondage' you refer to. But we disagree on the rest. When you live in a neighborhood for years, walk the streets, make friends, shop the local stores, etc...you do in fact have an investment. You can ignore that as most do, or you can invest in it and bring that neighborhood to a better place.
Once again it is solely about personal responsibility and choice. No more, no less.
- Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes3y
I've seen my share, but I think far too much of that is from arrogant and angry landlords trying to impose their wills. I've literally heard a landlord loudly tell her late tenant to his face in front of his house that she was tired of dealing with, er, female-dog-back-end losers like him. You don't go around saying things like that to people who have nothing but their pride left, especially when you own the roof over their heads.
- Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes3y
Tragic to hear but unfortunately not that surprising. The crime rate is really skyrocketed in the last few years.
- Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes3yI read about that. Up in Groom Creek right? I used to live up there, and miss it.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Up here in N Arizona...not many bad guys (one reason I moved here). But a month ago, an investor was having his morning coffee and looking over his new spec build in the forests just south of town.
A bear got him...
Life is never safe....
- Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes3yWe sold all of our Class D properties last year and I may not even renew my concealed carry permit when it expires, I just don’t need it anymore. Feels good and I’m sticking to Class A’s and B’s here on out. We had 3 kidnappings, a stabbing, and 2 deaths in those units over the past few years. Returns were great on paper, but it turns out the Class A and B properties are better in reality, at least within my portfolio and personal experience. Gotta start somewhere though!
Quote from @Mark Cruse:
I recently decided to sell off portions of my portfolio but I've been in the class d arena my entire time in the business. There was a young investor killed in Baltimore not long ago and it still bothers me. Yea, people die daily in major cities but this one really hit home. He was simply renovating a property and was shot dead outside of it. Man, I can write a book on my in the hood stories and had my share of chaos but I was able to always mitigate stuff. However, this could have been anyone. I just sold my south Baltimore properties and that was the same area which had 28 shot a few weeks back. How frequent is it for investors to face violence? I dont hear about much but it could just be the circle I'm in. What are your horror stories?
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Steve K.:
I read about that. Up in Groom Creek right? I used to live up there, and miss it.Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Up here in N Arizona...not many bad guys (one reason I moved here). But a month ago, an investor was having his morning coffee and looking over his new spec build in the forests just south of town.
A bear got him...
Life is never safe....
Yes. Quite tragic indeed, He was sitting outside in the morning admiring his new dream house being constructed and didn't hear the bear coming. At least it was quick (hopefully)....A neighbor heard his screams and shot the bear with a rifle....but too late.
- 3yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Steve K.:
We sold all of our Class D properties last year and I may not even renew my concealed carry permit when it expires, I just don’t need it anymore. Feels good and I’m sticking to Class A’s and B’s here on out. We had 3 kidnappings, a stabbing, and 2 deaths in those units over the past few years. Returns were great on paper, but it turns out the Class A and B properties are better in reality, at least within my portfolio and personal experience. Gotta start somewhere though!Quote from @Mark Cruse:
I recently decided to sell off portions of my portfolio but I've been in the class d arena my entire time in the business. There was a young investor killed in Baltimore not long ago and it still bothers me. Yea, people die daily in major cities but this one really hit home. He was simply renovating a property and was shot dead outside of it. Man, I can write a book on my in the hood stories and had my share of chaos but I was able to always mitigate stuff. However, this could have been anyone. I just sold my south Baltimore properties and that was the same area which had 28 shot a few weeks back. How frequent is it for investors to face violence? I dont hear about much but it could just be the circle I'm in. What are your horror stories?
Was that D class in Denver .. just curious the general location of the properties you sold.
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