Open Carry, Concealed carry or no carry while do business

Property Manager · San Antonio Texas · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 29 votes

I am an advocate of "its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it" I do know some people don't feel comfortable with open carry. I have heard the argument it is safer for some people to draw and protect themselves while open carry. Just wanted to get others opinion.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

Open carry is an immediate deterrent. However, someone that's not planning a crime and not familiar with guns (thanks, media!) may see it as a threat so concealed carry may be better. I don't think there's a perfect answer.

When I carry, which is rare, I carry concealed just because I don't want to be seen as a threat to anyone.

No matter which one you choose, be sure to practice and ensure you are comfortable with the draw and know how to carry safely with one in the chamber. You may not have time to rack when the time comes.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
Open carry is an immediate deterrent. However, someone that's not planning a crime and not familiar with guns (thanks, media!) may see it as a threat so concealed carry may be better. I don't think there's a perfect answer.
When I carry, which is rare, I carry concealed just because I don't want to be seen as a threat to anyone.
No matter which one you choose, be sure to practice and ensure you are comfortable with the draw and know how to carry safely with one in the chamber. You may not have time to rack when the time comes.
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Renay Reese
OP
Property Manager · San Antonio Texas · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 29 votes
7y
@Nathan Gesner Could you (by law) would you allow or deny an employee or agent to carry concealed or open? Iam just wondering we had a potential agent ask us.....thanks in advance.
Renay R
2 Reply
Robert Higdon
Real Estate Agent · Smyrna, GA · Member since 2018 · 31 posts · 35 votes
7y
I believe concealed carry is best. Regardless of how normal citizens view a person who is open carrying, my concern is more so how the threat/criminal can use it as an advantage. Without a doubt, it can be a deterrent, but it can also benefit the criminal by knowing who is the threat to them to focus on first.
13 Reply
Ryan McGrath
Contractor · Middleboro, MA · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 25 votes
7y
Concealed carry is best. I get that open carry is a deterrent, however when you walk around open carry, that's a very loud statement and now everyone knows you carry. Never blow the element of surprise.
I don't know the legalities of telling someone whether they can and can't carry, but to me, it's none of my business whether someone legally carry's a gun or not.
13 Reply
Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
Open carry of a sidearm looks intimidating to many people.
The question is do you want to look intimidating to your tenants and those who might see you. Maybe yes, maybe no.
Just don't break the laws of your area.
Good Luck!
4 Reply
Elbert D.
Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 367 votes
7y
I think if you been in the real estate industry anytime longer than a year you slowly see how many irrational people are within the industry. That’s on all sides. Tenants to property managers to any and everything above and in between. It’s a reason some people call it the professional drug game....With that being said. I think people should be allowed to protect themselves if a situation came arises or for any potential harm.
7 Reply
Clifford Paul
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 483 posts · 956 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Renay Reese:

I am an advocate of "its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it" I do know some people don't feel comfortable with open carry. I have heard the argument it is safer for some people to draw and protect themselves while open carry.
When a person open carries they are simply advertising take me out first.
17 Reply
Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
I do not carry. I place my own tenants and make every effort to avoid unstable and seriously disordered individuals, addicts, and those actively engaging in criminal activities. I really like most of my tenants and I would never want them to feel threatened or to feel that I view them as a threat to my safety (if I felt that way, I wouldn't have rented to them.)
13 Reply
Jason D.
Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
I dont carry. Like 99.9% of the civilian population, I'm not sure I would act appropriately if I was faced with that type of danger and carrying a gun. If I feel so unsafe that I feel a gun is appropriate or necessary, I leave.
With all of these 'stand your ground laws', you never know what someone else will perceive as a threat, and act on against you if yo are carrying, especially openly
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
@Renay Reese that's a good question. I have a written office policy manual that explicitly permits my employees and sales agents to carry at their discretion. My only requirement is that they notify me of their decision to carry. We're a pretty safe area and don't do night showings or anything high risk so none of them feel the need. The women carry pepper spray and one of my past employees kept a gun in her desk, pepper spray on the desk, and a taser in her purse.
She was a nut and I fired her (not related to weapons).
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
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Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
Well said @Jason D. that is the issue with carrying a gun. No matter how much target practice, you are never ready for show time. Even police who go through training have been known to shoot an unarmed person or kill a bystander. The reality is that gun is more likely to make the situation worse than better. Even someone seeing the gun could cause escalation that otherwise would not occur. Crazy people are not scared off by seeing a gun, they are enraged and empowered. Try shooting someone amped up on meth and see what really happens. I know a gun sounds good in theory, but there are safer ways to protect yourself.
Pepper spray is way more effective. Even if you aim wrong, it still works. You spray the wrong person, they still live. If someone manages to get the pepper spray out of your hand, it can't be used to kill you (unlike a gun). If someone sees you carrying pepper spray, they will not be threatened. If pepper spray goes off by accident, it doesn't leave a hole in you. You can bring pepper spray pretty much anywhere, so no need to leave it in the car when there is "no guns" signs. I went hiking in Yellowstone and guess what I brought to protect myself from bears (not a gun).
Whatever you all do, please be careful.
13 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
@Joe Splitrock that's a fairy tale spread by anti-gunners. You are twice as likely to die in a bike accident, 4x as likely to choke on food, and about 90x more likely to die in a car accident. There are hundreds of videos on the internet of armed citizens stopping crime and the VAST, OVERWHELMING majority of them are untrained people that rarely - if ever - have shot a gun. There are an estimated 1 - 2 million crimes a year stopped by brandishing a gun and fewer than 600 deaths from accidental shootings.
Pepper spray is not as effective. We've all seen people on drugs sprayed by the cops, tased, beaten, and they still keep coming. That doesn't happen when they have a fist-sized hole in their chest or head. And what about the people that are attacked in an enclosed space? Pepper spray will affect them as much as the perp, making it difficult to escape. What if there are multiple attackers?
Everyone has the right to protect themselves and a gun may be the most effective method, particularly for smaller, weaker people. You can choose to use pepper spray or learn how to knee the groin of a man wrapped in a padded suit but I'll stick to something with a little more oomph.
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Dana WhickerPro Member
Investor · Fernandina Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 557 posts · 374 votes
7y
@Renay Reese For a civilian, open carrying looks very different to people based on their experience level with firearms. To someone with no experience, you potentially look like a maniac. To someone experienced and comfortable with firearms, you look like a scared little human.
I wouldn't do business with either.
4 Reply
Andre Debs
Westchester, NY · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 52 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

@Joe Splitrock that's a fairy tale spread by anti-gunners. You are twice as likely to die in a bike accident, 4x as likely to choke on food, and about 90x more likely to die in a car accident. There are hundreds of videos on the internet of armed citizens stopping crime and the VAST, OVERWHELMING majority of them are untrained people that rarely - if ever - have shot a gun. There are an estimated 1 - 2 million crimes a year stopped by brandishing a gun and fewer than 600 deaths from accidental shootings.
Pepper spray is not as effective. We've all seen people on drugs sprayed by the cops, tased, beaten, and they still keep coming. That doesn't happen when they have a fist-sized hole in their chest or head. And what about the people that are attacked in an enclosed space? Pepper spray will affect them as much as the perp, making it difficult to escape. What if there are multiple attackers?
Everyone has the right to protect themselves and a gun may be the most effective method, particularly for smaller, weaker people. You can choose to use pepper spray or learn how to knee the groin of a man wrapped in a padded suit but I'll stick to something with a little more oomph.
Not that I’m anti-gun but statistics are easily manipulated. There are millions more people who ride drive cars than own guns. food is something you can’t go without bc you die without essential nutrients. And being more likely to die on a bike is a fairytale. Let’s take Florida as an example (which usually has the highest bicycle fatality rate in the United States):
Gun fatalities: 12.6 per 100,000 people
Bicycle fatalities: 5.7 per MILLION people
2 Reply
Jason D.
Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Nathan G. I'm not sure where your data comes from, but there were more gun fatalities that auto fatalities.
I'm also suspect that there is any evidence that civilian guns stopped 1 - 2 million crimes. Is there credible evidence of this either?
I'm a gun owner and hunter, and a supporter of the 2nd amendment, but these stats seem suspect to me.
1 Reply
Bryan Devitt
Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes
7y
@Andre Debs if you're going to give stats, give honest ones. 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides, how many bike accidents were? Compare accidental deaths to accidental deaths
3 Reply
Bryan Devitt
Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes
7y
@Jason D. 40k people die a year in car accidents and 10k people a year are killed by guns (not counting suicides). That 10k also includes self defense, suicide by cop, justified police shootings, etc
1 Reply
Jason D.
Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Bryan Devitt I'm not really looking to debate gun policy, this isnt the place for that. I've stated my position on caring a firearm and the reason why I feel that way. You are free to have another position.
2 Reply
Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Renay Reese
Most of the time, it is best to simply be a good witness. If you are fully trained, which is rare, I recommend concealed. If you’re open carry you are not only a target to be first shot, you are a target to have your weapon taken from you. Also, the police cannot tell if you are friend or foe. If you conceal carry and with somebody, train them that when they call 9-1-1 to tell the police you are not the bad guy, and tell the police what you look like and are wearing. Friendly fire still kills. And no, taking a class so you can conceal carry does not mean you are fully trained.
2 Reply
Lee Bell
Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
7y
I don't carry a gun, I don't even own one, don't feel the need.
And as an appraiser I am going through every room in the house. Sometimes in less than great hoods.
So, if I am not comfortable with the situation, I will leave. That is extremely rare and I try to avoid getting into the wrong place at the wrong time in the first place.
3 Reply
Rion Redinger
Flipper/Rehabber · Amboy, WA · Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 28 votes
7y
@Jill F. - I think you have the best approach to this matter, thoroughly screen potential tenants and the issue is negated a great deal. However - when you are going to a property to inspect before signing a contract - you don't get the same opportunity to screen them, this is when some self defense mechanism is needed.
@Renay Reese
The mechanism you choose to use should ALWAYS be kept concealed from the potential threat. If you are a black belt in a martial art, you wouldn't show up in your training garb advertising that you have that skill...... so why would anyone choose to do the same with a sidearm, pepper spray, baton, etc....? If the neighborhood is a sketchy one - bring an assistant with you, they can help spot and avoid any danger before there is a need for self defense.
0 Reply
Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Rion Redinger Hi Rion, I don't show a unit until I have a completed application including a pay stub documenting employment and income, a copy of the applicant Driver's License and I will have run public record court searches for all munis and counties listed on the application. Usually I have also checked for disqualifying content on social media accounts. I do not charge an application fee until I am ready to offer the unit to an applicant assuming that there is no disqualifying info on the credit/background report which I do run even though I don't require good credit. I do this to protect myself and my current tenants because when I have a renovated unit, I require 60 days notice and I make every effort to have a tenant ready to move in within two days of the old tenant move out. (My renovated units are unusually nice at each price point where I compete-- and so far, I have always had multiple applicants that want to rent; even in the dead of winter and right before the Christmas holidays). I am adding content to my next add to explain that I offer the unit to qualified applicants based on the application time date/stamp. I have decided not to make guesses about prospective tenant's future behavior. A person will either meet my criteria or not. if they meet my income criteria, length of job, have good refs, don't have serious criminal backgrounds, or evictions, they get the offer based on date/time stamp. With really bad credit I do require (in addition to first month and security deposit) 1/2 to a full last month's rent and/or a good honestrenter.com score.
1 Reply
Rion Redinger
Flipper/Rehabber · Amboy, WA · Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 28 votes
7y
@Jill F.
What do you do to prepare for a property inspection before purchase? Or do you only buy turn key properties?
I know that some of the properties I’m interested in leave me wondering how someone else might approach the first meeting and property walk with the potential seller. Vacant properties and properties bought at auction both seem like the highest risk for an altercation with an occupant.
0 Reply
Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
So far we have bought our units off of MLS and are working on one off-market deal.
We renovate our units each time an existing tenant moves out of a newly purchased property. If my husband and I mostly diy it, it takes us about 6 weeks to do the reno.
When we purchase, If there are agents involved we might not even meet the seller. In our county (in Ohio) they don't do round table close so we might purchase a property and never meet the seller.
We'll have our agent, myself, our handyman and a trusted contractor we have worked with for many years, my husband and my son whenever possible when we do inspections. I usually spend my time, if the seller is present, keeping him/her out of the way if needed, pumping tenants for info, taking measurements for room sizes and drawing floor plans with doors and windows and noting appliances and taking pictures.
We look for value add properties that are in decent structural and mechanical condition (except for one deal that we got really cheap). We don't like SF houses that have been hacked up into apartments, only buildings built for multi.
When the seller is there it is useful to have someone (that's usually my job) to walk with the seller. I usually come away with a good bit of useful info. In my limited experience, I have found the process to be easier with agents involved.
1 Reply
Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
Personally, I think the USA would be better off with European-style gun control. Since that's not going to happen, I carry a weapon with a concealed-carry permit. Concealed-carry is far wiser than open-carry in our society. I think @Dana Whicker and @Anthony Wick hit that exactly in the nose.
I constantly find people are not speaking the same language about the same things on either side of the gun control debate. The debate is like a machine that riles us all up and sets us at each other.
Just in case people reading this aren't familiar with my situation, I'm a DIY low-income landlord in C/D-class neighborhoods within a couple of small target areas. I'm well know in those areas. I personally know other landlords who have been forced to pull their gun out and brandish it to stop the commission of a crime. I thankfully have not, but with my luck, I suspect I'll end up in that situation one day.
Am I frightened of my tenants? No. Like @Jill F., who has a business model I respect, if I end up in that situation it most likely means I haven't done my job well. But I can't control every element of the neighborhoods I'm in, and I'm in those neighborhoods every day as a known quantity, the handyman landlord who owns multiple properties in the area.
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