Advice for an Experienced Investor ( with no local experience at all)

Private Lending & Conventional Mortgage Advice
2yFollow

Advice for an Experienced Investor ( with no local experience at all)

Don Nicolussi
Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 1 vote

Hi, Everyone. I just wanted to introduce myself. I am based in Australia and an Australian citizen looking to start investing in Duplex to  4plex-style residential. Perhaps you could say I am an experienced property investor, but I have precisely zero experience purchasing real estate in your country.  In the past, I have owned residential real estate in remote locations ( other countries than my own ) and been successful in buy-and-flip, buy-and-hold, and some simple small-townhouse developments. Right now, I am reading everything I can and preparing for my next research trip to North Carolina. My goals are not too crazy, but I do want to establish a portfolio that is significant to my family over the next ten years. Back home, I work as a mortgage broker. My real passion is residential real estate. I don't know if any of my experience will transfer to your country, but I have noticed over the years that despite the number crunching and research, real estate is ( for me at least ) a people business. That is, the real task is to find good like-minded people. Buying sight unseen is not an issue for me, but I would only buy in locations I have visited and walked.  Anyway, I value everyone's time, and just in case you see my name pop up in a forum thread, you will have some context. 

1Reply
23 views

Most Popular Reply

Michael SmytheBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y

@Don Nicolussi not sure what you mean by "owner turnover rates"?

What we do see is that many investors aren't doing enough research to understand the submarkets, leading them having unrealistic expectations. 

Then, they blame everyone, but their own lack of research, for property/tenant performance not being what they came up with on paper:(

Logical Property Management4.9453 Reviews
WebsiteView Page
1Reply
See this reply in the discussion

11 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Andrew Zamboroski
    Lender · Member since 2021 · 495 posts · 130 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Nicolussi:

    Hi, Everyone. I just wanted to introduce myself. I am based in Australia and an Australian citizen looking to start investing in Duplex to  4plex-style residential. Perhaps you could say I am an experienced property investor, but I have precisely zero experience purchasing real estate in your country.  In the past, I have owned residential real estate in remote locations ( other countries than my own ) and been successful in buy-and-flip, buy-and-hold, and some simple small-townhouse developments. Right now, I am reading everything I can and preparing for my next research trip to North Carolina. My goals are not too crazy, but I do want to establish a portfolio that is significant to my family over the next ten years. Back home, I work as a mortgage broker. My real passion is residential real estate. I don't know if any of my experience will transfer to your country, but I have noticed over the years that despite the number crunching and research, real estate is ( for me at least ) a people business. That is, the real task is to find good like-minded people. Buying sight unseen is not an issue for me, but I would only buy in locations I have visited and walked.  Anyway, I value everyone's time, and just in case you see my name pop up in a forum thread, you will have some context. 

    Definitely a people business, especially being out of country. Find a good team you can trust (realtor, property manager, and lender). With the right folks, it’s amazing what you can accomplish without ever being there in person.
    0Reply
  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Don Nicolussi

    Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location to invest in.

    If you apply Class A assumptions to a Class B or C purchase, your expectations won’t be met and it may be a financial disaster.

    So, when investing in areas they don’t really know, investors should research the different property Class submarkets.

    Here’s our OPINION for the Metro Detroit market (use as a template for your target area!) that we’ve learned in our 24 years, managing almost 700 doors across the Metro Detroit area, including almost 100 S8 leases.:

    Class A Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.
    Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% the more recent norm.
    Tenant Pool: Majority will have FICO scores of 680+, zero evictions in last 7 years.

    Class B Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, decent amount of relative rent & value appreciation.
    Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% should be applied only if proper research done to support.
    Tenant Pool: Majority will have FICO scores of 620-680, some blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 5 years

    Class C Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, high cashflow and at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation. Can try to reposition to Class B, but neighborhood may impede these efforts.
    Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, but 15-20% should be used to also cover tenant nonpayment, eviction costs & damages.
    Tenant Pool: majority will have FICO scores of 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 2 years. Verifying last 2 years of rental history very important! Also, focus on 2 years of job/income stability.

    Class D Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation
    Vacancy Est: 20%+ should be used to cover nonpayment, evictions & damages.
    Tenant Pool: majority will have FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, recent evictions. Verifying last 2 years of rental history and income extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.

    Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

    PM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!

    Logical Property Management4.9453 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Don Nicolussi
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    2y
    Quote from @Andrew Zamboroski:
    Quote from @Don Nicolussi:

    Hi, Everyone. I just wanted to introduce myself. I am based in Australia and an Australian citizen looking to start investing in Duplex to  4plex-style residential. Perhaps you could say I am an experienced property investor, but I have precisely zero experience purchasing real estate in your country.  In the past, I have owned residential real estate in remote locations ( other countries than my own ) and been successful in buy-and-flip, buy-and-hold, and some simple small-townhouse developments. Right now, I am reading everything I can and preparing for my next research trip to North Carolina. My goals are not too crazy, but I do want to establish a portfolio that is significant to my family over the next ten years. Back home, I work as a mortgage broker. My real passion is residential real estate. I don't know if any of my experience will transfer to your country, but I have noticed over the years that despite the number crunching and research, real estate is ( for me at least ) a people business. That is, the real task is to find good like-minded people. Buying sight unseen is not an issue for me, but I would only buy in locations I have visited and walked.  Anyway, I value everyone's time, and just in case you see my name pop up in a forum thread, you will have some context. 

    Definitely a people business, especially being out of country. Find a good team you can trust (realtor, property manager, and lender). With the right folks, it’s amazing what you can accomplish without ever being there in person.

     Hi Andrew,

    Thanks for your reply. In my country, I have a good credit score, and as a mortgage broker, I understand that score is just one small data point. When considering DSCR finance, are there any products that foreign nationals can use with no local credit score? Do you have any tips on building a score?

    0Reply
  • Don Nicolussi
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    2y
    Quote from @Michael Smythe:

    @Don Nicolussi

    Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location to invest in.

    If you apply Class A assumptions to a Class B or C purchase, your expectations won’t be met and it may be a financial disaster.

    So, when investing in areas they don’t really know, investors should research the different property Class submarkets.

    Here’s our OPINION for the Metro Detroit market (use as a template for your target area!) that we’ve learned in our 24 years, managing almost 700 doors across the Metro Detroit area, including almost 100 S8 leases.:

    Class A Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.
    Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% the more recent norm.
    Tenant Pool: Majority will have FICO scores of 680+, zero evictions in last 7 years.

    Class B Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, decent amount of relative rent & value appreciation.
    Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% should be applied only if proper research done to support.
    Tenant Pool: Majority will have FICO scores of 620-680, some blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 5 years

    Class C Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, high cashflow and at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation. Can try to reposition to Class B, but neighborhood may impede these efforts.
    Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, but 15-20% should be used to also cover tenant nonpayment, eviction costs & damages.
    Tenant Pool: majority will have FICO scores of 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 2 years. Verifying last 2 years of rental history very important! Also, focus on 2 years of job/income stability.

    Class D Properties:
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation
    Vacancy Est: 20%+ should be used to cover nonpayment, evictions & damages.
    Tenant Pool: majority will have FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, recent evictions. Verifying last 2 years of rental history and income extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.

    Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

    PM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!


    Thanks for that detailed reply, Michael. 

    I agree that it is essential to understand the differences in every sub-market. 

    Do you see any difference in owner turnover rates when managing the classes and submarkets A,B,C, and D? 

    Do you find any difference in the experience level of the investors in each subclass, or is it more about investors using higher yield properties, balance cashflow for class A property, etc? 

    0Reply
  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Don Nicolussi not sure what you mean by "owner turnover rates"?

    What we do see is that many investors aren't doing enough research to understand the submarkets, leading them having unrealistic expectations. 

    Then, they blame everyone, but their own lack of research, for property/tenant performance not being what they came up with on paper:(

    Logical Property Management4.9453 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Don Nicolussi
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    2y

    Do you find that newer investors focus on c and d sub-markets? Or is there no relationship between an investor's experience and the submarket? 

    0Reply
  • Lindsay Stewart
    Investor · Melbourne, Victoria · Member since 2015 · 203 posts · 58 votes
    2y

    Welcome Don!  The U.S. market is certainly a different market from Australia but can be very lucrative even for us as foreign investors.  I am also an aussie and have been investing in the US now for over 10 years.  If i can help at all, let me know!

    0Reply
  • Stacy RaskinBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 500 votes
    2y

    There are DSCR rental property loans for foreign nationals (non-U.S. citizens who don't live in the U.S) that are 25% down for a single family rental property and 30% down for a 2-4 unit property. Minimum loan amount is $100,000. The loan options vary by state. U.S. credit is not necessary as the loan will be assigned a 680 credit score.

    More info on DSCR loans in general: DSCR loans won't use your income to underwrite the loan.

    DSCR loans are based off of down payment, credit score and either actual or market rents so it helps to supercharge an investor's real estate goals and net worth.

    Here's a bit more in detail about how rates are calculated for DSCR loans:

    1. Credit score- the higher the best. 760-780+ generally gets best pricing for investment property loans with most lenders. From there every 20 point increment affect pricing differently. So for example, a 761 credit score will be in the 760-779 credit category, then going down to 740-759 and so on.

    Some foreign national loan programs will assign a 680 credit score to the loan since foreign credit won't be considered for this loan program. 

    2. Loan to value ratio: The higher the loan to value ratio (LTV) is, pricing takes a hit. So your pricing will be higher for a 80% LTV loan than for a 60% LTV loan.

    3. Prepayment penalties- usually 1-5 year terms. The shorter the prepayment term has an impact on increasing the rate.

    4. Are you cash flowing the property? More on how that is calculated below. Is your DSCR ratio greater than 1-meaning are you cash flowing (according to the lender's criteria of mortgage, property taxes and insurance (and HOA) if applicable). Many lenders will not do a DSCR loan unless cash flowing. If they will do a loan with less than 1, the pricing takes a hit. This criteria is for 1-4 and 5-8 unit programs.

    I've included an example below to help illustrate this.

    So different lenders have different rates (which do vary even for DSCR loans) but these are factors they all consider.

    See example below:

    DSCR < 1

    Principal + Interest = $1,700

    Taxes = $350, Insurance = $100, Association Dues = $50

    Total PITIA = $2200

    Rent = $2000

    DSCR = Rent/PITIA = 2000/2200 = 0.91

    Since the DSCR is 0.91, we know the expenses are greater than the income of the property.

    DSCR >1

    Principal + Interest = $1,500

    Taxes = $250, Insurance = $100, Association Dues = $25

    Total PITIA = $1875 Rent = $2300

    DSCR = Rent/PITIA = 2300/1875 = 1.23

    If a purchase, you also generally need reserves / savings to show you have 3-6 month payments of PITIA (principal / interest (mortgage payment), property taxes and insurance and HOA (if applicable). If a cash out refinance, many lenders will allow the cash out to satisfy the reserves requirement.

    DSCR lenders generally let you vest either individually or as a U.S. LLC. It's a great way to increase your net worth and these loans can also be used to pull cash out of a property as it appreciates allowing you to reinvest money into new deals.

    Happy to discuss further. 

    [email protected]818-770-0340
    Bright Skyline518 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Todd AndersonPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2023 · 392 posts · 175 votes
    2y

    Don,  Congrats on the decision to start your investing journey.  Being in the industry now will help greatly.

    I work with out of state and out of country investors every day. We have worked with lenders that offer great DSCR rated to foreign investors on New construction investment property. We act as your 'boots on the ground" for every deal we work on. We also have preferred venders in place for lending, insurance and Property Management.

    One of the markets that we have a great builder partner is in North Carolina.  I was just looking at a duplex with an investor last week in Charlotte.  

    Please feel free to connect for any detailed questions.  Best of luck!!

    [email protected]651-492-5652
    0Reply
  • Don Nicolussi
    OP
    Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    2y
    Quote from @Stacy Raskin:

    There are DSCR rental property loans for foreign nationals (non-U.S. citizens who don't live in the U.S) that are 25% down for a single family rental property and 30% down for a 2-4 unit property. Minimum loan amount is $100,000. The loan options vary by state. U.S. credit is not necessary as the loan will be assigned a 680 credit score.

    More info on DSCR loans in general: DSCR loans won't use your income to underwrite the loan.

    DSCR loans are based off of down payment, credit score and either actual or market rents so it helps to supercharge an investor's real estate goals and net worth.

    Here's a bit more in detail about how rates are calculated for DSCR loans:

    1. Credit score- the higher the best. 760-780+ generally gets best pricing for investment property loans with most lenders. From there every 20 point increment affect pricing differently. So for example, a 761 credit score will be in the 760-779 credit category, then going down to 740-759 and so on.

    Some foreign national loan programs will assign a 680 credit score to the loan since foreign credit won't be considered for this loan program. 

    2. Loan to value ratio: The higher the loan to value ratio (LTV) is, pricing takes a hit. So your pricing will be higher for a 80% LTV loan than for a 60% LTV loan.

    3. Prepayment penalties- usually 1-5 year terms. The shorter the prepayment term has an impact on increasing the rate.

    4. Are you cash flowing the property? More on how that is calculated below. Is your DSCR ratio greater than 1-meaning are you cash flowing (according to the lender's criteria of mortgage, property taxes and insurance (and HOA) if applicable). Many lenders will not do a DSCR loan unless cash flowing. If they will do a loan with less than 1, the pricing takes a hit. This criteria is for 1-4 and 5-8 unit programs.

    I've included an example below to help illustrate this.

    So different lenders have different rates (which do vary even for DSCR loans) but these are factors they all consider.

    See example below:

    DSCR < 1

    Principal + Interest = $1,700

    Taxes = $350, Insurance = $100, Association Dues = $50

    Total PITIA = $2200

    Rent = $2000

    DSCR = Rent/PITIA = 2000/2200 = 0.91

    Since the DSCR is 0.91, we know the expenses are greater than the income of the property.

    DSCR >1

    Principal + Interest = $1,500

    Taxes = $250, Insurance = $100, Association Dues = $25

    Total PITIA = $1875 Rent = $2300

    DSCR = Rent/PITIA = 2300/1875 = 1.23

    If a purchase, you also generally need reserves / savings to show you have 3-6 month payments of PITIA (principal / interest (mortgage payment), property taxes and insurance and HOA (if applicable). If a cash out refinance, many lenders will allow the cash out to satisfy the reserves requirement.

    DSCR lenders generally let you vest either individually or as a U.S. LLC. It's a great way to increase your net worth and these loans can also be used to pull cash out of a property as it appreciates allowing you to reinvest money into new deals.

    Happy to discuss further. 

    Stacy, thanks for that detailed reply. I have seen DSCR loan information on some pages. The part about 'foreign national loan' companies assigning a credit score was a piece of the puzzle I was missing. 
    0Reply
  • Stacy RaskinBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 500 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Nicolussi:
    Quote from @Stacy Raskin:

    There are DSCR rental property loans for foreign nationals (non-U.S. citizens who don't live in the U.S) that are 25% down for a single family rental property and 30% down for a 2-4 unit property. Minimum loan amount is $100,000. The loan options vary by state. U.S. credit is not necessary as the loan will be assigned a 680 credit score.

    More info on DSCR loans in general: DSCR loans won't use your income to underwrite the loan.

    DSCR loans are based off of down payment, credit score and either actual or market rents so it helps to supercharge an investor's real estate goals and net worth.

    Here's a bit more in detail about how rates are calculated for DSCR loans:

    1. Credit score- the higher the best. 760-780+ generally gets best pricing for investment property loans with most lenders. From there every 20 point increment affect pricing differently. So for example, a 761 credit score will be in the 760-779 credit category, then going down to 740-759 and so on.

    Some foreign national loan programs will assign a 680 credit score to the loan since foreign credit won't be considered for this loan program. 

    2. Loan to value ratio: The higher the loan to value ratio (LTV) is, pricing takes a hit. So your pricing will be higher for a 80% LTV loan than for a 60% LTV loan.

    3. Prepayment penalties- usually 1-5 year terms. The shorter the prepayment term has an impact on increasing the rate.

    4. Are you cash flowing the property? More on how that is calculated below. Is your DSCR ratio greater than 1-meaning are you cash flowing (according to the lender's criteria of mortgage, property taxes and insurance (and HOA) if applicable). Many lenders will not do a DSCR loan unless cash flowing. If they will do a loan with less than 1, the pricing takes a hit. This criteria is for 1-4 and 5-8 unit programs.

    I've included an example below to help illustrate this.

    So different lenders have different rates (which do vary even for DSCR loans) but these are factors they all consider.

    See example below:

    DSCR < 1

    Principal + Interest = $1,700

    Taxes = $350, Insurance = $100, Association Dues = $50

    Total PITIA = $2200

    Rent = $2000

    DSCR = Rent/PITIA = 2000/2200 = 0.91

    Since the DSCR is 0.91, we know the expenses are greater than the income of the property.

    DSCR >1

    Principal + Interest = $1,500

    Taxes = $250, Insurance = $100, Association Dues = $25

    Total PITIA = $1875 Rent = $2300

    DSCR = Rent/PITIA = 2300/1875 = 1.23

    If a purchase, you also generally need reserves / savings to show you have 3-6 month payments of PITIA (principal / interest (mortgage payment), property taxes and insurance and HOA (if applicable). If a cash out refinance, many lenders will allow the cash out to satisfy the reserves requirement.

    DSCR lenders generally let you vest either individually or as a U.S. LLC. It's a great way to increase your net worth and these loans can also be used to pull cash out of a property as it appreciates allowing you to reinvest money into new deals.

    Happy to discuss further. 

    Stacy, thanks for that detailed reply. I have seen DSCR loan information on some pages. The part about 'foreign national loan' companies assigning a credit score was a piece of the puzzle I was missing. 

     Sure- you're welcome. There are less foreign national programs but I know of at least one foreign national program that structures the loan this way. 

    [email protected]818-770-0340
    Bright Skyline518 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free