All Forum Posts by: Michael Smythe

We do this all the time for our clients (we only do Detroit Metro market).

Worse-case: you continue to handle the rehab, but get the PMC's input on your scope of work (SOW) and have the PMC verify the work (with videos) before you make final payment to a contractor.

If the co-living concept was really worthwhile, it'd be more popular!

Traditionally, it's been used for Class C properties. Last year we were approached by an investor moving out of state with 7 of them. All were Class C and investor told us of his weekly visits to his properties to keep them running well - yet the investor only wanted to pay us 10% management fee to do the same weekly visits!

Padsplit has tried to bring the concept to Class A properties, with limited success and a lot of challenges. They are NOT nationwide because it doesn't work everywhere. 

Your client would have been better off converting them to MTRs if the locations could support that approach. If not, then the location is at best Class B.

Also have your client find a good PMC to run these (may be difficult to find one!) and they would be more attractive to a buyer who could then purchase with management in place.

@Laurence Fru here's our standard copy & paste info about OOS investing:

Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location/neighborhoods to invest in.

Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?

Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.

The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.

Both Property Class and Tenant Class affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies will work on a property.

If you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will rent it?

Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?

So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met and it may even be a financial disaster.

We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:

• Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
• Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
• Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”

Key metrics for each Property Class:

Class A Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.

Class B Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
Tenant Default: 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Vacancies: 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.

Class C Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.

Class D Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.

Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.

Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?

Check out this chart:

Source: Fair Isaac Company

Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.

We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!

DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!

@Michael K Gallagher how many more have you bought?

@Reggie Smith

Recommend exploring as many sources as possible to get referrals AND cross-reference them to get as much accurate information as possible.

Check out NARPM.com, BP’s Property Manager Finder (BiggerPockets: The Real Estate Investing Social Network), etc.

Also, encourage you to learn from the mistakes of others - by reading posts here on BiggerPockets about owners not having their expectations met by their current Property Management Company.

To avoid going through the same poor experience, keep reading.

Even if someone gives you a referral here, do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the PMC will meet your expectations, just because they met the expectations of the referral source.

In our experience, the #1 mistake owners make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

Owners mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator – so, they often select the first PMC they call or that calls them back!

So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

EXAMPLE: PMC states they will handle tenant screening – what does that specifically mean? What documents do they require, what credit scores do they allow, how do they verify previous rental history, etc.? You’d be shocked by how little actual screening many PMC’s do!

This also leads owners to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

A well written management contract should clearly spell out what is expected of both the PMC and the owner, to PROTECT both and avoid misunderstandings. Why do you think purchase contracts are so long and have such small print?

We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91878-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-2-communication-and-docum

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91879-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-3-the-management-contr

What specifically has your PMC verified?

1) Proof of lawsuit lost?
Easy claim to make with no proof!

2) Owned a home with ex-wife?
Was it owned free & clear?
Public record check should verify ownership and any mortgage!

3) Ex-wife?
Is he paying any child support or alimony?
If so, how are they being accounted for in the traditional, "income = 3 x rent?

4) Income looks solid?
What does that mean?
2-year work history verified?
What is average monthly income based upon YTD paystub?
How does that average compare to 2024 W-2 monthly average?

4) What is Debt-To-Income Ratio (DTI)?
Income = 3x rent does NOT truly factor in what a tenant can afford:(
DTI is MUCH more comprehensive!

5) How many active tradelines are on the credit report?
How many at least 12 months of history reported?
How many at least 24 months of history reported?
Many tenants are getting Chime & Kickoff accounts that skew FICO scores:(

Check with RPOA organization

How do you scale this?

@Ryan Ramola here comes the Columbus rah-rah parade!

Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location/neighborhoods to invest in.

Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?

Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.

The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.

Both Property Class and Tenant Class affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies will work on a property.

If you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will rent it?

Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?

So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met and it may even be a financial disaster.

We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:

• Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
• Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
• Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”

Key metrics for each Property Class:

Class A Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.

Class B Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
Tenant Default: 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Vacancies: 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.

Class C Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.

Class D Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.

Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.

Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?

Check out this chart:

Source: Fair Isaac Company

Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.

We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!

DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!

@Amy Alexander

Recommend exploring as many sources as possible to get referrals AND cross-reference them to get as much accurate information as possible.

Check out NARPM.com, BP’s Property Manager Finder (BiggerPockets: The Real Estate Investing Social Network), etc.

Also, encourage you to learn from the mistakes of others - by reading posts here on BiggerPockets about owners not having their expectations met by their current Property Management Company.

To avoid going through the same poor experience, keep reading.

Even if someone gives you a referral here, do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the PMC will meet your expectations, just because they met the expectations of the referral source.

In our experience, the #1 mistake owners make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

Owners mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator – so, they often select the first PMC they call or that calls them back!

So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

EXAMPLE: PMC states they will handle tenant screening – what does that specifically mean? What documents do they require, what credit scores do they allow, how do they verify previous rental history, etc.? You’d be shocked by how little actual screening many PMC’s do!

This also leads owners to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

A well written management contract should clearly spell out what is expected of both the PMC and the owner, to PROTECT both and avoid misunderstandings. Why do you think purchase contracts are so long and have such small print?

We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91878-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-2-communication-and-docum

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91879-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-3-the-management-contr