Unsecured line of credit - follow up

Unsecured line of credit - follow up

Spokane, WA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 17 votes

A week or so ago, I posted about my financial situation and asked a slew of questions. I thought it might make sense to follow up after visiting the bank.

In the last post, I mentioned that Episode 239 gave me the idea of using an unsecured line of credit (or multiple lines) to get started in real estate investing. I went to a couple of local banks in Eastern Washington this week, but was disappointed by the conversations I had (though not detered!).

The largest line of credit for which I qualified, according to the bank was $15k, which is about 20% of one of the two credit cards I have. While I didn't expect to qualify for $75k I requested (anchor the negotiation to a big number....right?), I thought half of that was reasonable. Apparently income is far less important than liquidity and stability. Working for startups and living around the world for the past couple of years makes me appear risky, it seems.

This seems to confirm my suspicion that there are four ways to get started:
1) traditional finanacing (20% down)
2) hard money (10-20% down and expensive)
3) cash (if you have it)
4) owner financing (if you get really lucky)

This leads to my question. Are there options that I'm missing? Are there creative (and realistic) options that I'm not considering as I think about how to get going?

-Taft

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Investor · Deridder, LA · Member since 2014 · 298 posts · 185 votes
8y

@Taft Love

I don't have all of your information as far as what you have to work with, so I'll just explain what we have done and are looking to do in the future.

My partner and I had some cash to start and decided to partner on a single deal and see how that worked out.

Our First Deal

We purchased a 2/1 on a double lot in town for 20k using his cash and I put up the 20k required for renovation.  We had no idea what we were getting into at the time.  On day 1 of renovation (Demo) our contractor called us to inform us that there was significant termite damage on the rear of the property where one corner was touching the ground.

Lesson number 1 - Termite inspection went on the checklist for future purchases.

So we agreed to have the property treated and complete demo to see the extent of the damage.  Upon completion of demo our contractor calls again...  He threw a bombshell in our lap that 90% of the structure was ate up with termites and basically the only thing holding the place together was the termites holding hands.  The renovation was going to cost around 40k instead of the estimated 20k.

Neither of us had 20k liquid to  tap into, so we started talking to banks to see what we could find.  We ended up finding a loan at a local portfolio lender that was a construction loan.  They would lend the 40k required on a draw type setup and roll into a permanent mortgage once the project was complete.  The numbers seemed to work out so we proceeded.

We ended up having to build temporary walls to hold up the roof structure, being that it was the only thing left that hadn't been reached by the termites...  and then re-building the entire house under neath.

Lesson number 2 - in hindsight we should have dozed the house and started fresh with a larger new house.

However we learned alot about the process, construction, changing direction when things go wrong, being flexible and rolling with the punches.

We ended up with a nice place that we paid almost 100% of the appraisal price for, but we only owe 40k and it cash flows well.  We didn't really make money but the education we got was priceless.

Before we rolled the construction loan into a permanent one we contacted a few more banks using referrals from some of the guys at the local REIA. One of them gave us a contact of their Loan officer which happens to be another investor. The loan officer asked us if we had any other collateral to put up and if so he could get us a Secured Commercial Line of Credit, which is what we really needed. Luckily my partner had a free and clear property and we ended up using that to secure the line of credit.

We have since used that Line of Credit to Buy, Renovate, Rent and Refinance 2 other properties that ended up being no money out of pocket and they are both cash flowing nicely.

You see, you will need to network with your peers in your area and find out how they are doing it, and emulate the same.  They may even share their contacts.

One issue we have been having is the hold time... Our LOC is only large enough to do 1 Purchase and Rehab per year and then we hold the property until we can refinance using the appraisal price instead of the Purchase/Renovation cost. This ties up our funds and doesn't allow for quicker growth.

We have been looking into using private funds for the purchase / rehab phase to allow for multiple deals a year.   We ran across a Lending Tree like site for private lenders where they evaluate your deal and bid for your business.  I have yet to use them but, it looks like it would be a good fit.  Here is the link.  http://cix.connectedinvestors.com/

I'm in no way affiliated with them other than being a member on their site for networking.

Going forward, we will be looking at doing 2 deals a year for a slow and steady growth rate until we get to 10 or 15 deals.  Then our first deal will be completely paid off and each consecutive one will start paying off each year thereafter.

Lots of information here, but mainly you will need to network and be flexible and see if what is being offered can be used to complete your goal.  Sometimes it's not exactly what your looking for or its what you need but just don't know it, as it was in our case.

Hope this helps,

Jeff V

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  • Spokane, WA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 17 votes
    8y

    @Patrick Young This is an interesting point. I thought about trying it a few weeks ago when a local wholesaler mentioned that they have LLCs that they wrap houses in for certain types of buyers. I wonder if it makes sense to talk to the about buying one with a few years of seasoning.

    In talking to the bank, it sounds like I would need to be a guarantor on any LOC or loan that I took out in the company's name. But I wonder if having a company makes it easier to access larger amounts of cash.

    Thanks for the info!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    Taft unsecured LOC's boil down to one thing.. and that is your personal financial standing..

    balance sheet

    Experince

    cash on hand.

    nothing more nothing less..  Vesting of assets will in no way get you an unsecured loan just because you vested it in a certain way .. these are people to people loans remember that

    unless your General Motors ...

  • Plainfield, IL · Member since 2015 · 111 posts · 17 votes
    8y
    great discussion and advice just wanted to say Merry Christmas!
  • Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

     No, your card will periodically send access checks with a promotional rate.  At least we get them all the time.  They can be anything from a low interest rate like 2.99% until the balance is paid to 0% interest for 18 months.  So, look out for those.

    Alternatively, you could call your credit card company and ask about promotional offers for access checks on your account.  Sometimes we have received them that way.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Cara Lonsdale  many times when you switch cards they will have a teaser rate.. but usually want some balance switched over.. I think this is fine for those with UBER personal finance skills.. I cringe when I think of so many thinking they will use this to start in Flipping etc.. easy way to end up massively in debt.

    if you don't get them paid off your at the 24% and you know where that leads to never ending debt.. also if you max out your cards to get cash your DTI now sucks and you can't get any other kind of loan.

    I see this play for those who have far more cash in the bank or savings than what hey would rip off the card and could pay the card off anytime.. along with you don't need to be a buy and hold loan or a new home loan..

  • Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Cara Lonsdale  many times when you switch cards they will have a teaser rate.. but usually want some balance switched over.. I think this is fine for those with UBER personal finance skills.. I cringe when I think of so many thinking they will use this to start in Flipping etc.. easy way to end up massively in debt.

    if you don't get them paid off your at the 24% and you know where that leads to never ending debt.. also if you max out your cards to get cash your DTI now sucks and you can't get any other kind of loan.

    I see this play for those who have far more cash in the bank or savings than what hey would rip off the card and could pay the card off anytime.. along with you don't need to be a buy and hold loan or a new home loan..

     This is not always the case Jay.  My husband and I get these all the time on our existing cards.  They are checks with a promotional interest rate or terms, and can be written to any business, not just credit cards.  I agree that any type of credit source that isn't managed properly can put someone in to a debt nightmare.  The same could be said about hard money loans vs regular loans (Think loan shark).  

    Equally, any debt source can be a tool, or a resource if used properly.  For flippers, 18 months is a long time!  So, to have an 18 month term with 0% interest or even a 2.99% interest rate, that is a tool in your arsenal worth considering.

    My husband once used one to purchase the lease residual on his car that was on a lease coming to an end.  He had a 2.99% promotional access check for the life of the loan on one of his Chase Bank credit cards.  This was GREAT because it was for the life of the loan, and his payments were practically nothing!  

    Leveraging OPM is the name of this game.  If you can manage your debt, this provides just one more option for a temporary funding source similar to a hard money loan, only with better terms.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Cara Lonsdale Major difference in credit card debt and HML debt is one reports to FICO and the other does not.. but anyway.. like I said if you have income and can handle it.. were it falls down is those who have credit but no real savings to pay it off if needed..

    you know credit card companies they send out credit cards to virtually anyone these days.

  • Real Estate Investor · Springfield, VA · Member since 2014 · 41 posts · 17 votes
    8y
    Jay Hinrichs However if it is a business credit card it does not report to your personal DTI and credit score so won’t affect future mortgage applications. That’s the big sell on this method for me.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Patrick Young I can see that as someone with 7 to 10 mil in commercial credit none of that is on my fico or DTI if so I would never be able to borrow a nickel LOL

  • Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Patrick Young:

    Jay Hinrichs However if it is a business credit card it does not report to your personal DTI and credit score so won't affect future mortgage applications. That's the big sell on this method for me.

     Exactly.... and to your statement earlier about timing of receiving such offers, you can call the credit card company and request one, and many times they will send them to you right away, or make them available online in your account.  We have accessed them both ways, in addition to just receiving them in the mail every month (although some months are better offers than others, so you just have to evaluate them when you get them for the rate, promotional period, AND the fees attached (anywhere from 0-5%).

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