What I wish Pace Morby would have told me

What I wish Pace Morby would have told me

Rental Property Investor · Accokeek, MD · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 87 votes

Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

How things started:

  • 30 day close
  • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
  • $50,000 rehab costs
  • Interest rate: 3.125%

When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

But guess what we closed!!

How things ended:

  • 30 day close
  • $23,000 in closing costs
  • $50,000 rehab costs
  • Interest rate: 3.125%

Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

  • Purchase price: $246,000
  • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
  • ARV: $380,000
  • Rehab costs: $50,000
  • All-in costs: $73,000
  • Gross rent: $2600/month
  • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
  • ROI: 18.90%

Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

Your real estate friend,

Zack McDonough

28Reply
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Most Popular Reply

Wholesaler · Arnold, MO · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 183 votes
3y

This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.

See this reply in the discussion

71 Replies

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  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Michael Evans:

    The agent commissions and the closing costs that are negotiated, come from the SELLERS proceeds and become part of the purchase price. As a SubTo student who has been through quite a bit of the training, I have never heard anyone suggest to pay over listing price.

    Your comment: "As a SubTo student who has been through quite a bit of the training, I have never heard anyone suggest to pay over listing price."


     Pace Morby says 30 minutes in at www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDoRITXplC8

    And he says that often in his videos.

    Very foolish gamble.
  • Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 280 posts · 187 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Konipol:

    It’s AMAZING the nonsensical stuff that gurus come up with.  They take some technique or strategy that’s only workable or beneficial in a very tiny percentage of situations and generalize it as a major breakthrough.  Further, they retread strategies and techniques proven ineffectual or even dangerous in many economic climates, and tell their followers how they’ve perfected the strategy and made “millions” utilizing it.  Oh yeah, they don’t need the money from mentoring, they’re “giving back”.  
    I guess my greatest beef with most gurus (not all, some are actually honest and straightforward, and even offer marginally beneficial advice) is the following

    1- they’re dishonest in numerous ways

    2- completing their training in no way qualifies the student to earn money or even perform competently in real property field

    3- the techniques they teach are often harmful to the people their students deal with

    4- they unleash a horde of unprepared, unqualified, unknowledgeable, misguided and unaware newbies on an unsuspecting pool of desperate homeowners

    5- they sell the song that all formal education is a waste of time and money

    6- they never provide any audited proof that they have been successful in real estate investing
    7- they encourage people to pay for a mentorship plan they can’t afford by increasing the limit on their credit cards

    8- they create falsified accounts to post how great their program is

    9- their programs are packaged by professional seminar companies out of Provo, Utah or Las Vegas, Nevada

    10- they disparage people who have spent years accumulating the knowledge, experience and capital necessary to be successful in real estate

    11- SOME gurus teach techniques which are unethical, immoral and even illegal. 

    I await someone with 2 previous posts to tell me that I obviously don’t know what I’m talking about…


     This post should be pinned! 100%!

  • General Contractor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 79 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Michael Evans:

    The agent commissions and the closing costs that are negotiated, come from the SELLERS proceeds and become part of the purchase price. As a SubTo student who has been through quite a bit of the training, I have never heard anyone suggest to pay over listing price.

    Your comment: "As a SubTo student who has been through quite a bit of the training, I have never heard anyone suggest to pay over listing price."


     Pace Morby says 30 minutes in at www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDoRITXplC8

    And he says that often in his videos.

    Very foolish gamble.
    It’s because of the terms he’s getting, maybe zero interest on the equity, amortized over long term, etc 
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Michael Evans:

    The agent commissions and the closing costs that are negotiated, come from the SELLERS proceeds and become part of the purchase price. As a SubTo student who has been through quite a bit of the training, I have never heard anyone suggest to pay over listing price.

    Your comment: "As a SubTo student who has been through quite a bit of the training, I have never heard anyone suggest to pay over listing price."


     Pace Morby says 30 minutes in at www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDoRITXplC8

    And he says that often in his videos.

    Very foolish gamble.

    in all the years we have been doing sub too since the late 70s  we Never Ever bought a property that did not have enough equity that we could not sell and make a profit on from day one.  U need equity in case your forced to sell so you dont have to write a check to sell.. real estate is about making equity and spendable cash not just acquiring over leveraged properties unless your such a high earner that you doing it simply for the deprecation benefits.
  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 738 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Nate Marshall:

    Banks are becoming aware of Pace and sub  to investing strategy. They will use their lobbyists and power to shut him down. 


     Nate the banks dont have to shut anyone down on sub too they simply invoke their rights under the Aleination clause  thats all they have to do and its a unilateral right the lender has as long as that clause is in the deed of trust or mortgage .. and virtually 99% have the clause. 


     It is important to let them know about Pace and his Hamas like organization. Most Gators are incels living in their parents basement watching PornHub 24/7. FACT!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nate Marshall:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Nate Marshall:

    Banks are becoming aware of Pace and sub  to investing strategy. They will use their lobbyists and power to shut him down. 


     Nate the banks dont have to shut anyone down on sub too they simply invoke their rights under the Aleination clause  thats all they have to do and its a unilateral right the lender has as long as that clause is in the deed of trust or mortgage .. and virtually 99% have the clause. 


     It is important to let them know about Pace and his Hamas like organization. Most Gators are incels living in their parents basement watching PornHub 24/7. FACT!


     FTC and State AG's go after these guru's over time. If folks who are paying for his program start to complain in a big way then action will happen.. If there are not complaints from his Tribe then not much will happen I bet on the regulatory side of things.  Subto is not novel. It was/is a arrow in 0ne's quiver and you will have a lot of heartbreak from those that dont have the capacity financially to be doing these deals as described.. Mainly heartbreak will come from sellers who find themselves with ruined credit and their asset in foreclosure.. If those folks start complaining you could see some regulatory action

  • Levi KleinPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Arlington/Marysville, WA · Member since 2015 · 27 posts · 39 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


     Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


    Zachary-This is no doubt a creative way for a good deal. However the other members are correct in stating this is an assumption of a loan and not a subject-to existing financing purchase. A subto doesn't involve you being underwritten by a bank and can be completed in as little as a few days. the loan stays in the sellers name and the DOT(deed of trust/receipt for property) goes in your name. Seller still has the loan, you make their payments, the house is owned by you the debt is owned by seller.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Levi Klein:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


     Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


    Zachary-This is no doubt a creative way for a good deal. However the other members are correct in stating this is an assumption of a loan and not a subject-to existing financing purchase. A subto doesn't involve you being underwritten by a bank and can be completed in as little as a few days. the loan stays in the sellers name and the DOT(deed of trust/receipt for property) goes in your name. Seller still has the loan, you make their payments, the house is owned by you the debt is owned by seller.


     not the deed of trust it stays in the sellers name.. the grant deed or warrenty deed or what kind of deed transfers title goes to the new buyer.. Deed of trust is the existing mortgage debt instrument for lack of better words. 

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

     Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum? 

     Not to my knowledge

    Your qestion: "Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum?"

    I've seen one post and he says he had 4 Due on Sale called this month.

    For those of you who don't know what that is, I cover the Due on Sale Clause at

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1149243-due-...

    And if you want more detail, you can find it at the link below

  • Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
    2y

    Interesting thread.learning never stops..

  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 738 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

     Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum? 

     Not to my knowledge

    Your qestion: "Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum?"

    I've seen one post and he says he had 4 Due on Sale called this month.

    For those of you who don't know what that is, I cover the Due on Sale Clause at

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1149243-due-...

    And if you want more detail, you can find it at the link below


     Yep. Banks need to do more of these. Put a hurt on the subto gurus! 

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nate Marshall: Quote from @Jay Hinrichs: Quote from @Levi Klein: Quote from @Vince Mayer:
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

     Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum? 

     Not to my knowledge

    Your qestion: "Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum?"

    I've seen one post and he says he had 4 Due on Sale called this month.

    For those of you who don't know what that is, I cover the Due on Sale Clause at

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1149243-due-...

    And if you want more detail, you can find it at the link below


     Yep. Banks need to do more of these. Put a hurt on the subto gurus! 

    A student of mine who, who has done very well buying Subject To, safely & wisely, forwarded the following email to me which he just received.

    The first thing I noticed is that Everything is FREE.

    FREE Properties, FREE Money, FREE Training, Thee are no Risks and there are no consequences.

    Who Wouldn’t Fall For That?

    Trouble is, it’s half truths. There are a lot of risks, there are consequences and it isn’t Free. It’s an introductory that gets you hyped up to spend $10,000 to join a community. There is no “one on one” training in the “community”

    To : ​xxxxxxxxxx @ xxxxxxxxxxxxx Com​     Sat 11/11/2023 8:18 AM

    **

    Hey,

    I do a lot of deals.

    In fact there are a lot of deals done in my name by my team that I know very little about.

    But here’s the common thing about ALL of those deals.

    It’s this:

    I care very little about the purchase price!

    Yup.

    It doesn’t matter.

    Why?

    Because I buy houses on Subto.

    The only thing I am really interested in is the mortgage payment I’m taking over.

    That’s why it’s called “Subject to existing financing”.

    If I can cover that with rental payments from the tenants I put in the property…

    …and I ALWAYS do.

    It’s effectively free money.

    So I get to own a property without using any of my own money.

    AND…

    …there’s no credit checks, no credentials needed, no tax returns to submit and no checking of my bank statements.

    It’s the dirty little secret behind why my property portfolio is growing as fast as it is.

    Because I can do deals like that all day long.

    Here’s what that means…

    I have a ton of properties that are appreciating in value…

    ….that cost me ZERO dollars of my own.

    I have to pinch myself sometimes that it’s this good.

    And the icing on the cake…?

    I get cash flow from them too.

    I’m telling you this for one reason:

    You can do this too when you know how.

    Just follow this link and all will be revealed in a free training.

    >>>Click here for your free Subto training.

    I’m just surprised more people don’t do this.

    - Pace

    For those of you who made it this far, to see SOME of the risks and why this approach is so dangerous see

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1060320-using-subject-to-to-get-free-properties-a-quick-guideline

  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 738 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Nate Marshall: Quote from @Jay Hinrichs: Quote from @Levi Klein: Quote from @Vince Mayer:
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Scott Gaspar:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

     Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum? 

     Not to my knowledge

    Your qestion: "Probably a dumb question but does anyone know of Pace posts on the forum?"

    I've seen one post and he says he had 4 Due on Sale called this month.

    For those of you who don't know what that is, I cover the Due on Sale Clause at

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1149243-due-...

    And if you want more detail, you can find it at the link below


     Yep. Banks need to do more of these. Put a hurt on the subto gurus! 

    A student of mine who, who has done very well buying Subject To, safely & wisely, forwarded the following email to me which he just received.

    The first thing I noticed is that Everything is FREE.

    FREE Properties, FREE Money, FREE Training, Thee are no Risks and there are no consequences.

    Who Wouldn’t Fall For That?

    Trouble is, it’s half truths. There are a lot of risks, there are consequences and it isn’t Free. It’s an introductory that gets you hyped up to spend $10,000 to join a community. There is no “one on one” training in the “community”

    To : ​xxxxxxxxxx @ xxxxxxxxxxxxx Com​     Sat 11/11/2023 8:18 AM

    **

    Hey,

    I do a lot of deals.

    In fact there are a lot of deals done in my name by my team that I know very little about.

    But here’s the common thing about ALL of those deals.

    It’s this:

    I care very little about the purchase price!

    Yup.

    It doesn’t matter.

    Why?

    Because I buy houses on Subto.

    The only thing I am really interested in is the mortgage payment I’m taking over.

    That’s why it’s called “Subject to existing financing”.

    If I can cover that with rental payments from the tenants I put in the property…

    …and I ALWAYS do.

    It’s effectively free money.

    So I get to own a property without using any of my own money.

    AND…

    …there’s no credit checks, no credentials needed, no tax returns to submit and no checking of my bank statements.

    It’s the dirty little secret behind why my property portfolio is growing as fast as it is.

    Because I can do deals like that all day long.

    Here’s what that means…

    I have a ton of properties that are appreciating in value…

    ….that cost me ZERO dollars of my own.

    I have to pinch myself sometimes that it’s this good.

    And the icing on the cake…?

    I get cash flow from them too.

    I’m telling you this for one reason:

    You can do this too when you know how.

    Just follow this link and all will be revealed in a free training.

    >>>Click here for your free Subto training.

    I’m just surprised more people don’t do this.

    - Pace

    For those of you who made it this far, to see SOME of the risks and why this approach is so dangerous see

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1060320-using-subject-to-to-get-free-properties-a-quick-guideline


     Pace would make a great recruiter for Hamas! He caters to those kind of losers!

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    2y

    I honestly don’t think of the people falling for the guru lines as losers - more like very naive and unfamiliar with business in general and real estate industry in particular.  They want to take some action to accumulate capital, wealth, etc.  but are on the wrong track, often close to clueless on how to proceed.  I really believe that large responsibility for how unknowledgeable so large a segment of the population is concerning economics and business is a failure of our educational system.   

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 738 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Konipol:

    I honestly don’t think of the people falling for the guru lines as losers - more like very naive and unfamiliar with business in general and real estate industry in particular.  They want to take some action to accumulate capital, wealth, etc.  but are on the wrong track, often close to clueless on how to proceed.  I really believe that large responsibility for how unknowledgeable so large a segment of the population is concerning economics and business is a failure of our educational system.   


     The people he recruits are losers! Porn Hub addicted incels. 

  • Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    The veteran still has time today 1/2024 to cure the modification, and take the property back. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Konipol:

    I honestly don’t think of the people falling for the guru lines as losers - more like very naive and unfamiliar with business in general and real estate industry in particular.  They want to take some action to accumulate capital, wealth, etc.  but are on the wrong track, often close to clueless on how to proceed.  I really believe that large responsibility for how unknowledgeable so large a segment of the population is concerning economics and business is a failure of our educational system.   


    its really just the modern version OF MLM back in our days Don :)
  • Real Estate Agent · Kailua-Kona, HI · Member since 2022 · 61 posts · 15 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Michael Evans:
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:
    Quote from @Vince Mayer:

    This is not a sub 2 deal. This is a VA assumption.


     Explain how they are different. I must be ignorant. Because upon talking with Pace Morby students, I was under the impression that it is a form of sub to.


    WOW, you could have save a lot of time and headaches, not to mention lost sleep if you had followed Pace's methods. You did not even need to talked to the bank. The seller should have been able to provide the mortgage information ie: latest statements and property tax bills (I would have wanted to look at at leasts the last 6 months). Then got all the utility bills and any other expense information together to make sure they are current and any contractors and vendors had been paid. The Title company and a GOOD transaction coordinator should handle the rest. My take...


    Definitely agree!  Having the right title company/closing attorney and TC wouldʻve definitely made the deal easier.  

  • Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Zachary McDonough:

    Creative financing is like thinking outside the box when it comes to buying or selling a house. It's all about finding alternative ways to structure the deal that works for both the buyer and the seller.

    One popular method is called "subject-to," or subto for short. Basically, it means that instead of getting a new loan, the buyer takes over the existing mortgage payments. They're still responsible for making those monthly payments, but they don't have to go through the whole process of getting a new loan. It can be super handy if someone can't qualify for a traditional mortgage or just wants to avoid all the hassle and fees.

    Another cool option is seller financing. Picture this: the seller becomes the lender! Instead of going to a bank, the buyer makes payments directly to the seller. It's like cutting out the middleman. This can be a win-win situation because the buyer gets some flexibility and the seller gets regular cash flow.

    You can see how our current interest rate market has made it tough to pencil out deals. So taking the creative approach can help ease the exit strategy, which (for me) is buy-n-holds. According to Google search engine, the average rates (as of 5/19/23) are 7.521%. So creative financing at a rate even 1% below the average can drastically affect your exit strategy. (FYI, an exit strategy is a fancy way of your plan for the property, like sell, rent, flip, etc)

    So when I started seeing all these videos from Pace Morby about how I could buy investment property at 2020 interest rates with no credit, no experience, and no money, I got excited!! However, I’ll give you a small spoiler alert, it didn’t pan out as I defined it in the beginning.

    How things started:

    • 30 day close
    • $6,000-$9,000 in expected closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    When we started this process, it was early December. In fact, it was 3 days prior to me having my shoulder reconstructed, which might be part of why this deal was stressful. The lender was Carrington Mortgage Services. One of the first things, I did was talk to the lender prior to signing the contract. Over the phone, I received approval to access the seller’s mortgage information (ie rates, loan term, etc) by the verbal approval of the seller. We asked several questions about how seamless the experience would be. They assured us that it would take more steps than normal but would result in about 30 days close.

    Once the seller and I talked a bit, we set out to close in 35 days…

    First rule: be more conservative if you can. Try to get better margins on your risks. Worried about losing money? Find reasons to ask the seller for a price decrease. Worried about not closing on time? Create a buffer.

    Well, anyways, as soon as we were assigned our loan officer. He laughed and said that there’d be no way we could close in 30 days but expected it to be worst case 60 days. So the seller agreed to the extension, because of limited options. So we proceeded on. As we approached 60 days, the bank very slowly asked for more paperwork after claiming several times that we were set. So it was clear to me, 60 days wasn’t going to happen.

    So we marched on. We were supposed to close on January 5th, but we extended it to late February. When late February wasn’t going to happen, we extended it to March 15th. The bank had a forbearance agreement with the seller, so we figured if we could close before the agreement expired (March), we’d successfully close this deal. Now, in case you don’t know, forbearance is basically a pause on mortgage payments. The bank allows you some time to catch up. This has become increasingly popular since COVID.

    As we entered March, the bank continued to fumble over what paperwork we needed. Between mid-February and mid-March, I emailed or called nearly once a day to our assigned loan processor/officer for updates. They would respond rarely but I could tell we were progressing but not at a rapid rate.

    Another lesson: I quickly learned that the banks had very little motivation in the assumption process. They clearly were not profiting off this transaction, which unfortunately gave me very little ability or leverage to make demands since they did NOT care at all. It’s clear to me that banks do not make much money in the maintenance of loans or buying loans in the secondary market (as Carrington Mortgage Services does), which leads me to question why anyone would want to run a business like that. But one of the three of YOU still reading this may be able to answer that. Regardless, let’s continue.

    When we were exiting the first week of March, I was hammering the lender, telling them that they were at risk of losing the transaction (an empty threat). I hammered on saying, “You need to produce the TRID CD.” For those interested, traditional lenders have to produce CD or closing disclosures 3 days before closing to allow buyers to review them for error. Trust me they are needed. I caught a ton of errors in their CD!

    Well, finally, we got a CD, which allowed us to close as soon as they sent the closing package to title. Well, they couldn’t produce that package until the day of closing, which wasn’t till 3/22. So yes, you guessed it!! We had to get the seller to sign another extension. So finally we reach the settlement day, title sent us the ALTA, and my jaw drops.

    The ALTA settlement sheet says the seller has to pay money. A lot of money. Like $1,200. So I talked to my title company, PR Title Group. (Btw, I highly recommend them. Whet and Tamra are fantastic. ) PR title says they inputted the closing numbers from the bank. Then, the bank claims that title is wrong. Well, surprise, surprise, the bank messed up yet again! The closing numbers were way higher than expected though! We had to bring her mortgage current. We also had to file a quit claim deed due to the way the deal had to be structured per VA assumption, according to the bank.

    But guess what we closed!!

    How things ended:

    • 30 day close
    • $23,000 in closing costs
    • $50,000 rehab costs
    • Interest rate: 3.125%

    Why would we want to close if the closing costs double? Can’t you see why not everyone would want to do this? It may sound easy but it’s not. It takes a lot of problem-solving. It takes immense faith in the process and your own ability.

    It’s not easy but it’s worth it. Here’s why we are okay with the new cost:

    • Purchase price: $246,000
    • Mortgage: $1450/mo (PITI included)
    • ARV: $380,000
    • Rehab costs: $50,000
    • All-in costs: $73,000
    • Gross rent: $2600/month
    • Gross cashflow: $1150/month
    • ROI: 18.90%

    Not bad in my opinion. Some of the value in this property is my experience. I learned so much about how these things worked. I stayed up late researching. I fought hard to make a deal work for the seller. We provided a great solution to a seller in need. Now, you may be asking, “Would you do it again?” And I would answer, “Heck yeah.”

    Expectations would be set and the deal would be a lot easier. Last lesson: In life, raising the bar for yourself starts with lowering the bar for everyone else. Be accountable, take ownership, and don’t expect it all to happen overnight.

    Your real estate friend,

    Zack McDonough

    So, is there any update?
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