Fund & Grow Case Study 2019 (A detailed and in-depth analysis)

Fund & Grow Case Study 2019 (A detailed and in-depth analysis)

Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes

Hello all!

After two months of thorough research, my wife and I decided to take the leap into using Fund & Grow to fund our first rental property investment. We decided to use Fund & Grow (F&G) over other similar companies like Midwest Corporate Credit (MCC) because F&G charges less for their services. We will pay a $3,500 upfront fee to get started with F&G which is cheap compared to the 10% fee that MCC would charge on the total amount of business credit that they obtained for you. For example, if MCC obtained $100,000 worth of business credit for you, the total fee would amount to $10,000 based on the 10% fee.

I was inspired by several other BiggerPocket users who have posted similar case studies, so I wanted to add more value by posting my own case study of F&G in an attempt to inform and inspire anyone else who reads this and is hesitant or just starting out. I will try to be as detailed as possible about all of my interactions with the company, and if all goes well, I will post a separate case study about my first investment property and the turnkey company that we decide to use. Let’s get started!

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December 31, 2018 - I signed up to get “pre-qualified” by F&G via Clayton Morris’ website, Morris Invest, so that I could get a $500 off coupon. I only went through the Morris Invest website to get this discount.

SIDENOTE: I personally would never use Morris Invest to buy investment properties because of the countless horror stories I’ve read about the company here on BiggerPockets and various YouTube videos. I will include a few below, but I implore you to do your own research. A simple “morris invest reviews” Google search will give you an abundance of information that will save you thousands, possibly tens of thousands of dollars in the long run.

Scary BiggerPockets Case Study About Morris Invest: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/392727-morris-invest-case-study-20

Another Scary BiggerPockets Case Study About Morris Invest: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/562268-turnkey-nightmare-with-morris-invest-indianapolis

Scary video of a Morris Invest property that was sold to an investor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0jXyRHrbYo

Another Scary video of a Morris Invest property that was sold to an investor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txQfbuEARA

BACK ON TOPIC: After signing up for the pre-qualification I received an automated email from F&G. The email said that one of their consultants would be reaching out to me shortly to get started, but if I wanted to I could call them using the number provided in the email. I wasted no time and dialed the number. Marty answered. He said that he was on the phone with someone else and asked if he could call me back to which I obliged.

He quickly called back within 2 minutes and began explaining to me in a nutshell what F&G could do for me. He immediately tried to sign me up for the program. I didn’t feel comfortable giving him my credit card so soon - the process seemed a little rushed. I told him I was going to give it a few days to talk it over with my spouse who also happens to be my partner in this (F&G allows you to do the program with a partner at no extra cost). He seemed content with that and sent me an email with some information and his personal line. I would like to add that Marty was very pleasant to speak with. Tomorrow is New Year’s Day, so I will have to wait until the following day to call him.

January 2, 2019 – Welcome to 2019 everyone! Around 11:25 am EST, Marty gave me a call, but I missed it, so he left a voicemail asking if I was ready to sign up for the program. I am ready, so I gave him a call back. After about 20 minutes of personable and enjoyable conversation, Marty got me signed up. The total after the $500 discount was $3,497. I am thrilled with my initial interaction with F&G, at least Marty, he was pleasant to speak with and optimistic about my journey. Of course, there is the inclination to be cynical and say that Marty was just being nice to get a sale to meet some quota, but my intuition expected otherwise.

Here are the key takeaways from today’s call:

  • F&G will start by building both me and my wife’s personal credit before getting us business credit to increase the amount of business credit we will be able to obtain. This will take approximately 6 months. My credit score is at a 706, and my wife is at a 690.
  • F&G will work with us for 18 months total. 6 months of personal credit building, then 12 months of business credit. We do not have to pay any additional costs for the extra 6 months, which is nice.
  • When working with F&G, you do have to sign a power of attorney form. If you aren’t familiar with what this is, it’s a written authorization to represent or act on another's behalf in private affairs, business, or some other legal matter. This may be a little unsettling for some. For me, I don’t mind doing this. You have to make that choice for yourself. They do give you the option with the click of a button to REVOKE the power of attorney at any point during the process if you want.

I received an email to register my account with F&G. Once I signed into the dashboard, there was a video that explains the next steps in the process. You can actually view the unlisted video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=77&v=P3siQvQttUQ

I scheduled my first call with my wife as an attendee for Friday, January 11 at 11:00 am EST which is about a week away. Looking forward to the initial call! I should note that F&G has a large influx of clientele, so you may have to wait upwards of 1-2 weeks before your initial consultation call. If I would have known this, I would have signed on to the program earlier. But now you know! Next update in a week after my first call.

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Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y

@Jay Hinrichs

It all smacks of something for nothing and if you just buy these little coupons, everything will change for you because Charlie P. knows the insider's rules to how the sausage is made. I'm not saying that's what it is, but it's certain what it presents itself as. This is not the first time I've listened to a guy named "Ari" tell me he could sell me a foolproof system for making me money, and every other time in that far-off land where "Ari" is a very common name it was not 2 Legit 2 Quit, no, no, no, filoi kai aderfia, not by a long shot.

In any case, the biggest problem, the bottleneck that keeps us from scaling up our ghetto BRRRRing quickly, isn't the cost of borrowed money to keep up with deal flow, it's the lack of affordable competent renovation tradesmen to plan, manage, and carry out the renovating. If I could find and hire those people more easily I could comfortably scale up with the 5.58% rates I'm getting from my bank for cash-out re-financing.

Every renovation outfit currently working in my area has exactly the same problem, and 0% interest on our financing isn't going to make a dent in that. if I want those dudes I'm going to have to train them and manage them.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    I tried updating my post from above, but it doesn't include the formatting, so I will just create new posts anytime I have an update.

    January 11, 2019 – My wife and I had our initial consultation call today. We spoke with Zac Ricci. The call lasted about 15 minutes, it was fairly straightforward. Zac talked to us about our goals and how F&G fit into the picture. He gave us a rundown on how long the process would take and the various steps along the way. As mentioned earlier in the month when speaking with Marty at F&G, we will first be doing some personal credit building, this is estimated to take about 6 months but will help us to obtain more business credit. The 6 extra months come at no additional costs.

    It is important to note that F&G requires you to have certain documents emailed to them such as; a valid driver’s license with your current address, social security card, and proof of your address. I am noting this because neither my wife or I had current addresses on our driver licenses, and I lost my social security card a long time ago.

    January 16, 2019 – I have been corresponding back and forth with Danyelle Roller, a Client Relations Specialist at F&G and an assistant to Zac Ricci, for about a week now regarding all of the needed documentation. We spent this past week going to the DMV to update our licenses and also ordering a new SS card for myself. Danyelle has been very responsive, and it has been a pleasure working with her so far.

    I am still waiting for my new SS card to arrive in the mail, this could take another week. However, Danyelle has informed me today that my wife’s application has been submitted to F&G’s Applications Department for final review. I assume that by next week at the latest they will have begun working on improving her personal credit.

  • Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Keep us posted!

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    It’s almost been a solid month since my last, time for an update!

    February 9, 2019 - My last post back on January 16 was me waiting to receive my social security replacement card from the social security administration. I received it and quickly sent it to F&G.

    Danyelle introduced me and my wife to Michael Richard who was my Account Specialist, the one in charge of building my personal credit. My personal credit round began on January 21. My wife’s round of personal credit started about 2 weeks after mine. On January 21, the day my personal round started, I immediately began receiving notifications from Credit Karma (I have the app on my phone) about several banks checking my credit score. This let me know that F&G had begun applying on my behalf. I received 6 new personal cards in total, I will list them out here plus the final limits that F&G was able to negotiate:

    Capital One Quicksilver - $2,000

    American Express Everyday - $6,000

    Wells Fargo Platinum Visa - $2,500

    Bank of the Ozarks - $7,000

    Chase Freedom Unlimited - $7,900

    SunTrust Cash Rewards - $8,5000

    So in total F&G obtained $33,900 in personal credit for me. My credit scores have already been rising as a result. This is exactly what needs to happen in order for us to receive even more business credit. When this process first began, I was sitting at a 706/704 credit score (TransUnion/Equifax), how I’m at a 726/725. I imagine it will easily get to 750+ in a month or two.

    Okay, now let’s talk about my wife’s personal credit round which didn’t turn out so well.

    Unfortunately, my wife did not have much established credit prior to this process, mainly because every purchase we made day-to-day was on my Citi card which is under my name and my credit. So even though her credit score is decent, sitting at about a 700, her round of personal credit was just completed a few days ago and the results weren’t pretty. Here is her list of credit cards with final limits:

    Citi Double Cash – DECLINED

    Capital One Quicksilver – DECLINED

    Wells Fargo Platinum Visa – DECLINED

    American Express Everyday – $1,000

    Bank of the Ozarks – DECLINED

    Flagstar – DECLINED

    I would like to reiterate an important fact that my wife has barely any established credit, and so this should not be a negative strike against F&G.

    However, we are a team, and since my personal credit round went so well, this benefits both of us regardless of how poorly her round went.

    So, what is next? When do the business credit rounds begin?

    This is the question you are probably wondering and it’s a question that I don’t have an answer to right now. I will reach out to Michael my Account Specialist this coming week to follow up with Courtney’s personal round and to see what the next steps are. I think that there will be a waiting period to allow my credit to increase a little before F&G begins applying for business credit, but I will keep you posted!

    Remember, message me if you have any questions, I’ll be more than glad to try and answer them!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    @Joshua Mayo

    Why are u doing this the second u use those cards your credit score will go down substantially

    For what purpose would u do this ?

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs  

    Hi Jay,

    I failed to mention this in my post above, but I do not plan to use the personal cards for business.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joshua Mayo:

    @Jay Hinrichs  

    Hi Jay,

    I failed to mention this in my post above, but I do not plan to use the personal cards for business.

     Ok why would u pay someone to put applications in for u.  U can do that all on line ???

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    The personal credit rounds are apart of the program for people (like myself) who don't have impressive personal credit. However, the crux of the program is the business credit rounds, and that's the part I'm willing to pay for. The way I see it, I can either roll up my sleeves and learn how to obtain a large amount of business credit for myself, or I can hire someone who has the expertise already. I would prefer the latter to try and maximize the results.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joshua Mayo:

    @Jay Hinrichs

    The personal credit rounds are apart of the program for people (like myself) who don't have impressive personal credit. However, the crux of the program is the business credit rounds, and that's the part I'm willing to pay for. The way I see it, I can either roll up my sleeves and learn how to obtain a large amount of business credit for myself, or I can hire someone who has the expertise already. I would prefer the latter to try and maximize the results.

     You had 700 coco that’s great.   But hope it works for u.  Sounds weird to me though

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    It will all play out in the impending months, I'll keep this topic updated with all the happenings and such. Thanks for bringing some activity to this thread Jay

  • Eric HeinenPro Member
    Fargo, ND · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    I'm very interested to see how this turns out for you.  Oh, can't your wife piggyback off your credit history if you make them an authorized user?  I've heard that's an easy way to jumpstart someone with little to no credit history.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    @Joshua Mayo

    Please keep posting. Enquiring minds want to know.

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    @Jim K.

    Agreed . I have been researching this myself and find this very interesting indeed

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Joshua Mayo during our year-long real estate paid education course that my wife and I started back in 2015, we went to an investor summit meeting in Las Vegas. At that summit they had a company that sounds very similar to the company that you are describing, only a little more expensive. They charged 5k per person to increase one’s credit limits and help them access business credit lines. 

    So what we did was we bought into it for my wife only and then we watched what it was that they did to increase her credit availability. Then I just copied what they did to increase my credit lines. 

    Honestly, it worked out really well for us. Ultimately, through learning and copying their process, we were able to increase our available credit from about 250-280k to over a million in a few years and we were eventually able to transfer a large portion our personal debt that we were using for business purposes over to business debt that did not effect my personal credit score any more. So the 5k that we spent on the process enabled us to scale our business dramatically and continues to benefit us today. I don’t know if there is really a number to say how much the 5k we spent has made us because it continues to make us more and more money every year but it is well over a few hundred thousand dollars so far.

    @Jay Hinrichs to speak to your question as to why hire a company to do what you can do yourself to increase your own personal and business lines of credit, the answer I think is, you don’t know what you don’t know. Navigating banking and credit card systems and knowing when to apply and the things to say to maximize credit lines is often not common knowledge for new investors. At least it wasn’t for us. So doing it this way shortened our learning curve and helped us scale a lot faster.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    @Shiloh Lundahl gothca.. was the Vegas event you went to the one at the pyramid  .. with the flipping Vegas reality stars as the main attraction..  did you have to pay to go to that event?

    I went to one as a guest and I am thinking it was the same year.. they had all sorts of different products for sale there.

    IRA set ups asset protection Lots in Lehigh FLA rental houses in Detroit etc etc.

    I guess I am just out of touch with this stuff so I was curious why anyone would do it and if it actually worked.

    So do you get business credit cards is that what you have.. ??  these are not unsecured LOCs with a commercial bank right ?

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs No,  this one was not on the strip. It was at Renaissance Las Vegas hotel in March 2016. It was included in the cost of our year-long training. We had the stars of Flip or Flop there along with a few other stars from some other shows too.

    The lines are personal credit cards and business credit cards as well as personal and business lines at banks. Some of the lines were secured and some were not secured. And several were at commercial banks. The good thing was as I transferred my debts to business lines my credit score went up and it was not negatively effected by my business debt.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @Jay Hinrichs No,  this one was not on the strip. It was at Renaissance Las Vegas hotel in March 2016. It was included in the cost of our year-long training. We had the stars of Flip or Flop there along with a few other stars from some other shows too.

    The lines are personal credit cards and business credit cards as well as personal and business lines at banks. Some of the lines were secured and some were not secured. And several were at commercial banks. The good thing was as I transferred my debts to business lines my credit score went up and it was not negatively effected by my business debt.

    gotcha.. I found having conventional  loans on my rentals that were reported to fico ( had 12 to 14 of them at one time) those really kept my fico down.. did not affect me in business but it did affect me trying to get the very best rate on my owner occ home / homes through the years .. now that I have sold all but one my credit shot up 100 points to high 700s  first time ever.. and well I don't need it now since I am aggressively paying off ALL my long term liabilities.  And fico is down the list at what my commercial banks look at for multi million dollar loans I get.. those are based on the 3 Cs  Character  Capacity Collateral   and of course experience and length of time with the institution.. now this is for my development and construction loans.. 

  • Banker · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2018 · 99 posts · 100 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs @Shiloh Lundahl is right. There are so many intricacies of navigating through different credit cards. Knowing which one you are most likely to get approved for, hidden terms and which one will give you a higher limit as well as how long you have to wait between applications. @Joshua Mayo You should ask your consultant about the benefits of adding your wife as an authorized user on the cards you are already approved for. It may look good for her.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    @Shiloh Lundahl @Jim K.  plus in low value asset land of the rust belt middle America I can see where this is a benefit you can literally buy a house on a credit card.. that I get.. then flip the sucker make 10k or so that is a good use for those. 

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Adeva Edobor

    It's a great idea, I'll ask him - this is also what @Eric Heinen suggested.

    Thanks for sharing your experience @Shiloh Lundahl very helpful!

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Joshua Mayo I have found that keeping credit cards in only one of your names rather than both can be a benefit in that if you are carrying a high balance on one person’s card it won’t effect the other’s credit score. And you can use the balance transfer checks that come to transfer debt from one card to another to increase the credit score for the one applying for the long term loans.

  • Denmark · Member since 2018 · 90 posts · 56 votes
    7y

    @Joshua Mayo

    I’m sorry but if this works it proves there is something really wrong with the credit score system.

    The scores should indicate to a potential lender how likely you are to pay your loan back and how is that more likely by getting more lines of credit available?

    It can turn into a vicious cycle if you borrow money to pay debt.

    Don’t get me wrong I understand why you are doing it and best of luck to you.

    Just seems like an unhealthy way for society to leverage credit imo.

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Niels Bjørn Toppenberg

    I agree with you Niels and it's something I do not fully understand. I guess lenders think that if you have more lines of credit, then you are more responsible because other banks are willing to give you credit? It almost sort of seems like a crowd mentality.

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @Joshua Mayo I have found that keeping credit cards in only one of your names rather than both can be a benefit in that if you are carrying a high balance on one person’s card it won’t effect the other’s credit score. And you can use the balance transfer checks that come to transfer debt from one card to another to increase the credit score for the one applying for the long term loans.

    I spoke with my wife about this today - we like this strategy and will likely roll with it. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Joshua Mayo,

    Something most folks don't consider is that credit scores get you DECLINED. If you come across any prospective creditor who approves based on score alone, please let the group know.

    Once you get past the score "gate keeper",  then the content of your credit profile comes into play. That is what will ultimately get you approved, if at all.

    As to the question of, "Can I do this myself?" The answer of course is yes, but that's not really the question you need to ask. The key question is, "SHOULD I do this myself?" Unless you're a credit expert, you'll want to think twice before taking it on personally. You can do yourself more harm than good unless you know what to do and why, versus what NOT to do and why not.

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:

    @Joshua Mayo,

    Something most folks don't consider is that credit scores get you DECLINED. If you come across any prospective creditor who approves based on score alone, please let the group know.

    Once you get past the score "gate keeper",  then the content of your credit profile comes into play. That is what will ultimately get you approved, if at all.

    As to the question of, "Can I do this myself?" The answer of course is yes, but that's not really the question you need to ask. The key question is, "SHOULD I do this myself?" Unless you're a credit expert, you'll want to think twice before taking it on personally. You can do yourself more harm than good unless you know what to do and why, versus what NOT to do and why not.

     This is great information, thanks David! 

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