Self-Directed Solo 401K Setup Question

Self-Directed Solo 401K Setup Question

Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes

Hello,

Pardon me if these topics have already been covered exhaustively but I'm having some trouble finding answers to my questions online. I already have a solo 401k that I set up years ago as a sole proprietor with an EIN number. I recently created an LLC for my business (taxed as a sole prop). If I wanted to set up a new self-directed Solo 401k plan, should I use the old EIN matching my other solo 401k plan or the new LLC EIN? (And what difference would it make?) Am I permitted to have multiple solo 401k plans, or would I be required to transfer my old plan into the new plan?

Also, I see an assortment of providers and fees out there but I am wondering, why can't someone just pay a fee to set all this up one time and self-manage the account thereafter?  It sounds like the only reporting requirement is if the account balance goes over 250K.  My CPA needs to file that form anyway.  What justification is there for the ongoing annual fees for the life of the plan?  (No offense to anyone out there, just asking...)  

My interest for setting up the self-direct solo 401k would be to make real estate investments, in case that has any bearing on the above questions. 

Thanks so much for any insight and feedback!  

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Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

@Greg K.

Good questions.You would need a separate EIN for the solo 401k. This is important when opening the solo 401k bank account as the bank will need to tie the solo 401k to its own EIN.

It is not always best to have multiple solo 401k plans as all the rules (i.e., contributions, loans, and 5500-ez reporting, for example) apply in aggregate.

The annual fee charged by most providers is primarily to process the solo 401k plan required updates, and the solo 401k plan document provider has to process those plan updates not the solo 401k owner. That is why the annual fee is generally low because the solo 401k plan document provider does not hold the funds, or offer investment advice, for example.

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  • Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Greg K.

    Good questions.You would need a separate EIN for the solo 401k. This is important when opening the solo 401k bank account as the bank will need to tie the solo 401k to its own EIN.

    It is not always best to have multiple solo 401k plans as all the rules (i.e., contributions, loans, and 5500-ez reporting, for example) apply in aggregate.

    The annual fee charged by most providers is primarily to process the solo 401k plan required updates, and the solo 401k plan document provider has to process those plan updates not the solo 401k owner. That is why the annual fee is generally low because the solo 401k plan document provider does not hold the funds, or offer investment advice, for example.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Greg K.

    from what you describing (please correct me if I'm wrong) it looks that this is not a new business that you setup, you still running the same business but now using an entity (an LLC). You can't have another Solo 401k plan for the same business and if you wanted to switch to a self-directed plan you can't just shut down your existing plan and open a new one. What you would have to do is 'restate' your plan so that you can invest in real estate and other alternative investments.

    If you already have an EIN for your 401k plan - you will not need a new one when you restate it, you'll continue using the same EIN.

    Mark explained you about the fees, I just would like to add that unless you are an attorney with experience in ERISA - you are not capable of keeping plan documents updated to ensure compliance. And if you fail to update your plan documents - your plan will be deemed disqualified. So what is your alternative? - pay an attorney couple thousand dollars for the update... or use one of the providers for a small annual fee. And in addition to that if you are working with a reputable provider you'll have access to all the expertise this provider brings to the table, you'll always have someone to go to should any question arises regarding your 401k plan.

    Hope this helps.

  • Kreighton ReedPro Member
    Specialist · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 59 votes
    9y

    Another way to look at the fee:

    In a traditional 401K with the company that you work for the plan owners pay a yearly fee (be it an outright fee or a % of earnings) That fee pays the plan administrators and covers the cost of keeping the plan compliant.  In a Self Directed 401K the plan administrators also collect a fee to keep your plan compliant.  In my opinion the SD 401K fee is a lot lower than what you are playing in your companies 401K plan its just not as visible because they(your companies 401K provider) take it off the top.

  • Justin WindhamPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Greg K.

    You got some good responses here already. I'll just add that with annual fees as low as $100, it really can be a good value proposition for you to have a company provide all of your document updates and ongoing support for a plan that allows you to do so much more than the traditional plans.

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Thanks everyone for the replies. Yes, Dmitriy, it's an existing sole prop business (with an EIN) but now using an LLC (with its own EIN). It sounds like restating the plan and keeping the existing plan's EIN is the answer. Appreciate the feedback and insight on the fees as well.

  • Real Estate Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Actually, have some follow up questions:

    If the plan is restated, what happens to existing investments?  For example, if someone had an existing 401k plan with Vanguard and owned stocks or mutual funds, can you bring those over?  Could someone have checkbook control with a company like Vanguard in a restated plan?  

    What other considerations would there be if someone has a spouse or family member as part of their existing solo 401k plan?  

    Thanks.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Greg, when restating a plan to a self-direct you would have to terminate your service with Vanguard as custodian and move those funds to non-custodial account. Vanguard does not provide checkbook control self directed plans. But after your plan is restated you can open non-custodial account with Vanguard. 

    If your spouse is part of your business she can participate in the plan and can have a separate account. 

  • Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Greg K.

    A lot of our clients have checkbook control solo 401k brokerage accounts at Fidelity and Schwab. The vanguard funds can be transferred in-kind to the Fidelity brokerage account which come with a checkbook for placing real estate investments.

  • Sonny RuckstuhlPro Member
    Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2013 · 39 posts · 41 votes
    9y

    Mark, I have an Individual 401k with Schwab.  I don't see a solo 401k option. The Individual 401k explicitly states I cannot purchase real estate.  Will keep looking there, but wondering if I am missing something.

  • Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Sonny Ruckstuhl

    You Schwab Individual 401k would need to be restated to a solo 401k plan offered by a solo 401k provider like our company. Providers such as us will then fill out the applicable Schwab forms for you as well as the internal Individual 401k transfer form to move the existing Individual 401k with Schwab to the new Schwab brokerage account that is set up for the new solo 401k. Schwab will then issue a checkbook.

  • Justin WindhamPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Sonny Ruckstuhl

    Schwab does not offer plans that can invest into real estate. You'll need to go to a self-directed 401k provider for that. Once you have your self-directed Solo 401k setup, you can then open an account for that 401k at Schwab. In this case, Schwab is not providing the 401k, just an investment account for your more fully-featured self-directed 401k. 

  • Bernard ReiszPro Member
    CPA delivering RE Tax Tools: 1031 Exchange, SDIRA, 401(k), Cost Seg · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 581 posts · 563 votes
    8y

    Plan documents, in addition to a potential requirement for intermittent updates, require comprehensive revision every few years. Plans that are not amended as required are disqualified. We have seen many instances in which individuals obtained plan documents from providers that charged very high initial fees and no ongoing maintenance fees - the result, disqualified plan documents as no plan updates were provided. In contrast, many compliant providers charge a very reasonable initial fee, followed by low annual annual maintenance fees to preserve the tax-favored status of your plan.

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