Wealth Ability- formerly ProVision - Tom Wheelwright

53 Replies

I'm looking into some better guidance into tax planning and a new CPA as I grow my real estate business.   Has anyone worked with Tom Wheelwright's ProVIsion or now Wealth Ability?  I had a consultation with them and have read Tax Free Wealth and think they would definitely be able to help me.  Sounds like its a $4k tax planning fee and then they do your taxes as well for an additional fee.  Looking for experience with these guys or other suggestions to look into.

Quick Bio:

I live in Iowa and currently have an LLC with rental properties, farm, sell insurance, and have a w-2 job so I just feel as if I'm in need of some good tax planning but also a CPA that has had experience with farmers.

@Rylan Zwanziger The book had an interesting angle. Definitely one of the more engaging Rich Dad books. You'll have to do a cost-benefit analysis. Does it make sense to pay this much money to do your taxes especially if you're not running a complex tax strategy? 

The "tax strategist" angle is an interesting angle but that assumes you are doing peculiar work. If you're running a regular LLC and the most you'll do is 1031 exchanges, then it might not be the best (financially speaking only) way forward as you don't need fancy advice.

I just signed on to start using them.  I’ve heard a lot of great things, so I made the jump.  Haven’t been with them for long, so I can’t give any realtime feedback 

Originally posted by @Rylan Zwanziger :

@Spencer Stensrude   Thanks for the recommendation, I'll maybe reach out to Eric.

@Chase Keller   Have you gone through the strategy implementation yet?  If so how was that experience? Valuable? To me once I would pay the $4k and then they would reach out and work with a team on developing a tax strategy/plan.

Hey there! You may have already made your decision on this cause the thread is a few months old. But in case you haven't, and for all those appearing here after the fact:

My wife and I signed on for the ProVision strategy planning a year ago. We knew we wanted professional direction. We had a lot of ambition with what we wanted to do in real estate investing, and also knew it would help with my wife's business too. It took us four months (or so) to complete the strategy planning. Regular 1-1.5hr long phone conference meetings with two specialists that were assigned to us (and we still keep in touch with as questions arise to this day). Each session focused on a different aspect of building our own personal wealth strategy. A reasonable amount of homework (stuff to watch/listen to, informational forms and worksheets to fill out... basically forces you to really THINK about what it is you want to achieve so it can all be mapped out and make sense as an actual plan). 

It accomplished exactly what my wife and I hoped for: Got us taking directly (with them and ourselves) about what our broad goals were, and beyond that the baby steps that would take us there. Both short term and long term. It was pricey. We could justify it since it wasn't just for our real estate investing on the side but also beneficial to her own business.

We had ProVision do our tax preparation this year. This is our first tax year with any sort of real estate investments on there to influence our tax hit for 2017. Let's just say that ProVision really maximized our return. We are incredibly happy. We also have a meeting set up with them to chat for a half hour in order to ask questions about what pieces of our return were most influenced by what elements of our businesses... we want to understand the mechanics that made this year so good so we can replicate next tax year.

All in all, we are very happy and highly recommend ProVision (if I'm not mistaken, ProVision and Wealthability are two separate businesses... At least, we still work with ProVision, and Wealthability *seems* to be something else... I'm not entirely sure where those lines are drawn.)

If you have any more questions, hit me up! Happy to help.

Jason,

Thanks for posting about your experience.  Just had a call today and thinking about doing ProVision.  Sounds like prices vary based on each situation but I'm looking at $15k.  How much time did you spend interacting with your team during the initial 2-3 month strategy / plan development phase?

It sounds like it's been a year or more since you started.  Do you feel that you can ask questions, have meetings, get advice any time?  The thing that makes me nervous about a one-time fee is that I'm looking to build a relationship with a CPA for life.  With a flat fee I worry they'll be wanting to get me rolling and let me go, since the less they interact with me the more money they make (since it's not hourly).  Has this been your experience at all?

Hey folks, just to provide some clarity on where the lines are drawn between WealthAbility and Provision...WealthAbility is now Tom Wheelwright's primary company for helping people apply the concepts of Tax-Free Wealth. He is no longer associated with ProVision. So if you're looking to build a tax/wealth strategy that follows Tom's "official" and up-to-date processes,  https://WealthAbility.com is your place. (Though ProVision is a great group and does fantastic work!)

Hope that helps!

For context: I have worked closely with their team on the biz side (not as a client) in the past. 

Based on the feedback from a high net worth client in the RE industry (you'd know his name if I mentioned it):  Very expensive, nothing he hadn't heard elsewhere in re tax planning, much more interested in up-sells.  I read his book (in both English & Spanish, good practice).  Nothing in there that the dozen or so tax pro's who post here wouldn't know.  Useful tips, very "Tax Planning 101".  In fairness, I'd not expect more from a mass market paperback.  

There are a number of people who post here who will likely provide way better bang for the buck.  When you are dealing with someone who is as well publicized as Wheelwright, you pay a premium for the name.  

Originally posted by @John Hyre :

Based on the feedback from a high net worth client in the RE industry (you'd know his name if I mentioned it):  Very expensive, nothing he hadn't heard elsewhere in re tax planning, much more interested in up-sells.  I read his book (in both English & Spanish, good practice).  Nothing in there that the dozen or so tax pro's who post here wouldn't know.  Useful tips, very "Tax Planning 101".  In fairness, I'd not expect more from a mass market paperback.  

There are a number of people who post here who will likely provide way better bang for the buck.  When you are dealing with someone who is as well publicized as Wheelwright, you pay a premium for the name.  

Hi John, I manage client experiences for WealthAbility and work closely with ProVision, if your client would be interested in going over their experience that is very unusual feedback, and we'd certainly love the opportunity to address it with them and understand what the issue was or where they felt they were being upsold. We do also do tax returns if there is value there for our clients. 

Thanks!

Brad

I reside in fort Wayne in ,, just started my real estate investing with a purchase of 4 properties also have several small businesses an am looking for a recommendation to a cpa that will help plan a tax strategy 

@Chase Keller , I am also searching for a tax advisor at this point that is well versed in REI. Wondering if you have any additional feedback now that it’s been about 5-6 months. Thanks.
Originally posted by @Chase Keller :

I just signed on to start using them.  I’ve heard a lot of great things, so I made the jump.  Haven’t been with them for long, so I can’t give any realtime feedback 

Are you able to give some better feedback from using them at this point?

Hello all, Does anyone have any good connections to a CPA who is familiar with St. Croix, USVI and also international tax law?

My husband and I are sole proprietors on St. Croix, USVI, plan to invest there as well and on top of that I am German with a Greencard and my husband U.S. American.

I know this is pretty specific but maybe I'm lucky and any of you have recommendations.

We are also currently looking at Wealthability. Consultation is tomorrow.

Hi all ... just started working with Wealthability about 2 months ago. Their goal is to reduce my taxes by 50% this year and get it to zero over 3 years. One key was to classify me as a "real estate professional" because that allows you to offset your ACTIVE income with the PASSIVE losses from the real estate. They're currently reviewing my entities for additional tax savings. Tom's philosophy in general is to figure out how to deduct EVERYTHING. It was a significant investment upfront but I expect to get that back in tax savings in year 1 and then everything moving forward will be gravy. While not exclusively focused on real estate, their "specialty" is real estate. I know a doctor who's been working with them; he's a passive investor with HUGE active income; Wealthabilty helped him figure out how to leverage the real estate depreciation to reduce his taxes.

Hope that helps.

How’s this working out for you? I just had my initial call. $10k for services.  Sticker shock for sure. 

Any  CPAs out there looking to connect? Please drop me a note. 

Thanks

luke



Originally posted by @Michael Blank :

Hi all ... just started working with Wealthability about 2 months ago. Their goal is to reduce my taxes by 50% this year and get it to zero over 3 years. One key was to classify me as a "real estate professional" because that allows you to offset your ACTIVE income with the PASSIVE losses from the real estate. They're currently reviewing my entities for additional tax savings. Tom's philosophy in general is to figure out how to deduct EVERYTHING. It was a significant investment upfront but I expect to get that back in tax savings in year 1 and then everything moving forward will be gravy. While not exclusively focused on real estate, their "specialty" is real estate. I know a doctor who's been working with them; he's a passive investor with HUGE active income; Wealthabilty helped him figure out how to leverage the real estate depreciation to reduce his taxes.

Hope that helps.

My wife and I are seriously considering Wealthability and I appreciate those who have used it who have commented! I’m curious for those who signed up if they still believe in it and recommend it? I have a couple questions:

1. How much did you pay for the service?

2. After your strategy session, are you able to contact the CPA’s any time as part of the fee?

3. They claim there is only a one-time charge and then the only charge is to file your tax return each year. Is that true? Are there other hidden costs or “upsells?”

I REALLY appreciate any feedback you all can provide as this is quite an investment they are asking of us. 

Thanks,

James 

@Michael Blank

"I know a doctor who's been working with them; he's a passive investor with HUGE active income; Wealthabilty helped him figure out how to leverage the real estate depreciation to reduce his taxes."

Unless that doctor has a modified AGI of less than $150k (which is unlikely for a doctor, trust me) or has a spouse that's a real estate professional, there's no way he can use regular real estate losses to reduce his taxes...

If his return is selected for examination he'll be hit with back taxes, interest, and penalties.

As a CPA, I agree with Eamonn. Anyone can declare real estate losses against their active income if their income is under the AGI threshold but only someone whose PRIMARY profession is designated to be a real estate professional will be able to offset active income. Unless the doctor's either semi or fully retired from the profession, there's no way he or she would be considered a real estate professional. There's no grey area here and under an audit, this would easily be reversed.

Originally posted by @Eamonn McElroy :

@Michael Blank

"I know a doctor who's been working with them; he's a passive investor with HUGE active income; Wealthabilty helped him figure out how to leverage the real estate depreciation to reduce his taxes."

Unless that doctor has a modified AGI of less than $150k (which is unlikely for a doctor, trust me) or has a spouse that's a real estate professional, there's no way he can use regular real estate losses to reduce his taxes...

If his return is selected for examination he'll be hit with back taxes, interest, and penalties.

 

Originally posted by @Christopher Fraze :

@Harjot Khangura 

If he files jointly with his wife and his wife does the 750 hours/year required for the Real Estate Professional tax status that would be legal and the unlimited depreciation defensible, right?

Yes, I'd have to review the specific requirements but I believe if his wife didn't have another primary profession and spends 750 hours as a real estate professional then she should qualify as a real estate professional. This would allow them to take real estate losses against their earned income. Not sure what unlimited depreciation is but depreciate would be factored into their real estate losses.

@Eamonn McElroy

I was just curious because I had this same recommendation from a CPA. I am a brand new rental real estate investor (2 rental properties) with a lot of W2 income to manage and try to mitigate. I cannot qualify for the Real Estate Investor status because of my full time job but my wife could potentially do it. The upside of that deduction seems unbelievable as it scales ad infinitum. Need to shelter more passive rental income..... buy another house and depreciate then repeat.