Tenant Damaged Property But Property Manager Already Returned Deposit
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Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votesI'd tell the PM to suck it up and pay for half of it as it was their fault they returned the deposit too soon.
11 Replies
- 3yGreg ScottPro MemberRental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
You are correct. The tenants should be responsible for damage caused to the unit.
However, you have lost all your leverage. Since you aren't holding the deposit, you cannot pull the monies from there. Since the resident was provided a letter with the return of the security deposit, they could probably hold that up in court that you agreed the lease was satisfied. You are left with asking nicely if they will cover the cost, and it is unlikely they would volunteer to pay for it.
You may want to have a serious conversation with your management company about proper check-out procedures.
- 3yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
I'd tell the PM to suck it up and pay for half of it as it was their fault they returned the deposit too soon.
- Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
I see you as wrong for thinking this but also don't feel like you should be on the hook. Why on earth would the PM be in such a hurry to return the deposit, here we have 30 days. Is it shorter where you have your rentals and they were on a time crunch? I would let the PM know that this is something that they need to pay for and they can either pay for it or reduce the placement fee for the next tenant by the cost to repair. If not you have to decide if there are better options out there in your area and if so use them. Tenants always want the deposit back ASAP but I tell them it is going to be a minimum of a couple weeks while I inspect and up to the 30 days if there will be deductions. It seems like on a lot of posts the go to answer is to hire a property manager but this is just one of the many reasons not to if you don't have to. Nobody is going to care for your property like you would and if the properties are local and you have the time it really isn't that hard.
- Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
@Jay Sing, check with a specialist on granite but I believe it needs to be sealed to protect it from absorbing things and staining.
So, if it wasn't properly sealed, that could be why there are stains that are hard to remove. That would NOT be the tenant's fault. That would be YOUR fault for not having this done as part of property maintenance.
I'm guessing that if properly sealed that these stains would not have happened and would simply have been cleaned off.
- Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes3y
@Jay Sing Agree with the others here, your PM should not be returning a deposit so quickly and certainly not before the house was completely cleaned and inspected. What does the lease say about turn around time for the deposit? It sounds like the PM didn't do a proper inspection procedure so they should be covering the cost of repair. I would ask to see the move out inspection report, photos, and deposit disposition. If they cannot provide any of that, then it's time to find a new PM.
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
@Jay Sing, check with a specialist on granite but I believe it needs to be sealed to protect it from absorbing things and staining.
So, if it wasn't properly sealed, that could be why there are stains that are hard to remove. That would NOT be the tenant's fault. That would be YOUR fault for not having this done as part of property maintenance.
I'm guessing that if properly sealed that these stains would not have happened and would simply have been cleaned off.
So I got a little more information on what caused the damage. It wasn’t a project. The tenants had put a printer on the counter and the ink system had been leaking for some time under the printer. So I doubt any sealing would have prevented the ink penetration, having pooled there for so long.
Feeling a certain way and actually being able to do anything about it is a whole other ballgame.
You have no leverage on the tenant, so thats a dead end.
This is a PM issues and I'd be pissed and fighting to have them rectify the situation.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes3y
Quote from @Jay Sing:
Why would they return the deposit before cleaning? Even if they were able to clean the marks, they should have charged the Tenant the $30 it cost to send a cleaner.
Your PM is responsible. I would demand they fix it at their cost. If they refuse, fix it and send them the bill. If they refuse to pay, file a complaint with the state commission.
Start looking for a new PM.
Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.
Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.
1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.
2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.
3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.
4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.
5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.
6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.
7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?
This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - 3yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
The PMC should admit their part in the problem.
We would probably NOT directly pay for part of the repair, but would offer a discount on our services. Some type of combination on Maintenance Fee, Placement Fee, monthly Management Fee, etc.
Logical Property Management4.9455 Reviews - 3yMelanie ThomasBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · San Antonio · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 490 votes
I am curious about the amount of the deposit in relation to the cost of properly remedying the ink stains. Were there sufficient funds remaining to cover it? There are several questions that need to be answered to obtain a complete understanding of the situation. In the event that there weren't enough funds, you would have likely chosen either option A, which is to let it go, or option B, which is to personally cover the cost and pursue collection from the tenants. Tough spot to be in and I hope you find a resolution soon. Good luck & happy investing!
RentWerx Property Management4.73308 Reviews @Jay Sing a photo would be helpful here.
It's hard to say how obvious or egregious this is without seeing it firsthand.
I'm a little biased, being in the PM industry, but I will tell you that not everything that CAN be claimed at a move-out, always IS claimed. It's not an exact science.
We manage a lot of doors. I have to send my agents to do move-out inspections on a tight schedule, typically allowing about 30 minutes to walk, see, smell, type up a template and take a lot of photos. The data the agent acquires is processed back in the office, where we can compare move-in and move-out photos and details. While my field agents have a very specific list of things to look for and photograph and document, it's never going to be perfect. Maybe they miss a stain on a granite countertop.
I also don't believe that a mistake of this nature should put the PMC on the hook for financial liability. It's my view that a security deposit claim or non-claim can probably be modified if new information comes to light. Whether or not to travel down that road would depend on the severity of the newly discovered issue.
I love the people on here who say "Charge your PM." Ha, ok. Let's play that out logically. If you want my PMC or any other PMC to make a perfect move-out analysis, be prepared to pay about 10X what we charge. There simply is no market for a PM to spend hours pouring over every fine-grain detail of a property.
I think we represent the state-of-the-art at my firm when it comes to turnover analysis. We have sophisticated systems and processing and we discover most issues. But depending on this ink stain on your granite countertops, I will tell you straight up there's a good chance we miss it if it's not obvious.
Remember that ultimately, you're not paying your PMC for "perfection." Chances are, you would see no value in paying the amount of money you would need to pay to demand perfection.
You're paying them to manage your asset effectively and to add value. What that means in practice encompasses a lot more than whether they performed a perfect move-out evaluation.
Real Estate Solutions4.3379 Reviews
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