My daughter has lived in an apartment for 10 years. She just moved out. The unit was left broom clean and all appliances were cleaned. She did a walk through with the owner before leaving. The owner has just hired a property management company who is now handling the unit and these repairs.
The property management company called her and asked her how much the security deposit was. Coincidentally the list of repairs they emailed her equals the amount of her security deposit. See below:
These items all seem like maintenance items that should be done to an apartment after someone has lived there for 10 years. She should not be paying the cost to update the unit for the next tenant. By the way the sink replacement cost is ridiculous because the landlord just replaced in within the last year!
Does anyone have knowledge on California law for tenants regarding security deposits or thoughts on what she should do?
Full Paint walls/ceilings (2 coats) 1 $400.00 Refinish kitchen cabinets 1 $100.00 Replace all blinds 1 $180.00 Replace two light bulbs 1 $30.00 Touch up paint tub 1 $60.00 Replace shower rod 1 $30.00 Replace liv room screen/re screen sliding door 1 $120.00 Repair closet doors 1 $120.00 Bathroom sink replacement 1 $350.00 Full clean unit 1 $410.00 Notes: Subtotal $1,800.00
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
11mo
@Donald Paul you're getting some good advice from @Greg Scott, but I'm looking at this another way...
If what you say is true, and the owner hired the PMC AFTER the owner did the final walk-thru with your daughter, then the PMC has no legal right to request this money from your daughter!
Recommend demanding the owner follow California laws regarding handling of security deposit charges & refund or threaten the owner with lawsuit - many states allow double or triple damages against landlords/PMCs that don't properly follow the laws.
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
11mo
If she has been there 10 years, many of these items you would expect to have to replace due to normal wear & tear. I have a feeling the owner did not give the property management company any security deposit and they don't want to float the owner any refund, so they made stuff up.
Hopefully you have pictures of video of the move-out. For the management company to charge you for all these items, they will need some evidence of abuse. It is unlikely they have pictures of the condition of the unit before your daughter moved in from 10 years ago. That is what they would need to claim the items were damaged by her unless it is obvious it was likely caused by her.
I would write them a letter demanding a full refund of the security deposit and if it is not received within 10 days tell them you will take them to small claims court. Keep it short and simple. Don't try to argue your point in the letter. The letter alone might cause them to send money.
File a suit in the court and follow all the steps. Serve them appropriate notice. Bring your story and all evidence you have to court. Odds are pretty good you will some or all of the money back.
My daughter has lived in an apartment for 10 years. She just moved out. The unit was left broom clean and all appliances were cleaned. She did a walk through with the owner before leaving. The owner has just hired a property management company who is now handling the unit and these repairs.
The property management company called her and asked her how much the security deposit was. Coincidentally the list of repairs they emailed her equals the amount of her security deposit. See below:
These items all seem like maintenance items that should be done to an apartment after someone has lived there for 10 years. She should not be paying the cost to update the unit for the next tenant. By the way the sink replacement cost is ridiculous because the landlord just replaced in within the last year!
Does anyone have knowledge on California law for tenants regarding security deposits or thoughts on what she should do?
Full Paint walls/ceilings (2 coats) 1 $400.00 Refinish kitchen cabinets 1 $100.00 Replace all blinds 1 $180.00 Replace two light bulbs 1 $30.00 Touch up paint tub 1 $60.00 Replace shower rod 1 $30.00 Replace liv room screen/re screen sliding door 1 $120.00 Repair closet doors 1 $120.00 Bathroom sink replacement 1 $350.00 Full clean unit 1 $410.00 Notes: Subtotal $1,800.00
CA recently (this year) implemented very strict security deposit laws. Some will not apply because she moved in prior to this year. For example the new law requires photo before move-in, but the law did not exist 10 years ago. However, the PM is required to provide photos of the state at move out and after the repair along with the itemized statement.
They can only charge for damage beyond wear and tear.
They cannot charge for painting the walls. This is expected after 10 years.
Depending on age of cabinets they cannot charge for refinishing them (Evan though that is a very reasonable quote).
There needs to be more info provided in why the sink needs replacing. If it is damage caused by tenant (unlikely for good tenants) then possibly legit If it has just got old or failed due to age, then they cannot charge the tenant
Depending on age of tub, they cannot charge to touch up paint the tub.
Depending on the quality of the blinds, 10 years could be their expected lifetime For example those 1” aluminum horizontal blinds are lucky to last 10 years Good verticals blinds can last much longer.
If they cannot produce a move-in check list or photos documenting the condition at move-in, they cannot charge for anything as how can they show it was not existing at move-in?
During the walk through inspection, the landlord must identify the damages the landlord intends to deduct from the security deposit and give the tenant an itemized statement so that the tenant has a chance to fix the problems beforE getting charged. It appears this did not happen. This alone is reason LL should look for a compromise.
I suggest you start by asking for documentation of the condition at move-in such at a move-in check list or photos. If they cannot provide one request your entire deposit. if they can provide one (probably unlikely) reference that because there was a exist walk through LL was required to state what they were going to deduct for and give tenant opportunity to address the issue.
Also PM had to get you the itemized list with in 21 days of vacating unit unless you extend it in some way. I had a tenant once tell me they would provide me their new address for the security deposit and provided it on day 19 then tried to complain that they had not received it by day 21. I pointed out it was not possible given that they requested me send it to the address they were to provide and they provided it too late to get there by day 21. If they had not explicitly stated that they were going to provide mean address, in the absence of an address it gets sent to their previous rental address and rely on postal forwarding. They threatened to sue and I told them I would see them in court, I never got sued.
If a tenant files a court case claiming the security deposit laws were violated, the landlord has to prove that the amounts deducted were reasonable. If the landlord acted in bad faith, courts can award the tenant his or her actual loss plus up to twice the amount of the deposit.
I suspect you can legally get out of paying for any of the items because I doubt they will have documented move-in condition. What is fair is maybe 25% of that cost.
If the LL does not forego most of this confiscation of security deposit, consult a lawyer. If your daughter is low income, consult law help California (LawHelpCa).
Richmond, VA · Member since 2019 · 358 posts · 181 votes
11mo
Totally agree with Dan - you need them to provide you with a move in inspection so you can compare to the move out. 10 years is a long time where paint and most of those other charges would be void due to life expectancy and normal wear and tear.
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
11mo
@Donald Paul you're getting some good advice from @Greg Scott, but I'm looking at this another way...
If what you say is true, and the owner hired the PMC AFTER the owner did the final walk-thru with your daughter, then the PMC has no legal right to request this money from your daughter!
Recommend demanding the owner follow California laws regarding handling of security deposit charges & refund or threaten the owner with lawsuit - many states allow double or triple damages against landlords/PMCs that don't properly follow the laws.
@Donald Paul you're getting some good advice from @Greg Scott, but I'm looking at this another way...
If what you say is true, and the owner hired the PMC AFTER the owner did the final walk-thru with your daughter, then the PMC has no legal right to request this money from your daughter!
Recommend demanding the owner follow California laws regarding handling of security deposit charges & refund or threaten the owner with lawsuit - many states allow double or triple damages against landlords/PMCs that don't properly follow the laws.
I love your perspective on this. You manage many properties for other owners. We manage our own properties so I never would have encountered this issue of when the PM was hired.
Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11mo
It appears that the dollar amounts charged are extremely fair. After living in a unit for 10 years we normally have a MUCH MUCH larger list of repairs that are need. This indicates to me that your daughter probably took good care of the unit AND the PM is probably being fair.
