Advice: I Inherited a house in San Diego with a Long Term Tenant

Advice: I Inherited a house in San Diego with a Long Term Tenant

Investor · Danville, VT · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 33 votes

 I am a 44 year old teacher who suddenly inherited property in San Diego when my father passed away unexpectedly. I have no experience managing tenants or property. The home is a single family home in the Clairemont neighborhood within short walking distance of Mesa College. Zillow values the house north of 500K. The house is paid for and the taxes are very low thanks to prop 13. My father was renting to an older couple, and as far as I can tell, never raised the rent. They have been paying $1400 a month for the four bedroom house for years and years. They've lived in the house for over a decade I think. I live way out of state (Vermont) and have hired a local property manager to oversee this property and another property that my father left. After a bit of research, I told the property manager that I wanted to raise the rent to fair market value which seems to be at least 2500 dollars a month according to Craigslist and Zillow. She was reluctant at first, which pissed me off, but after I insisted she told me what a good idea it was. When the PM informed the tenants, she claims they were indignant and very rude to her. They claimed to have had "an agreement" with my late father. The property manager after consulting with my probate attorney then advised me to give them at least six months to find a new place, which I did, and this waiting period is up on July 1st.

Recently,  I received a call from the property manager informing me that the tenants had approached her and said that they are unable to find another place to live and asked her what renovations I would do in exchange for a rent increase. She asked me what I wanted to do and I have not responded to her yet. 

What should I do? I feel somewhat guilty about raising the rent and/or forcing the tenants to find a new home , but also anger about my father having been taken advantage of. 

Should I respond to this request, or should I continue with the plan to renovate and turn over tenants? How valuable is a long term tenant in the San Diego market?

I know that I will need to renovate the house after they leave, but I have no way to truly estimate these costs. The thought of coordinating this from across the country is daunting.  I'm sure there is quite a bit of deferred maintenance since it has been rented for so long. Do any of you seasoned landlords see any value in keeping these long term tenants in the house? The tenants are an older couple with an adult son who is disabled and in a wheelchair.  I have strong suspicions based on my one brief visit to the property that the tenants were also subletting a section of the house although I have no proof of that. I am not reliant on the rental income and there is money from the estate to renovate with. I am conflicted about being an evil landlord, but feel in my gut that it would be best strategically and financially if they were gone. Is there anything else I should consider? If you've read this far, thank you. Your thoughts are appreciated.

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Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
10y

I would not sell as long as the taxes and everything else stays the same. Raise the rent $250, while upgrading nothing. This will cover the property managers fees and give you a couple of bucks. 

Use the property to fund other deals closer to home.

Out of respect for my Father I would let the tenants stay. It was his wishes that they live there. Without him you would not have the property in the first place.

It is not very respectful to think that your Father was not smart enough to handle his own affairs, yet left you a monthly income, several parcels of real estate, and a sizable pile of cash. 

Honoring your Father will pay you more dividends, then any rental property will give.

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  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 765 votes
    10y

    This post may be a little biased.

    I think you should renovate and raise to market rent.  It will be incredibly easy to find a new tenant at market rate in San Diego.  Morally, this is not you being an evil landlord.  These people have had their housing subsidized by your father (and now through estate, by you) for years.

    I live very close to this area.  If you PM me the address, I can give you my honest assessment of the area/exterior.

  • Architect · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 244 posts · 101 votes
    10y

    Matthew, so sorry to hear about your loss. If rehabbing from across country is causing you stress, your best bet might be to sell on the MLS w/ an agent and use the proceeds to invest locally. You will likely get multiple offers.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Why would you even consider keeping the property. To begin you owe the renters nothing and you should care less what happens to them. They have been living practically rent free for years and the free ride is over. The equity in the property is worth far more than the market rents if your estimate of $2500/m is correct. That property should be get a minimum of $3500 based on it's value and probably more. If you can not get that much rent it is a terrable investment and you should not even consider keeping this property.

    Sell it and invest the money for a better return.

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y

    Question: how do you know your father was being taken advantage of? Maybe he traded the stability and ease of the tenancy for more rent. Everything in life has a cost and a consequence. You may be able to manage the property yourself at below-market rates with good tenants, so don't be so sure that you're not already getting a good deal (especially since you inherited the property!). I have at least one property that is somewhat below market rate, but the tenant is easy and trouble-free, and that is worth something to me. 

    If you want to raise rents to market rates, what does the lease say? If there's no lease, and they are month to month, your best bet is probably to start fresh with new tenants, because a jump from 1400 to 2500 is pretty severe for anyone. 

    Personally, it doesn't sound like you really have any interest in being a landlord. I would sell the property and either invest in something closer to your home or just move the funds to another investment vehicle, and let a new buyer deal with it. 

    Skyline Properties
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  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 765 votes
    10y

    A history of solid rental increase.  Growing population.  High barriers to new construction.

    In the long run, San Diego will outperform any city with great paper returns.

    Completely unbiased statement.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    But the present property based on a rent of $2500/m is going to have negative cash flow with it having $500000 equity locked up and virtually dead.

    Money today is worth more than money tomorrow.

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 765 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    But the present property based on a rent of $2500/m is going to have negative cash flow with it having $500000 equity locked up and virtually dead.

    Money today is worth more than money tomorrow.

    There's no loan on the property.  It will cashflow and also likely appreciate in value.  A lot of money tomorrow is worth more than a little money today.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2010 · 76 posts · 21 votes
    10y

    I am a local investor, agent and own a construction company in SD.  Our offices are located in Clairemont, feel free to connect with me and reach out if you want some advice or recommendations. 

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    What was on the last lease?  Follow California law on giving the written increase notice. At minimum get a new lease signed.  Me I would stage any increase. If you are sure you are not subject to any rent control you can decide how you want to do that. If they won't pay it you are probably go to eviction eventually.   If they are disabled there may be additional notice time they are also entitled to. 

    I would not sell the property as some have suggested (what tax consequence do you have to doing this?). You need to take some time to decide if you do or do not want to be a landlord. If in the end you don't want to be a landlord you can use the time to get market ready. If you do want to be a landlord on this property then even with a PM you need to know something about landlording so I would read up.

     Lastly subletters I would not allow and put that in the lease, if the subletter is their disabled son however  I would allow (this may be a technical way to get him his own housing).

    As for improvements immediately fix anything that is not safe or broken. Then look at comparable houses and see what would bring yours up to the current time period. In any event there are a lot of issues here get some financial input. Don't make verbal promises of improvements to the tenants.  It only hurts you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 108 posts · 49 votes
    10y

    Slightly different scenario but most of the small multi families we buy have below market rents.  As a prior poster said, I think a lot of landlords who self manage would rather have stable tenants than higher rents.  You touched on this but the home is likely in below market condition and would need some work to get market rents.  We generally up rents and improve units as they turnover and incrementally raise rents for longer-term tenants.  Why not just sell the properties?  Why deal with these questions when you can likely pocket a nice profit from the properties and let another owner figure out the long-term rental strategy.    

  • Investor · Danville, VT · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 33 votes
    10y

     Greg, is the equity locked up and virtually dead? I was hoping to eventually leverage the equity in these houses to find other cash flow properties. Is this not possible? I pay virtually no taxes on the property so why should I sell? Is it really a terrible investment? Why does everyone want to buy it then? 

    Jd, I don't know if my father was being taken advantage. I know he had a big heart and was perhaps happy not to be bothered by tennant issues, but the fact that they were paying at least 1000 dollars below value and most likely subletting has me jaded. 

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    No loan on the property means nothing. There is $500000 in equity in the property which at a minimum should be earning at least 6% return. That is $2500/month opportunity return. With rent at $2500/month the property is earning 0 as a income property. The $2500 is attributed directly to the income value of the equity not the income value of the property. The property itself is earning 0 at $2500/m. There is no rental income on the property only the return on the equity.

    Now subtract the expenses at say 50% which is roughly $1250/month therefor 0 - $1250 = ($1250)

    Ball park this property is roughly $1250 per month negative cash flow. This is not a investment property it is a loser that can only rely on speculation to be able to cover the costs to maintain.

    The property appears to be in a market where rents can not be high enough to make for a good investment if investors place any value on equity.

    One of my properties is valued about the same as yours and my income is $6700/month. Any less and I would not waste my time or money to hold it. 

  • Investor · Danville, VT · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 33 votes
    10y

    The tenants are month to month. The PM inspected the property, drew up a rental agreement, secured rental insurance, and had any safety issues addressed at the property including the installation of proper smoke detectors. My big question is should I start fresh with new tenants, or enter negotiations through my property mananger about improvements and rent. 

    I'm suprised at how many people immediately think I should just sell the properties. I am here at biggerpockets in order to learn about real estate investing. I want to build passive income and wealth just like the rest of you. I appreciate the variety of opinions and am new to the whole social networking thing, so please forgive me if I have stumbled into the wrong place.

  • Accountant · Hopwood, PA · Member since 2015 · 125 posts · 92 votes
    10y

    So after 3 1/2 months of looking, the tenants realize that they can't find anything comparable to where they currently are, but want you to renovate in order to stay?  What exactly makes their stance tenable?  

    However, based on what you've told us, the house probably is not in the condition necessary to warrant market rent.  Perhaps a raise to $2000 to $2100 a month with no upgrading would be fair for all involved?  

  • Investor · Danville, VT · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 33 votes
    10y

    So Greg your advice is that I should sell, loose the prop 13 tax break, take the capital gains hit, and then buy other properties in better markets with better returns? I was hoping to just use these properties as a cash cow and borrow against them if and when I find better deals in better markets. Is that naive?

  • Investor · Linden, NJ · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 11 votes
    10y

    I don't think you should sell it. How much could the property be rented if you do some renovations?

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y

    OK, thoughts:

    1. Right now you have an underperforming asset, but an income-producing asset nevertheless. 

    2. I believe you put the cart before the horse, raising a ruckus before figuring out your strategy.

    3. Not every investment makes high returns; sometimes you trade return for security. 

    4. There are not likely to be many better markets than San Diego. You have a free & clear house with low property taxes. If you want to be a landlord, you are in a good market. If you don't want to be a landlord, it doesn't matter if it's a good market or not. 

    5. What leads you to believe the tenants were subletting? Was there an agreement against this? Is there one now?

    6. There are ways to limit/avoid the tax hit if you decide to sell.

    7. Long-term *good* tenants are valuable in any market.

    As best as I could tell, you seem like an "accidental landlord", rather than someone who was seeking out this course. It is better to come up with a strategy first than it is to set the buildings on fire and then ask for advice on mitigating the damage. Be that as it may, you have no obligation to the tenants - your father had a relationship with them. If you want higher rent, give them notice, prepare for any consequences (eviction, damage, rehab, finding new tenants, etc), and go forward. 

    Skyline Properties
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  • Investor · Danville, VT · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 33 votes
    10y

    Thanks for your response Jon. I sort of had those numbers in mind if I were to offer a deal to the current tenants. I know it will cost money to bring the property up to par with market value, the big unknown is how much? I was anticipating new floors, paint, and update the appliances and perhaps the bathroom fixtures. It will take some time for that to pay off at a 300-400 a month rent difference.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    It's a negative cash flow investment property no mater how you look at it. Appreciation is not going to help you pay the bills. This is free money to you as it is inheritance. Sell, take what you get and invest where you live in cash flow positive properties.

    This one is simply of too much value with too low market rents to be worth even considering as a income property.

    You came her to learn, some of us are not going to be positive and uplifting when it comes to money. Some will hold fast to investing in SFHs, some don't care about positive cash flow and others for some reason place no value on equity. I invest to make money today and you have a windfall through inheritance I believe is a turkey as a income investment property. I would sell and turn the money into more money because that is what I do.

    Opinions are like a holes, everyone has one, you have one of your own, do you really need someone else's.   

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Two thoughts. 1. If you sell now, the tax ramifications are minor as there was a step up in basis at your fathers death. 2. The low property taxes due to prop 13 make this a "better" deal then you could otherwise find in the San Diego market--assuming you get a market rate on the rents. From a cash flow perspective, even at $2500 per month, this is a loser; however, if you carefully leverage some of the equity into a couple deals that cash flow well, it could serve as a nice anchor in your real estate portfolio. You just need to determine whether you want to deal with being a landlord on the opposite side of the country.
  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 181 posts · 75 votes
    10y

    My condolences about your father.  

    I work in Austin Texas property management, so I am not familiar with California Tenant Rights.  

    I'll start by saying some owners love long term, under priced tenants because they rarely complain and provide reliability of occupancy and payment.  However, other owners I work with also keep their property in prime shape and demand market rate rents.  

    Could you possibly find a middle ground?  Allow these long term renters to stay with a modest increase - no property improvements?  What if you increased rent to $1800?  

    You mentioned your dad had grandfathered, low property taxes, but I am wondering if that will stay after property moves from probate to your name.  Something to consider as taxes could drive the amount you need to capture in rent.  

    Best of luck to you.  

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    10y

    I would not sell as long as the taxes and everything else stays the same. Raise the rent $250, while upgrading nothing. This will cover the property managers fees and give you a couple of bucks. 

    Use the property to fund other deals closer to home.

    Out of respect for my Father I would let the tenants stay. It was his wishes that they live there. Without him you would not have the property in the first place.

    It is not very respectful to think that your Father was not smart enough to handle his own affairs, yet left you a monthly income, several parcels of real estate, and a sizable pile of cash. 

    Honoring your Father will pay you more dividends, then any rental property will give.

  • Investor · Danville, VT · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 33 votes
    10y

    Jd, 

    Thankyou for taking the time to share your thoughts. Your observations are well taken. I am indeed an accidental landlord. As I said, my father's death was unexpected, and perhaps my "rasing a rukus" by focusing on the underperforming rental property was my way of dealing with some of the grief by focusing on what I thought I had control over. I have a sincere interest in real estate investment and come to this forum seeking advice with humility and respect for those of you who do this professionally. I know that there is so much to learn.

    To answer your question about the subletting, when I did a brief walkthough with the PM there was a  man present at the house who the tenant's son nervously said did not live there. The house was partitioned in such a way that it looked to me like the living room was being used as a seperate apartment. The new rental agreement forbids subletting. 

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Unless you own a cemetery, which by the way is a good investment, a deceased person does not pay dividends. You father has left you with a monthly financial burden that you have not yet fully realised.

    Listen to your father, he is telling you to not be like him, take the money and run. 

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Matthew Ware I'm advertising a 4bed/3.5ba in the same general area as your property and getting plenty of interest at $2700 ... and that's for an attached home (part of a triplex) with no back yard or garage.  The reason your tenants can't find a different place is because the market is just too tight with rents too high.

    You're getting lots of opinions, so I'll give you mine.  I'm in the buy-rehab-hold business here locally, so take it for what it's worth.

    1. @Thomas S. is right.  If you want to maximize your net worth, you should sell this property and invest that money elsewhere.  Your return on equity just isn't high enough to justify holding it as a rental.
    2. Great that you aspire to get involved in real estate investing. Holding this property from across the country isn't going to teach you much. You'd learn a heck of a lot more if you bought something local to you (or got involved in an alternate REI area) where your decisions actually substantially impact your success.
    3. If you decide to sell it, you may consider rehabbing before sale in order to maximize your return.  You'd learn a lot by doing that.
    4. If you decide to keep it, I would avoid renovating with tenants in place.  I would rather raise the rent to $2000/m and do nothing (except maybe paint and carpet) than raise it to $2700 and do a full rehab.  ESPECIALLY since you're not local.

    Your Prop 13 property taxes on the property are great, and I'm jealous you've got them ... but just still no way to make the numbers work.  I suggest you keep it only if you *want* to do so, and if you're prepared to acknowledge that your motivation isn't purely financial.

    Best of luck, and condolences on your father's passing.

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