Investor · Oxnard, CA · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
I live in Ventura California and have a SFH rental in the area that I self manage. Our tenants were burglarized last month and lost $20,000 in jewelry and possessions. The tenant left a window open in the kids room while they were at work.
The tenant said that I did not give them warning that the neighborhood was unsafe. I lived in this neighborhood for 10 years and never had a problem. The tenant is asking us to pay for the security system and monitoring. They got 16 cameras and spot lights all around the house at a cost of $3800. They are six months into their one year lease and have said that they will exercise the option for the one-year extension.
Should I keep them happy and pay $200 per month until it is payed off? Should I say no because they did this without permission?
Does your lease address alterations/repairs? If they didn't approve the cost/alterations prior to doing the installation you are not obligated to repay them.
You cannot legally tell them the neighborhood is "unsafe" as that could be considered steering. That research is a tenant responsibility prior to moving.
Does your lease address alterations/repairs? If they didn't approve the cost/alterations prior to doing the installation you are not obligated to repay them.
You cannot legally tell them the neighborhood is "unsafe" as that could be considered steering. That research is a tenant responsibility prior to moving.
Wait a second... so before talking to you, they went out and bought all the cameras and spotlights and stuff???
That's pretty bad. I wouldn't pay for that at all. It's not your responsibility. If you leased the rental without these features in place and they agreed, that's not your job to spend an extra $4,000 for something extra they want. They also should have renter's insurance.
Now, if you reallllllly WANT the systems set up for future tenants, a payment plan would be a FANTASTIC idea. It's free financing from your tenants and you get to keep them when they move out.
Does your lease even ALLOW tenants to make these changes without your permission?
And no, you are not legally obligated to pay for any of this.
Before you decide to fork over any money for this ask yourself "would the idea of 16 cameras and spotlights all around the house be a selling point for future tenants or scare the heck out of them?"
What does your lease say on alterations? You should have some basic language in it already. I would not pay for this alteration approved or not. You may be able to keep the system now that its installed. For now I would ignore the 1yr lease extension as they may be blowing smoke or you may not want them after 1 yr anymore. If for some crazy reason you decide on paying for the system, rent should be increased for this new amenity but again I would not pay for this. When they move out make sure to deduct for damages when they remove the system.
I would start looking for new tenants--- it is not OK to install cameras without your permission and it is definitely not OK for you to pay for them. You could install a much cheaper and effective system for a fraction of the price..
Also, why do they have 20,000 in jewlery hanging around the place.. Seems like the person that robbed them may have known about this in advance.. sounds fishy..
So their negligence should come out of your pocket?! They left a window wide open and it's all your fault?!! Now they want you to pay almost 4 grand now another $2,400 to make them feel safer?!! The answer is NO!!!!! You did not agree to this monstrosity of a security system and to the ridiculous prices it comes with,it is not your problem.There are newer wireless systems that cost like $200 to self set up and barely 50 bucks a month to monitor that they could have paid for themselves.Don't make their problems,yours!!! NO tenant is worth $2400 in lost profits per year.
I would say it depends if they are good tenants or not. Is it worth the cost to keep them for another year?
I would have them sign the lease extension before you start paying, if that's the route you take.
I would have to agree with the rest of the posts here. There is no reason you should have to pay the $3,800. The way i would view it is the installation of all that equipment most likely did some damage to your house that now you will have to get fixed when they move. Holes and screws all over your exterior walls. This was not approved, so it should not fly. Period.
It's like the insurance company, if i leave my house window open or house unlocked they have the right to refuse to pay for anything because there was no forced entry into the house. So.. Tenants fault for leaving something open, any area is a bad area with the right situation in place.
Should you? The tenant enhanced the value of your property. They are saying (or offering) to extend a year which might not happen if they feel unsafe. Maybe the system helps them feel safe. What is a vacancy realization going to cost you?
If it were me, I'd remind the tenant they aren't allowed to make changes without my permission and I did not authorize the system. However, I would also recognize the value they've added to the property and my appreciation of them as good tenants (assuming they are). I'd then offer to split the cost with them in exchange for the lease extension: 50/50% for 1-year extension, 75/25% for a 2-year extension.
Whether or not an area is "unsafe" is an opinion. Crime rates are public and the tenant should be aware of the area they are looking to rent a house in. Them blaming you for the area being unsafe is like them saying "It's raining too much. You didn't tell us it rains this much here".
Most robberies are not random. I have a friend who lives in a nice neighborhood and has been burglarized several times. The reason was because his sister was a drug addict and her and her friends did it looking for money. The likely scenario is that someone was driving by and saw the open window or someone they know did it. I'm not saying this is the case for sure, but it being random is a less likely explanation.
Getting robbed (especially if it's never happened to them before) can be a scary thing. People don't like to be in places with negative memories. The camera/spotlight purchase was probably an emotional decision (because they have kids), but the odds of them staying are not likely especially since they are renting and it's easy to move. It's likely in the next month or so they are going to realize they don't really want to be there and they will move at the end of the lease no matter what you do.
The camera and spotlight system are going to be more of a deterrent to future renters than anything else. I personally would not rent a house that had 16 cameras and spotlights all over the place. I would assume they are there for a reason, and not a good reason.
I would politely decline to pay for it and say they are more than welcome to take the system with them when they leave. Also remind them (politely and in writing) that if there is any damage caused by the installation/removal of the system that they will be responsible for those damages.
Just keep in mind, if you pay for it, you are responsible for it. Repairs and technical support will be on you and that's not a responsibility you want.
Here is a good question to shoot back to tenants: how would a camera system and spotlights prevented intruders from entering an unlocked bedroom window during the last break-in. Even a top of the line security system would not work if their window was unlocked since the house would not arm with an open window. In other words, all of the security systems of the world except for a armed guard would not have prevented their break-in due to their negligence leaving the house unlocked. Ventura is a city no? And cities are inherently urban and more prone to crime. People should understand that no part of a city is immune to crime and that basic precautions needs to be taken to secure their belongings. Your tenant did not take basic precautions and did not have renters insurance that would have returned the full value of their belongings lost in the burglary. So once you highlight that neither the cameras nor an alarm system would have prevented that same burglary due to their negligence, you are not obligated to pay for an unauthorized alteration that will not provide any additional protection for their home. They would have paid less money buying renters insurance and leaving the from door open 24/7. Also, be sure to notify them that they are responsible for removing all alterations prior to move-out, or you will have to have someone remove them and deduct from their deposit. I don't want my rentals looking like a state penitentiary and neither do you. Feel free to take a more sympathetic tone when explaining to them your position, but the basic precautions of locking windows while away from the home are true regardless of if you live in rural county or inside city-lines. Burglars target all types of neighborhoods.
Should you? The tenant enhanced the value of your property. They are saying (or offering) to extend a year which might not happen if they feel unsafe. Maybe the system helps them feel safe. What is a vacancy realization going to cost you?
If it were me, I'd remind the tenant they aren't allowed to make changes without my permission and I did not authorize the system. However, I would also recognize the value they've added to the property and my appreciation of them as good tenants (assuming they are). I'd then offer to split the cost with them in exchange for the lease extension: 50/50% for 1-year extension, 75/25% for a 2-year extension.
Jim.
I agree with most of the previous answers: I would not pay for this.
That said, I'm particularly skeptical of the suggestion to lock in rogue tenants like this for 2 more years! They almost certainly ignored provisions in the lease by installing the system without permission, so they have established a track record of ignoring the rules. Locking them into a longterm lease could end up costing you dearly!
That’s very disappointing. We really wanted to work with you and I thought our offer was more than fair and would be of great benefit to you.
At this point, I am going to speak with our attorneys as to what our legal rights are as tenants w/r/t to the crime and non-disclosure of a high-crime area, as well as the black mold and our exposure to it and our resulting damages. I am also going to hire a professional mold company to come in and test what is left after you tried to eradicate it. I also believe that you lender needs to be notified as well as the mold may impact their collateral.
As the repair work does not qualify as an emergency under California rental law, we will defer the repairs until after I have accomplished the aforementioned. You do not have our permission to enter our home without our consent and we will have the house alarmed for police response should you or anyone else attempt to enter while we are not here.
We also are now reconsidering our Right of First refusal to extend the term for an additional year. We will let you know what our decision is within the appropriate timeframe as set forth in our lease agreement.
In the event you wish to reconsider, please let us know, otherwise, we plan to see an attorney next week upon our return from Florida.
A sprinkler in the garden was broken and shooting straight up into the attic for at least 4 months mold was on the drywall in a small part of the wall. The tenant notified me and I was out the next day. I cut out the drywall removed insulation and spayed the damp area with bleach. I do not think it is black mold and to cover my bases I sent in a sample to be tested.
Get this tenant out of your property. They are high maintenance to say the least. At this point document everything and follow the law to the the "T". Use certified mailings as well. Talk to a lawyer asap. Can you evict for breach of contract with the installation of the security system? At this point stop talking to him until you get your ducks in a row. Good luck.
This is hilarious. They neglected to secure their property, they had this system installed without permission, they are responsible for any consequences.
Locks don't make homes any safer, they just keep honest people honest. If people really want to get in they can. But leaving the window open is just silly. Dollars to donuts says its someone from the neighborhood or one of their friends.
This is insane... How do people with 20k worth of jewelry leave windows open? Even in a safe neighborhood I wouldn't leave a window open if that's what was in my house.
Not sure what to contribute but sub'ed to see what advice others offer!
Nope, I wouldn't pay it. I wouldn't let them take all of the stuff down because there's going to be damage of course. That's a bad deal. I'd tell them they are lucky they aren't getting kicked out for pulling that stunt and when they do move out the equipment stays, unless they want to pay to have all the holes filled from mounting everything