Renting to Tenants with Pitbulls
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I just want to take the opportunity to point out a big problem with this argument. This assumes that all pit bulls/aggressive breed dogs are bad; and that just isn't the case. This is my pit/lab mix that I've had since she was 10 weeks old that I got from a rescue. She has bit 0 people. I've known 5 lb yorkies that bit more people and act more aggressive than she is. Labeling dogs based on breed is no different than making racist comments against certain ethnic groups as far as I'm concerned.
I understand the insurance companies don't necessarily share the same view, but it's in part because so many people generalize and label 'aggressive breeds' as bad, when it isn't as simple as that. Require to see your tenants proof of dog training courses or Canine Good Citizen completion certificates and keep them on file. This should alleviate any concerns for poor and dangerous behavior.
Dogs are covered under my liability policy.
I allow dogs because I tend to like families with dogs. More and more families rent, and a kid oughta have an opportunity to grow up caring for a dog.
However, we do check references carefully on the dogs. And instead of charging an up-front pet deposit like I used to (usually $300-350), we now do $25/mo per small dog and $40/mo per large dog in pet rent. If the tenant stays for years, the dog does put wear & tear on the house, and that tends to compensate me better for it.
@Ryan Ahlgrim most owner/landlord policies will cover dogs, but not vicious breeds, always check. I had two insurance companies here in orlando that do offer pet policies for tenants, apngood to do some more research. My bow ra so t lay for it, but a easy we offer the information to the tenants, but we do require renters insurance on every tenant.
The only time it's funky is when the tenants dog is a "service" dog!! I will be going with a group of PM's to Washington in May to fight for better, clearer legislation with regard to the service, comfort and assistance animal issue
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That's a great question, Ryan. The answer depends on your local market. I agree that I would rather not deal with the potential of having that liability come true. However, if your your property is located in a high dog ownership area, by not allowing dogs you limit yourself in that market. So it always comes back to how much risk are you willing to take, and what are the consequences if it does or doesn't happen.
Risk is something that can be managed. Don't over complicate it. Buy the amount of coverage that makes you sleep at night and pass cost along to tenant. Boom!
I'm not sure if it is a state to state difference, but I can attest that dog claims are covered by a renters policy's liability. Some carriers will exclude certain breeds, but a good broker should be able to track something down. Just be sure that you (or your LLC) are named as an additional insured. This will ensure that you receive notification before the policy lapses or if they try to cancel coverage.
Why you would rent to a tenant with a dog:
1. They may just lie and sneak a dog in there anyway. You may still be on the hook if it bites someone.
2. Chances are they will be a long term tenant as properties that allow dogs are rare.
3. Pet rent is all the rage in southern CA. Posh apartments will charge an extra $50-100 per pet per month plus an additional $250-500 on the deposit.
Ryan, about half of American households have a pet. If you choose a "no pets" policy for your properties, you are limiting your pool of potential tenants by half right out of the gates - before any actual screening has been done.
Your lease should require your tenants to hold general liability insurance on their renters policy at a reasonable coverage amount, and they should name you as a certificate holder. Your homeowners insurance may have exclusions for specific breeds, so there is nothing you can really do about that to my knowledge. Just don't let those breeds live in your home.
I appreciate everyone's response but I think the main question might have been missed. Even if the tenant is carrying insurance, a bite victim can still sue a landlord for allowing them to have the animal at the property. At that point it doesn't matter if the tenant has insurance, the victim is going after you directly. If that's possible, how do you actually protect yourself from that liability? If you have insurance, there's a pretty good chance they'll exclude any damages caused by aggressive breeds like pitbulls. Additionally, if you use an umbrella policy to pay for damages it's likely your insurance company will drop you soon after and you'll have a very difficult time finding a new provider.
@Ryan Ahlgrim I would still look into an umbrella policy (either for yourself or your business - there are two types) to see if you can be covered for this.
Another option to look into is Lloyd's has a policy where landlords can cover their tenants as if it were renter's insurance. REI Guard out of Kansas City markets this policy - it's about $8 per month and essentially steps in when tenants don't have a renter's policy. I don't know the specific facts but that policy may cover you instead.
Ryan Ahlgrim The reason you will never get a clear answer is most if not all investors that allow pitbulls are doing nothing more than burying their head in the sand.
You are correct you can be sued directly. You can get listed as additional insured on the renters renter insurance, but you are placing your fortunes in the hands of a tenant. Meaning you are at risk for them dropping or amending the coverage.
Why do you think large property managers just do not accept pit bulls? It's because they know how to quantify risk. And I don't care how good the tenant looks with a pit bull. It's an unprofitable tenant when total cost of risk is calculated.
Derek Lacy I think you nailed it. Thanks for jumping in.
I noticed you're from Indy. I grew up in Greenwood. Longtime Pacer fan but I'm pretty ticked off they beat the Thunder last night.
@Ryan Ahlgrim Our office is at Main and Madison, been here since '54, so I'm sure you drove by once or twice. I grew up in Greenwood until about 1990, parents moved to Franklin. Since I was only 10 I figured I better go with them. Actually Old Town is in the middle of a facade grant, so if/when you come back it will feel very different from last time.
Also, one thing I wanted to add to the top. The umbrella policy will have the EXACT same exclusions as the underlying liability, so you cannot buy a policy that excludes animal liability and then buy an umbrella and it's magically covered.
I'm not trying to be mean to any dog with my post, but in the words of our President, it's not personal it's business. I'm not saying pitbulls cannot be sweet dogs, but there is a reason actuaries at insurance companies think they are too risky, it's not because they never do anything. In fact, the number one liability payout on personal property policies is.... Dog Bite claims. WAY more than slip and falls, etc. etc. etc.
For my tenants I require tenant liability, but I never bet on it being in-force at the time of claim.
Last item, since REI Guard was mentioned. Has anyone ever read their form? I know many clients that were deciding between us and REI Guard have asked to review their form, but I don't believe it's ever been shared, so what is covered/excluded on liability, I could not state with any certainty, but if you are an investor purchasing an insurance policy, why are you not demanding a copy of every form that will be in your insurance policy? Just to make sure they don't sneak in a day that ends with "Y" exclusion or other exclusion that would basically limit coverage to such a small degree. If REI Guard does release the coverage form to insureds, I apologize, I know in the past it was guarded and not released, hopefully that has since changed.
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We rent to tenants with pets with pet rent and a pet deposit, but we don't allow dangerous breeds. So my two cents would be no.
I rent to people with dogs, but do not rent to people with dogs that are on my insurance's restricted list, and I let people know in my ads. Certain breeds are just not allowed, unfortunately. However, service dogs, no matter what breed, seem to be allowed by statute. It appears to be a judgment call. I still like to meet all prospective dogs and have them fill out a pet questionnaire.
We only do animals on case by case for one property where it is suited to dogs. It really can get you some nice tenants who have a hard time finding someplace. I do require liability for dogs. I know there is still liability for us if someone sues but I try to minimize that risk. I recently received several calls on pit bulls from renters and I had to wonder why do they want to make their lives harder. Despite the fact my brother has two pit bulls I would not rent to someone with them. They are just too aggressive in general. One of my brothers dogs is blind and he is sweet but I still would be concerned if a kid tripped over him would he snap.
I take dogs in my rentals, but liability in my state is on the renter, not the landlord.
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There are a ton of threads here about "pit bulls" but ultimately, like Al said above, it's all about managing risk. State Farm will insure all breeds. And any dog can bite. Some landlords charge pet rent to offset risk. You can ask to be listed on the renter's insurance so if they stop or change their policy, you'll know.
The most aggressive dogs I've ever encountered are little yippee dogs with Napoleon complexes (sorry small dog breed owners, just my experience). We all know pit bulls get a bad rap and I will refrain from going on about that. I have 2 pit mixes and well they will lick you to death. Anyways, just look into an umbrella liability policy. ANY dog can bite and cause harm. If you are overall uncomfortable with renting to dog owners, then don't. If you like dogs, take dog owners on a case by case basis. We love dogs and encourage dog ownership especially rescue dogs. As landlords, we understand the added wear and tear, have adequate insurance, and thoroughly screen our tenants. We know how hard it is to rent with big dogs and bully breeds and we personally are willing to take the risk because we are dog lovers and see what an epidemic there is in regards to shelter animals. Feel free to PM with any questions!
I just want to take the opportunity to point out a big problem with this argument. This assumes that all pit bulls/aggressive breed dogs are bad; and that just isn't the case. This is my pit/lab mix that I've had since she was 10 weeks old that I got from a rescue. She has bit 0 people. I've known 5 lb yorkies that bit more people and act more aggressive than she is. Labeling dogs based on breed is no different than making racist comments against certain ethnic groups as far as I'm concerned.
I understand the insurance companies don't necessarily share the same view, but it's in part because so many people generalize and label 'aggressive breeds' as bad, when it isn't as simple as that. Require to see your tenants proof of dog training courses or Canine Good Citizen completion certificates and keep them on file. This should alleviate any concerns for poor and dangerous behavior.
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Thank you
Something to think about, when you hear the argument that small dogs bite more often than large dogs:
The small dog is going to cause a scratch when it decides to bite, or a small injury. A rottweiler or pitbull is going to cause real damage.
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If someone wants to sue, though, @Randall Brown, they can simply say that the small dog caused great amounts of personal anguish, PTSD, etc. It doesn't always boil down to the physical wound.
And that's a big part of the problem, thinking that just because a small dog can't do as much physical damage that it's okay and even acceptable (and even worse, funny). A biting dog is not cute regardless of it's tiny size and squeaky bark.
Finally, many places are moving away from breed-specific laws/discrimination and simply putting it to cover *all* dogs, which is how it should be. There is one county in Maryland that still doesn't allow anyone to have Pit Bulls. They take your dog even if it's done nothing but simply been spotted in that county. Nevermind that many times the dog just "looks" like a Pit, but isn't. Goes back to how inaccurate are those statistics when people can't correctly identify a dog.
I like Shaun's comment about requiring paperwork showing the dog has done obedience training and/or successfully earned the Canine Good Citizen (CGC) title from AKC (which isn't difficult at all, even the advanced CGC title).
After awhile the landlord finds out the reasoning why so many impoverished families have pits. Here in SC it is to keep family services and the police out. Neither here will enter with pit inside house unless signed warrant...but then again they threw away 15,000 bench warrants due to ratio of arrests were too many impoverished folks and now aclu requires magistrates to go to school to keep poor folks warrants to a ratio vs people that can afford criminal acts. https://www.wspa.com/news/25k-magistrate-bench-warrants-to-be-recalled-in-the-upstate/1009020370
When I was getting Insurance quotes one of the insurance agent explained it well. He said that pit bulls are not more likely to bite you than small dogs. However, if a small dog bites you you get stitches. With the jaw strength that a pitbull has it will cause nerve damage and tendon damage and those claims go to the millions. It’s purely about money. I have had several good applicants that have pit bulls and I am trying to find an insurance that will except them. So far my experience has been that I would rather have the pit bull than the rest of the sketchy people to come in. Dogs are better than people in most cases.