Is it him or is it me?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Is it him or is it me?

Dustin Hughes
Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 3 votes
Brief background: I still own rental property and relocated from TX to AL in 2017. I decided to rent a house for a year to decide where I’d prefer to live long term instead of rushing. Straight to the point: I am buying my next home end of Feb and my current lease is not over until end of Apr. I have notified the owner the the house could be ready for a new tenant early as Mid-March. His response: “I prefer to hold you to the end of the agreed upon lease and have no intention to find another tenant early.” My question to the Bigger Pockets members: as a landlord myself, I cannot see any advantages. What am I missing here? Any idea why the owner would show no interest in another placement? (He is not likely to move in—this is one of at least two rentals I know he owns) Just seems like he had the advantage of early warning. I guess I can say my conscience is clear for trying—but that’s why I’m posting this—I want to make sure I am not missing some perspective and it’s kind of driving me crazy. Thanks for any useful feedback.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
8y

Possibilities:

1. It is easier to find tenants in May than March. I know it's that way where my properties are.

2. There's no advantage to the landlord to have to get the place ready earlier in the process. Every turnover costs money and energy, such that a turnover every 12 months is better than every 10 months.

3. He plans his vacancies/possible vacancies in some orderly fashion and thus may already be working on other vacancies in March. We try to stagger our lease end dates for this very reason (within the parameters of summer) so that everything doesn't empty at once. 

4. He's bitter that you're leaving.

5. The timing is inconvenient to him for some other reason - vacation, etc.

In any case, you asked why the owner would show no interest in another placement - but he's going to have to place a tenant anyway, whether it's mid-March or the beginning of May. Personally, if you were leaving anyway, and had paid March in full and had given proper notice such that it could start to be advertised just before you left, I would probably be inclined to give it a try, but your rationale is really one to your advantage than to the landlord's advantage. You can turn it around, if you were in the shoes, and change some of the dates and times around, and see how it would suck for you if the situation were reversed. 

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  • Kyle J.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    8y

    It sounds like your landlord is saying he'd prefer that you honor the one year lease you both agreed to and doesn't want to have to try and re-rent it before that period of time is up. 

    1Reply
  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    Hi @Dustin Hughes,

    Couple points. 

    1) Mid march is wishy-washy and is not a notice that you are vacating. A notice has a specific date, expecting him to start looking when you have not provided the proper notice is you.

    2) Give him notice within the confines of your lease. Once done it is most likely on him to attempt to find a tenant (your lease and laws will dictate). If he does, then you are able to leave early, if not you have to pay until the end of the lease (commonly again your lease and law dictates. That will be on him to find someone or at least prove they reasonably tried to find someone.

    3) If you break your lease early it is on him to try and mitigate his damages by replacing you, however if he cannot then you are on the hook until your lease ends. You are looking at a month and a half of rent.

    Good luck I hope it works out. 

    3Reply
  • Ryan Dossey
    Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    Yeah you will be on the hook for the full amount/time frame of the lease. I would ASK him if you can help him find another tenant to replace you so you can move sooner. However, given your initial interaction.. I would not hold my breathe. 

    0Reply
  • Keith N.Pro Member
    Investor · Ottawa, IL · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 34 votes
    8y

    Did you make it clear that you intend to meet your obligations and pay rent through the end of the lease term if he doesn't find a suitable tenant before then?  The only reason I could see for his reply is that he's worried that you intend to break the lease and he'll be without rental income if he doesn't find someone by then.  Every landlord I know loves getting as much notice as possible that a tenant will be leaving.

    Good luck with it!

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  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    The above points are great. I'd like to add that it gets complicated easily dealing with a tenant moving out early, then the landlord has to come in and do whatever is needed to get it rent-ready, and *then* look for another tenant. I mean, I guess some landlords will try to show a unit when it's still occupied, but I don't think that's setting anyone up for success. Needed repairs can be hidden until the unit is empty. Then you two are arguing about security deposits and the like.

    I suggest you budget yourself to potentially make a rental payment as well as a first mortgage payment for a month. At least your lease isn't over until several more months from now.

    Send in your official, written notice to vacate that states you will be vacated and returning the keys by whatever day the lease states that it ends....I'm guessing 30 April 2018.

    1Reply
  • Dustin Hughes
    OP
    Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    Yes, I made it crystal clear I was prepared to cover the full term of the lease. I simply wanted to communicate the availability and discover his willingness to release me early if he finds another tenant. And yes, I gave specific dates—just said mid-March on this forum to explain it is earlier than later. To those who responded that I am still on the hook—did you actually read the whole post?! What part led you to believe I had any alternative intentions? (Gee, are all landlords so scared—maybe this is the problem?) The question is why he might not have any interest in early replacement! There is no extra money in it for him. I’m leaving anyway. So what am I missing? I am looking for a legitimate business reason—not this crap about all tenants are trying to screw you out of your money and leave you hanging. Now that I think about it—he kind of has this attitude...he’s probably just scared. Too bad...so sad....pathetic actually. Guess you cannot reason logic with some folks. It’s not like he owes me—actually, I owe him regardless, and we are back to my simple question: can anyone give me a legit reason why he would not “want” to let me out early?
    0Reply
  • Ray Harrell
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
    8y

    Also, if he happens to take you to court, he has to show that he made a diligent effort to re-rent the unit, and not just leave it vacant and ride out the rest of your lease. I don't know how they define "diligent" though. Is subleasing an option for you?

    0Reply
  • Eric James
    Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    How much is your monthly rent? Just pay it out.

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    Not sure why you're taking the responses so personally, @Dustin Hughes. No one was calling you a bad tenant or anything. You said you're a landlord yourself, so I would guess that you can see exactly why he'd prefer not to deal with finding a new tenant early. The advantage is he doesn't have to deal with vacancy before the lease is over. That is the advantage. 

    If I have a tenant whose lease is not over yet, but they want to leave, I do not want to deal with it. Even if the tenant does the work of finding a tenant, I still have to vet that tenant myself. I then still have to get the unit rent-ready myself. And some/many people can easily be turned off by viewing an already occupied unit. Your landlord might prefer to show his units when they are truly empty and deemed by him to be rent-ready. Adding you to the mix of such agreements is not his idea of advantageous.

    I know it's not what you want to hear, but that is likely your answer. And even if you don't agree, he has given you his answer. You don't have much time left on your lease. It's not that big of a deal to be upset he doesn't let you out early.

    4Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    From the info provided I think that the landlord thinks you are trying to get out of your lease early and he prefers to have you paying for your entire lease term.  Sounds like a miscommunication.

    1Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    "why he would not “want” to let me out early?"

    You are asking the wrong question. The right question is why would he want to let you out early. He, like many landlords, is probably lazy. He has a tenant till a specific point in time and has zero motivation to work to find a new tenant before that time. You see a advantage in this for him, he does not. He may actually have other plans for the unit at the end of your lease or maybe not certain of his plans and is simply drawing out the time to decide.

    Keep on guessing, the reasons may be endless.

    If you want to motivate him find a replacement tenant that is qualified and willing to move into the unit as is.

    3Reply
  • Chang Pan
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2017 · 32 posts · 12 votes
    8y
    My guess - the landlord doesn’t see any benefits to him- he still gets the same amount of money if he allows a new tenant while you get out early. How about you offer half a month’s rent as an incentive if he does allow you to leave early when he gets a new tenant ? In that way, both of you have some benefits- you save one month rent and he gets half a month extra.
    2Reply
  • Andrew S.
    Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    8y

    Who knows what the landlord’s motives are - it may make sense for him not to let you out early.  However, as a landlord myself,  I tend to like these situations because they can be win-win.  You leave early, he gets to make the place rent-ready and put it on the market basically on YOUR dime.  If he finds a new tenant quickly, he has a zero-vacancy transition (and you are off the hook early, so a win for both).  If he doesn’t then he has a move-in ready place on April 1.  On the other hand, if he refuses to work with you, then chances are that you will turn over the keys on the last day of the lease and he then has to make rent-ready on his own time.  I just did this with one of my rentals in December - it was the least expensive turnover I ever had ( not something I thought I’d ever say for a turnover in December...) - AND, my old tenant saved himself several months of double-payments (he too purchased a house).

    So, unless there is some other reason, I think both of you are missing out by not at least trying to work it out.

    1Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    Possibilities:

    1. It is easier to find tenants in May than March. I know it's that way where my properties are.

    2. There's no advantage to the landlord to have to get the place ready earlier in the process. Every turnover costs money and energy, such that a turnover every 12 months is better than every 10 months.

    3. He plans his vacancies/possible vacancies in some orderly fashion and thus may already be working on other vacancies in March. We try to stagger our lease end dates for this very reason (within the parameters of summer) so that everything doesn't empty at once. 

    4. He's bitter that you're leaving.

    5. The timing is inconvenient to him for some other reason - vacation, etc.

    In any case, you asked why the owner would show no interest in another placement - but he's going to have to place a tenant anyway, whether it's mid-March or the beginning of May. Personally, if you were leaving anyway, and had paid March in full and had given proper notice such that it could start to be advertised just before you left, I would probably be inclined to give it a try, but your rationale is really one to your advantage than to the landlord's advantage. You can turn it around, if you were in the shoes, and change some of the dates and times around, and see how it would suck for you if the situation were reversed. 

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    8Reply
  • Patrick Collins
    Real Estate Agent · Stoneham, MA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 26 votes
    8y

    I agree with @JD Martin in my part of the country  the difference between a mid-march move in and a May 1st move in could be anywhere in between 5-10% of rent. Far less people looking means more sporadic showings, more second guessing of rent, more second guessing of finishes/renovation level, in general just a lot more effort. He also may be seeking a higher number after the next turnover and his best chances for that are likely in the Summer market. In general I try not to think for other people in this business though, I only know what I'm thinking.

    If it were me I would make the effort to rent it in the interim with the understanding on your part that you may be responsible for the remainder of the lease.  

    1Reply
  • Ted Kuhlmann
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 69 votes
    8y
    JD Martin just nailed this conversation with that post. Big “like” for your post man. He hit on all the points of why you’re getting pushback from the owner. As a landlord and a broker, I can vouch that 5/1 is a muuuuuuuch easier start date to find a tenant than 3/15. That has to be playing in the mind of your landlord for sure here. Sounds like the conversation between you/landlord is just beginning so keep it going and see what can be done on both ends to make the other happy. I’m sure if you work with him to facilitate the transition he’d be open to compromise with something. At the end of the day, you are the one breaking the lease early so the burden falls on you to make it right here. Go back and offer up some ideas of how to make him content with the situation. There’s always a middle ground. Good luck
    4Reply
  • John Woodrich
    Flipper/Rehabber · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Hughes:

    Yes, I made it crystal clear I was prepared to cover the full term of the lease. I simply wanted to communicate the availability and discover his willingness to release me early if he finds another tenant. And yes, I gave specific dates—just said mid-March on this forum to explain it is earlier than later.

    To those who responded that I am still on the hook—did you actually read the whole post?!
    What part led you to believe I had any alternative intentions? (Gee, are all landlords so scared—maybe this is the problem?)

    The question is why he might not have any interest in early replacement! There is no extra money in it for him. I’m leaving anyway. So what am I missing? I am looking for a legitimate business reason—not this crap about all tenants are trying to screw you out of your money and leave you hanging. Now that I think about it—he kind of has this attitude...he’s probably just scared.

    Too bad...so sad....pathetic actually. Guess you cannot reason logic with some folks. It’s not like he owes me—actually, I owe him regardless, and we are back to my simple question: can anyone give me a legit reason why he would not “want” to let me out early?

    I will ask you a question then - why would he want to let you out early?  Seems rather obvious why he would want you to honor your lease.  Here are some reasons:

    1. You are paying and said you will continue to pay.  No risk for him.

    2. Why would he want to run over there now and get work completed when he he can defer another month and plan it out?

    3. In our location you don't want to find a tenant that time of year and many people don't want to move during the school year if they have kids.  If makes you honor your lease this can push him closer to spring summer if that matters in your area.

    4. Lastly and the most obvious reason - there is nothing in it for him to let you out early!

    Now get rid of your ATTITUDE towards people who are commenting on here to help you!!!

    0Reply
  • Weston Harding
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 179 posts · 65 votes
    8y

    @Dustin Hughes Thanks for starting the thread! Fellow Texan myself, but currently living and working in Chicago. I am not as familiar with landlord tenant laws in your state or county but in Chicago we have a RTLO which spells out obligations on both parties. 

    With that being said, why the owner would not want this...? March is not the worst time to locate a tenant, the worst of the rental market is starting to get behind us. One reason, he/she may not like this is if they have to pay an agent commission to find a new tenant. Which is something you could help work out with them. Could also just be they just don't want the hassle of a new tenant and the unknown of what that might be. Especially if you are a good tenant, they do not want to loose you :)

    But back to laws, in Chicago a landlord must allow for you to sublet you're apartment as long as the occupant is qualified. a sublet would take over the remaining months of the lease. An ideal scenario would be a re-let, this means a new lease would start that does not include you in it. bottom line, tenants have rights. 

    @Nicole A. I have to disagree about only leasing units that are vacate and maybe this is where our market differs. In Chicago we start leasing out units 30-60 days before the current tenant moves out. Having a vacancy can hurt your cash flow, especially anyone who maybe a new investor and has not built up capitol to help with rent losses etc. 

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    8y

    @Dustin Hughes when I have had tenants present this situation, I tell them if I am able to rent it early that I will return their pro-rated portion of the rent. I end up with zero vacancy costs and the tenant gets a few dollars back. It encourages tenants to work with me on getting a new tenant in. Good for everyone in my opinion.

    Just be aware from a legal standpoint that if you have paid rent through the end of April, even if you have vacated the property, he cannot move in another tenant without your permission and giving you a refund on pro-rated rent. 

    As others have theorized, your landlord probably doesn't want to bother trying to rent your property any earlier than he has to. You can try to make a deal with him, but if he holds firm, I would just hold on to my key. Make sure he isn't changing locks or placing a new tenant before your time is up. The point is if you are paid up through the end of April, it is legally yours, even if you vacate.

    1Reply
  • Frank S.
    Specialist · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 870 posts · 345 votes
    8y

    Imagine if he had asked you to move out in December because he has a different tenant.  What would you say? The lease protects both. 

    Also, this will change the rental turnover to March.  That may be an issue.  

    Sublease yourself,as allowed by the lease, or pay the empty months. 

    Good luck 

    1Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Weston Harding Yeah, I suppose there is no concrete right answer, but what you find works for you.

    I personally am not typically a fan of trying to rent a unit while it's still occupied for the following reasons:

    • Furniture and belongings can make it difficult to fully determine how much work is required to get the unit rent ready.
    • You have to deal with working a schedule around an extra person (the tenant). And if they allow you in without them being there, they might conveniently later complain that something went missing.
    • Numbers when purchasing the property should factor in vacancy, or otherwise it perhaps should not be a deal.

    These are 3 big reasons I think of at the moment, but there might be more that slipped my mind at the moment. Whatever works for you, but that's my thinking.

    0Reply
  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    sounds like simple miscommunication.

    From your post, the way it reads does make it sound like you're at least feeling out the possibility of leaving early.  Since landlords have this happen all the time, it's not unreasonable for him to be firm on ensuring commitments. Later in this thread you called him pathetic, and made other comments that pretty much cost you any credibility and based on his responses you've provided they seem reasonable. You asked for any reason he would not want you to leave early (further confirming your landlords suspicion that you DO want to leave early, albeit verbally deny) and there are plenty of reasons, many listed in this thread, many are obvious to landlords of which you are one yourself.

    so to answer the question in the title: I think it's you.

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    2Reply
  • William Tombs
    Rental Property Investor · Oak Ridge, TN · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    This is always a fun situation.  Legally he doesn't have to find a new tenant or let you out of the lease, and you are still on the hook for the money until your lease expires.  

    My best suggestion is that you (with permission) market the place yourself.  Once you find a someone who will qualify to rent there, send them to your landlord.  I know that I am much more likely to be amiable when someone brings me a problem as well as a solution, rather than just reporting an issue.  

    Hope this helps! 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Actually... in Texas the landlord does have to make an effort to rent the property. 

    Give the notice as it is required in your lease.

    Keep any proof you have of him not attempting to re-rent the property.

    0Reply
  • Toshia Booker-Blakeley
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 8 votes
    8y

    If your lease allows maybe you can try and sublease. Technically the date of lease termination is the date adhered to unless proper notice is given on both parties side. If you have paid a security deposit and your state or local law allows, maybe he may also accept that to help in lieu of rent(s) for month missing. Hope this helps :-)

    0Reply
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