Rental Property Investor · NY MA CT VT MT, MO · Member since 2015 · 200 posts · 116 votes
She's a pretty great tenant other than the fact that she didn't disclose she had a dog. NOt only a dog but a Pitbull, who is on my insurance co's list of dogs they won't insure.
She's also 6 months pregnant (the tenant) and I don't want her to move. The dog is SUPER sweet, of course, but i cannot take a chance on something happening with the dog.
Looking for some kind of liability insurance she can obtain that will cover us from any twists, keeping in mind that if a child got bit in the face, even accidentally by a confused dog, the lifetime cost a jury might award would be in the millions, I'm sure.
Any Ideas?
I also have not been requiring tenant insurance, more particularly pet insurance-- could that be a game changer? My manager has been charging a $250 flat non refundable pet fee, which seems sort of useless, in fact may even make a tenant feel like they've "paid in advance for any damage, so why be astute about animal's behavior?" Wouldn't it be better to just require them to pay for insurance to cover cat pee in carpet? How the ins company determines whether the current pet is at fault, I don't know.
Most landlords have a knee jerk reaction to evict the dog and the tenant . I have tenants with pits . I have found they know they can’t just go anywhere to rent because of the stigma surrounding the breed . As a result what appears to be a liability to the landlord can be an asset by keeping the tenant put !
1. The tenant to provide a copy of the pet's vaccination records, medical history, and vet's name/contact information. Request that the vet provide a letter of recommendation for the pet based on the pet's temperament, training, and behavior.
2. Require the tenant to have renter's insurance; if the dog has never bitten anyone, some insurance providers like State Farm, Allstate, Liberty Mutual, and Nationwide (this changes all the time) do not have breed restrictions.
3. Collect non-refundable pet deposit.
4. Have the tenant execute a hold harmless agreement whereby she assumes complete liability for the actions of the pet.
If all this is completed, then I would allow the pet to stay but require the pet be on leash at all times outside the unit and that the dog be restricted from other areas as well (children's play area, etc.).
Your concerns are real when it comes to liability: "Dog bites accounted for more than $400 million in homeowners' insurance liability claims in 2010 -- roughly a third of total liability claims." I've known some pit bulls who were bigger softies than my Lab. But I can't predict what people will do much less pets - so it's best to show that you did everything possible to mitigate damages.
WOW, @Patricia Steiner, thanks so much for the comprehensive plan!! I have been pretty non committal about it, because I don’t want her to move, especially in her condition...
You’ve given me inspiration and I’ll get after it!
Most landlords have a knee jerk reaction to evict the dog and the tenant . I have tenants with pits . I have found they know they can’t just go anywhere to rent because of the stigma surrounding the breed . As a result what appears to be a liability to the landlord can be an asset by keeping the tenant put !
@Dennis M., ever been sued? I have, 2x, by people whose lawyers saw someone with a few buildings and figured they have lots of money. We won both times, easily, but not without 2-3 years of waiting for the next letter from ambulance chaser lawyers, depositions, travel to the out of state property to testify, always with a niggling feeling in the back of your mind.
Plaintiff doesn’t just go after the tenant with the dog who has nothing. They go after everybody who has any connection with that tenant. Me, property manager, the neighbor who opened a gate by accident.
Can’t imagine how that would be without insurance, which in each case paid over $100k in our legal fees.
I have a pit mix myself, sweetest dog in the world, but nervous around kids. I’m lucky to have insurance for that liability... that company doesn’t do investor buildings.
I’ve seen two different occasions where children were playing with dogs, a lab and a schnauzer, and the dogs were having fun until they got over excited and confused. Kid puts their face too close , dog jumps and bit them in the face. Neither more than a small scar, but both could have been disfigured: think about how a jury comes up with a settlement: a future life of unattainable glory because of that split second. Child can’t be a CEO, so parents sue because they lose $100 million a year for a 20 year career and child may end up, you guessed it, renting. I might be glib and this seems ridiculous, but that’s exactly how it happens.
I love insurance and I’ll err on the side of caution, thank you.
@Dennis M., ever been sued? I have, 2x, by people whose lawyers saw someone with a few buildings and figured they have lots of money. We won both times, easily, but not without 2-3 years of waiting for the next letter from ambulance chaser lawyers, depositions, travel to the out of state property to testify, always with a niggling feeling in the back of your mind.
Plaintiff doesn’t just go after the tenant with the dog who has nothing. They go after everybody who has any connection with that tenant. Me, property manager, the neighbor who opened a gate by accident.
Can’t imagine how that would be without insurance, which in each case paid over $100k in our legal fees.
I have a pit mix myself, sweetest dog in the world, but nervous around kids. I’m lucky to have insurance for that liability... that company doesn’t do investor buildings.
I’ve seen two different occasions where children were playing with dogs, a lab and a schnauzer, and the dogs were having fun until they got over excited and confused. Kid puts their face too close , dog jumps and bit them in the face. Neither more than a small scar, but both could have been disfigured: think about how a jury comes up with a settlement: a future life of unattainable glory because of that split second. Child can’t be a CEO, so parents sue because they lose $100 million a year for a 20 year career and child may end up, you guessed it, renting. I might be glib and this seems ridiculous, but that’s exactly how it happens.
I love insurance and I’ll err on the side of caution, thank you.
Okay that’s understandable but why ask if you already knew the answer for yourself . Whatever
You should require all your tenants to carry their own renters insurance. It can be as little as $10-12 a month cost to them and let’s you sleep at night.
State Farm doesn’t discriminate against dog breeds so a renters policy with them will cover the liability for a pitbull.
You should require all your tenants to carry their own renters insurance. It can be as little as $10-12 a month cost to them and let’s you sleep at night.
State Farm doesn’t discriminate against dog breeds so a renters policy with them will cover the liability for a pitbull.
Please explain that more, what does that mean if the tenant gets their own renters insurance, compared to the insurance the landlord already has.
A renters insurance policy gives the tenant their own liability coverage. Most large apartment complexes require at least 300k of liability coverage.
It benefits you as the landlord because if their dog bites someone, they can handle it through their own policy not yours. It takes a lot of liability off of you as the landlord.
A renters insurance policy gives the tenant their own liability coverage. Most large apartment complexes require at least 300k of liability coverage.
It benefits you as the landlord because if their dog bites someone, they can handle it through their own policy not yours. It takes a lot of liability off of you as the landlord.
Thank you for the information. Has State Farm opened up their offices yet in Florida?
@Alan Brown. If you want to keep the tenant you need to change your homeowners insurance to a policy which covers pit bulls. There are companies which do insure pit bulls. Otherwise you will be personally sued if something happens and on the hook for any damages. You should also require the tenant to obtain renters insurance which covers pit bulls as well and require her to give you proof of the insurance. This will be a secondary protection.
Just because she is pregnant is not a good enough reason to keep her in my opinion. She is a liar and I would be hesitant to keep a liar in my property. If you want to keep her anyways though be sure to cover yourself with the proper insurance.
I’m not sure how much protection is offered by a renter’s policy that covers animals (I’ve never even seen a policy that covers animals, but we don’t have any so it’s not on my radar), but I imagine their policy would not cover the landlord at all. And hold harmless agreements don’t always end up in favorably in court.
I would not allow her to stay with that dog and you might have to check up on this to make sure she gets rid of it if she does stay. And if this runs into when she has her baby, that’s going to be a worse situation and will be very stressful for her (it’s her own fault, but still).
If she had the dog before she moved to your place and brought the dog with her, she is an outright liar. If she got the dog recently, maybe thinking it would protect her and the baby, she’s not the same kind of liar as it’s more a lie of omission, although still very much a lie. I would be inclined to not trust her at all if she already had the dog and I would evict for breaking the lease, with no qualms whatsoever. If she just got it, I might be more lenient but I still think the insurance will be an issue. Even if you can get landlord coverage, are you going to pass that premium increase to her? It’s an expense, a liability, and a big hassle for you for her having this dog.
Thanks, y'all, sorry I got a bid overrun at Holidays, but I do so appreciate your feedback...
@Amy Beth, I did have to sign a waiver with my insurer: they won't be liable, but I will... My agent actually suggested that I would most likely easily prevail in court, and that, if the tenant got Liability coverage for me of at least $100k, that would cover my legal expenses...none of that really gives me the warm fuzzies...
@Andrea Townsley I'll be talking to her liability insurer to find out what, if any real coverage I would get from her renter's policy... and my lawyer. It turns out she's actually due in 2 weeks... I probably will have to get her out, but I can't do it now, till she's physically strong again. It's a 3 story walk up, so she's probably got to find something easier for living with a baby anyway!
I'm afraid I have too much empathy...my wife def agrees with you guys: "we've been burned too many times by your empathy!!" she's right... STill, even good people do dumb things, and if everyone who ever told a lie was a liar forever, there wouldn't be any one left!! I once had a cat that the landlord didn't know about when I was a kid, so I guess I feel a little hypocritical! Maybe I need a therapist instead!
and @Kevin Hart, thanks for the ideas... I would like to change insurers anyway, as my agent is not terribly pleasant!
I had a tenant for over 5 years who had a couple of "dogs" and I only saw a few chihuahuas when I met repair people on the farm. Turns out he had pens for his pit bulls so they were out of sight when repairmen came and he always kept the front gate chained and locked. Travelers Insurance asked for exterior pictures of houses on my commercial policy with them and allowed him to submit pictures of the structures....which were approved and then he added it was a good thing they didn't come out because his pit bulls might bite them. Next morning my agent said evict him or my policy would be cancelled. Travelers would not allow any renters insurance policy because they had paid out over $3 million in Marion County on a pit bull bite lawsuit. Tenant refused to move (he was on a month to month) and I had to evict. This was a tenant who paid his rent early every month and rarely complained about anything unless it was a major repair. Later I found out the pits had escaped and threatened the neighboring business, so I was lucky they never bit anyone and now he's gone along with his liability.
I do want to commend you for being considerate of her pregnancy and new baby! I’ve had experiences myself that were less than ideal when in that state. I hope you get it worked out. I’d say give her three months to rectify or to find a new place.
We were mistakenly given an upstairs unit one time immediately after I had a baby (she was like two weeks old, and our fourth child so we had an 18mo also, and the concrete stairs gave me the absolute worst anxiety) so I agree that a three story walkup won’t be agreeable to her after a few months and she might want to leave anyway.