Quick evictions in the middle of the winter aren't a critical part of my business model. I've found evictions to be a small (and unfortunate) part of running rental properties personally; I've only had a handful over many years of owning and managing. Problem tenants almost always agree to leave prior to actually having to be evicted in my experience, as the feeling is usually mutual. So although the trend of evictions taking longer and costing more nationwide isn't necessarily something I agree 100% with, it's not something I'm losing any sleep over or getting all butt-hurt and angry about either. Get rid of problem tenants in the summer months. Not that big of a deal.
I find it funny when people come on here to ask which state has the best laws for landlords, as if they're only going to invest in landlord-friendly states. Seriously how many evictions are you people planning on doing? If a 30-day eviction vs. a 60-day eviction is that critical to running your rental business, you're doing something wrong in my opinion.
Meanwhile, as @Russell Brazil deftly pointed out, the most profitable states to own rentals in are actually more typically tenant-friendly states, because those tend to be the highest appreciation markets. So it might actually make more sense to ask which states are the most tenant-friendly, and invest there. Screening well and avoiding evictions is good business in any market, and money can be made in any market regardless of landlord-tenant laws.
Updated about 1 year ago
We’re actually dealing with a problem tenant now on an unpaid rent/chronically late rent issue. Even though we can evict year round in Colorado, and could have her out now, we’re charging late fees, working on her to catch up on rent and waiting until March to give her 30 days notice of non-renewal of her monthly lease instead of doing it now just due to practical reasons: It’s much easier to find good tenants in the spring/summer. Evicting/not renewing in the winter just leads to replacing one problem tenant with another problem tenant in my experience, so even if this law passes, it will just force landlords to do what I’ve found makes the most sense business-wise anyway. No need to panic Seattle landlords.
Originally posted by @Ron Hall :
@Patrick McGrath, cant say I like that, but it's not any different than utilities not being allowed to shut off in winter.
One big difference is there are many mom and pop (smaller operations) landlords. I suspect there are not any mom and pop utility companies. When a small time LL does not get paid, it can be challenging for them to meet their expenses (pay the mortgage). That is not an issue with a utility company.
@Patrick McGrath Rent just went up dramatically.
Just to add perspective to the conversation - this is not a new thing - many cities & municipalities have bans against what is called in the landlord world as 'winter evictions' for many years. Chicago & Washington DC are a few of many such cities.
That would assume a level of empathy and objectivity which doesn't exist on the council. They lump small mom and pop landlords with huge national apartment outfits like Greystar. No differentiation at all. Late last year the Seattle council voted to require notification of any duplex or larger MF intention to sell. In this regulation, the owner must provide provide what essentially amounts to a first right of refusal to tenants, tenants union, Office of Housing etc for minimum 15 days. If one expresses interest in purchasing, they'll have an additional amount of time to furnish a pre-approval for financing. All in, the total time required for pre notice is like 45-90 days. It's crazy!
Wow. I can foresee this leading to abuse in the system and unfair practices.
Tenants may simply stop paying rent December 1st and then disappear March 1st.
Landlords are going to require perfect credit and higher security deposits.
This is unlikely to help the people it's intended to protect.
I would be raising rent to offset the likelihood of idiots squatting when it rains. Isn’t even cold in Seattle.
Oh my god!!! The sky is falling!!!! Damn socialist......communists...... libertards!!!
The headline reactionary mentality strikes again....... immediate outrage.......
Relax.... there are LOTS of states, cities and counties that don't allow evictions or shutting off utilities etc in winter..... the sheriff wont kick them out.....this is NOTHING new.
Its the fact that's its Seattle that has people all riled up..... like SF it's a common target as some liberal catastrophe that should be used as an example of all that is wrong in our country......
Relax...... its nothing new.....
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil :
It shouldn't boggle the mind. Owning rentals in high demand locations of the high demand metros is the fastest and easiest path to becoming a multimillionaire. Sure, you got to put up with some stuff you dont want to, but when your property values go up a quarter of a million dollars every 5 years, you learn to deal with it.
That is certainly not happening here in Upstate NY, yet we have a lot of the same regulatory BS coming hard and fast at us. There is absolutely no appreciation in most upstate markets, yet we are burdened by the same draconian restrictions imposed upon the downstate metropolis.
Almost no clowns left out west Peter. Come on over, the water is warm
@Dennis M. These are the type of laws that make me want to sell my California rentals, because when it comes to stupid laws California is always saying “ hold my beer and watch this.”
The left leaning commie states do offer appreciation that you won’t see in the Midwest but no one ever talks about how they are the first to get hammered in a recession . Our prices in my area by all accounts stayed about the same regardless . I suppose the case can be made for any area . I for one don’t want the government telling me how to operate my business with their hand in my back pocket
Originally posted by @Dave E. :
I have to say I’m surprised by many of the responses to this post. Part of being a landlord is accepting some responsibility for the people that live in our properties. To sit here and blame the tenants and the government is simply ridiculous. Not that they don’t do things wrong, and that there aren’t bad apples out there, but part of that is up to you. Know your market. Screen your tenants. Actually check their references. Understand the risks. Period.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that last statement before I cut the rest, know your market and understand the risks. The point is, it sure seems like, based on the changes in that market over time, the risks now outweigh the rewards, unless the rents are extremely high. And yes, they do have the right to whine a little when the local government unilaterally changes the market on people that have already done the risk/reward analysis bought in, and now the risk part of the equation has been changed on them as well. (first screening laws were changed, then deposit rules, now eviction capability). They have created the forseeable misuse of bad actors....I am guessing this doesn't hold up to the legal challenges, but I am not an attorney.
What if the council decided, for the 3 cold months every year, businesses aren't allowed to charge customers in the city. They MUST stay open though, and maintain their buildings, etc. Or, city employees may not be paid those months, but still must do the work legally for 3 months before they can move to a new job? "Well, you should of factored that in when you took the job, or opened that new business...bummer"
If any of your moron investors are running to the hills over this law (which probably won't happen anyway), better sell to me for 30 cents on the dollar. Happy to take these off terrible, awful, no good, very bad, libtard properties off of your hands. :D
As always, common sense will prevail - screen well and you won't have turnover. Professional tenants don't need a law to game the system. Good landlords/investors know how to spot these folks. Even if the law does get enacted, and someone takes advantage of it, you can STILL. PUT. A. LIEN. AGAINST. THEIR. NAME. AND. GARNISH. THEIR. WAGES. AND. SEEK. JUDGEMENT. WHICH. IS. ON. THEIR. RECORD. SO. THEY. CAN'T. DO. IT. AGAIN. Say it louder for some of the supposedly brilliant investors in the back who are too busy watching slanted TV to know better.
Round and round the world turns. Like I said, if any one of you want to make me a multi-millionaire overnight, please, just sell your properties to me. My wife and I will surely appreciate it.
Originally posted by @Dave E. :
@Patrick McGrath Illinois is the same. While I understand that you don’t want to literally throw someone out into the cold, there are certainly people who will take advantage of it.
All of Illinois?? I had no idea!
Honestly, NY can take 6 months to do an eviction. It didn't stop our rental market. So what? Cost of doing business. Large cities (w/ large economies) are still amazing places to invest.
Not sure about the whole state, but definitely cook county. This is actually a fairly common law so the people aren’t evicted when it is freezing outside.
God bless commercial real estate!....lol
A friend of mine on Facebook was asking people if he could evict based on a residential tenant doing drugs in the unit. The stuff I hear residential landlords go through amazes me.
Even in states like GA that can be more landlord tenant law friendly residential still can be a hassle. I can't even imagine the pro-tenant states. That must be a lot of hard grinding and work for the yield.
Now I do have some friends that own residential that do well but they buy A to A+ locations at higher purchase prices and usually a better tenant base to have as renters. I find right now medium to lower income tenants are doing okay in a boom economy. Once economy goes down those tenant have little to no reserves and their credit gets cut back as creditors do not want to extend credit further and take larger losses if a default occurs. Then their job hours get cut back and really get in trouble. I saw it during the last down cycle over a decade ago. I tend to like higher income areas because even renters tend to have more reserves and some assets to fall back on to get through rough patches. Not all of them but statistically the odds are in the landlord favor that the tenant can keep paying the rent.
Some of my friends that buy large apartment buildings avoid anti-business and anti-landlord states as they do not want the hassle or potential risk to the cash flow modeling with less than favorable residential tenant laws that might even get worse.
Originally posted by @Greg M. :Originally posted by @Russ B.:
Next, they'll be wondering why you need perfect credit to get in anywhere..
Next, Seattle moves to ban credit checks. Councilmember Kshama Sawant states that people who fail to pay their bills have a disproportionately harder time finding landlords willing to rent to them. Under the new law, the first person who calls 'dibs' is entitled to the place. However, if the first person to calls dibs is a white male, the landlords is allowed to extend the dibs calling process until a more deserving person, such as a woman or person of color can call dibs.
The sad thing is I know you’re being satirical, but at the back of my mind I’m worried you’re serious. Because, I wouldn’t put it past them. The world is officially starting to lose its collective mind.
@Dennis M. Seattle wasn’t effected by the 2008 recession
@Andy Mirza You are correct, no evictions if it's too cold. Also they don't evict people during the holidays. Evictions in Cook County can take a year, sometimes longer.
Lol this is how some of you are while property rights are slowly being taken away.
Absolutely correct! I work there, don’t live there. It’s filthy and unsafe, and the politics are even worse.
Originally posted by @Pratik P. :
Lol this is how some of you are while property rights are slowly being taken away.
I wanted to "like" this 1000 times. It could not be more relevant to real estate investment.
This has been a very interesting thread to read. It really showcases a few things about real estate, starting with how many different ways people invest in it and subsequently what their views might be on a certain issue for starters. I'm going to suggest that because there are so many different ways to invest, along with so many different motivations/expectations of the individual players, that the diversity clouds people's mind away from what it is that makes it possible to invest in real estate in the first place, for all investors...drum roll...
Property rights. No property rights, no real estate investors. It's the engine that makes it go. This law that is being discussed could not be more relevant to every one of our businesses, no matter what angle you come at investing from. It is a blatant assault on property rights, no question about it. To denounce it as insignificant is foolish. Nothing is more significant to real estate investment.
"many cities & municipalities have bans against what is called in the landlord world as 'winter evictions' for many years. Chicago & Washington DC are a few of many such cities."
This is not entirely accurate in Chicago. The sheriff will not evict in Chicago when the temperature that day is expected to be below X degrees (I forget the exact number). Also, the sheriff will not evict around Christmas/New Years. It's not a law, it's a sheriff policy not to evict.