Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
Airbnb has announced a two-year pilot program in Oregon that eliminates guest names and photos from host screening as a way to see if it combats illegal anti-black discrimination.
As we see it, given the strong sociological and psychological research base on what appears to be bias against certain names, kudos to Airbnb! As a field, too many in real estate for too long have had a less-than-a-stellar track record on discrimination and thus we think it is a good thing for a major player like Airbnb giving this a go. We look forward to seeing what we as a field can learn and thus what tools real estate owners may be able to use more broadly. We love it when a major company decides it wants to be proactive about ensuring that anti-discrimination laws are followed.
With all due respect people are obsessed with race. In my opinion this Woke Inc Virtue signaling.
I don't believe Airbnb gives a rats *** about anything except their bottom line. I hope that people are smart enough to see through this, or at least be cynical of companies like this acting like they care.
Investor · Puyallup, WA · Member since 2021 · 73 posts · 53 votes
4y
I feel like this experiment would be better completed where the data supports that more racism exists. Oregon doesn't seem like a place that is discriminatory in most circumstances. Seems like a better location for a pilot would have been better?
Also, not to throw a wrench in it, but other apps that are channel managers show all of that information when Airbnb doesn't. How do they seek to control other companies?
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4y
Not sure what the name has anything to do with it. @Ron Brady you are a perfect example. Your name could be any race at all.
We had a large black family at our north Idaho lakehouse (12 people) this summer. I was actually at the house just finishing up some work when they arrived. Super nice folks and they left the house in great condition.
Frankly, too many people are focused on race as a defining thing. There is so much more that goes into a person than simple skin color.
I agree with @Jonathan Avellaneda that there should be some evidence before they decide to do some kind of experiment.
Thanks for weighing in. There IS evidence of this being an issue in Oregon--the experiment, if I read the article correctly, is a result of a lawsuit settlement. If I misread the linked article, my apologies.
Unfortunately, as the links in the article indicate, there is research evidence aplenty that certain names bring disadvantage over others generally in the US--e.g. one finds more opportunity with a name like Ron than Jamal. While I think we all wish it were otherwise, the evidence suggests otherwise.
And I agree there are too many people are focused on race as a defining thing--precisely why I am excited about this experiment to eliminate race as a decision-making factor for Airbnb hosts in Oregon and to see what doing so yields.
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y
@Scott Mac I agree with you, "why would anyone discriminate against anyone for a nights stay"? How ridiculous is that? And yet, Airbnb, as part of a lawsuit settlement, reckons its worth experimenting for two years over.
Given their resources, data and the lawsuit, I'll assume Airbnb is trying to solve a potential problem. I suspect that they have too many other real issues to try to solve a problem they do not suspect is there. At minimum, what's the worst that can come from the extra effort, of their own choosing, behind ensuring the law is followed?
I always appreciate reading different perspectives than my own. It helps me remember just how many diverse takes our wonderful real estate community has.
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4y
So from reading the KGW article on the lawsuit, it appears to me that there wasn't any actual discrimination against the plaintiffs. It was the possibility of discrimination due to the photo and name requirements by AirBNB.
Rental Property Investor · Victor, ID · Member since 2016 · 59 posts · 94 votes
4y
@Bruce Woodruff this is an open community and a great example of a topic worthy of discussion. And also a great break from the “what do you know about x location?” threads that consume this forum.
@Bruce Woodruff this is an open community and a great example of a topic worthy of discussion. And also a great break from the “what do you know about x location?” threads that consume this forum.
If it annoys you, then move on.
No, I don't think I will, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll hang out and view the discussion. What are your thoughts?
Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
4y
Didn't Freakonomics have a chapter on names and job interview offers where Black sounding names were less likely to get an interview, all else being equal? It does seem fair that if you can only get the street address of an airbnb after booking...to check how the area looks or whatever, etc...the host only gets your name and photo after booking, so they can look you up on facebook if thats what hosts do or I guess in this case find out your ethnicity.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
4y
Yay Oregon! We always seem to be on the cutting edge of pushing racial equity forward.
I will say that if one has never experienced bias or oppression then its hard to understand why it might be an important topic of discussion vis-a-vis real estate.
It will be interesting to see what the results are....
With all due respect people are obsessed with race. In my opinion this Woke Inc Virtue signaling.
I don't believe Airbnb gives a rats *** about anything except their bottom line. I hope that people are smart enough to see through this, or at least be cynical of companies like this acting like they care.
Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2020 · 285 posts · 318 votes
4y
@Eric Bilderback I don't really care if it is virtue signaling, it's a step in the right direction. As someone who has personally dealt with discrimination on Airbnb's platform long before I became a host of my own STRs, it's really sad that we still even have to talk about race in 2022. But here we are, and as sure as Tuesday will always follow Monday, there will always be bad actors on every STR platform. I truly hope every STR host that posts on BP wouldn't discriminate against guests on the basis of race, but I'm not holding my breath...
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y
@Michael Baum You've read it right and I stand corrected--Airbnb's approach is based on the possibility of discrimination. Very fair.
I, for one, still look forward to the experiment and its results. I see no downside and potential upside if it makes the platform one that makes those who would discriminate have to work harder to do so. Thanks for the back and forth--I appreciate the informative debate.
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y
@Josue Vargas My read on this is that Airbnb is committed to ensuring that its platform does not aide and abet illegal discriminatory behavior. By eliminating names and photos--pieces of information that make it easier for hosts to illegally discriminate against a group of potential guests--Airbnb will, I presume, assess if doing so reduces discrimination.
I guess it does not have to be an experiment. My wife and I like it because it is a major company acting proactively based on the concerns of some of its customers to source and solve a potential problem. The evidence that names prompt irrational and illegal discrimination, as @Marian Smith notes in her post, is well-documented. Appreciate the dialogue.
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y
@Account Closed Let me respond with what some Bigger Pockets members tracking may be thinking and preparing to write.
"Yes, racism exists in America, but..."
And the "but" will be followed by a littany of reasons why racism is not that big of a deal, that its objects need to do things differently to respond to it, that those who attempt to combat it publicly are being political, etc., etc. etc.
Here is where my wife and I stand. Racial discrimination in the U.S. is illegal. More importantly for us, racial discrimination is unjust. And as Americans, we are very proud of our creed that "All (people) are created equal". And while illegal racial discrimination exists, my wife and I will work with and support anyone who wishes to rid our profession of real estate from this stain and stench. Importantly, we're happy to debate with anyone about HOW to rid our profession of this stain and stench, including where we can find it and root it out.
Now, if someone reading this is one of those who is comfortable allowing the stain and stench of illegal racial discrimination to linger, however, small, medium or large, in our profession, I'm not sure if debating you will yield much. This said, I would still welcome hearing all perspectives, even if it is one the defends illegal racial discrimination.
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y
@Bruce Woodruff Actually, I wish to revise my earlier post. When I said "almost got me", I assumed that you were knowingly trying to provoke me. Rather than make that assumption, let me "assume the best" and recognize that perhaps you may not be aware of the impact of your words. Bruce, my fellow investor, your language was textbook trolling language. What is trolling? Here is a quick run-down:
Developer · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 475 posts · 424 votes
4y
Here’s my 2 cents. Take it for what it’s worth.
It’s 2022, yes, we’re still talking about race and we forever will. Why do people think racism will magically go away? Jim Crow and segregation wasn’t that long ago. People who lived during that era have kids, grandkids, who they passed their beliefs on to. Racism will become more hidden as the years pass but it’s never going away.
Secondly, What’s to stop the host from canceling the reservation once the name is revealed? If Airbnb has/finds evidence of discrimination, and if their company truly does not tolerate such a thing, kick the host off the platform. Simple. Proceed to do the same with all offenders. If this is not the outcome , then it’s all a dog & pony show to appease the necessary customer base.
It's been well documented that real estate has been one of the most racist and institutionalized discriminatory industries in America for decades, if not centuries. Just google 'redlining' if you're ignorant of this. The color of your skin would literally dictate which neighborhoods you were allowed to rent/buy in. If you don't know that term, then you really haven't done your research.
Airbnb is not virtue signaling. They only care about their bottom line as someone else pointed out. You know what hurts a companies bottom line? Class action lawsuits. It's only a matter of time before a lawyer picks this up and successfully sues airbnb on behalf of every minority who rented from them. It's a lot at stake. Of course they're going to work on this.
They already try to prevent partying on halloween and other holidays, and you might go 'see? more virtue signaling!' no, it's not. They try to prevent parties because parties hurt their reputation, piss off townships/cities, and cause STR bans. Again, Airbnb is beholden to it's shareholders. All they care about is their bottom line. It just so happens to line up with 'woke ideals' such as, I dunno, not being discriminatory? and not wanting to piss off local residents.
Be honest with yourself, we all generalize. When you see someones photo, you instantly judge them. If I see a woman in her 20s has booked, and she's partying looking drunk in her profile picture (ive seen this multiple times because its taken directly from facebook for most people) I instantly get guarded about how she's going to leave the property. I assume she may leave late, she may leave garbage everywhere, she may, I dunno, party!
As a business owner I will do anything, and everything I can to reduce problems for my livelihood. If I think that it will help me to reduce partying (aka help my bottom line) by rejecting everyone who 'looks' like a partier, I probably will. If airbnb showed me their photo beforehand, you bet I would start to try to use it to gain an edge in my business and perform better.
It's a very easy parallel to see that some folks would do this with race. Hell, I had my very first group of French kids stay at my house a this summer and trash the place and piss off the neighbors, half-naked screaming underage drinking in the street at 2 am. You bet I am now wary of french sounding names!
The fact is this - if this isn't hurting you, or your business, to hide someone's name and simply represent with an initial, why do you care so much? If you keep arguing about how this is silly, or virtue signaling, you're really just hiding your frustration that you think racism doesn't exist in real estate and it bothers you that maybe, it does, and you aren't aware of it. This ain't about you champ, so let it go.
It’s 2022, yes, we’re still talking about race and we forever will. Why do people think racism will magically go away? Jim Crow and segregation wasn’t that long ago. People who lived during that era have kids, grandkids, who they passed their beliefs on to. Racism will become more hidden as the years pass but it’s never going away.
Secondly, What’s to stop the host from canceling the reservation once the name is revealed? If Airbnb has/finds evidence of discrimination, and if their company truly does not tolerate such a thing, kick the host off the platform. Simple. Proceed to do the same with all offenders. If this is not the outcome , then it’s all a dog & pony show to appease the necessary customer base.
Canesha
You are absolutely right. As long there are differences in people, prejudices and racism will exist as long as we are on this earth. However, in my opinion, this is no longer main stream America. Are there pockets of racism in places, absolutely. You can't legislate the heart and there will always be haters. But I believe this does not represent the majority of America. The problem I believe is that main stream media wants everyone to believe that half of this country is racist and that is just not so. But a part of this country believes the main stream media and that makes matters worse. We are way beyond that as a country. If everyone's first reaction to one another is one of respect no matter, race, ethnicity, social-economic background, etc.. this would be a better place. Which also brings up another huge problem in this country. People no longer have the skills to discuss a matter when they have differences with one another, and instead of healthy discussion it deteriorates quickly into heated emotion. This crosses all differences including politics and religion - which is I guess why they say never discuss politics and religion at the dinner table.
Having said that, I think Airbnb is doing what you and someone else mentioned. I think they are virtue signaling because I think that is just what AirBnb does. I have always felt like they think of themselves as a glorified rule maker. I also think as someone mentioned, there is the bottom line to think about and avoiding discriminatory lawsuits could definitely be another reason.
Airbnb has announced a two-year pilot program in Oregon that eliminates guest names and photos from host screening as a way to see if it combats illegal anti-black discrimination.
As we see it, given the strong sociological and psychological research base on what appears to be bias against certain names, kudos to Airbnb! As a field, too many in real estate for too long have had a less-than-a-stellar track record on discrimination and thus we think it is a good thing for a major player like Airbnb giving this a go. We look forward to seeing what we as a field can learn and thus what tools real estate owners may be able to use more broadly. We love it when a major company decides it wants to be proactive about ensuring that anti-discrimination laws are followed.
I tired to rent an Air bnb in Hamilton Montana ( one that i had previously rented ) for a june Salmon fly hatch trip.. Airbnb wanted me to up load a photo before they would take the resi.. I don't know how to up load photos without getting my grandkids over here to help. So i contacted the owner ( that took a while) and they went to my website and then my office to see if I was real.. Very frustrating to say the least. so then i popped on to VRBO and no photo necessary and rented a really cool place in 5 minutes.. also I think the deposit requirement of 1500.00 dollars will keep some riff raff away.. but you can simply pay 59.00 for insurance which I did.. so you need a credit card to pay for the room and the 59.00. Anyway I wont use Airbnb anymore ( not that I ever used them for than 2 or 3 times anyway) .
If I was to be a STR owner I would not use Airbnb I would only use VRBO etc.. Although I understand the reason behind not wanting your properties trashed by partiers.
Lastly as it relates to discrimination of a certain minority or age group.. as minority goes Oregon has the fewest minorities by far on the west coast this would be a better experiment in an area were more minorities are likely to live and use Airbnb
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