Local Governments Restricting STRs
Emanuel BlandoBusiness Member
Real Estate Coach · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 5 votesLocal Governments Restricting STRs
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
3yQuote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
Let capitalism regain control and communism get out of the way. The most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Look, I am "The Guy" for limited government, and I think your way over-exaggerating this. Zoning regulations are an absolute must, to let people build what-ever, where-ever, is a recipe for a disaster of a city. What this city regulation is doing is exactly what they are supposed to do, throttle commerce to sustainable levels and placement. A market flooded with STR's is not good, and that's exactly what brought this issue to come.
Also, setting a standard on how such business's are run, is the difference between the U.S. landscape and that of, let's say Nigeria. It's not communism to direct a cities development and commerce in an intelligent manner. Your just sore because it's has impact on yourself. How do you feel about food inspectors? Should they get out of those inspections? Used car dealers, should they be allowed to open shop anywhere regardless of zoning?
Look, I hate to tell you but they are right, residential zoning is designed and meant for residential use, NOT hospitality. There is a design to cities for a reason, not just random "communist" motives.
This is an example of city doing it's actual job. The density of STR's is getting out of hand, so they have to do something. That is a common theme all over the place. They didn't have an issue with it, until people made it an issue. MFH has to live in the same scope of adhering to zoning does it not? Every other business has to follow such, so why should STR get special exclusionary rights?
They are not removing capitalism, they are setting the boundaries, which is their job. Every business has such boundaries for operation. The issue seems to be more-so of not wanting to be forced to operate as a a hospitality business.
39 Replies
- Real Estate Coach · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 5 votes3y
Yeah Tim, I am totally surprised too. There's a lot of both in KC, the Gov of Missouri is Republican, but unfortunately for Airbnb hosts, the mayor of KC leans left. So in Palm Springs, was it all just wiped off in a day? Like Airbnb and VRBO just have to comply and take listings down?
- Cambridge, MA · Member since 2015 · 651 posts · 736 votes3y
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
@Michelle Bateman posted this a few days ago.
- Investor · CA · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 107 votes3y
Quote from @Emanuel Blando:
Yeah Tim, I am totally surprised too. There's a lot of both in KC, the Gov of Missouri is Republican, but unfortunately for Airbnb hosts, the mayor of KC leans left. So in Palm Springs, was it all just wiped off in a day? Like Airbnb and VRBO just have to comply and take listings down?
It kind of built up over time. First rumors and threats. Then as the saying goes the camel got his nose under the tent. They approved small restrictions. Then they realized no one will stop them to approve more and so they approved more. Within a few years their plan was complete.
- 3yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes3y
Quote from @Emanuel Blando:
I'm all for private property rights. However, if you are renting a private property in direct competition with hotels/motels, you should be subject to the same rules as the hotel/motel industry. The vast majority of Landlords do not pay taxes, they don't meet basic safety requirements, they don't register with the city to ensure compliance, etc.
When the majority can't play by the rules, government is going to crack down.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - 3ySarah KensingerPro MemberReal Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I'm also curious to see how the KC and Airbnb work together on this, and if they keep on top of shutting down new listings in the coming years!
- Cambridge, MA · Member since 2015 · 651 posts · 736 votes3y
Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
I'm also curious to see how the KC and Airbnb work together on this, and if they keep on top of shutting down new listings in the coming years!
It took awhile for the non-registered listings to disappear from my city. Our regulations went into effect in 2019. By the time the pandemic hit, the vast majority of illegal listings were still up and running but the pandemic closed everything in urban areas down. Thereafter, it looks like the city has been able to stay on top of enforcing their regulations.
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Yet when hotels comply with regulations, they are allowed to operate. In these cases, STRs are not allowed to operate. Period. Unless I'm missing something......
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y
Quote from @Emanuel Blando:
On 5/3/2023 the City of Kansas City, MO announced that Short-Term Rentals will be completely banned in ALL residential zoning! I had not taken it seriously until I read a couple of articles outlining their plans. Most of Kansas City's STRs were already operating 'illegally' up to this point and the city doesn't have the resource to enforce their permitting requirements. Just 7% of KC's BNBs were permitted. But now they plan to enlist the help of the platforms like Airbnb in enforcing their law by requiring Airbnb to not list any properties that have a KC address, with heavy fines on hosts for not complying. (links about all this below)
What I want to know: Is there anyone that knows of other cities that have taken similar measures? Has the government been successful in getting the cooperation of Airbnb and other platforms? How does it all go down when a city begins to ban bnbs?
https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/2033/16
https://www.kcur.org/news/2023-05-04/kansas-city-council-will-vote-on-restricting-airbnbs-in-residential-neighborhoodsOf course, in Hawaii it's even more restricted and this ban actually make things better to (legal) Airbnb owner.
Airbnb should be banned in most location. I agree with that. There's exception to many rules such as if it's OO then it's allowed.
Imagine if every half miles there's Red Roof Inn.....before Airbnb was invented, this concept even doesn't make sense, there should be regulation that's limiting the number of Airbnb host. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
- Investor · CA · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 107 votes3y
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
Let capitalism regain control and communism get out of the way. The most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
- Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
@Emanuel Blando it is pretty much happening everywhere. Out of state investors bring in money and are rich so why should not the government get a piece of the action?
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes3y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Blame the illegal operators, not the government.
When people steal things, we have to create laws. When people beat their kids, we have to create laws. When people don't obey the laws with their short-term rentals, we have to create laws.
@Tim Bee getting government out of the way would be ideal, but we have to operate in the reality that it will never happen. Hotels, motels, gas stations, grocery stores, and nail salons have to pay their taxes, so the short-term rental operators should do the same. When people don't obey the law, you can expect government to crack down.The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
Interesting. Haven't seen a flat out ban before.
Davidson county about 5 years ago proposed a 1000ft min restriction on new STR permitting. Meaning you couldn't get a permit if there was another STR operating within 1000ft of your property.
I looked in the least dense STR permit map and you couldn't get a new permit anywhere with the restriction. It was in a way a flat out ban on new permits.
It got shot down as a result.
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
Let capitalism regain control and communism get out of the way. The most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
The irony of that is 100% of business/people getting richer/poorer is because the goverment only LOL
- Investor · CA · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 107 votes3yThey are opportunistic. Which is how'd they'd be under different circumstances without government over reach.
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
Let capitalism regain control and communism get out of the way. The most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
The irony of that is 100% of business/people getting richer/poorer is because the goverment only LOL
- 3yJay ThomasPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 715 votes
It'll be interesting to see how both KC and Airbnb collaborate to ensure that new listings are being properly vetted and shut down where necessary. It could have a major impact on the local economy as well as property values and rental prices! I'm eager to keep an eye on this development in the near future, as it has potential for big changes throughout the city. Time will tell what happens!
- 3yBonnie Griffin KaakePro MemberReal Estate Consultant · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 661 posts · 389 votes
@Tim Bee This is not about capitalism or communism. It is about what is fair and in the best interests of all. We do not have to go to extremes and scare tactics in either direction.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
Let capitalism regain control and communism get out of the way. The most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Look, I am "The Guy" for limited government, and I think your way over-exaggerating this. Zoning regulations are an absolute must, to let people build what-ever, where-ever, is a recipe for a disaster of a city. What this city regulation is doing is exactly what they are supposed to do, throttle commerce to sustainable levels and placement. A market flooded with STR's is not good, and that's exactly what brought this issue to come.
Also, setting a standard on how such business's are run, is the difference between the U.S. landscape and that of, let's say Nigeria. It's not communism to direct a cities development and commerce in an intelligent manner. Your just sore because it's has impact on yourself. How do you feel about food inspectors? Should they get out of those inspections? Used car dealers, should they be allowed to open shop anywhere regardless of zoning?
Look, I hate to tell you but they are right, residential zoning is designed and meant for residential use, NOT hospitality. There is a design to cities for a reason, not just random "communist" motives.
This is an example of city doing it's actual job. The density of STR's is getting out of hand, so they have to do something. That is a common theme all over the place. They didn't have an issue with it, until people made it an issue. MFH has to live in the same scope of adhering to zoning does it not? Every other business has to follow such, so why should STR get special exclusionary rights?
They are not removing capitalism, they are setting the boundaries, which is their job. Every business has such boundaries for operation. The issue seems to be more-so of not wanting to be forced to operate as a a hospitality business.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
Quote from @Tim Bee:
It's about informing people to make a better decision. Unfortunately statistally speaking democrats these days are leaning more left historically speaking which alings with anticapitalism pro government control.Quote from @Bonnie Griffin Kaake:
@Tim Bee This is not about capitalism or communism. It is about what is fair and in the best interests of all. We do not have to go to extremes and scare tactics in either direction.
What????? Are you aware that when looking at EVERYTHING, R & D parties are in lock-step on about 98% of things? It's true.
It's an oxymoron to say "anticapitalism pro government". Without capitalism there is no government. Even communist countries have an aspect of capitalism. The R - D argument is limited government vs big government, small business vs corporate business. Who the capitalism is benefiting.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3yFYI: The United States is a Socialist-Republic. Always has been.
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Emanuel Blando Just looking at this whole thing with no bias in any direction, it's a really smart mechanism they are using to make this enforcement.
They have obviously learned from other areas trying to enforce such that issuing fines alone does little, but creating regulation that empowers the city to send a "delist" notice to the handful of platforms STR Operators use, well it "cut's em off at the pass" doesn't it. Smart, it's really smart, credit where it's due.
And it reads to me that they said "Ok, people want to operate like a hotel, well then they can exist like a hotel" and hotels have to comply with zoning regulations of being in a commercial zoning, which often is a completely different world of taxation. I am willing to bet that's a component to this.
For how it all goes down, the regulations linked seem to outline it rather clearly, I don't see a reason for confusion, unless your thinking the city government will go through all the trouble of making such regulations to just sit back and not enforce it. It just is what it is, unless you have the $ to burn via filling suite and trying to get an injunction, just accept it and move on.
Let capitalism regain control and communism get out of the way. The most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
And with that operates a socialist-capitalism system, again always has been.
The U.S. is not a democracy, nor a purely capitalistic system, and again, never has been.
For example, when industries became monopolistic like oil and railroads, which a purely capitalistic system would say "meah, oh-well, is what it is", our socialist-capitalism system "broke them up" "for the public good".
We have zoning regulations, assorted licensure requirements, all of these are socialist actions. Parks, sidewalks, all socialist.
Most of the things you like and enjoy, are via socialism aspects.
Capitalism has never held "control". It is ALLOWED to exist and flourish UNDER the socialist "umbrella" which is said as "for public good".
What get's argued in politics in the perception and actions that define "for public good". Some say masking was for public good, others said no masking was for public good. Some say big gov., others limited, etc etc.. Interpretations and opinions vary as much as stars in the sky but fact is capitalism has never controlled the whole at societal level.
There has always been "fences" in place for business to exist and operate. - Investor · CA · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 107 votes3yI never mentioned republicans. I personally am not either of them. Look, America was founded by individuals who created government to secure their rights and leave them alone. Americans today want government to violate other people's rights, steal their stuff, and give it to them. The home of the free has become the land of the freeloader. For example what got us out of the depression was capitalism, and we would have gotten out a lot quicker had the government not intervened. I think we are pretty off topic now so there really isn't any need to continue this unless you want to.
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Tim Bee:
It's about informing people to make a better decision. Unfortunately statistally speaking democrats these days are leaning more left historically speaking which alings with anticapitalism pro government control.Quote from @Bonnie Griffin Kaake:
@Tim Bee This is not about capitalism or communism. It is about what is fair and in the best interests of all. We do not have to go to extremes and scare tactics in either direction.
What????? Are you aware that when looking at EVERYTHING, R & D parties are in lock-step on about 98% of things? It's true.
It's an oxymoron to say "anticapitalism pro government". Without capitalism there is no government. Even communist countries have an aspect of capitalism. The R - D argument is limited government vs big government, small business vs corporate business. Who the capitalism is benefiting.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
Quote from @Tim Bee:
I never mentioned republicans. I personally am not either of them. Look, America was founded by individuals who created government to secure their rights and leave them alone. Americans today want government to violate other people's rights, steal their stuff, and give it to them. The home of the free has become the land of the freeloader. For example what got us out of the depression was capitalism, and we would have gotten out a lot quicker had the government not intervened. I think we are pretty off topic now so there really isn't any need to continue this unless you want to.Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Tim Bee:
It's about informing people to make a better decision. Unfortunately statistally speaking democrats these days are leaning more left historically speaking which alings with anticapitalism pro government control.Quote from @Bonnie Griffin Kaake:
@Tim Bee This is not about capitalism or communism. It is about what is fair and in the best interests of all. We do not have to go to extremes and scare tactics in either direction.
What????? Are you aware that when looking at EVERYTHING, R & D parties are in lock-step on about 98% of things? It's true.
It's an oxymoron to say "anticapitalism pro government". Without capitalism there is no government. Even communist countries have an aspect of capitalism. The R - D argument is limited government vs big government, small business vs corporate business. Who the capitalism is benefiting.
Not sure what America your referencing, because the one I live in was founded by the Continental Congress, a governmental body. Who succeeded, not founded or created, based from a taxation issue and inequal representation, not "to be left alone".
And in response to the Great Depression the Social Welfare system was created and expanded 1,000X fold from what it ever had been. A majority of the populous had some reliance on the social welfare system in some form or fashion for some duration, be it gov. spending on infrastructure projects to create jobs, food allocation systems etc.. And there was this little event called WWII that is unanimously credited with the exit of the Great Depression with the mass expansion known as "The Industrial Revolution", which again the #1 "Customer" was the U.S. government. Because, ya know, WORLD WAR and the consumption of such.
Your version of history Tim is.... well let's be generous and call it "interesting".
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