The lack of short-term rental safety!!

Short-Term & Vacation Rental Discussions
3yFollow

The lack of short-term rental safety!!

Sarah KensingerPro Member
Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

The lack or inattentiveness of safety in short-term rentals is appalling!! Over the weekend 3 people died at a STR in Outer Banks due to a house fire, and it seems like every couple of months we hear of more people dying at a STR. We need more awareness and possibly training for those that operate STR! Justin Ford of Breezeway is bringing awareness and offers a safety course that hosts become certified in all things STR safety; yet so many people have never heard of him! He pointed out the photo below that he came across on the Airbnb platform preparing for a STR safety presentation. Seriously what are the hosts thinking!! This property is a small treehouse that the hosts are cramming 9 guests into!

We need to start talking about STR safety more, and please, politely make your friends/colleagues that are STR hosts aware of dangers that need to be addressed. Guests are guests but we don't need to hand them a stupid opportunity that turns deadly. This is partly why STR are gathering more restrictions is places. If we would educate ourselves better at the safety items other public lodging facilities have to follow, it would help keep guests safer and give assurance to the local community.

Located at one of the top 20 STR in the mid-west, congrats to another brilliant Missourian!.......

[email protected]330-557-3021
5Reply
217 views

Most Popular Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y

Short-term rentals are generally safer than long-term rentals or even owner-occupied properties because a large percentage of them are inspected regularly.

That picture is your best example of unsafe practices? Just another example of how our society seems to think they can control life and death with the appropriate number of rules. Some of us grew up without money and learned how to do things on our own without government telling us what we could or couldn't do. That red-neck hottub can be operated just as safely as a $10,000 electric version! Out of curiousity, does Justin Ford talk about the dangers of choking on hotdogs and peanuts, tripping over area rugs and extension cords, or falling off a chair while trying to reach the mixing bowl on the upper shelf? I bet those examples result in more deaths than the hottub you've pictured.

I still believe we live in a free society where people can do what they want with their property and grown adults can choose to participate and take personal responsibility for the outcome. If you feel it's unsafe, don't sit in it, don't let your kids sit in it, and don't install one on your property. I don't need warning labels telling me to not microwave small pets, drink gasoline, or only operate tubs approved by the government.

P.S. Your post sounds like an advertisement for someone's business. I hope that's not the intent because it's a violation of the rules.

The DIY Landlord Book4.7245 Reviews
WebsiteView Page
15Reply
See this reply in the discussion

51 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Richard Elvin
    Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 280 posts · 187 votes
    3y

    Wow! Is that marketed as a "hot tub?". lol

    2Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Richard Elvin:

    Wow! Is that marketed as a "hot tub?". lol

    Sure is! It's supposed to take about 3 hours until it's hot enough to enjoy.
    [email protected]330-557-3021
    1Reply
  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y
    Same thing in long terms really. all you can do is the best you can.
    Podcast Guest on Show From Surviving on $30/Day to 30+ Properties Thanks to Blue-Collar Skills
    3Reply
  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    I agree on the safety issues. I have attended property inspections of STR's for sale that fail electrical due to overfused electrical panels, etc.

    Our onboarding manager has just completed and is certified through Breezeway safety course :)

    [email protected]813-563-0877
    Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Trent Reeve
    Atlanta · Member since 2022 · 720 posts · 648 votes
    3y

    i think most STR's are likely safer than normal homes. especially any one that requires permitting and inspections. I know in our beach house, the fire extinguisher and first aid box are most readily available than in our personal home. and we are limited in the number of guests we can host. There will always be people on the edge or skirting the law, just like the crazy drivers that blow past you on the highway doing 100+ mph. i think the overall safety is better than you give credit to. I know i had renters a few months ago, they started the gas stove but didnt light it. i cant test every guest to see if they know to light a gas stove before using it. the alarm went off fairly quick and they opened the windows to air it out. would that have been a safety issue and would you have blamed me for that?

    and yeah, Justin Ford, never heard of him. doesnt mean im an irresponsible owner.

    4Reply
  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Great thread. Safety and risk management is usually completely overlooked by new vacation rental investors. That’s ironic since it is the single thing that could bring them financial ruin.

    Owners are responsible for providing a safe accommodation.  All the insurance in the world will not cover gross negligence.  Read your policy.  

    It is incumbent upon owners to continuously monitor the condition of their properties and addressing various safety issues as they arise:

    Loose railing, rotting steps 

    Improper ventilation 

    Inadequate fire suppression 

    Electrical problems 

    Sanitation/sewage problems

    Water quality problems 

    Pest infestations - wasp nests etc.

    If you have a claim and you are found by court to be grossly negligent, your insurance will deny the claim and you will be sued for everything you own. It’s nothing to mess around with.  We’ve been defendants in two lawsuits along with the homeowners since 2005, so I’ve got a bit of experience here.

    [email protected]806-672-7102
    SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    3Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    6Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    They believed it was caused by lighting. Unfortunately, they seem to think there weren't working smoke detectors in the home and one of the bedrooms had a window pretty much blocked by a bunk bed.

    [email protected]330-557-3021
    0Reply
  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Here is a write-up I did a while back on the subject of risk management.



    Risk Management for the Self Manager (biggerpockets.com)

    [email protected]806-672-7102
    SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    They believed it was caused by lighting. Unfortunately, they seem to think there weren't working smoke detectors in the home and one of the bedrooms had a window pretty much blocked by a bunk bed.


     So working smoke detectors should be checked frequently because a renter may disable those.

    The blocked window is certainly the owner and PM'S fault.

    1Reply
  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    And another write-up I did on this topic:



    "We've been sued!!!" The three most dreaded words (biggerpockets.com)

    [email protected]806-672-7102
    SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Trent Reeve
    Atlanta · Member since 2022 · 720 posts · 648 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    They believed it was caused by lighting. Unfortunately, they seem to think there weren't working smoke detectors in the home and one of the bedrooms had a window pretty much blocked by a bunk bed.

     interesting. ive read about 10 articles this morning and nothing mentions fire caused by lighting and non-functional smoke detectors. can you share the story you saw stating that? now i did read one that said it might have been caused by lightning, but only anecdotal as there were storms in the area.

    1Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Trent Reeve:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    They believed it was caused by lighting. Unfortunately, they seem to think there weren't working smoke detectors in the home and one of the bedrooms had a window pretty much blocked by a bunk bed.

     interesting. ive read about 10 articles this morning and nothing mentions fire caused by lighting and non-functional smoke detectors. can you share the story you saw stating that? now i did read one that said it might have been caused by lightning, but only anecdotal as there were storms in the area.

    Why are you so antagonist to this thread? Are you connected to the property that burned? The main reason I brought this thread up was the hot tub idea in MO, not the house fire I briefly mentioned. Two homes burned in Outer Banks over the weekend and their fairly certain both were from lightning strikes. Lastly, why is it that lately people are demanding I share links to what I read? I don't keep track of all the links I clink on and read, especially when I rely on local news over national. Have I ever shared anything untrue on these forums? If so, it was unintentional, and no one pointed it out to me.
    [email protected]330-557-3021
    0Reply
  • Carolyn Fuller
    Cambridge, MA · Member since 2015 · 652 posts · 736 votes
    3y

    This is one reason why city regulations are a good thing. Our STR is inspected once every 5 years. During our last inspection, I asked them if the city was ever going to start inspecting LTRs because our long term tenant residents deserve safe accommodations as much as visitors! I was told that it was in the works. It was a matter of having enough personnel for the inspections. It is long overdue in a community where 2/3rds of our residents are renters.

    0Reply
  • Trent Reeve
    Atlanta · Member since 2022 · 720 posts · 648 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @Trent Reeve:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    They believed it was caused by lighting. Unfortunately, they seem to think there weren't working smoke detectors in the home and one of the bedrooms had a window pretty much blocked by a bunk bed.

     interesting. ive read about 10 articles this morning and nothing mentions fire caused by lighting and non-functional smoke detectors. can you share the story you saw stating that? now i did read one that said it might have been caused by lightning, but only anecdotal as there were storms in the area.

    Why are you so antagonist to this thread? Are you connected to the property that burned? The main reason I brought this thread up was the hot tub idea in MO, not the house fire I briefly mentioned. Two homes burned in Outer Banks over the weekend and their fairly certain both were from lightning strikes. Lastly, why is it that lately people are demanding I share links to what I read? I don't keep track of all the links I clink on and read, especially when I rely on local news over national. Have I ever shared anything untrue on these forums? If so, it was unintentional, and no one pointed it out to me.

    you were the one that brought up lack of STR safety and then pointed to this fire in the outer banks (it was your 2nd sentence) and then make it seem like it was the owners fault. you could have pointed out the hot tub by itself, but you didnt. makes it seem like you are spreading false information to drive a point. there are plenty of ways to make a point without feeding false information. just seemed a strange way to do this. anyways, i'll see myself out of this thread.

    6Reply
  • Richard Elvin
    Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 280 posts · 187 votes
    3y

    @Trent Reeve You are correct that there's no official cause. Google only had two links and one didn't mention the cause, the other stated: "It’s unclear what caused the 75-year-old building to catch fire.". https://www.wsaz.com/2023/08/11/3-killed-3-injured-rental-ho...

    @Carolyn Fuller 5 years is a long time between inspections. 
    ' "In North Carolina, there is a statute that requires them to be checked at least annually. We check them weekly," Cafferty said.' https://www.wtkr.com/news/after-deadly-obx-fire-rental-prope...

    0Reply
  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    I think much of the problem is thousands of people wake up daily now and declare themselves STR operators. It used to be flippers but now it's STR. After that it was wholesalers who went out trying to make deals without knowing anything. This market is saturated just like flipping/wholesaling was in its prime. You have tons of unskilled people with zero familiarity in this asset class who flock to it because they believe they are supposed to. Do a query on this site and see how nearly every newbie is amped for specifically this. I have not heard of that many deaths but can see them occurring if everybody feels this is what they are supposed to do for big money. Putting out a feckless STR is no different than the masses of flippers who put out horrible products or the wholesaler who ties up property but can get no buyer. Until the next cool sounding fad emerges this will continue. This really screws it up for the serious investors that are doing the right thing. Most people who chase the latest perceived get rich quick fad (ie crypto, 5lynx) will never be thorough enough have all their ducks in a row.

    3Reply
  • Chad McMahan
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:

    The lack or inattentiveness of safety in short-term rentals is appalling!! Over the weekend 3 people died at a STR in Outer Banks due to a house fire, and it seems like every couple of months we hear of more people dying at a STR. We need more awareness and possibly training for those that operate STR! Justin Ford of Breezeway is bringing awareness and offers a safety course that hosts become certified in all things STR safety; yet so many people have never heard of him! He pointed out the photo below that he came across on the Airbnb platform preparing for a STR safety presentation. Seriously what are the hosts thinking!! This property is a small treehouse that the hosts are cramming 9 guests into!

    We need to start talking about STR safety more, and please, politely make your friends/colleagues that are STR hosts aware of dangers that need to be addressed. Guests are guests but we don't need to hand them a stupid opportunity that turns deadly. This is partly why STR are gathering more restrictions is places. If we would educate ourselves better at the safety items other public lodging facilities have to follow, it would help keep guests safer and give assurance to the local community.

    Located at one of the top 20 STR in the mid-west, congrats to another brilliant Missourian!.......

    Agreed. The safety stuff is definitely not considered enough by owners and not only will cause more deaths/injuries, but also cost the owners in lawsuits- in some cases will bankrupt (or yield jail time + fees for) owners.
    It's interesting that you provided a photo and example of a STR fire/cowboy style hot tub. This version is one of the most dangerous that I have seen pictures of. Wow.

    However, even just an unheated "cowboy pool" (a small metal pool- usually round), is incredibly risky for owners- and mildly risky for tenants. They share the same pool safety requirements as a traditional pool. Yet almost nobody satisfies those requirements, as it's done on the cheap. And because it's fairly common, people think it's okay, legal and "safe enough". It's not safe enough in the law's eyes, and owners are liable if something happens and required+ (I recommend you take extra precautions above and beyond what's legally required) precautions are not taken. Scary stuff.
    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y

    Short-term rentals are generally safer than long-term rentals or even owner-occupied properties because a large percentage of them are inspected regularly.

    That picture is your best example of unsafe practices? Just another example of how our society seems to think they can control life and death with the appropriate number of rules. Some of us grew up without money and learned how to do things on our own without government telling us what we could or couldn't do. That red-neck hottub can be operated just as safely as a $10,000 electric version! Out of curiousity, does Justin Ford talk about the dangers of choking on hotdogs and peanuts, tripping over area rugs and extension cords, or falling off a chair while trying to reach the mixing bowl on the upper shelf? I bet those examples result in more deaths than the hottub you've pictured.

    I still believe we live in a free society where people can do what they want with their property and grown adults can choose to participate and take personal responsibility for the outcome. If you feel it's unsafe, don't sit in it, don't let your kids sit in it, and don't install one on your property. I don't need warning labels telling me to not microwave small pets, drink gasoline, or only operate tubs approved by the government.

    P.S. Your post sounds like an advertisement for someone's business. I hope that's not the intent because it's a violation of the rules.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7245 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    15Reply
  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    This is a good topic to discuss. I spend a lot of time checking the various things that can cause an issue. Repairing loose deck stairs etc.

    So far no issues with our place.

    I will say that I don't spend my time searching for deaths that occur in STRs. After a quick search, what I did find was deaths relating to parties. Stabbings and shootings mainly.

    I couldn't find any data of how many people have died in a STR, but I bet it exists. Actuaries collect data on everything. I would be interested in seeing the actual data. Justin Ford has a lot of quotes across the industry, but they are vague. No real hard data like "57 people died in vacation rentals in 2022."

    My gut says that most accidents occur due to excessive alcohol consumption.

    I take safety very seriously but like others have said, you can mitigate as much as you can but in the end, you can't fix stupid.

    4Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    I think that AirBnB started a bad 'mindset' when they came along and encouraged people to rent literally anything as a STR....a spare bedroom, an RV in your driveway, a tent in the backyard, a treehouse etc.....As opposed to VRBO, who requires that you rent an actual dwelling.

    Not that some of these cannot be fantastic experiences, it just encourages the lowest common denominator people to jump into the rental housing business.

    Just my .02...

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Trent Reeve:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @Trent Reeve:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    Some people have no common sense and may have caused the fire and no amount of prevention can fix stupid.

    I do agree that we should make our places as safe as possible to protect people from themselves.

    They believed it was caused by lighting. Unfortunately, they seem to think there weren't working smoke detectors in the home and one of the bedrooms had a window pretty much blocked by a bunk bed.

     interesting. ive read about 10 articles this morning and nothing mentions fire caused by lighting and non-functional smoke detectors. can you share the story you saw stating that? now i did read one that said it might have been caused by lightning, but only anecdotal as there were storms in the area.

    Why are you so antagonist to this thread? Are you connected to the property that burned? The main reason I brought this thread up was the hot tub idea in MO, not the house fire I briefly mentioned. Two homes burned in Outer Banks over the weekend and their fairly certain both were from lightning strikes. Lastly, why is it that lately people are demanding I share links to what I read? I don't keep track of all the links I clink on and read, especially when I rely on local news over national. Have I ever shared anything untrue on these forums? If so, it was unintentional, and no one pointed it out to me.

    you were the one that brought up lack of STR safety and then pointed to this fire in the outer banks (it was your 2nd sentence) and then make it seem like it was the owners fault. you could have pointed out the hot tub by itself, but you didnt. makes it seem like you are spreading false information to drive a point. there are plenty of ways to make a point without feeding false information. just seemed a strange way to do this. anyways, i'll see myself out of this thread.

    What? No mention of the STR in Paradise Valley, AZ used for shooting porn flicks or the gang shootouts in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe & Mesa STRs? STRs are full of excitement in the valley and gun safety classes should be required.
    1Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

    Short-term rentals are generally safer than long-term rentals or even owner-occupied properties because a large percentage of them are inspected regularly.

    That picture is your best example of unsafe practices? Just another example of how our society seems to think they can control life and death with the appropriate number of rules. Some of us grew up without money and learned how to do things on our own without government telling us what we could or couldn't do. That red-neck hottub can be operated just as safely as a $10,000 electric version! Out of curiousity, does Justin Ford talk about the dangers of choking on hotdogs and peanuts, tripping over area rugs and extension cords, or falling off a chair while trying to reach the mixing bowl on the upper shelf? I bet those examples result in more deaths than the hottub you've pictured.

    I still believe we live in a free society where people can do what they want with their property and grown adults can choose to participate and take personal responsibility for the outcome. If you feel it's unsafe, don't sit in it, don't let your kids sit in it, and don't install one on your property. I don't need warning labels telling me to not microwave small pets, drink gasoline, or only operate tubs approved by the government.

    P.S. Your post sounds like an advertisement for someone's business. I hope that's not the intent because it's a violation of the rules.

    Actually, yes Justin Ford does talk about all the things you mentioned. I'm really surprised at this comment considering the other items I've seen you talk about. When you have a STR things totally change, it's no longer just "your property" but a public lodging facility. If you want your freedom in a free county the property has to stay private on all fronts.
    As for your P.S. I have NO idea what you're talking about. I'm only part of my company and I didn't bring up one policy we have! For some of the posts I've seen on this form, I can't believe the flack I've been getting about this topic! Why is it so sensitive or is it just "who" posted it? This is supposed to be a place to help and bring awareness to all things STR... hello that all I was doing in the safety department and somehow all you guys totally missed it!

    [email protected]330-557-3021
    0Reply
  • Susan Walsh
    San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 17 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Lastly, why is it that lately people are demanding I share links to what I read? 
    Because without a link, it's just "people have been saying". If you're going to state something as fact, you should be able to provide a cite.
    5Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    First, let me apologize because I'm tired and going to come across harsher than usual.

    I haven't seen much talk regarding STR safety, yet you created this post and pointed everyone towards a paid training program. That's looks like you are marketing for someone, which isn't allowed.

    You also make it sound as though people are dying left and right in vacation rentals, which isn't true. Your link was apparently a bad resource. Your picture example was people having fun in a wood-heated tub with no evidence they were being unsafe. You have no evidence anyone in that picture was harmed. In fact, I'll bet you don't know of a single person injured in a fire-heated tub.

    Just because I offer my property to the public for use doesn't mean the property belongs to the public or that government should get to dictate how I use it. If I want to feature nightly sword swallowing classes, wood-fired hottubs, bronc riding, and catching marshmallows with my mouth while jumping on the trampoline with no safety net, then the public should have the freedom to decide if they want to participate or if they would rather stay in a box with rounded corners and bubble-wrapped stairs.

    I'm admittedly spoiled because I live in one of the few states that still believes in personal responsibility.
    The DIY Landlord Book4.7245 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    7Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free