Operating Airbnbs without EVER seeing the house

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Operating Airbnbs without EVER seeing the house

Bailey Kramer
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes

I own 2 Airbnbs and Co-Host several properties that I’ve NEVER seen in person!

It all comes down to having the right team, Technology, and processes in place!!

Teams (of course there are more, but these are the top 2 most important)

-Cleaners

-Handyman

Tech - Tech that makes running the biz simple from anywhere!

- Smart Locks

- Cameras

- My phone lol

Processes - Aka my standard operating procedures for...

- How trash is handled

- Cleaning procedures between each guest

- Ordering supplies

- Furnishing units

Have questions about running Airbnbs remotely?  Or have insightful comments about how you run your Airbnb biz remotely?  Drop em below!

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
3y

I would never hire a PM that can't routinely inspect the property and help with things without having to pay someone else for every little thing that needs to be done.

Example: Had a problem with a 4k projector and surround sound system. PM spent multiple days troubleshooting issue and ultimately we had to replace projector under warranty. He provided a decent sized loaner TV during the process. Guess how much extra we paid for all this? Nada.

This was just part of his value add of being a boots on the ground local PM.

If your PM isn't local you may as well self manage.

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y

    I would never hire a PM that can't routinely inspect the property and help with things without having to pay someone else for every little thing that needs to be done.

    Example: Had a problem with a 4k projector and surround sound system. PM spent multiple days troubleshooting issue and ultimately we had to replace projector under warranty. He provided a decent sized loaner TV during the process. Guess how much extra we paid for all this? Nada.

    This was just part of his value add of being a boots on the ground local PM.

    If your PM isn't local you may as well self manage.

    8Reply
  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    I agree with John. I don’t think I’d be proud of this fact as someone that’s getting paid to manage (you) 

    I’ve done this many times but I find it’s a max of about 4 months before you have to get there and learn the property. 

    You can’t sell your product if you don’t know anything about it. 

    Go touch it smell it feel it learn it know it. 

    Podcast Guest on Show From Surviving on $30/Day to 30+ Properties Thanks to Blue-Collar Skills
    4Reply
  • Yiwei Cheng
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2023 · 139 posts · 81 votes
    3y

    What are your guest reviews like?

    1Reply
  • Zach Edelman
    Lender · New York, NY · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    Kudos to you for leveraging the power of automation/technology to do more with less time. Hope it all works out. 

    1Reply
  • Pete AppezzatoPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Destin, FL · Member since 2019 · 49 posts · 18 votes
    3y

    I agree it can be done without really going to the property much if you have the right team in place.  I do feel that getting into the property to get a feel for it at least a few times will make you understand the guest experience much better.   I had and self-managed 3 units in philly (about 90 miles from where I used to live) that did quite well.  After I set them up personally, I didn't go back much at all but i understood the challenges and potential issues upfront.  Also i had a great cleaner and 'boots on the ground' team

    [email protected]212-300-5102
    0Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    So, what is the deal with you crashing in here again posting all these tips. :D

    [email protected]330-557-3021
    1Reply
  • Ryan MoyerBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 991 posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    I would never hire a PM that can't routinely inspect the property and help with things without having to pay someone else for every little thing that needs to be done.

    Example: Had a problem with a 4k projector and surround sound system. PM spent multiple days troubleshooting issue and ultimately we had to replace projector under warranty. He provided a decent sized loaner TV during the process. Guess how much extra we paid for all this? Nada.

    This was just part of his value add of being a boots on the ground local PM.

    If your PM isn't local you may as well self manage.

    I thought you self managed?

    What does that PM charge and what is their role?

    Either that PM is charging more on the front-end to make up for not having to charge for things like that, or they don't value their time and they are going to burn themselves out.  Or you've found yourself a unicorn and I hope you buy them one hell of a Christmas present every year!

    Cosmic Vacations4.9174 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Zach Edelman:

    Kudos to you for leveraging the power of automation/technology to do more with less time. Hope it all works out. 


     Thanks Zach!  So far so good (2 years in)!!

    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:

    So, what is the deal with you crashing in here again posting all these tips. :D

     Just adding value LOL.  I've learned a ton on Bigger Pockets and other social platforms from people sharing free tips, strategies, and experiences, so this is 1 way of paying it forward.

    When I was a sophomore in College I hopped on BP and binged the podcast, networked my butt off, and honestly without it I wouldn't be where I'm at today!  

    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    I would never hire a PM that can't routinely inspect the property and help with things without having to pay someone else for every little thing that needs to be done.

    Example: Had a problem with a 4k projector and surround sound system. PM spent multiple days troubleshooting issue and ultimately we had to replace projector under warranty. He provided a decent sized loaner TV during the process. Guess how much extra we paid for all this? Nada.

    This was just part of his value add of being a boots on the ground local PM.

    If your PM isn't local you may as well self manage.


    I totally hear and see your point of view, John!  Although I will say the scenario you mentioned could also be handled remotely...

    I've had fires, broken windows, plumbing issues, YOU NAME IT, and the real key is being able to find the right person to do the job.  Because if it came down to a projector, I wouldn't have a clue how to personally fix it, but I can definitely get the right person to do so!

    1Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Luke Carl:

    I agree with John. I don’t think I’d be proud of this fact as someone that’s getting paid to manage (you) 

    I’ve done this many times but I find it’s a max of about 4 months before you have to get there and learn the property. 

    You can’t sell your product if you don’t know anything about it. 

    Go touch it smell it feel it learn it know it. 


     I totally hear your point about touching and feeling "the product".  But I do have a team in place to do that!  I can sell my product easily from just seeing pictures, videos and market research.

    For example, I have a property on a Lake that also has a pool and can sleep 8 people.  I've seen the photos and videos and I have a rockstar team in place to handle the cleaning and maintenance.  The property brings in $100K-$115K/year gross and there's no need for me to see the property.  We've already got a repeat guest for next year.

    I've learned that there isn't just "1" way to run a property! hahah

    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Yiwei Cheng:

    What are your guest reviews like?


     Superhost status 2 years and counting!!!  So 4.8 and above.  And then no reviews on 1 property because we got a direct booking with an insurance company ( and so far those guests are happy!)

    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Pete Appezzato:

    I agree it can be done without really going to the property much if you have the right team in place.  I do feel that getting into the property to get a feel for it at least a few times will make you understand the guest experience much better.   I had and self-managed 3 units in philly (about 90 miles from where I used to live) that did quite well.  After I set them up personally, I didn't go back much at all but i understood the challenges and potential issues upfront.  Also i had a great cleaner and 'boots on the ground' team


     Yea I totally hear what you're saying!  When I 1st started out, I was at the property putting in the blood, sweat and tears!  After doing it a handful of times, I've just learned I can have other people do it for me #teameffort

    0Reply
  • Kiera Underwood
    Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2019 · 956 posts · 600 votes
    3y

    The PM team I work with allows clients to never go to the property. Most of the owners that I work with are out of state and have never even been to Oklahoma! I couldn't imagine the owners I work with having as much success with out the boots on the ground team. There's so much attention to detail beyond cleaning that contributes to the ideal "feel" and reaction to each property. After each unit is cleaned and before check-in a member of the PM team I work with goes over and does a ~30 point checklist to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. I could see a world where this could be automated on paper, but like some commenters mentioned before it feels like the real person problem solving goes notably far in terms of bang for your buck.

    1Reply
  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    Just a quick question @Bailey Kramer, what do you charge for PM services?

    Do you pay for all the service folks to go out when something requires physical attention?

    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Michael Baum:

    Just a quick question @Bailey Kramer, what do you charge for PM services?

    Do you pay for all the service folks to go out when something requires physical attention?


     20% of the gross.  And no, the owner pays for the service folks to go out when something requires physical attention

    0Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    I would never hire a PM that can't routinely inspect the property and help with things without having to pay someone else for every little thing that needs to be done.

    Example: Had a problem with a 4k projector and surround sound system. PM spent multiple days troubleshooting issue and ultimately we had to replace projector under warranty. He provided a decent sized loaner TV during the process. Guess how much extra we paid for all this? Nada.

    This was just part of his value add of being a boots on the ground local PM.

    If your PM isn't local you may as well self manage.

    I thought you self managed?

    What does that PM charge and what is their role?

    Either that PM is charging more on the front-end to make up for not having to charge for things like that, or they don't value their time and they are going to burn themselves out.  Or you've found yourself a unicorn and I hope you buy them one hell of a Christmas present every year!


     We inherited a PM on our large PF cabin. He makes plenty of money at 20% of our gross. I micromanage him, but he does a lot of stuff and he personally checks on the property. He gets stuff at HD and doesn't include a markup. He picked up a sleeper matress brought it to cabin and installed with no markup or fees. Somebody else with a "team" would be costing the owners when paying for all these things they can't do.

    1Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bailey Kramer:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:

    So, what is the deal with you crashing in here again posting all these tips. :D

     Just adding value LOL.  I've learned a ton on Bigger Pockets and other social platforms from people sharing free tips, strategies, and experiences, so this is 1 way of paying it forward.

    When I was a sophomore in College I hopped on BP and binged the podcast, networked my butt off, and honestly without it I wouldn't be where I'm at today!  

    I totally get that; I know who you are and your story. But showing up almost every day to get "in the trenches", when people have problems tends to help out more.
    [email protected]330-557-3021
    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @Bailey Kramer:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:

    So, what is the deal with you crashing in here again posting all these tips. :D

     Just adding value LOL.  I've learned a ton on Bigger Pockets and other social platforms from people sharing free tips, strategies, and experiences, so this is 1 way of paying it forward.

    When I was a sophomore in College I hopped on BP and binged the podcast, networked my butt off, and honestly without it I wouldn't be where I'm at today!  

    I totally get that; I know who you are and your story. But showing up almost every day to get "in the trenches", when people have problems tends to help out more.

     Never would I have thought I'd have backlash for giving free value LOL

    I talk to people every day who NEED the info that I share.  I'll send my text exchange with

    @Emily Hammer below (From August 10th).  She saw one of my posts talking about Mid Term Rentals and message me so I hopped on a phone call with her and sent her free resources.  I didn't ask her for a dollar or pitch her anything.  Just here to help! 

    The whole point of me getting in the trenches is to help people who have problems with their property or to help people just starting out.

    WARNING: I'm going to be posting A LOT more VALUABLE FREE content here. So for you or anyone reading this that is bothered by me sharing tips and tricks to help you start or grow your STR or MTR biz, I recommend blocking me LOL

    0Reply
  • Dan Thomas
    Rental Property Investor · Bow, NH · Member since 2016 · 216 posts · 185 votes
    3y

    @Bailey Kramer

    Don't understand all the hype in STR about what properties gross. I personally couldn't care less. That number is meaningless. What did it net?

    0Reply
  • Bailey Kramer
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 231 posts · 256 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Dan Thomas:

    @Bailey Kramer

    Don't understand all the hype in STR about what properties gross. I personally couldn't care less. That number is meaningless. What did it net?


     I'm just the Co-Host on that property, so I don't own it.  I have no idea what it netted because I don't know how much the owners paid in expenses for mortage, taxes, insurance, utilities, etc. etc.  

    I get 20% of the gross revenue so that's why I shared the gross #.

    I'm with you though, for properties that I own, I always share the net!  Maybe that'll be my next post breaking down all of the revenue and expenses for the ones I own! Thanks!! 

    0Reply
  • Ryan MoyerBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 991 posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Dan Thomas:

    @Bailey Kramer

    Don't understand all the hype in STR about what properties gross. I personally couldn't care less. That number is meaningless. What did it net?

    Huh?  He was answering a question on what his rates were.  PM rates are based on gross revenue, not net revenue.

    In general though, people typically talk about gross revenue because you can underwrite based off gross revenue, not net, since expenses (and especially debt service) are going to be very different from owner to owner.

    Cosmic Vacations4.9174 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bailey Kramer:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @Bailey Kramer:
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:

    So, what is the deal with you crashing in here again posting all these tips. :D

     Just adding value LOL.  I've learned a ton on Bigger Pockets and other social platforms from people sharing free tips, strategies, and experiences, so this is 1 way of paying it forward.

    When I was a sophomore in College I hopped on BP and binged the podcast, networked my butt off, and honestly without it I wouldn't be where I'm at today!  

    I totally get that; I know who you are and your story. But showing up almost every day to get "in the trenches", when people have problems tends to help out more.

     Never would I have thought I'd have backlash for giving free value LOL

    I talk to people every day who NEED the info that I share.  I'll send my text exchange with

    @Emily Hammer below (From August 10th).  She saw one of my posts talking about Mid Term Rentals and message me so I hopped on a phone call with her and sent her free resources.  I didn't ask her for a dollar or pitch her anything.  Just here to help! 

    The whole point of me getting in the trenches is to help people who have problems with their property or to help people just starting out.

    WARNING: I'm going to be posting A LOT more VALUABLE FREE content here. So for you or anyone reading this that is bothered by me sharing tips and tricks to help you start or grow your STR or MTR biz, I recommend blocking me LOL

    Yep, same here...I have a lot of people ask to call or message me, so I usually talk to people all over the country a couple times a week. 
    [email protected]330-557-3021
    0Reply
  • Dan Thomas
    Rental Property Investor · Bow, NH · Member since 2016 · 216 posts · 185 votes
    3y

    @Ryan Moyer

    More of a general statement about posts regarding STR, not necessarily specific to that property. I feel like every STR related youtube video or BP post showcasing how successful a property is seems to highlight gross revenue. Personal pet peeve I guess. For all I know they are loosing money hand over fist for all the reasons you mentioned and many more.....

    0Reply
  • Brooklyn McCarty
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 754 votes
    3y

    I think it’s important to lay eyes on a property at least once a year. 

    No one sees things like the owner or manager. Going in person is a valuable investment in the properties. Even if you are doing well, a visit with new perspective may help you do even better 

    2Reply
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