Hawaii or South America? Something else?

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Hawaii or South America? Something else?

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

I'm looking for recommendations for a future STR. Would prefer responses from people with actual, personal experience.

Requirements:

1. Single-family residence, not a condo or timeshare

2. On the beach

3. Cash flows.

I'm only interested in something that can pay for itself and make enough cash flow to pay for me to visit a couple times a year. Where have you found success? Maui? Florida? Oregon?

Thanks in advance.

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Mike Neubauer
Rental Property Investor · Waikapu, HI · Member since 2018 · 305 posts · 197 votes
7y

@Nathan G. There’s a few things to think about for Hawaii. One, it would have to be a long term play. I say that because it is now required that you own your property for at least five years before you can even apply for the str permit. After that, there’s a lot of other requirements to get the str permit as well, not more than 30% of your neighbors can oppose, there has to be enough permits allotted for that area, it has to be in an area that is zoned for it, etc. and like @Jay Hinrichs said, it’ll cost you a premium. I live and invest in STRs on Maui and if you want to be on a nice beach you’re looking at $20m+ for a decent house, but that will likely need rehabbing at that price.

The nightly rates those houses command are good, but unless you buy in cash or close to it, they most likely won’t cash flow. Christmas through Mid April is our high season when rates will be best. Ocean view houses, if you can wait the five years and invest right is a much more lucrative play.

Good luck. 👍🏽

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  • Parker Eberhard
    Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes
    7y

    @Nathan G. The nice thing about Pacific Northwest beach areas is that they are just as nice in the winter as they are in the summer.

    There really isn’t a ‘bad season’ per say, as the temperature is pretty temperate year round

    2Reply
  • Parker Eberhard
    Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 339 posts · 325 votes
    7y

    @Nathan G. San Juan’s are also beautiful; don’t know too much about the market however

    1Reply
  • Mike LambertPro Member
    Investor · The Americas and Europe · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Nathan Gesner I invest internationally and it's a great idea. While laws and regulations are getting more and more STR unfriendly in the US and Canada, they are actively encouraged in many countries. While I can understand it, I'm not sure why @Jay Hinrichs is scared of owning property outside of North America. We're on BiggerPockets here. Haven't we learned that opportunities are where others are scared and don't take action. All we need to do is get the education and information or work with people who have those and act accordingly. Unlike in North America, many foreign countries have none or very limited mortgage markets and their property prices haven't been inflated by 10 years of 0 or close to 0% interest rate policies from their central banks.

    For reasons that I have explained at length in another recent post, I would never invest in Belize! Panama is a great place but the government is only starting to promote tourism actively. STRs are allowed in the whole country, except in Panama City, which would be the most profitable place to do it otherwise.

    Portugal is awesome and is by far the better of the three, although, as in many countries, you cannot own on the beach.

    I guess that Portugal is off the table for you because it's too far. If you look at North and Central America and the Caribbean only, your best bets are the Dominican Republic and Mexico by far. Costa Rica would be second tier as most places have become overly expensive in many (but not all) places and forget about being right by the beach there.

    I buy international real estate with investor and this is my specialty. I'm very knowledgeable about the different areas and options so feel free to reach out if I can help you any further.

    3Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Parker Eberhard:

    @Jay Hinrichs i love the Oregon coast and feel that it is more about walking along the beach than actually going in the water (unless you surf)

    Agreed. I love walking the Oregon beach, even when there's a drizzle. It's just a different kind of beauty. And I love the cold days because I can still enjoy it from inside the home with a fire. We spent our childhood mostly around Waldport up to Long Beach, WA.

    I remember looking at new vacation homes back in 2004-2005 and wishing that I would someday be wealthy enough to own one. Those homes are now selling for 3x the price.

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  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Nathan G. Check out the Adirondack mountains in NY. Beautiful lake from properties. Specifically check out Rocky Point Properties. They sell lake homes and run the rental program yeah round. Full disclosure: my family owns Rocky Point.

    Still one of the best options in the ADKs for mountain lake front properties.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason Graves:

    @Jay Hinrichs

    Are are talking about Black rock in Maui at the Sheraton hotel? 

    yes the old West Maui airport was located just to the north of the Sheraton and the final approach was right over Black rock at about 150 feet. and the original windsock bar was located up a spiral stair case.. it was right out of a 40s Bob Hope Movie.. Royal Hawaiin air flew in there in Cessna 414s and in those days a passenger could hop up and fly right seat.. ( don't touch anything ) so I did that many times.. and as a bonus you might stop at Kalapaupa Leper colony to drop something off or pick someone up going to HNL.  that was old Maui and I Miss it.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
    Originally posted by @Parker Eberhard:

    @Jay Hinrichs i love the Oregon coast and feel that it is more about walking along the beach than actually going in the water (unless you surf)

    Agreed. I love walking the Oregon beach, even when there's a drizzle. It's just a different kind of beauty. And I love the cold days because I can still enjoy it from inside the home with a fire. We spent our childhood mostly around Waldport up to Long Beach, WA.

    I remember looking at new vacation homes back in 2004-2005 and wishing that I would someday be wealthy enough to own one. Those homes are now selling for 3x the price.

    we are going to Puget Island today to look at a Columbia river front..  my wife was raised there and its an island surrounded by the Columbia Cathlamet on the WA side Ferry to Oregon.. will see.. its raining today  :(

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mike Lambert:

    @Nathan Gesner I invest internationally and it's a great idea. While laws and regulations are getting more and more STR unfriendly in the US and Canada, they are actively encouraged in many countries. While I can understand it, I'm not sure why @Jay Hinrichs is scared of owning property outside of North America. We're on BiggerPockets here. Haven't we learned that opportunities are where others are scared and don't take action. All we need to do is get the education and information or work with people who have those and act accordingly. Unlike in North America, many foreign countries have none or very limited mortgage markets and their property prices haven't been inflated by 10 years of 0 or close to 0% interest rate policies from their central banks.

    For reasons that I have explained at length in another recent post, I would never invest in Belize! Panama is a great place but the government is only starting to promote tourism actively. STRs are allowed in the whole country, except in Panama City, which would be the most profitable place to do it otherwise.

    Portugal is awesome and is by far the better of the three, although, as in many countries, you cannot own on the beach.

    I guess that Portugal is off the table for you because it's too far. If you look at North and Central America and the Caribbean only, your best bets are the Dominican Republic and Mexico by far. Costa Rica would be second tier as most places have become overly expensive in many (but not all) places and forget about being right by the beach there.

    I buy international real estate with investor and this is my specialty. I'm very knowledgeable about the different areas and options so feel free to reach out if I can help you any further.

    Well let me restate.. I am fine travelling and renting hotel resort VRBO.. but have no personal interest in owning a property. I owned property in BC and that worked out fine.. its personal to me.. not saying others should have my , or share my opinions on this.. and I suspect most of Europe would be fine and AUSSIE land etc.  Japan  other stable nations.  

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  • Kristy Farmer
    Investor · Galveston, TX · Member since 2015 · 92 posts · 41 votes
    7y

    @Nathan G. What part of Panama? I’m familiar with most of Panama as my boyfriend at the time and I drove from Panama City to Bocas del Toro. If you go in front of the proposed road on the pacific side it’ll be cheaper land. It’ll be more expensive on the Caribbean side but I fell in love with that area. The Bocas town was not where I’d go. It was rough. The 16 islands are close by water taxi and I loved isla bastimentos.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    @Kristy Farmer I don't have any particular area in mind. I serve with a guy that was married to a Panamanian and he intended to retire down there. He told me you're beautiful gated communities with all the amenities one would expect in America but the cost of living was significantly lower. I've never been there and don't know if I would like it but it's on my list to investigate because of what he told me.

    I would consider Europe, the Philippines, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, and many other places. I'm just bouncing ideas around while I try to really evaluate what I would enjoy and actually use. It may be another 5 years before I purchase something in another country because I would want to wait until the children are gone.

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  • Kristy Farmer
    Investor · Galveston, TX · Member since 2015 · 92 posts · 41 votes
    7y

    @Nathan G. It's worth looking into. The STR market is pretty good. It seems like booking.com is a good site to see what money comes in on rentals.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Irish-Jones:

    @Nathan G. Check out the Adirondack mountains in NY. Beautiful lake from properties. Specifically check out Rocky Point Properties. They sell lake homes and run the rental program yeah round. Full disclosure: my family owns Rocky Point.

    Still one of the best options in the ADKs for mountain lake front properties.

    I somehow missed your post. Upstate NY has some nice areas like Thousand Islands, but that state is not my bag, for many reasons.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    @Kristy Farmer I don't have any particular area in mind. I serve with a guy that was married to a Panamanian and he intended to retire down there. He told me you're beautiful gated communities with all the amenities one would expect in America but the cost of living was significantly lower. I've never been there and don't know if I would like it but it's on my list to investigate because of what he told me.

    I would consider Europe, the Philippines, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, and many other places. I'm just bouncing ideas around while I try to really evaluate what I would enjoy and actually use. It may be another 5 years before I purchase something in another country because I would want to wait until the children are gone. 

    we love Thailand and the Thai people I looked at condos there last trip.. but the reality of 16 hour flight to Hong Kong and then 4 to Pukhet even though we fly business class always.. its just too long of a flight.. to use often..  Desires and then reality comes into play.

    someone mention Puget Sound I suspect you being from this area you have been there.. but that was one of our fav's when I was still flying a lot we could fly up to Friday harbor from Portland in about 45 minutes.. so if you have a small airplane it works well.. and between Friday and East sound they are very cool.. prices though are not cheap.. but very pretty. and somewhat in the rain shadows as well. not as wet.

    another place you might want to explore that is still affordable is just north of Cabo on the Pacific side there is some early developing going on there.. you can buy lots NOT water front but water view for reasonable.. No major crime and the water you can drink. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    Cerritos beach is what I am referring to in Baja  its just south of Todo Santo's ( Hotel CA fame)

    and La Paz has a lot of houses you can buy cheap with nice views as well and a really cool Melachan. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    Nathan as a moderator are you erasing posts you don't like on your thread..  LOL.. not sure why anyone would post anything offensive or removable on your question its a great question to ask a national audience of real estate folks.. 

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Nathan as a moderator are you erasing posts you don't like on your thread..  LOL.. not sure why anyone would post anything offensive or removable on your question its a great question to ask a national audience of real estate folks.. 

    Jay, I was conflicted because I liked her post. However, the rules state people can't use the forums to market or make deals and she was clearly violating that. 

    Do you know what the forums would look like if every Tom, Dick, and Harry were allowed to advertise their deals, training, or services? 

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  • Mike LambertPro Member
    Investor · The Americas and Europe · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs I totally agree with you. We can have different opinions! And I totally understand your preference in investing in "stable" developed countries like Canada, European countries or Australia. However, real estate prices in those countries are hyperinflated by the mortgage bubble, which doesn't exist in the countries that you'd qualify as less stable. Indeed, the mortagge market is either very small or non-existent in those countries. Therefore, investing in those countries is much less risky at this stage of the credit cycle in my opinion.

    1Reply
  • Dean Letfus
    Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    New Zealand is a particularly safe bet.  We have very predictable capital growth, (values double every ten years) and rental growth. Virtually zero vacancies and landlord friendly laws.  It's "as safe as houses".  Some investors are a bit worried as our values have declined nationally by 1.(% in the last 12 months. That is enough outside of normal to have people talking about it!

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  • Diogo Capela
    Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    Ahh...

    The good news is that I can scratch Hawaii off my list. Thanks for that!

    I'm really leaning towards Panama or Belize. Portugal has always been a draw but only if I would probably only consider that if I were living there 3+ months of the year.

    Portugal os "The Place" right now for STR.

    Don't understand why you think you must stay for that long in Portugal.

    if you want some insight for an experienced person in this market, please feel free to send me a PM.

    1Reply
  • Hadar OrkibiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · USA / NZ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 812 votes
    7y

    @Dean Letfus not as friendly as parts of the US! ;-)  AND GETTING WORSE POSSIBLY 

    0Reply
  • Matt Ayoub
    Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 48 votes
    7y

    I have a successful SFH STR in San Jose del Cabo Mexico. Large international airport 2 hours from many south-western cities.
    Financing is hard to get so cash buyers can find some very good deals. Similar home would be 10x+ in San Diego and the ocean is freezing. I give my PM 12 percent of revenue to manage everything except the Airbnb / VRBO listings and pre-arrival guest communication. Model is working well and with a growing number of positive reviews have been able to tweak pricing up which is having a great impact on financials. Happy to share additional learnings if helpful.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Diogo Capela:
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    Ahh...

    The good news is that I can scratch Hawaii off my list. Thanks for that!

    I'm really leaning towards Panama or Belize. Portugal has always been a draw but only if I would probably only consider that if I were living there 3+ months of the year.

    Portugal os "The Place" right now for STR.

    Don't understand why you think you must stay for that long in Portugal.

    if you want some insight for an experienced person in this market, please feel free to send me a PM.

    If I'm traveling outside the continental US, I would prefer to stay longer. I hate taking a week vacation and spending 2+ days traveling plus all the time required to adjust sleep patterns.

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  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mike Lambert:

    @Nathan Gesner I invest internationally and it's a great idea. While laws and regulations are getting more and more STR unfriendly in the US and Canada, they are actively encouraged in many countries. While I can understand it, I'm not sure why @Jay Hinrichs is scared of owning property outside of North America. We're on BiggerPockets here. Haven't we learned that opportunities are where others are scared and don't take action. All we need to do is get the education and information or work with people who have those and act accordingly. Unlike in North America, many foreign countries have none or very limited mortgage markets and their property prices haven't been inflated by 10 years of 0 or close to 0% interest rate policies from their central banks.

    For reasons that I have explained at length in another recent post, I would never invest in Belize! Panama is a great place but the government is only starting to promote tourism actively. STRs are allowed in the whole country, except in Panama City, which would be the most profitable place to do it otherwise.

    Portugal is awesome and is by far the better of the three, although, as in many countries, you cannot own on the beach.

    I guess that Portugal is off the table for you because it's too far. If you look at North and Central America and the Caribbean only, your best bets are the Dominican Republic and Mexico by far. Costa Rica would be second tier as most places have become overly expensive in many (but not all) places and forget about being right by the beach there.

    I buy international real estate with investor and this is my specialty. I'm very knowledgeable about the different areas and options so feel free to reach out if I can help you any further.


    >For reasons that I have explained at length in another recent post, I would never invest in Belize! I know nothing of Belize as it relates to RE investing so would be interested in why you hold this view. As for visiting the country, love it. We did our honeymoon there too many years ago. It was both environmentally and culturally diverse, they speak English (not understandable English in some parts), and the currency is based on US dollar. Rain forest, Cayes, an atoll, Mayan ruins, great waterfall, Caves, interesting zoo, cool towns (really liked Placentia). I could envision visiting Belize annually.
    1Reply
  • Dean Letfus
    Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Hadar Orkibi:

    @Dean Letfus not as friendly as parts of the US! ;-)  AND GETTING WORSE POSSIBLY 

     Depends how you look at it @Hadar Orkibi.  NZ is hands down easier and safer to make a fortune in real estate over time pretty passively. The US is easier to flip and create cashflow but it takes 20 times the work to get a similar result.  As soon as you have enough wealth to retire I would sell it all in the US and put it into NZ. WAAAAAAAAY easier!!!!

    1Reply
  • Hadar OrkibiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · USA / NZ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 812 votes
    7y

    “Over time” Because it’s an application market. (Auckland)

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