Solar in illinois: worth it?
I've done some preliminary research on going solar for my primary residence (two unit with flat roof and almost no shade according to comed and project sunroof by google)
Ive run my numbers a few times and I understand there are tax incentives and that next step is to find a contractor to give an estimate.
Anyone here on Bigger pockets willing to give both pros and cons of their solar installer/contractor and your experience of switching over to solar.
My primary residence is long term and don't plan on going anywhere anytime soon (10 years plus)
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I've been interested in this as well. I've heard rumors from a few of my clients about companies knowing of Grants that can cover nearly 100% of the costs. Apparently there are companies who specialize in all of this information so once you find them, they work out all the paperwork, get paid thru grants, and you get the install for practically nothing. Similar to how a lot of roofing companies will replace your roof "for free" because they can "prove" there were strong storms within the area and your roof was "damaged" from that. Biggest difference would be that this gets paid for by grants rather than from your insurance company which could lead to increased premiums.
I'm hoping someone on BP has some immediate experience with this as I'd like to consider it for our next home.
@Account Closed full disclaimer I have not done solar yet. I tried to get those energy grants for several of my buildings with flat roofs and I was turned down by the companies. I think solar is amazing and would love to do my part to make buildings more "green". Your scenario makes sense as long as you are ok with tying up the cash for that long. When I ran the numbers it seemed like the equipment would last around 20 years and the payoff was 10-12 years. On my investments I normally look to get my cash back in 1-3 years so this was way too long for me.
I've been interested in this as well. I've heard rumors from a few of my clients about companies knowing of Grants that can cover nearly 100% of the costs. Apparently there are companies who specialize in all of this information so once you find them, they work out all the paperwork, get paid thru grants, and you get the install for practically nothing. Similar to how a lot of roofing companies will replace your roof "for free" because they can "prove" there were strong storms within the area and your roof was "damaged" from that. Biggest difference would be that this gets paid for by grants rather than from your insurance company which could lead to increased premiums.
I'm hoping someone on BP has some immediate experience with this as I'd like to consider it for our next home.
Energy grants? Different from tax incentives?
Adding research of energy grants to the "To do list"
John and Sam
Thanks for the reply
Are you using electric heat? My electric bills are generally pretty low. They're up some in the summer months due to AC. But they're generally low enough that I think it would take forever to get my money back. I don't know what solar panels cost, but I have to imagine thats a pretty sizable investment.
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Hi Mike, I worked in solar in nearly every capacity possible (residential, commercial, utility, community solar, etc.) for many years before I transitioned into RE full time. Here are some resources for you if you haven't found them already:
This site gives an overview of the average costs and incentives for each state, and you can enter your info to get a rough estimate for a system: https://www.solarpowerrocks.co...
This is a reliable website for reviewing local solar installers: https://www.solarreviews.com/s...
Feel free to hit me up with any specific questions. @Andrew Smith is another solar professional on here, I believe he's still active in solar and may be willing to chat with you about the specifics of your project (Hi Andrew hope you're well buddy!). Illinois is a booming market for solar, you have great interconnection, net metering, and SREC policies there.
Best, Steve
I have a forced air furnace but I pay for electric in my primary residence which is a two unit + public
My next step is to consider solar on my 6 unit
I would say it doesn't matter where you are, as long as the numbers add up and you have a good ROI. I agree with someone that said 3-4 years is good for ROI, but with solar even 7-8 years would make sense. Anything above though may not be worth it. The inverter warranty is generally 15-20 years, plus the technology is evolving quick. It also depends on your usage. The higher the electric bill, the higher the savings and faster ROI.
@Account Closed Is your property in Chicago? Several years ago, we looked into solar panels for one of our buildings (highest on the block, completely unobstructed sunlight south, west and east sides). The biggest hurdle for us at the time was that we have a flat roof and investigating the city's installation requirements for a flat roof seemed like the code requirement would just be setting you up for roof leaks. I don't recall much else and don't know if any of the recent code changes were in this area. This was maybe seven or eight years ago and at that time there was still the hope of some nebulous green credits from the city. Those credits no longer exist.
Chiming in to follow.
@Samuel Pavlovcik
I’m in the solar industry in California I work for Vivint Solar. I’m not aware of the grants that are out there for people to receive “free” or practically “free” systems.
There is obviously loan programs as well as just writing a check. Which if you purchase you receive the federal tax credit of 26%
Here in California and I’m 90% sure Illinois has this program as well is a Power Purchase Agreement. For example if you got your solar through Vivint. They receive the tax credit, they put the solar system on at no cost to you, and then you just pay vivint for the power it produces at a cheaper rate then what you pay your utility company. No loan, no big cash investment.
I don’t know what rates are in Illinois but in California that is a very popular option. If you’re interested I can look into it for you just send me a PM.
Thanks @Christopher Olsen,
I currently live in a 3-flat in Chicago but my wife and I are planning to move to the North Atlanta area next year so I'm planning on waiting until after the move and looking into the potential down in GA on our new home.
Solar can be put on for free with no downpayment if you use certain companies and your house qualifies. Illinois afaik is one of the few states that allows this with different grants. Have a friend who installs .. @Andy Margolis
I just read your profile. I was a CPS teacher for six years.
I looked into solar for my rentals in Phoenix AZ which has sunshine pretty much all year 'round. Unfortunately the numbers didn't really work out for my particular properties.
It might work as a supplement to your normal power supply but it won't "replace" your supplier.
First you have to have a roof that faces toward the sun. If your roof faces the wrong way there isn't enough sun exposure. Then your HOA community or neighborhood has to allow solar. Not all do, since they can be considered "odd looking". There are two types of financing, one you buy outright and the other is financed. When you go to sell, the buyer has to qualify for financing on the financed one. Not every buyer wants solar, so it limits your pool of buyers. Since you've committed to the technology you probably have raised your selling price to cover the cost and not everyone will pay that extra amount.
So, if you never sell, that isn't an issue.
The biggest drawback for me was that it only works during a sunny day, it's calculated on "sunny" days, that means no clouds.
It doesn't work at night. That means you have to have a bank of expensive batteries and reduce power consumption at night when you need more power or simply revert to your normal power supply.
Replacing batteries is a big cost.
Some of the solar companies went out of business once the subsidies for the company ran out. That would tell me production costs are still too high. I didn't check to see if various companies parts are interchangeable, but it would help if they are.
Firemen don't like them because during a fire they are tripping over it and could receive an electrical shock and solar gets in the way of access through the roof to vent the smoke.
The worlds largest array of solar is outside Phoenix, so they are learning a lot as they go forward. Power companies in Phoenix such as APS and SRP give "credits" for solar generation but you really have to do the math to see if the numbers work.
I wait with anticipation for Solar or Mr. Fusion generators, one per building, hopefully the technology will arrive.
I'd like to clarify a few of these.
Solar systems are tied to the grid rather than being off grid. They absolutely can completely offset your utility bill depending on your usage and the roof space and orientation (or land space if ground mounted).
NO HOA can prevent solar. It is Federal law.
You can purchase outright or purchase through finance. You can lease or get a Power Purchase Agreement. Most homeowners benefit from purchase in one form as they claim the Federal Tax Credit, currently 26%. Also an owned system can be appraised at full value Fannie Mae. There is no lien on the home even if financed. Leased or PPA systems cannot be appraised.
National surveys by Zillow and NAR show an average home value increase of $4/watt by going solar. So a 10Kw system on average adds $40K to a home value by their studies (we use $3/watt to be conservative). That of course does not mean your specific home would see that as it is an average - could be more, could be less.
A new owner can either take on the loan payment if financed (650 FICO) or you can add the appraisable value to the home and the new buyer then has no power bill at all (assuming the system is 100%offset).
Solar not working in clouds is frankly hogwash. Clouds make little to no difference. Germany is the #1 country on earth for solar and is not renowned for its citizens needing high factor sunscreen. I am Scottish and burn in fog. Trees on the other hand do absorb UV really effectively and that is why a solar company will look at tree cover. Trees are the #1 reason for homes being rejected for solar, 650 FICO being the second.
Solar companies went out of business in AZ because of pernicious laws. Many have been reversed, but still some AZ utilities charge a monthly to solar homes. This is offset by some measure by the AZ $1000 State Tax Credit. It is still, however an issue with some AZ utilities.
Net metering means you sell your excess power to the grid during the day and you buy power from the utility at night using those credits. In this way you use the utility as a battery. The goal is to offset 100% of the usage charges throughout the year.
It is cheaper to produce energy per kWh by solar and wind than by burning fossil fuels. That is one of the main reasons that the utility scale solar farms are opening. If fossil fuels were not subsidised to the tune of at least $1.3tn/yr in the USA, the country would be running on renewables tomorrow.
All solar systems - at least the ones installed by reputable solar companies with permits HAVE to comply with Fire Marshall regulations for access. In the Carr Fire, my customer was evacuated for 2 weeks and knew they had a home to go back to as they could monitor their production from their solar system so knew the roof was still there. The Fire Service switches the system off as they do with the main house breaker. It is non-issue.
You can add a battery to a system to be "independent". For many, batteries are too expensive relative to value added. This is changing rapidly with tech and manufacturing advances. In areas such as PG&E there are incentives that can offset the entire cost of a battery for grid resilience programs. Even without those, it is still cheaper to go solar with battery(ies) areas such as PG&E territory than stay with utility only. In other areas like Houston and FL, batteries are commonly sold as a "lifestyle choice" - worthwhile to offer independence even when the grid is down.
What is accurate is that every home/system is different. The numbers depend on current and planned usage, orientation and size of available roof or land, and underlying cost of power.
@francis rusnak - your comments are very accurate. Illinois is a hot area for solar due to these amazing incentives that cost qualifying homeowners nothing to go solar.
23 years on the job
Was planning on retiring early in two years to invest full time, then covid happened
Update: I learned the hard way many of the solar ads want your phone number so they can start cold calling homeowners for estimates and appointments. So over the weekend I started answering my phone and as fast and willing they were to come out and give an estimate, when i told them I live in a multi unit, the conversation soon turned into " Oh, didnt know that, we will call you back......."
Ill admit i was browsing on Facebook for solar companies in chicago and always asked the following:
1. Do you install on flat roofs? always answered yes
2. My primary residence is a two flat and since i pay for my tenants electric will this be a problem? They often said "yes" but one company said it depends on building height restrictions and angle of the solar panels would be the only obstacle
Seems like these companies all of the suddenly are changing their tune
Im asking because i don't know but is there something against installing solar panels for investment properties?
@francis rusnak - your comments are very accurate. Illinois is a hot area for solar due to these amazing incentives that cost qualifying homeowners nothing to go solar.
Update: I learned the hard way many of the solar ads want your phone number so they can start cold calling homeowners for estimates and appointments. So over the weekend I started answering my phone and as fast and willing they were to come out and give an estimate, when i told them I live in a multi unit, the conversation soon turned into " Oh, didnt know that, we will call you back......."
Ill admit i was browsing on Facebook for solar companies in chicago and always asked the following:
1. Do you install on flat roofs? always answered yes
2. My primary residence is a two flat and since i pay for my tenants electric will this be a problem? They often said "yes" but one company said it depends on building height restrictions and angle of the solar panels would be the only obstacle
Seems like these companies all of the suddenly are changing their tune
Im asking because i don't know but is there something against installing solar panels for investment properties?
I recommend you explore: Solar For Landlords; then see if you can position yourself to participate in Community Solar for Illinois. My read of the objective: Free installation of panels on specific properties with energy being distributed to the community.
Depending on your average electrical bill it may not be worth it. My yearly average of a month by month base electrical bill is $160. There is absolutely no reason for me to saddle my house with a 30 year lease on a system that if I sell the new owner may not want.
Solar is great when your electrical bill runs in the 3-600 a month range.
With respect, your house is saddled with a $160/month rental payment to the utility which in CA is rising at at least 5% annually. Unless you have an unsuitable roof or tree shading, it would be difficult to believe that a solar payment - ownership through zero down finance - would not be less than the $160/month. Even if it was a "wash" to begin with, it will save increasingly with time and every available study shows that not only do solar homes sell for more (average $4/watt of solar system) but also sell faster. That's Berkeley Labs, Zillow, NAR, DofE, HUD."
Leases can be an issue as Fannie Mae exclude them from appraisal, but Fannie Mae explicitly include owned (even financed) systems. Typically the point where solar starts to save homeowners out of the gate in CA is an $80/month bill. It's different in different states. Rather than "saddling your home", you are adding an asset for less money than you currently spend to rent electricity.
Not sure when you last ran numbers, but if it was 10 years ago, the numbers you wrote would make more sense. It would also explain the negativity to leases as they were far more prevalent then. I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you ran numbers today.
@francis rusnak - your comments are very accurate. Illinois is a hot area for solar due to these amazing incentives that cost qualifying homeowners nothing to go solar.
Update: I learned the hard way many of the solar ads want your phone number so they can start cold calling homeowners for estimates and appointments. So over the weekend I started answering my phone and as fast and willing they were to come out and give an estimate, when i told them I live in a multi unit, the conversation soon turned into " Oh, didnt know that, we will call you back......."
Ill admit i was browsing on Facebook for solar companies in chicago and always asked the following:
1. Do you install on flat roofs? always answered yes
2. My primary residence is a two flat and since i pay for my tenants electric will this be a problem? They often said "yes" but one company said it depends on building height restrictions and angle of the solar panels would be the only obstacle
Seems like these companies all of the suddenly are changing their tune
Im asking because i don't know but is there something against installing solar panels for investment properties?
Hi Mike. First, there are online companies like "Energy Sage" that give great information, but are to solar as "Home Advisor" or "Angie's List" are to construction. They are a lead generation site that sell leads to solar companies. Not saying there's anything wrong with that model, it's just that it would explain why you're getting a bunch of calls if you used a site like that. "Fresh meat" in the lead pool!
It's impossible to advise you precisely on your property without looking at all the circumstances - usage, available roof space, local codes, single or multiple meters, how the property is owned, etc.
Flat roofs are no problem other than how they are coated. Example is the vinyl "foam" roof coating has been an issue in North Carolina proposals for me as we cannot warranty against leaks on those.
Roof space and orientation of course impacts the orientation and number of panels that can be put on any roof. The goal of a system would be to offset 100% of the usage numbers from the bill(s) but this is limited by roof space available. The fact that you are paying the bills for your tenants should be no issue at all, but we might advise on lease addendums if your went solar to, for example, determine who would pay the utility if there was excessive use by the tenants above production of the solar system
Best advice, pick one company and let them dive in to make an accurate proposal. If you don't like that one or want other opinions, let another dive in properly. I couldn't give you an accurate answer based on what you've written here for example - I'd need usage numbers from bills, roof type and age, and other information such as how the property is owned that would come from a detailed conversation.
Hope that helped.
Ran them three years ago. The savings would be inconsequential compared to dealing with a lease or incurring debt with a loan. For my personal use it’s not worth it.
Lots of people get roped in these leases. Try getting out of one when you sell and the only buyer doesn’t want the system.
My house is full of solar panels, my roi is about 4-5 years at the current rate structure. My last bill was $100 less than my prior years bill. I actually just ordered a battery as pge will switch us to a non favorable rate plan that would increase my bill by 40%. I think everyone’s situation is different, but it is pretty much a given that you will get your money back in 5-10 years. If you intend to stay that long, do it.
The people who think solar panels are ugly is not saying it based on looks, it’s likely just a political statement.
Btw pge’s average kwh will be like .29 cents. I know states like Indiana are closer to .11 or something.
I should also add that people should look for huge electrical drain and upgrade those appliances if their goal is to save money. You won’t believe how much power your 10 yo fridge drains compare to a new energy star unit.