Beaver Falls, PA · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
Is a new furnace return on investment worth the money when flipping a house? We are in the process of flipping a house that has an older forced air oil furnace (about 12 years old), which works well. Was considering either putting in a new natural gas furnace & A/C unit, or just installing an A/C unit on the existing forced air oil furnace. Installing a new natural gas would also consist of tapping into the gas line at the street.
Also, basement is unfinished, but framed for two bedrooms, and there is a Pittsburgh toilet by the steps. Was thinking of making that a 3rd bath. I am pretty new to flipping. This is my second flip. Any suggestions from you experts would be greatly appreciated.
Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 57 votes
12y
It all depends on your numbers on the deal and the amount the house can appraise for. What do the neighbors have? Natural gas or oil? Can your budget support it?
Beaver Falls, PA · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
12y
Good morning Dan,
Some neighbors have gas, some have oil. When finished, it should appraise for 200K, bought it for 100K. Neighborhood is between 100k and 300K homes. Our budget can support it.
Investor · Canton-Akron, OH · Member since 2012 · 917 posts · 477 votes
12y
We renovate and sell some houses with fuel oil, propane or electric furnaces, but only if there is no natural gas available.
I wouldnt switch it out because of the age of the furnace, if I could have it certified and it was in good condition, but I wouldswitch it because its fuel oil.
In our area you dramatically limit your buyer, as many will not buy with fuel oil especially if the neighbors have gas, and you risk selling for significantly less. Per my realtor
of the three, fuel oil is considered the least desirable.
Locally the gas company will run the lines to the house, the plumber runs the lines to the meter for a couple hundred bucks, new high efficincy furnace installed under 2,000. My opinion small price to pay for the upgrade.
Investor · Canton-Akron, OH · Member since 2012 · 917 posts · 477 votes
12y
If it was me I would be checking with a top retail realtor who sells that neighborhood, for their opinion of difference in value.
I am quite certain that in Jackson Township area locally where we have 2 to 3 hundred thousand dollar houses. If natural gas would be coming into that area and realtors and buyers are aware of it and half of the house already have it, I am quite certain that there would be a $20,000 or more difference in value of the house, plus a lot of the buyers just don't want to mess with it so they wont buy the house, knowing in the next 5 years they will have to come up with the money to replave furnace and to connect.
If you really want to know the answer you really have to ask the people who are selling houses in that area. If you get 2 or 3 opinions, not from the average realtor, but from Realtors who sell a lot of houses in that neighborhood, in that price range you will have an answer you should be able to trust.
I'm not from Pittsburgh, but I think it refers to a stand-alone toilet in the basement - no walls, no sink, just a commode to have an extra place for people to relieve themselves.
I'm not from Pittsburgh, but I think it refers to a stand-alone toilet in the basement - no walls, no sink, just a commode to have an extra place for people to relieve themselves.
Poll your local realtors about what sells and what doesn't. For instance, an oil furnace in any Cleveland metro neighborhood is going to be an absolute dealbreaker for buyers (although the instance of this fuel type in the first place is extremely rare). In rural and farm areas, this won't necessarily be the case (although it's still problematic for younger buyers). It's best to ask the people who are seeing houses move in your neighborhood. When I was flipping in a 50s cookie-cutter neighborhood, a realtor once told me that a bungalow would fetch $85,000 on the spot, and a colonial, $95,000. He was absolutely on the mark in both cases. The people who are making the deals happen know best.
Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 384 posts · 109 votes
12y
I never knew that was called a "Pittsburgh toilet." I remember I used to see this configuration, including the shower, in old houses in Columbus, Ohio. No surprise since there were a lot of Pittsburgh transplants there.
Contractor · Chebeague Island, ME · Member since 2013 · 68 posts · 14 votes
12y
Raymond B.
Thanks for the history lesson. Your informative post on Pittsburgh Toilets is why I love reviewing the forums.
You never know what you'll learn.
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 292 posts · 81 votes
12y
I see stand-alone basement toilets in a lot of the older housing stock here in Cincinnati. Given that most of that stock only has 1 bathroom, a basement toilet was one way for a larger family to cope!
Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
12y
Fascinating and informative "potty talk"!
Back to oil vs gas heat: another point to bring into the mix: where is your oil tank? In the basement or underground? If underground, do you know what shape it is in? Is it leaking yet? I know oil heat is much more common up North than in my neck of the woods, but I'm quite allergic to it when the tanks are underground - to me, these are ticking time bombs with almost unlimited downside potential environmental and regulatory impact). In other words, I'd do my best to get rid of them, if I could.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Mc Keesport, PA · Member since 2012 · 449 posts · 154 votes
12y
Didn't hear any talk about the "Pittsburgh shower." These were makeshift showers put in basements which usually consisted of no walls. They were placed around a floor drain, and sometimes had a toilet right next to them - a.k.a. the "Pittsburgh potty." Oftentimes the toilets are so close to the shower you could simply reposition the showerhead and accomplish two jobs at once - multi-task (not that I'm speaking from experience!).
If you have property in Pittsburgh it's best to disable these showers. I've had occupancy inspectors require that they be either fully functional or disabled. To be fully functional, most will need to have new valves put on and walls put up. Unless you plan on adding another bathroom, best just to disable them IMO.
Real Estate Broker · Cypress, TX · Member since 2013 · 822 posts · 468 votes
12y
I hope you don't take this the wrong way @Account Closed but now is not the time to be asking these questions. You really should have researched and budgeted for these issues prior to purchase. I know you're new, so hopefully this can go into your lessons learned file without sacrificing the profit on this flip :)
Property Manager · Danville, KY · Member since 2013 · 15 posts · 4 votes
12y
@ChristianCarson "The people who are making the deals happen know best."
Christian is spot on - Real estate is hyper-local, go with the champ seller big dog in that area and have him or her do a walk-through with you. Meeting this person and talking them to lunch may be an invaluable asset to you in the future.
Owning a RE/MAX franchise, we are a bit partial - but you just need to know the person who sells the most in your area.
We renovate and sell some houses with fuel oil, propane or electric furnaces, but only if there is no natural gas available.
I wouldnt switch it out because of the age of the furnace, if I could have it certified and it was in good condition, but I wouldswitch it because its fuel oil.
In our area you dramatically limit your buyer, as many will not buy with fuel oil especially if the neighbors have gas, and you risk selling for significantly less. Per my realtor
of the three, fuel oil is considered the least desirable.
Locally the gas company will run the lines to the house, the plumber runs the lines to the meter for a couple hundred bucks, new high efficincy furnace installed under 2,000. My opinion small price to pay for the upgrade.
Is that a typo? I'd love to hear more about getting a new gas furnace installed for under $2,000.
Hartford, CT · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
12y
Asking a realtor would help yes (whether it would change your price point), what the neighbors have helps yes, the cost of running the gas pipe yes (19k is huge but it may decrease your sell price if the area is conducive to gas and you have oil), knowing where that tank is at--if it's underground you may need to spend another 1,200-1,500 for an inspection of the soil because it can be a nightmare if there is seepage (bearing in mind that once this happens you now are responsible for any contamination because you documented it)--all of these responses are hitting on the head what Sharon said. Too late in the game to ask them! they should have been known upfront and built into the rehab/construction budget to account for the cost. This is one of those issues where having a strong team of professionals around you would have had this brought to your attention pre-purchase....Good Luck.
Investor · Canton-Akron, OH · Member since 2012 · 917 posts · 477 votes
12y
@tom d ... our furnaces 95% 65-85k btu, installed are typically between 1850, 1950, depending on size and amount of plenum work.
Installations are done by an independent licensec HVAC contractor, who does his own installs.
Most mid range quality professional installation companies that have multiple crews, vans etc are in the 2,300-2500 range for the same product in this area, there are plenty who will add an extra 1,000 or so to the cost for homeowners who don't negotiate.