Issue repainting existing cabinets on flip. Is contractor right?

Flipper/Rehabber · Bryan, TX · Member since 2014 · 258 posts · 170 votes

I am on my 4 SFR flip. So I have just enough experience to think I know more than I do. We are repainting the existing kitchen cabinets. According to the painter he has put 4 coats of primer and 2 coasts of paint (whitish color) and the wood grain color is bleeding through. He says the issue is that it is a wood grain skin/veneer. He wants me to pick a darker color. I would prefer not to and am skeptical. He is using Home Depot's Glidden Pro Paint. Before I do I want to get options from others who have experienced it. Here are some pic before and after. Thanks!

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Andrew Cordle

Real Estate Consultant · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2014 · 661 posts · 400 votes

11y

I have redone a ton of oak cabinets in my flips.

The best product I have seen is by Rust O Lem and it is called Cabinet Transformation.

You can pick out tons and tons of colors its super simple and for me never bleeds through.

Here is an example.... These looked just like what your originals ones looked like. We sold this property for around 190k.

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Katie Neason
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Bryan, TX · Member since 2014 · 258 posts · 170 votes
11y
@David Oldenburg I have been researching it since Andrew mentioned it. I really want to go this route but I would like to find someone who has experience with it to do the work. So far the people I have contacted have not used it. I may just breakdown and do it myself so I can understand the product (and any excuses that are sure to follow from future contractors concerning it (-:)
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David Oldenburg
Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
11y
@Katie Neason You could do this on your own. Here is how you practice. Oak cabinets are really cheap on craigslist. I have actually purchased a couple of cabinets to practice on, and you can buy a few cabinets or cabinet doors very cheap. If you mess them up, it doesn't matter :-)
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Chas Fabiano
Real Estate Investor · chandler, AZ · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 23 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Katie Neason:

Thought I would provide a little humor. You're going to be really surprised by this... The contractor didn't take to kindly being "told" what to do by a women. He is pissed. He told me "who knows more?", "shellac primer is illegal", I could hire whoever told me how to do his job (so...do any of y'all want to do my cabinets for me?), if he sanded the cabinets they would rust, and I was not allowed to ask any more questions. (-; I reckon he will get over it or move on. Luckily I have had the opportunity to work with contractors and subs for 7 years. I have been here before. My skin is pretty think. Crazy thing is, overall he does a good job but when it comes down to questioning how he is doing something he flips his lid.
Get rid of that ahole. Sign up with Angie's List. You want less headaches not more headaches when doing F & F's.
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Chas Fabiano
Real Estate Investor · chandler, AZ · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 23 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Katie Neason:

@David Oldenburg I have been researching it since Andrew mentioned it. I really want to go this route but I would like to find someone who has experience with it to do the work. So far the people I have contacted have not used it. I may just breakdown and do it myself so I can understand the product (and any excuses that are sure to follow from future contractors concerning it (-:)
I wouldn't go out and buy "practice cabinets", unless you like spending money and cutting into your profits. Take your time and read directions, It's not like we are solving Rubic's cube here or world peace.
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Chas Fabiano
Real Estate Investor · chandler, AZ · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 23 votes
11y
Rust-Oleum Cabinet Restoration Video
Katie,
If all else fails, go to YouTube...LOL
2 Reply
Shawn Root
Real Estate Investor · Seabrook, TX · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 6 votes
11y
Those cabinets must be made out of ironwood.
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Shawn Root
Real Estate Investor · Seabrook, TX · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 6 votes
11y
@Katie Neason
I haven't done much real estate investing yet, but I did have to rehab a house once. Contractors are a pain in the butt. That's understood, but that picture you posted makes me question whether or not there is really four coats of primer and two coats of paint on it. We had our kitchen cabinets painted in the house we live in and they are a manufactured wood product with a wood grain plastic-y kind of veneer. The finished product certainly doesn't look like that. I'm quite certain that the contractors that we used didn't use that many coats. Also, I think my wife would have bounced that guy right out of the house if he talked back to her that way.
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Jim Henderson
Rental Property Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 12 votes
11y
I hate when your wood cabinets rust! Fortunately it only happens in homes where the copper plumbing has been eaten by termites.
6 Reply
Chris Cerny
Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 78 votes
11y
I've never done a flip, but I have used Rustoleum's Cabinet Transformations in my home. (same product mentioned in a previous reply). The results look fantastic! Easy to use, and even the woman writing the check could do it! You go girl! ;)
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David Oldenburg
Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
11y
@Chas Fabiano I have bought used cabinets for like $25 on Craigslist. I don't care about the condition, because I only need a single cabinet door or one cabinet. I guess I don't consider that a lot of money. I price my deals where there is enough profit that $25 or even $50 or $500 extra dollars is not going to impact me in any way. However, I get your point.
1 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Waynesville, NC · Member since 2014 · 408 posts · 121 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Katie Neason Your pic looks like plywood.
You need this product:
This is the answer, and a quart will be plenty for the cabinets. This is the only stuff I've found that will let you paint over pine knots or other woods that bleed through paint. Don't complicate the job. Just put a coat or 2 of this stuff on and paint them any color you want. They will look like new.
1 Reply
Jason K.
Real Estate Agent · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2014 · 59 posts · 30 votes
11y
Dont waste time doing it yourself. Its a big mistake made by people all over. Stick to doing what you do and hire an experienced painter to do the job. Anyone who can follow directions can handle this project. Obviously your guy just needs to be put in his place. I am a contractor and deal w subs a lot. They can be a ***** when things dont go as they imagined they would. Tell him straight forward this is his last job w you unless it works out as you like. He will get it right and use the product you spec if he is worth his weight in cardboard.
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Joshua Rogers
Investor · Collinsville, IL · Member since 2014 · 63 posts · 22 votes
11y
On a side note, I am usually disappointed by water-based Kilz products. Oil-based works well (fumes are another story), but I have yet to find a stain that the water-based/latex Kilz actually covers/hides.
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
11y
Is it really particle board?? Have you had another contractor in there for an opinion on it??
If it isn't particle board then it sounds like this contractor wants to do it their way either for reasons of they can get the materials cheaper and upcharge, they do not like the fumes and process of other products etc., or they want to use a process that involved a lot of time and MONEY to them in labor.
If they can tell a customer they need to do something in a way that takes a lot of labor hours to go slower then they can talk and say that is the best way etc.
If the contractor simply doesn't want to use the product or process you want once you confirm it is not particle board then you want to know that now before they even start. What will likely happen is the contractor reluctantly starts the project but a small way through gives up and now you have a mess someone else has to come in on to clean up. If their enthusiasm and heart isn't into the project do not let them even start.
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Tom Keith
Investor · Longview, TX · Member since 2012 · 631 posts · 186 votes
11y
@Katie Neason
"It seems you have no problem being paid by a woman, so I cannot understand why there would be a problem being told what to do by the woman writing your cheque"
Remember that! Love it. I would go with the package deal. Looks beautiful and mover over contractor!
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Barbara G.
Hartsdale, NY · Member since 2015 · 874 posts · 218 votes
11y
Tell me How much does it cost to have the painter paint/refinish your cabinets
If you bought Loews "Made in China" inexpensive cabinets what would the price difference be and would it be worth the price difference?
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Sylvia B.
Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Katie Neason A lesson in dealing with the male ego:
If you make a suggestion, do it in such a way as to make him think it was his idea! :)
Better idea: Fire his ego and hire a contractor who has learned how to say, "Yes, ma'am" to the boss.
2 Reply
Robert Blanchard
Littleton, CO · Member since 2014 · 195 posts · 72 votes
11y
Where did you find your current Contractor? Do you belong to a REIA? Sometimes, investors in a association will clue you in to what Contractors that they have used and are reliable and good. Sometimes it is better to pay a bit more for a better Contractor than use one that comes in with the lowest bid or hourly quote.
I have used the oil based Kilz with success, but switched to the Zinsser product after reading some good things about it. I think it is even a bit lower priced than the oil based Kilz if I remember right.
Here is a thread about a flipper trying to find out if the price quoted to paint cabinets was in line on not:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/24/topics/1666...
From what I have read on BP, painting cabinets can be a very trying experience.
O/T :Have you already gotten the discount for signing up for a new Home Depot card? You get 10% or so off of your first purchase. If you plan ahead and meet your contractor there with your new card, it can add up quickly. Home Depot finally stopped approving new cards for me after I had 3 active accounts. You also can get special financing if you spend over a certain amount. Just be sure to pay it of before the time frame ends. You might know all of this but it is nice to see it in black and white for the lurkers that are just starting out.
Good luck on your flip and please post the finished pics once it is done in the Success Stories section of BP.
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Chuck W.
Real Estate Investor · salem, OR · Member since 2013 · 105 posts · 32 votes
11y
I am in the middle of a flip and going to paint existing oak cabinets white. He is spraying with 2 coats oil based primer and 1 top coat oil based. He is very good painter with 20 years experience. He said you will see grain from oak after painting. Make sure to use oil based paint. I doubt that the Glidden paint from Home Depot is oil based.
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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Chuck W.:

I am in the middle of a flip and going to paint existing oak cabinets white. He is spraying with 2 coats oil based primer and 1 top coat oil based. He is very good painter with 20 years experience. He said you will see grain from oak after painting.
Make sure to use oil based paint. I doubt that the Glidden paint from Home Depot is oil based.
Chuck,
If you prime those with a shellac primer (like Zinsser B-I-N) you should hide all that grain. Being alcohol based, the shellac primer sets and dries much more quickly than oil and does not give knots or grain the opportunity to absorb the primer and bleed through.
1 Reply
Chas Fabiano
Real Estate Investor · chandler, AZ · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 23 votes
11y
Originally posted by @David Oldenburg:

@Chas Fabiano I have bought used cabinets for like $25 on Craigslist. I don't care about the condition, because I only need a single cabinet door or one cabinet. I guess I don't consider that a lot of money. I price my deals where there is enough profit that $25 or even $50 or $500 extra dollars is not going to impact me in any way. However, I get your point.
You could always give them to charity for a writeoff. I whitewashed some cabinets many years ago and they came out ok. Too much work for me. LOL
1 Reply
Jonathan Godes
Lender/Investor · Glenwood Springs, CO · Member since 2013 · 218 posts · 103 votes
11y
@Nathan Brooks
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