Kitchen layout help?

54 Replies

Rehab newbie here. We started demo on one unit in our new fourplex today. The kitchen alone had 4 different types of cabinets, 2 mismatched counters (that were connected) and once we tore up the first layer of flooring we learned it has FOUR layers of flooring on top of the original hardwoods. 

Anywho, this is our first rehab project. The kitchen is approximately 12x12 with doors on 3 walls and a large window on the 4th wall. Previously the fridge was by the back door with a mobile counter next to it in the corner, stove next to that blocking the window, corner counter connected to the sink. Really hate the stove blocking the window and I'm thinking we could get a 24 inch stove and put it on the same wall as the sink (right side in the photos below) with a small counter between them and then do the fridge in the opposite corner as the stove but I'm unsure what that leaves us for counter space. I suppose I could clean up and keep that butcher block they left behind and place it like an island... but is that really enough prep space to cook a meal? 

On the wall where I'm standing the first couple photos there is a small wall with a pantry next to it (don't mind the mess the previous tenants left behind :( ). Curious what the experts here would do for a layout. How can I avoid blocking the window without just having a weird gap between counters?

Thanks for any suggestions!

I would shrink the window up so it would be 6"-8" above the countertop. Then put switch the sink to under the window, leave the refrigerator in the corner, might need a 6" pan cabinet as standard sink bases are 36". Put stove where the sink is now, over the range microwave with vent above stove, vent out above the cabinets out the window wall. It is always fun finding largely sloppy work left behind. 

Is this home on a slab, crawl space or basement? And how far do you want to go/how much do you want to spend? If you are open to moving gas and plumbing around, I would do as suggested and shorten the window, put the sink under it and the stove on the wall where the sink is now. I would put the fridge on the wall shown in the last picture and create a builtin look by flanking it with pantry cabinets. That would allow for a couple good length runs of countertop/prep space and keeps the fridge out of the primary work zone.

@Sandy Thomas

 it has a basement but its a 4 plex with 2 up, 2 down. This unit is on the second level. I'm not sure moving plumbing is really an option because its aligned with the plumbing for the unit underneath. 

Could I keep all of those same suggestions but just keep the stove and sink where they are? Maybe even plan for a stove with the display low on the front instead of sicking up on the back so the window can stay as large as possible?

... I guess I see where the suggestion comes from - if i keep the stove where it is, I can't mount the microwave and hood. 

can you give dimensions of the walls, with locations of plumbing, Windows and doors?

Originally posted by @Moe Hirsch :

can you give dimensions of the walls, with locations of plumbing, Windows and doors?

 Not yet :) We've only been in there one day. Was just brainstorming. Planning to go measure tonight so we can find appliances and see how much space we have left for cabinets. I'll update when I have them.

It's very hard to give you any help off those pics. Here's a tool that might help you, it's very easy to use. Homestyler

If you can rough out a floor plan (by hand is ok) and put it on here, showing openings, windows, plumbing, gas/electric, we could give you some ideas. 

Medium house plansKaren Margrave, Parlay Investments | [email protected] | http://www.parlayinvestments.com | CA Contractor # 680782

It's tough to visualize based on the pictures you've got.

One thing to keep in mind is the Triangle Rule for kitchens.  Essentially your sink, stove and refrigerator should all be in a triangle from each other.  

HERE is a pretty good explanation and discussion of the rule.  

Good luck!

Medium cluebussol logo3inLinda Weygant CPA, Clue Business Services, Inc. | [email protected] | Podcast Guest on Show #244

Home Depot would lay out the kitchen for you.  The stove looks so terrible in front of the window.  It screams tenament.  Its a must fix situation.

  

anyone who uses a kitchen can lay it out better - that is really what it is about - I love HS for buying wood etc but one does not need their design services!

PS I live in a tenament in NYC and my kitchen table is by the window.

A couple of points. This is a 2 bedroom so think proportionately with the counters meaning it doesn't need to be prep for a lot of people every day. Increase it but Weigh cost vs. return.  A 24 inch stove I wouldn't do if I could help it.  Sometimes you just need to put a big pot on the stove. Also there are lots of standard stoves out there, lots of choice in 30 inch , 24 not as much.  I agree with  the window that  it would be good to uncover it but wouldn't it work to shift the stove left? , its gas so you need to replumb in any case if you move it.  Fridge is the easiest to move, just an outlet, is it possible to go on another wall? It is hard to tell with your description but your window is too tall for the sink option without a major undertaking, my next choice in a kitchen is seating by the window. What would you be looking out on?  and if you were to shrink the window to make it look right  what does that do to your exterior?   I wouldn't move the plumbing if you can help it but a little shift right or left would be no problem if you go to pex. Are you adding a dishwasher? if so it is best to put it next to the sink.

A dishwasher can only go next to a sink, anywhere else and it becomes useless.  This is a problem kitchen because of the small area and all the openings.  The kitchen window is not the place for a stove.  If there is a counter space problem a 24 inch stove will permit more counter space.  If you have  box store, like Home Depot  lay it out at least you will have a measured plan  and a point to begin from. Will you  also be replacing the cabinets?  Depending on the outside material of the house I would consider putting a higher shorter window there.  Is it an eat in kitchen?

I'm guessing on the layout of the room here but would something like this work?

If not maybe you could move the range onto the 3rd wall.


Wow! Thanks for all the responses!

Originally posted by @Colleen F. :

A couple of points. This is a 2 bedroom so think proportionately with the counters meaning it doesn't need to be prep for a lot of people every day. Increase it but Weigh cost vs. return.  A 24 inch stove I wouldn't do if I could help it.  Sometimes you just need to put a big pot on the stove. Also there are lots of standard stoves out there, lots of choice in 30 inch , 24 not as much.  I agree with  the window that  it would be good to uncover it but wouldn't it work to shift the stove left? , its gas so you need to replumb in any case if you move it.  Fridge is the easiest to move, just an outlet, is it possible to go on another wall? It is hard to tell with your description but your window is too tall for the sink option without a major undertaking, my next choice in a kitchen is seating by the window. What would you be looking out on?  and if you were to shrink the window to make it look right  what does that do to your exterior?   I wouldn't move the plumbing if you can help it but a little shift right or left would be no problem if you go to pex. Are you adding a dishwasher? if so it is best to put it next to the sink.

Not planning to add a dishwasher. As is we will only have 2-3 base cabinets. I just don't think there's room. If we shifted the stove one way or the other, I just don't know how we'd avoid an awkward gap between the counter and the stove - the counter wouldn't be any better in front of the window than the stove is so either way it would need to be modified I would think.

If we change the window, we would fix the siding on the exterior so you can't tell the work has been done but I do think it will be costly.

Originally posted by @Barbara G. :

A dishwasher can only go next to a sink, anywhere else and it becomes useless.  This is a problem kitchen because of the small area and all the openings.  The kitchen window is not the place for a stove.  If there is a counter space problem a 24 inch stove will permit more counter space.  If you have  box store, like Home Depot  lay it out at least you will have a measured plan  and a point to begin from. Will you  also be replacing the cabinets?  Depending on the outside material of the house I would consider putting a higher shorter window there.  Is it an eat in kitchen?

 Definitely replacing the cabinets. They've already been torn out. They were an assortment of mismatched pieces and not in good shape at all. The previous tenants did have a 2 person table in there and it didn't feel terribly crowded so you could call it an eat-in but you couldn't fit anything larger. It was awkwardly placed below some upper cabinets. We removed those as well and don't plan to replace them so that should help

Originally posted by @Jacob Edmond :

I'm guessing on the layout of the room here but would something like this work?

If not maybe you could move the range onto the 3rd wall.

Doorways are all correct but the one on the top of your pic is just an opening and there is also a doorway on the wall to the right in the top corner.

I like this layout. Does it matter that there would be 8 feet between the range and the counter? Also the gas line is actually run from next to the sink so we'd have to think about how to get it over to the far wall. Not my area of expertise - would this be easy/relatively low cost for someone to do? 

I wouldn't do the range on the third wall unless we could also fit the fridge without crowding the doorways because it otherwise eliminates having a table in the kitchen.

Was supposed to meet with a contractor this morning to get an estimate on resizing the window and a few other things but he stood me up so I'm back to looking for someone reliable.

To save money I would leave the sink where it is. Move the stove over to the left of the window, that will leave you room above it to install a vent (microwave combo if its in your budget), and extending gas plumbing is much easier that moving the sink. Then put the fridge to the left of the door in the last picture, where the pile of the tenant's stuff is. Fill in with cabinets and counter tops in an L shape along the walls with the sink and stove. Depending on how high the window is off the floor, you might not have to do anything to it to fit the cabinets/counter under it. That would be the most cost effective solution. 

I personally would not put the stove on the same wall as the sink. You would only have a tiny amount of counter space, and the wall with the window would become unusable. If that was your only option due to the gas plumbing, you should add a row of cabinets/counters to the opposite wall, next to the fridge. 

I've remodeled 3 kitchens in the last year and I try not to move plumbing, its just too expensive and requires permits.

Originally posted by @Brandi Carballo :

To save money I would leave the sink where it is. Move the stove over to the left of the window, that will leave you room above it to install a vent (microwave combo if its in your budget), and extending gas plumbing is much easier that moving the sink. Then put the fridge to the left of the door in the last picture, where the pile of the tenant's stuff is. Fill in with cabinets and counter tops in an L shape along the walls with the sink and stove. Depending on how high the window is off the floor, you might not have to do anything to it to fit the cabinets/counter under it. That would be the most cost effective solution. 

I personally would not put the stove on the same wall as the sink. You would only have a tiny amount of counter space, and the wall with the window would become unusable. If that was your only option due to the gas plumbing, you should add a row of cabinets/counters to the opposite wall, next to the fridge. 

I've remodeled 3 kitchens in the last year and I try not to move plumbing, its just too expensive and requires permits.

 Considered this. My only hang up is where do you put a table? Its a 1 br apartment so you don't need a lot of seating but there has to be something.

Also, the window only goes about 12-15 inches from the floor so you couldn't do counters under it. There would be a gap between the stove and the other side. 

Originally posted by @Ashly B. :
Originally posted by @Jacob Edmond:

I'm guessing on the layout of the room here but would something like this work?

If not maybe you could move the range onto the 3rd wall.

Doorways are all correct but the one on the top of your pic is just an opening and there is also a doorway on the wall to the right in the top corner.

I like this layout. Does it matter that there would be 8 feet between the range and the counter? Also the gas line is actually run from next to the sink so we'd have to think about how to get it over to the far wall. Not my area of expertise - would this be easy/relatively low cost for someone to do? 

I wouldn't do the range on the third wall unless we could also fit the fridge without crowding the doorways because it otherwise eliminates having a table in the kitchen.

Was supposed to meet with a contractor this morning to get an estimate on resizing the window and a few other things but he stood me up so I'm back to looking for someone reliable.

 You could fit a small island in the middle if you have 8ft between. Is there enough rooms between the doors on the right wall to put a small table?

I don't know what code is in your area, but here that layout wouldn't work as we're required 12" of counter space on both sides of our ranges.  For the children.

Hi 

There's not a big difference between the price of a kitchen cabinet and an inexpensive dishwasher.  What will you be asking for rent on this apartment?   What is the rent roll on the entire apartments.

Well I guess your next decision will be the window and whether you want to "shrink" it so you can use it as valuable counter space?

Do you have the same layout in the apartment beneath this apartment?

Originally posted by @Ashly B. :
Originally posted by @Brandi Carballo:

To save money I would leave the sink where it is. Move the stove over to the left of the window, that will leave you room above it to install a vent (microwave combo if its in your budget), and extending gas plumbing is much easier that moving the sink. Then put the fridge to the left of the door in the last picture, where the pile of the tenant's stuff is. Fill in with cabinets and counter tops in an L shape along the walls with the sink and stove. Depending on how high the window is off the floor, you might not have to do anything to it to fit the cabinets/counter under it. That would be the most cost effective solution. 

I personally would not put the stove on the same wall as the sink. You would only have a tiny amount of counter space, and the wall with the window would become unusable. If that was your only option due to the gas plumbing, you should add a row of cabinets/counters to the opposite wall, next to the fridge. 

I've remodeled 3 kitchens in the last year and I try not to move plumbing, its just too expensive and requires permits.

 Considered this. My only hang up is where do you put a table? Its a 1 br apartment so you don't need a lot of seating but there has to be something.

 Would there be enough room on the wall where the fridge is now for a small wall mounted fold up/down table? Ikea sells them, they're perfect for 1 or 2 people.