8 Contractor Interviews... 0 quotes

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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8 Contractor Interviews... 0 quotes

Eliot M.
Investor · Norcross, GA · Member since 2016 · 87 posts · 20 votes

Really wanting to get moving on this flip but I can't seem to get any contractors to call me back.  I met with 8 general contractors 11 days ago at the house I want to flip and no one has gotten back with me, even after trying to follow up.  I don't even have any cost estimates yet, let alone a timeline for when work can begin.  This is not a small project, but not a huge project either, and so I figured it would be right in someone's wheelhouse to jump on.  Getting really frustrated and wondering what some other options are.  

I do have 2 or 3 guys I could call to "manage" the project for me, but they are unlicensed and uninsured (more like "handymen" that I would work with on my rentals no problem, but I'm not fully comfortable doing a flip that I want to retail).  Up til now I have wanted to do everything very professionally and only work with 1 fully licensed and insured General Contractor so that I have insurance against liability and legal recourse in case something falls through the attic or something - but jeez now I'm wondering if I should go with my handymen to do it if the big boys won't call me back.  Can I go with handymen to "manage" the project as long as THEY use licensed subs??

Has anyone been through this before?  What am I not doing right?  I had wanted to go with general contractors so they would pull the right permits, do the right inspections so that I could turn around and not have any hiccups when listing for sale.  

To give some context, what I'm needing done is as follows: roof repair, 3-5 floor joists replaced or "sistered", surface mold remediation, 3 bathrooms remodeled, hardwoods sanded/buffed/finished, exterior and interior paint, drywall repair, granite countertops and new appliances in kitchen, new HVAC and ductwork, branches cut away from roof, gable vent repair, insulation.  That should give a rough idea.

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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
10y

Were the 8 all present at the same time? 

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Skyline Properties
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  • Chris Collins
    Rental Property Investor · Novelty, OH · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 27 votes
    10y

    @Eliot M. My only suggestion is to have a conversation in the beginning about time frame before you even have a GC provide an estimate. Give a drop dead date for providing an estimate, and tell them your anticipated window for completion of the project. Ask them straight up if it fits into their schedule.

    If you are looking for an alternate route, im sure there is a licensed subcontractor (HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical) in town who would be willing to GC the project for you.  My company acts as GC every once in a while to coordinate a project.  If you have a contractor you trust, it may not hurt to ask.

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y

    Sounds like you're either going after the wrong contractors, or you're asking for unrealistic budgets.

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  • Eliot M.
    OP
    Investor · Norcross, GA · Member since 2016 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @Chris Collins That's an interesting idea having a subcontractor GC the project.  Yeah I may have been too lenient when discussing timelines.  Even though I am technically flexible on this job, I should've let on that it was urgent.

    @Aaron McGinnis Sounds like you're making assumptions... :) 

    I've not asked for any particular budget numbers from anyone.  Just looking for an accurate, reasonable quote.

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Eliot M.:

    @Chris Collins That's an interesting idea having a subcontractor GC the project.  Yeah I may have been too lenient when discussing timelines.  Even though I am technically flexible on this job, I should've let on that it was urgent.

    @Aaron McGinnis Sounds like you're making assumptions... :) 

    I've not asked for any particular budget numbers from anyone.  Just looking for an accurate, reasonable quote.

    I am, but you did ask if anyone could illuminate what you are not doing right. 

    If you've got 8 straight walk-outs for contractors, there's really only so many possibilities.

    Small time, cheap contractors are flaky and unlikely to give good service. Your only real option is to continue to churn through them until you find one hungry enough to bid. This is a very common situation. 

    More organized and expensive contractors are going to be reliable and give better service, but if they feel like you're looking for cheap prices, they will rarely bother to spend the time writing an estimate they probably won't win.

    I'd be curious to know how you're sourcing your contractors and what sort of contractors you've been interviewing.

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  • Eliot M.
    OP
    Investor · Norcross, GA · Member since 2016 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    So far I've been dealing with the expensive, "organized" guys.  The ones that friends have recommended because they are licensed/insured and did a good job.  But am very tempted to go with the smaller guys if they are the only ones who give me the time of day.  Again, I never once gave any indication of what $ I expected to pay.  Completely silent on the issue and wanted them to throw out the first number.  The funny thing, on this particular project I actually have the room to do everything correctly, up to code, etc and can pay a little more.  On my other rentals, yes I would cut some corners, do things myself, and gone with the cheaper guys, but on this flip I want everything done properly and on time so I can flip for a good retail price.  

    1Reply
  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    10y

    Most of the good ones will probably already have more work than they know what to do with and will charge whatever they think the market will bear. You probably want someone in need of the work that can offer a fair price. Nothing wrong with just having one of your handymen do the entire job himself.

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  • Eliot M.
    OP
    Investor · Norcross, GA · Member since 2016 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    I wonder if there's anything to worry about if I hire a friend, or maybe a handyman to be GC.  But maybe make the deal such that, as the GC, he only has the authority to deal with licensed/insured subs.  So, I pay him to "manage" the project, and he calls a licensed HVAC guy, then a licensed mold guy, etc.  I think that in order to pull a permit you have to be licensed, right.  So the licensed electrician/HVAC guy, who is the sub of my friend/handyman, actually is the one pulling permits.  My friend can go to the job daily and take pics, videos, call me if something goes awry and generally keep me abreast of what's going on.  Just trying to think through this... am I missing anything?  What does a licensed GC get me in additional to my "friend" GC'ing the project?  Not trying to be offensive to any GC's here... just trying to talk this one out and find solutions.

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  • Eliot M.
    OP
    Investor · Norcross, GA · Member since 2016 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    thanks @Jassem A.

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    Were the 8 all present at the same time? 

    Podcast Guest on Show #243
    Skyline Properties
    View Page
    1Reply
  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    10y

    @Eliot M.

    No problem. You probably won't need to pull permits unless you're moving plumbing, walls, doing a service upgrade, or if the property is condemned and even in those situations you can probably get by without pulling permits if the changes are not too drastic. 

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jassem A.:

    @Eliot M.

    No problem. You probably won't need to pull permits unless you're moving plumbing, walls, doing a service upgrade, or if the property is condemned and even in those situations you can probably get by without pulling permits if the changes are not too drastic. 

     Georgia law says permits for any job over $2500.

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  • Chris Collins
    Rental Property Investor · Novelty, OH · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 27 votes
    10y

    @Eliot M. If you are going to higher a friend or handyman to be the GC, I would offer to pay them on performance.

    Be upfront and open with your profit margin on the project and agree upon a percentage of that profit margin, so their success is tied to yours.

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Eliot M.:

    I wonder if there's anything to worry about if I hire a friend, or maybe a handyman to be GC.  But maybe make the deal such that, as the GC, he only has the authority to deal with licensed/insured subs.  So, I pay him to "manage" the project, and he calls a licensed HVAC guy, then a licensed mold guy, etc.  I think that in order to pull a permit you have to be licensed, right.  So the licensed electrician/HVAC guy, who is the sub of my friend/handyman, actually is the one pulling permits.  My friend can go to the job daily and take pics, videos, call me if something goes awry and generally keep me abreast of what's going on.  Just trying to think through this... am I missing anything?  What does a licensed GC get me in additional to my "friend" GC'ing the project?  Not trying to be offensive to any GC's here... just trying to talk this one out and find solutions.

     Only a licensed GC can pull a building permit, which is required when you have more than 1 trade permit.

    Doing business with friends is tough. Firing someone is hard enough, firing a friend typically means ending the friendship while you're at it. 

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  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    10y

    @Aaron McGinnis

    Who says any of the jobs would be over 2500? I can't really think of a job that I would pay over a couple thousand for other than a new roof.

    0Reply
  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jassem A.:

    @Aaron McGinnis

    Who says any of the jobs would be over 2500? I can't really think of a job that I would pay over a couple thousand for other than a new roof.

     Job = total improvements being made, not drywall; paint; plumbing; etc. ... I've seen this strategy tried in front of various building inspectors, the results were not pretty. (Stop work order and fines)

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  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    10y

    @Aaron McGinnis

    Depends where the property is located and whether there is already a stop work order in place that would prevent work from commencing. Some cities will allow the owner or their designee to pull owner permits whether it's an investment property or not. If there are ongoing exterior improvements being made without a permit (or a good amount of debris in the yard) then that might cause an inspector to put in a stop work order.

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jassem A.:

    @Aaron McGinnis

    Depends where the property is located and whether there is already a stop work order in place that would prevent work from commencing. Some cities will allow the owner or their designee to pull owner permits whether it's an investment property or not. If there are visible exterior ongoing improvements being made without a permit or a good amount of debris then that might cause an inspector to put in a stop work order.

     In Georgia, a homeowner permit is only allowed if you're going to inhabit the house.

    Can you try and sneak around getting a permit? Yes... is it a good idea? I guess that depends on your personal risk tolerance.

    0Reply
  • Eliot M.
    OP
    Investor · Norcross, GA · Member since 2016 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    Does anybody know Alabama law regarding this?  The house is in Alabama.  

    0Reply
  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    10y

    @Eliot M.

    What do you need done that would require a permit? You could (try to) get bids on that stuff and then let your guy(s) do the rest.

    0Reply
  • Chris Collins
    Rental Property Investor · Novelty, OH · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 27 votes
    10y

    @Eliot M.- Contact the building department in the city where the property is located, they will tell you what is required.  In my area (Northeast Ohio) , every city has different rules regarding permits, and who can pull them. 

    1Reply
  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Eliot M.:

    Does anybody know Alabama law regarding this?  The house is in Alabama.  

     Oh geez. Totally different game, then. I saw Norcross and assumed Metro Atlanta.

    0Reply
  • Phil Earley
    Property Manager · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 261 posts · 199 votes
    10y

    I'd go back and ask the expensive "organized" guys if they have any talented sub contractors they use on an "on call" basis who may be looking for immediate work.   Years ago my personal home was too small of a job for the big guys and they referred me to phenomenal one man show.    

    0Reply
  • Rolanda Eldridge
    Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    10y

    Network with local investors or realtors to find out who they're using.  Subbing out plumbing, electrical, HVAC and roofing always best.  Most handy men can complete carpentry/painting....

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  • Angel Dejesus
    Businessmen · Boston, MA · Member since 2014 · 47 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    I didn't read everyone's post but I just finished a rehab that had to fire the first GC and look for another one. To say the least if this a 1 or 2 family in Massachusetts the owner can pull permits. It's only if it's a 3 and above. Which I did buy a triple decker and couldn't do the work myself. Finished the project but not upto my standards. So now I know I need to be present at all times. But keep looking. There's apps that help with this. 

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  • Brian Turnbough
    Investor · Big Spring, TX · Member since 2016 · 140 posts · 59 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Eliot M.:

    I wonder if there's anything to worry about if I hire a friend, or maybe a handyman to be GC.  But maybe make the deal such that, as the GC, he only has the authority to deal with licensed/insured subs.  So, I pay him to "manage" the project, and he calls a licensed HVAC guy, then a licensed mold guy, etc.  I think that in order to pull a permit you have to be licensed, right.  So the licensed electrician/HVAC guy, who is the sub of my friend/handyman, actually is the one pulling permits.  My friend can go to the job daily and take pics, videos, call me if something goes awry and generally keep me abreast of what's going on.  Just trying to think through this... am I missing anything?  What does a licensed GC get me in additional to my "friend" GC'ing the project?  Not trying to be offensive to any GC's here... just trying to talk this one out and find solutions.

     This seems to be a problem these days. I have a co-worker trying to flip a house. The contractors come out and give him an off the wall bid and the others don't call back. I guess they have so much work that they can't handle anymore. 

    What makes you think that your friend can get them to respond to him? As frustrated as you are about them not responding to you, how are you going to be towards him if he can't meet your expectations?

    I think you might be better off trying to find and manage your own GCs. 

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