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Question

The small house I'm buying needs to be repiped. The person who is doing it said it could be done in one day, with a full crew. Do I still need to create a contract for a job that lasts this short a time period? Or would I just pay them the total amount at the end of the day, assuming they finish in one day? (sorry if this is a silly question)

Account Closed · Answer

Contract, yes.

Permits? I would. But at the very minimum, make sure your plumber is licensed and insured.  There is a  possibility that he doesn't want a permit, because he isn't a licensed contractor.

If you get a permit, the inspector comes and makes sure the job has been done correctly. Can you look at the plumbing by yourself and know whether it is correctly done?

Lack of permits for major work can become an issue when you sell.

Bill Gulley · Answer

Hey, pull the permit! Plumbers don't want to be checked, they can hurry in and hurry out without a hassel. If the inspector finds something wrong, they have to fix it and they don't get paid to fix their mistakes. As to finding other stuff, a plumbing permit is for plumbing and the can't go to electrical or HVAC! You can ask the building regs people how they operate and what they do, they will generally tell you. So just call them and say "I'm thinking of doing this....I don't want to get into other things as I will be having things done a little bit over time....perhaps you have not made up your mind as to you using the home as your residence or a rental, so ask them the difference it might make. It would be a good thing for the inspector to inspect for you to make sure you got a good job for your money! Putting PEX in is not really life threatning like HVAC or electrical could be, so if you are comfortable with it,,,whatever, but if it were required, I'd pull the permit. Bill

Jon Holdman · Answer

What does "repiped" mean?  If you mean rip out and replace all the plumbing, then this is a significant job.  This is likely to be a job that requires permits.  Who gets those?  What about inspections?  If this is a permit job, verify the specific contractor with the city or county who's issuing the permits.

A significant plumbing job typically requires two inspections, one for rough (all the pipes in place and capped off) and one for finish (hooked up to fixtures.)

Put in writing exactly what is to be done.  Specify EXACTLY which pipes are to be replaced (ask me how I know this), when the work is to be done, and when payments are to be made.  Specify exactly what material is to be used and who pays for it.  Inspect the work yourself before you make any payments.

J Scott · Answer

What happens if they don't finish at the end of the day, and they demand partial (or full) payment?
          
          What happens if the price they quoted you before the job started is less than what they tell you when they're complete?
          
          What happens if they only finish half the job and tell you that's what was agreed upon?
          
What happens when they finish the job in one day and expect a big bonus for finishing so quickly and say that you agreed to it?

What happens if they finish the job, file for unemployment, tell the IRS that they were your employees, and put you on the hook for tax withholding and FICA payments?  (unlikely but not impossible)
          
          There are a lot of things that can go wrong in "one day"...why risk it?
          
Along the same lines, have you verified their contractor license, liability insurance and workman's comp insurance is up-to-date?

Bill Gulley · Answer

Hi, there are no silly questions here except the ones not asked!

You don't need a full blown contract, but you should have at least a Bid Sheet or Work Order that describes the work to be accomplished, time allowed for the job and the maximum charge. If you are re-doing the plumbing/water supply lines, I would suggest that you check into PEX, best thing since romax. Very easy to install and cheaper than copper, probably higher than PVC, but this stuff will not burst in cold weather. The ease of installation should bring your labor rate down. Use a manifold, some jake legs will want to run it as they would PVC, you'll lose control over each supply line which is a big plus for repairs, especially in a rental. Use the manifold. Didn't mean to go there, but I just did a house with it and will be doing my cabin at the lake as well! Great stuff! Bill

Jon Holdman · Answer

Yep, I ended up in the same position.  I ended up hiring a GC and getting permits on the rehab in my gallery.  About an extra $1000 in unbudgeted expense, but a load off my mind to not have to worry about it.

Bienes Raices · Answer

thanks Jon, for that detailed post.

I'd rather just go through the pain of getting permits than go through the worry of "what if?" as I own the property.

Jon Holdman · Answer

Don't bother calling other plumbers.  Call the building department (or whatever) in the city (or county) that has jurisdiction.

I'll guarantee you, though, if you're talking about ripping out all the plumbing in the house and replacing it, a permit is absolutely needed.  You will also have to bring all the plumbing up to current codes.  You will most likely have to use a licensed plumber.  What that means varies from place to place.  Here it means licensed by the state, but also a license in the specific city where the property is.  I'm guessing your plumber is not properly licensed.

In some locations, the property owner can pull permits.  In many locations, like many of the ones around here, the owner can only pull permits for a property the occupy.  For any other property, either a specific licensed sub, such as a plumber of HVAC guy, can pull the permits for their work, or a licensed general contractor must pull the permits.  If a GC pulls permits, and there is plumbing, electric, or something else that requires a specific license, the GC must provide the license for the subs.

Sorry, I know that's not what you were expecting.  I've been in that position, and its not pleasant.  But the alternatives are worse.  If you do the work without permits, you risk getting caught and fined, and potentially being made to rip out work so the inspectors can verify things are done correctly.  Plus, you will get a black eye with the building department, and ANY future job will get extra scrutiny.

When you sell, you will have to fill out a sellers disclosure, and it will specifically ask if unpermitted work was done.  Or, you could have a problem and the insurance company would deny your claim if they found there was unpermitted work.

Bienes Raices · Answer

I was also thinking of also just calling a bunch of plumbing co.'s in Orlando to see what the general practice is about pulling permits in this area for something like this.

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