Owner refuse to leave the property after closing! (Philadelphia)

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Owner refuse to leave the property after closing! (Philadelphia)

Mike Dinh
Marcus Hook, PA · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 3 votes

I purchased a property in South Philly. Everything closed without a problem and was told to give the former owner 2 days to move out, so I did. Then I contacted the owner and they asked for 4 weeks to move out because they haven't found a place to live. As you know time is money so I refused. I told them I can only let them stay for a week plus give them some assistance to move. They agreed. I'm afraid I would have to move them out through eviction, which can be long and painful. I was told I can have the utilities turned off, since I owned the house and they are technically trespassing. Also I was told I can go to local sheriff and ask to have them removed from my property. There is no lease agreement or any kind of paperwork indicated that they can stay after closing. Please give advise on this situation. Thank you

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
8y

What do you mean, "...was told to give the former owner 2 days to move out...?"

Who told you that?  Why did you listen?  It's your house...nobody should tell you what to do with it.  If it was your agent who told you this, get them involved and make them help you (though they may not be able to).

Regardless, consider this a lesson learned...  NEVER allow the seller to stay in the property after closing unless you have a well-defined agreement, and unless you're willing to take a chance of having to evict/eject the tenant if they don't leave.

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  • Account Closed
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 140 posts · 37 votes
    8y

    You can't evict them since there is no lease. The term for removing them would be ejectment. I recently read a similar post, where the owner had to file for ejectment through court. It was a long and painful process. I followed that post for like 2 months. Not even sure how that ended. I don't believe you can just go and ask the sheriff to remove them. And the judge can also order the former owner to pay you compensation.

    But every case is different.

    0Reply
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    8y

    What do you mean, "...was told to give the former owner 2 days to move out...?"

    Who told you that?  Why did you listen?  It's your house...nobody should tell you what to do with it.  If it was your agent who told you this, get them involved and make them help you (though they may not be able to).

    Regardless, consider this a lesson learned...  NEVER allow the seller to stay in the property after closing unless you have a well-defined agreement, and unless you're willing to take a chance of having to evict/eject the tenant if they don't leave.

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  • Paulette Midgette
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 276 votes
    8y

    @Mike Dinh, a word of advice stop listening to "They. "  They have and are continuing to give you bad advice.  You cannot turn off the electricity nor can you change locks, etc.  The Sheriff will most certainly help you with evicting tenants after you have completed the eviction process but without the appropriate court orders the Sheriff won't act. 

    If these people don't leave on their own the only way to get these people to leave is to evict them.  However, if you don't have the proper licenses with Philadelphia I am not sure how you do that. 

    Although you don't have a written contract with them, knowing at closing the previous owners would remain in the property and allowing them to stay may constitute an oral rental agreement (which is binding in Philadelphia).  I have posted the specifics about this in the forum previously, a quick search on my name should bring it up. 

    Did you use a licensed RE agent for this purchase.  If yes, can you please PM me with your agents name.  I want to make sure I never use his/her services.  Any Agent that would not strongly recommend that you have a lease agreement or paperwork stating the terms of the previous owners occupancy after closing did not live up to his/her fiduciary to you.  I agree with @J Scott get your agent involved.

    4Reply
  • Mike Dinh
    OP
    Marcus Hook, PA · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    @J Scott: Thank you for the input. It was my mistake as this is the fist house I ever buy in Philadelphia. I thought I did it as a courtesy for them but I guess it back fired. I talked to them and they agreed to move out of the house in 1 week. I guess we ll see. 

    @Account Closed:  I will keep you posted on this situation. Thank you

    0Reply
  • Giang Nguyen
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 22 posts · 11 votes
    8y
    Naive question, but can't the title company do something?? Shouldn't they not transfer the money if the conditions weren't met? I would understand if it's some other tenants (which the conditions of closing should still be a vacant property, unless you want to deal with the eviction yourself given a bigger discount on the property). But if it's the owner, shouldn't the title company have more pull in this situation? Or they can't cause it wasn't a written condition? Anyways, best of luck!! Please keep us updated on the process!
    0Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    8y

    My personal rule is "don't close until its empty".  And I have delayed closings because the property was occupied.  At this point you need to speak with a landlord/tenant attorney and find out what the process is in your area.  While the details may vary, they are tenants.  

    3Reply
  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Giang Nguyen:

    Naive question, but can't the title company do something?? Shouldn't they not transfer the money if the conditions weren't met? I would understand if it's some other tenants (which the conditions of closing should still be a vacant property, unless you want to deal with the eviction yourself given a bigger discount on the property). But if it's the owner, shouldn't the title company have more pull in this situation?
    Or they can't cause it wasn't a written condition?
    Anyways, best of luck!! Please keep us updated on the process!

    Title companies are not involved with possession issues... that is especially so in a case such as this where the buyer agreed to some sort of post-settlement occupancy. If there was some rent-back arrangement, the title company might hold a damage escrow or disburse funds as agreed between the parties, but otherwise title is out of this. 

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  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    I will agree with most of what's said. If (and that's a big IF) you agree to the previous owner remaining in the house make sure it is in the contract for the length of time and money is held in escrow from the sale to cover any issues. IE sale will take place on October 17th posession will be October 25th for the cost of $350 and $3500 will be held in escrow until property is in posession of buyer.

    1Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    Hind site is 20/20 and advice is cheep.

    First make sure you arrange to have the power cut off the day of his move out. I would go to the property the day he has agreed to move out with a few large friends and assist to place his belongings on the front lawn. A few subtle hints should  help encourage his move out. Hopefully he has made plans otherwise try to have as much outside as quickly as possible encase the police show up. If they do you talk to the police explaining the situation while your "friends" disappear. Make sure you have all the paperwork you need to prove ownership. Plead ignorance regarding the hydro. Do not assist in moving the stuff back into the house if the police rule in his favour. 

    If the police do stop the move out you and your friends will likely need to visit him again and have a serious talk. 

    In a situation like this apologies are more productive than permission.

    You should have the agreement to move out in writing.

    0Reply
  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    I am not an expert in Philly. However I have a feeling that while Canada may allow you to just cut off power and show up with large men to forcibly remove them, your results may be less effective in Philly. I would recommend brushing up on local laws before deciding to go that route.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 140 posts · 37 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    Hind site is 20/20 and advice is cheep.

    First make sure you arrange to have the power cut off the day of his move out. I would go to the property the day he has agreed to move out with a few large friends and assist to place his belongings on the front lawn. A few subtle hints should  help encourage his move out. Hopefully he has made plans otherwise try to have as much outside as quickly as possible encase the police show up. If they do you talk to the police explaining the situation while your "friends" disappear. Make sure you have all the paperwork you need to prove ownership. Plead ignorance regarding the hydro. Do not assist in moving the stuff back into the house if the police rule in his favour. 

    If the police do stop the move out you and your friends will likely need to visit him again and have a serious talk. 

    In a situation like this apologies are more productive than permission.

    You should have the agreement to move out in writing.

     I have recently read an article talking about Philadelphia landlord being arrested for doing what you are suggesting.

    1Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    Hind site is 20/20 and advice is cheep.

    First make sure you arrange to have the power cut off the day of his move out. I would go to the property the day he has agreed to move out with a few large friends and assist to place his belongings on the front lawn. A few subtle hints should  help encourage his move out. Hopefully he has made plans otherwise try to have as much outside as quickly as possible encase the police show up. If they do you talk to the police explaining the situation while your "friends" disappear. Make sure you have all the paperwork you need to prove ownership. Plead ignorance regarding the hydro. Do not assist in moving the stuff back into the house if the police rule in his favour. 

    If the police do stop the move out you and your friends will likely need to visit him again and have a serious talk. 

    In a situation like this apologies are more productive than permission.

    You should have the agreement to move out in writing.

     A self help eviction like this is a sure way to make a bad situation much worse.

    2Reply
  • Yuriy Skripnichenko
    Property Manager · Phialdelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 509 posts · 627 votes
    8y

    You absolutely can not cut off any utilities. And can not evict current occupants yourself. Cops won't help until you have a court order and a Sherif's writ. 

    If you try to do either they (the occupants) can call cops on you. 

    @Mike Dinh

    Do not wait a week. Give a 10-days notice to current occupants. This will allow you to file for ejection with the Phila court after 10 days. Without the notice you can not start the process. Also talk to an eviction attorney. They will tell you exactly what are you options.

    You can offer the occupants to help them find a place to live (if that's the only thing that holding them from moving out) 

    0Reply
  • Joe White
    Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
    8y

    This isn't an eviction. Its an ejectment and that is much worse. In the future you shouldn't take the property like this. Your deal had what is called a Final Walkthrough right before settlement, where you walk through and confirm the house is how you agreed in the Agreement of Sale (AOS) - this includes the sellers being out.

    Certainly don't turn utilities off or take doors off hinges. Don't bring law enforcement there as they might inform the holdover to their rights. Which is bad for you.

    I hate to say this but you might want to threaten them legally, to try if it works; then cash for keys. An ejectment isn't something you will enjoy if drawn out.

    1Reply
  • Brian Dalton
    Maplewood, NJ · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 10 votes
    8y

    Absolutely agree with @Mike Cumbie regarding holding funds in escrow. We closed on a duplex here in our town not too long ago and allowed the previous owners to occupy their old unit for a predefined time period that was stipulated in the contract. In turn, they paid us rent for the time they were staying, and we also held $10k in escrow after closing to ensure they were leaving (they were basically hoarders and had a lifetime of junk to get rid of). The funds weren't released until after we completed a final walk through after they left.  Agree with @J Scott, who was "they"? and where was your lawyer when all this went down? If they advised you to go along with this, you need a new lawyer. 

    2Reply
  • Eric Cross
    Investor · Dacula, GA · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 12 votes
    8y
    A friend of mine in Las Vegas had this happen to him. Guess what he did! He knocked on the front door they opened it up and he threw two full boxes of crickets into their house. 1,000 crickets 😂😂😂😂😂 They were out the next day.
    4Reply
  • Orita Issartel
    Real Estate Investor / Realtor · Miami, FL · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 67 votes
    8y

    I guess enough was posted about this situation and I agree with some of it. You cannot take the law into your hands. 

    Next time, if it's possible, work with a Realtor that knows the laws, contracts, ethics, etc...As a buyer there's no cost to you!  

    Never take possession of a property without a proper final walk thru! If there's a glitch measures should be taken before closing. 

    Good luck! I hope they'll move out as they say.

    0Reply
  • Jake Recz
    Manville, NJ · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 87 votes
    8y

    This is what is wrong with this industry... You buy a car, pay cash, get title. If the seller refuses to get out of the car you call the police and have them kick that person out of YOUR property you rightfully own after paying for it, technically.

    You buy a house, you own it, you can't do anything. Gotta go through courts and piss money away and pray it's quick. 

    I guess there is this odd idea in this country (and not only this country) where you can't kick people out because its their "home!". They sleep and eat there etc. Like it should matter. Title to the property, I own it. Call the police. They're squatters, no lease. Throw them to the curb. End of story. 

    0Reply
  • Mike Dinh
    OP
    Marcus Hook, PA · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    Hey guys, update on the situation. We finally got the original owner to get out of the house. We were able to work out a solution for her and her kids to move out of the house and get into an apartment. We had to take the time and help her move but it was all worth it. Thank you guys for all the inputs.

    0Reply
  • Mike Dinh
    OP
    Marcus Hook, PA · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    I want to also point out that I closed this house within 7 days, literally. Wholesaler informed me that the house was going to to foreclose in 1 week and we have 7 days to close. We ended up have to extend the deadline of the sheriff sale for 1 day to be able to close on time. That was the reason why I took the gamble of not making sure the owner leave the property before closing, and I think I will never do that again. Lesson learned

    1Reply
  • Joe White
    Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
    8y

    Actually I just re-read @Paulette Midgette and I think she is right (and I'm wrong). This might not be an ejectment; but an eviction. You gave them a license to stay, an oral agreement. This might constitute a lease. Its true that real estate agreements are considered to paper reliant for validity. But she might have a point. I'm curious to hear.

    0Reply
  • Mike Dinh
    OP
    Marcus Hook, PA · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Eric Cross:

    A friend of mine in Las Vegas had this happen to him.
    Guess what he did!
    He knocked on the front door they opened it up and he threw two full boxes of crickets into their house. 1,000 crickets
    😂😂😂😂😂
    They were out the next day.

     That is a crazy idea. Did your friend get in trouble? 

    0Reply
  • Eric Cross
    Investor · Dacula, GA · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    Nope , they knew they were in the wrong.   Who are they going to plead their case too. 

    0Reply
  • Paulette Midgette
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 276 votes
    8y

    @Mike Dinh, I am sorry happy that this worked out and you didn't have to change locks or throw crickets through any front doors!

    0Reply
  • Michael Plante
    Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dinh:

    I want to also point out that I closed this house within 7 days, literally. Wholesaler informed me that the house was going to to foreclose in 1 week and we have 7 days to close. We ended up have to extend the deadline of the sheriff sale for 1 day to be able to close on time. That was the reason why I took the gamble of not making sure the owner leave the property before closing, and I think I will never do that again. Lesson learned

     How was abstract of title, title search and survey done in 7 days?

    0Reply
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