Is connected overages .com with Bob Diamond legit?
Realtor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 4 votes
Is connected overages .com with Bob Diamond legit?
Most Popular Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes@Tanganika Darden
There are “finder” companies locating all kinds of unclaimed funds in government trust accounts. The successful ones operate on a relatively large scale, often nationwide, and act as finder for many types of unclaimed funds, not solely tax overages.
It’s a fairly sophisticated operation, with an unusually long time lag between first identifying the unclaimed funds, tracking the beneficiaries, obtaining a contract from said beneficiaries, gathering all the documents needed for “proof”, dealing with numerous government agencies, and finally hopefully having your client receive the funds and you getting paid. I say hopefully because many of these payments are reduced or altogether eliminated by any amounts owed by the beneficiary to other government agencies, such as income taxes, loans, etc.
Bottom line is that this is a business, requiring all the skills and assets and expenses necessary for all businesses. My beef with the people who teach this are
(1) they imply this is somehow related to real estate investing; it is not
(2) they imply you can be successful with only the knowledge they teach; this is not true, you need managerial and business skills and knowledge to a degree way beyond the scope of the “training” they provide.
(3) they imply you can successfully do this on a part time basis; it’s actually a full time business demanding all of your attention
(4) they imply competition is limited; competition is actually fierce, except for the deals on which there is no profit.
Additionally, this industry is state regulated, by the state in which the property is located. For example in Texas a finder is limited to a maximum fee of 10% of the net amount received by the beneficiary, thereby eliminating from profitability a significant percentage of deals.
This is the same over hyped, over promoted, over promised, under performing opportunity as note broker, house wholesaler, etc. yes, some people (who run it as a full time business) do well, just as some people who run automotive manufactures, chemical plants, and construction companies do well. It is a legitimate business, but that doesn’t mean you have the experience, skills, knowledge, time, dedication or capital to be successful. What it’s not is an easy, profitable, part time business.
50 Replies
- 7yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
In my opinion this is not worth pursueing. Tax Collectors don't like this and they will make it very difficult to impossible to make this work.
- 7yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
@Tanganika Darden
There are “finder” companies locating all kinds of unclaimed funds in government trust accounts. The successful ones operate on a relatively large scale, often nationwide, and act as finder for many types of unclaimed funds, not solely tax overages.
It’s a fairly sophisticated operation, with an unusually long time lag between first identifying the unclaimed funds, tracking the beneficiaries, obtaining a contract from said beneficiaries, gathering all the documents needed for “proof”, dealing with numerous government agencies, and finally hopefully having your client receive the funds and you getting paid. I say hopefully because many of these payments are reduced or altogether eliminated by any amounts owed by the beneficiary to other government agencies, such as income taxes, loans, etc.
Bottom line is that this is a business, requiring all the skills and assets and expenses necessary for all businesses. My beef with the people who teach this are
(1) they imply this is somehow related to real estate investing; it is not
(2) they imply you can be successful with only the knowledge they teach; this is not true, you need managerial and business skills and knowledge to a degree way beyond the scope of the “training” they provide.
(3) they imply you can successfully do this on a part time basis; it’s actually a full time business demanding all of your attention
(4) they imply competition is limited; competition is actually fierce, except for the deals on which there is no profit.
Additionally, this industry is state regulated, by the state in which the property is located. For example in Texas a finder is limited to a maximum fee of 10% of the net amount received by the beneficiary, thereby eliminating from profitability a significant percentage of deals.
This is the same over hyped, over promoted, over promised, under performing opportunity as note broker, house wholesaler, etc. yes, some people (who run it as a full time business) do well, just as some people who run automotive manufactures, chemical plants, and construction companies do well. It is a legitimate business, but that doesn’t mean you have the experience, skills, knowledge, time, dedication or capital to be successful. What it’s not is an easy, profitable, part time business.
- Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
I participated in a multifamily investing program with Bob Diamond about 6 years ago. It resulted in bad news all the way around. Had to hire my own attny to have Diamond release me from a fairly draconian agreement. I suggest you move on to more credible sources IMHO
- Attorney · Chatham, NJ · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 40 votes7y
I occasionally have to do unclaimed property claims related to the estate work I do as the attorney for an estate (unclaimed funds in the decedent's name). Some times the service is provided as a courtesy because the amount is typically relatively small. I can't imagine trying to turn it into a full time business unless it is the way that @Don Konipol described it (i.e. volume, lots of staff, good processes to identify and claim funds, etc.).
Maybe other states make the process easier (but in all honestly NJ is fairly reasonable in how it approaches the issue) and have much larger amounts in question, which might make it profitable, but you would have to look state by state.
- Realtor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 4 votes7y
@Tanganika Darden
Thank you to everyone that responded! 😊
- Specialist · Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 136 posts · 109 votes7y
Maybe also see other threads:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/...
https://www.biggerpockets.com/... - Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 20 votes6y
Hello, I found this thread when I did a search for Bob Diamond after receiving an email referring to him, (which I will paste below).
I also want to respond to Don above, who obviously knows something about this business, but not all of his points are valid.
First off, here is the email I received recently which brought me to this page:"I just purchased your online download. I really wish I had found out about your site, before I spent money on Bob Diamonds course, that let me with so many questions.
I have literally learned so much for just reading your website, that I happened to stumble across, because I was looking for more information online about the unclaimed funds/overage business.
I truly gave so much value on your site alone, which made me purchase the download. I hope to learn so much more. Now I'm going to try to get my money back from the other course, because it didn't help me at all. I guess the one good thing is that I found your course.
Thanks again for great content!!!"
That email was just based on the content of the website. If you take a look at it, you will see it is packed with information. It sounds like there is more free information o the site than there is in the other package she purchased. I couldn't believe it when I looked at that site and saw it was offered for $1497!
The Guide we sell goes for less than a 10th of that and I'm sure offers a lot more information.
This is where I want to address Don's comments:
As I mentioned Don does have some valid points. Yes, it is true, you have to treat this like a legitimate business and you have to have the skills to do it. However:
"(1) they imply this is somehow related to real estate investing; it is not"
We specifically state that this is only for State unclaimed funds. I get many questions from people asking if this is for overages or surplus funds and let them know it is not"(2) they imply you can be successful with only the knowledge they teach; this is not true, you need managerial and business skills and knowledge to a degree way beyond the scope of the “training” they provide.
In our Guide, one of the sections concerns starting up your own business and working from home. It covers such details as registering your business, opening a bank account, and printing stationary. There are several step by step instructions on actual claims where I'm basically holding your hand showing you what to do. We also provide all of the letters that we send out as well with blank spaces to put your information in.
This isn't rocket science! It's so easy, it's really just a matter of getting the lists, searching online for the claimant and then sending out the proper forms to both the claimant and the state.
If you look on the testimonials on the site they are legitimate. The person that left one six years after purchasing the Guide made over $200,000 last year.
"(3) they imply you can successfully do this on a part time basis; it’s actually a full time business demanding all of your attention"
No, you can do this part time. Even if you send out one letter a day, that is five a week, twenty per month. Let's just say you send out letters in the $20,000 range. Even if you get one hit on that and charge 10% your making $2000.
"(4) they imply competition is limited; competition is actually fierce, except for the deals on which there is no profit."I'm not sure where he is getting that from. I never run into someone saying they have already been contacted. When I first started out as a third party tracer for HUD many years ago I did, but the states have millions of accounts and hardly anyone doing this. Just go to Ohio or Pennsylvania unclaimed states websites and you can see the list of finders there. Compared to the numbers of accounts available, forget about it!
"Additionally, this industry is state regulated, by the state in which the property is located. For example in Texas a finder is limited to a maximum fee of 10% of the net amount received by the beneficiary, thereby eliminating from profitability a significant percentage of deals."
Yes, this is true, but even in states where you can charge more such as Colorado, we still only charge 10%. 10% seems fair and is more agreeable for the clients.
I also wanted to point out that we don't disappear on anyone after they purchase the Guide. I answer all emails. The truth is though, we don't get that many emails because so much information is covered.
I hope this helps answer any questions regarding state unclaimed funds.
Thank you,
Mark
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
@Tanganika Darden
There are “finder” companies locating all kinds of unclaimed funds in government trust accounts. The successful ones operate on a relatively large scale, often nationwide, and act as finder for many types of unclaimed funds, not solely tax overages.
It’s a fairly sophisticated operation, with an unusually long time lag between first identifying the unclaimed funds, tracking the beneficiaries, obtaining a contract from said beneficiaries, gathering all the documents needed for “proof”, dealing with numerous government agencies, and finally hopefully having your client receive the funds and you getting paid. I say hopefully because many of these payments are reduced or altogether eliminated by any amounts owed by the beneficiary to other government agencies, such as income taxes, loans, etc.
Bottom line is that this is a business, requiring all the skills and assets and expenses necessary for all businesses. My beef with the people who teach this are
(1) they imply this is somehow related to real estate investing; it is not
(2) they imply you can be successful with only the knowledge they teach; this is not true, you need managerial and business skills and knowledge to a degree way beyond the scope of the “training” they provide.
(3) they imply you can successfully do this on a part time basis; it’s actually a full time business demanding all of your attention
(4) they imply competition is limited; competition is actually fierce, except for the deals on which there is no profit.
Additionally, this industry is state regulated, by the state in which the property is located. For example in Texas a finder is limited to a maximum fee of 10% of the net amount received by the beneficiary, thereby eliminating from profitability a significant percentage of deals.
This is the same over hyped, over promoted, over promised, under performing opportunity as note broker, house wholesaler, etc. yes, some people (who run it as a full time business) do well, just as some people who run automotive manufactures, chemical plants, and construction companies do well. It is a legitimate business, but that doesn’t mean you have the experience, skills, knowledge, time, dedication or capital to be successful. What it’s not is an easy, profitable, part time business.
Don, Another all time great post..
I gave this a try as i had a Joe Kaiser student who i had done some fix and flip funding for and he talked me into it.. I provided them office space telephones and the absolute necessity of having lexus nexus.. We closed a few deals but its very tough.. the skill set is that of a private detective.. and then being able to close the deals..
I can see how a few individuals could stumble into deals. but long term.. the only one making money here is the guy selling the so called system
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes6y
@Jay Hinrichsi wish I could like this post 100x
Hit the nail on the head with all these guru training courses. Reality of it is if you want to profit typically you need to make a business out of it and only approx 5% of people are actually cut out for handling the operations of a business - this is why you see so many so called “tire kickers” but most of the gurus don’t care and they know right from the start 99% of the time which trainees have a chance to succeed or not but that doesn’t stop them from taking peoples $.
7e investments53 Reviews - Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 20 votes6y
I guess nobody saw my reply to what Don said. Anyway, I wanted to make it clear I was referring to state unclaimed funds, which is very easy, and you can do it part time, not the tax overages that was the original topic of discussion.
Thank you,
Mark
- 6yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
@Mark Norick, Its not that nobody saw your reply to what I said, its that (1) you are BIASED by virtue of the fact that you are selling a business opportunity in a related space; and (2) you have a total of 2 posts on BP. And as you say, your product is NOT real estate related. So, why are you posting a non real estate business opportunity on a real estate website?
- Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 20 votes6yDon,
Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I didn't realize this was a strictly real estate website until after I posted. I just happened to receive that email from someone that purchased my Guide and did a search to see who this Bob Diamond was and landed on this site. If you don't know what it's about, the name "biggerpockets" can really relate to anything.
Then, I wanted to reply to your post because you mentioned unclaimed funds in general, but then you said your beef was people that teach this imply this is related to real estate. I don't, although I do receive inquiries from people asking if it is. Maybe it's because they're looking for alternatives and it's $1500 vs $47.
I also don't "overhype or overpromise". I let people know this is not a get rich quick scheme and like, any business, you get out of it what you put into it. I also help as much as I can afterwards (through email) which is why someone felt compelled to contact me because she wanted to leave a testimonial six years after purchasing the Guide.
Anyway, yes not real estate related, thanks again for getting back to me, and good luck with whatever you do.
Thank you,
Mark - Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 7 votes6y
To Mark Norick how do I get your guide?
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 2 votes6y
@Mark Norick there are too many "gurus" charging insane amounts of money for their programs. All of them promise their method is the BEST. What is the name of the program you're referencing? Thanks in advance for your response.
- Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 1 vote6y
@Mark Norick where can I purchase this “The Guide” . I just joined so I could ask as I don’t see any link. Thank you for your frank insight!
- Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 1 vote6y
@Mark Norick Where can I purchase this “The Guide” . I just joined so I could ask, as I don’t see any link. Thank you for your frank insight!
- Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 20 votes6y
You can go to http://moneyfinderbiz.com
Thank you,
Mark
- Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 2 votes6y
WOW! I sincerely thank you ALL for so many vital answers. My husband and I are so grateful.
God Bless
- 6yMichael BachmannPro MemberRental Property Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 17 votes
I’ve done this in Kansas City Missouri for a few years part time. First off last year at our annual tax sale the largest overage that year was $40,000 over the tax due. How do I know this? One I bought that house and 2 I attended each day of the sale and recorded how much each sold for. Most properties were less than $15,000 over the total tax due. I use to offer either 60 or 70% of the money. Any overage over $10,000 I charged only 30%.
I’m not sure what forms or agreements he is talking about but in KC if you are NOT the home owner, you must have an attorney appear in court even if you have a Power of Attorney. That wasn’t a big deal I found one that did it for $100 per case. However starting the second year I did this they required the lawyer and a written statement/ email from the person requesting the refund.
It’s pretty easy to do this however in KC was a lot of work for the money. The people I helped were very grateful to me. Also in Missouri you only have 2 years to recover the money before the state keeps it. The process ones you file you get on a court docket which can be from 2 to 4 months out and then if all goes well you get a check about 30 days later
FYI I figured this out on my own after a friends house was sold after it had been foreclosed by the bank and she got a card sent to her and she passed it along to me. There might be a lot of states that it’s more profitable and easier than KC.
Best of luck!
- Member since 2020 · 1 post · 3 votes6y
don is just making excuses ...hes never done it and cant even speak of it -- a birds eye view
put simply - you have to do it -- all the other jibber-jabber on here just reads as complaining and excuses - it is real estate to a degree. try it first
- Member since 2020 · 1 post · 4 votes6y
Yes, Bob Diamond is for real! I just joined his course! What he teaches is amazing! I am so excited to be involved! I'm about 1/4 of the way through. I can't wait to finish and be legit!
- Wholesaler · Costa Mesa · Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 1 vote6y
@Renee Gray, I agree. @Don Konipol, they do go hand in hand if you see the entire process.
- Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 10 votes6y
I picked Surplus Recovery Agents course I'm gonna give it a go. This is my first year in RE I've won a property at a Tax Sale! I got the course while waiting for my deed to be recorded.
I'm very close to my first interaction with Claimants. As far as the course goes it's one of the cheaper ones out there and I'm on a payment plan. It's about $600 @ $200 a month. I can't recommend it because I have had serious issues getting started. And they do have support but you probably won't ever get to talk to a live person. Which is one of the promises I was made. I've tried to get them to tell me how to get the larger percentages but it hasn't happened.
After researching what seemed like all of the states. I did find that Mark Norick's site is mostly up to date and has lots of free info that no matter what kind of overage your doing. It also could have saved me a ton of time.
So far I haven't found anything that was untrue just might need an update I remember one link didn't seem to work. Thanks Mark. Based on what I've seen I wouldn't hesitate to pick-up his materials the prices were good last I checked.
I like Mark Norick's site because it breaks down how to work with each state FOR FREE and whether or not it's worth your time.
I did however learn alot from the course. But it is outdated. And the support is as not as good as I liked.
I'm gonna share some resources from the course for yall.
Netronline - Good for looking up public all over the US. Great for Tax Sale Investors also.
https://publicrecords.netronli...
and
Merlin - Is a skip trace site.
https://merlinlocate.com/
The skills of learning how to search public records can help investors with due diligence. Something I picked up from Tax Sales.Skip tracing could help find people for wholesaling or pre-forclosures.
The opportunity is legit. But I can't speak as to how much effort is required quite yet.
I'm not there yet.
If you have any better resources on this subject let me know.
Hope you all are well.
- 6yWale LawalBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Great information here. I will look into this myself.
NETWORTH BUILDERS5236 Reviews - Real Estate Coach · Joplin, MO · Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 65 votes5y
You can make significant money with tax overages...but it's not as simple as the gurus like you to believe. I work with tax properties a lot, probably 50% of my portfolio work per year. I also make money with the overages. But I don't think it's worth the amount of effort required. The most I've made in a year from just overages was about $100,000. That's with a full time secretary working on them. In the same period of time, I could have had that secretary make me three times that amount on clouded titles. However, depending on the state the overage is in, you may be severally limited on what you can make from the overage. For instance in Arkansas and in a lot of states, if you make a claim as a third party on behalf of a "client" ie the owner of the surplus, the state may limit you to a finders fee of only 10%. They may also require you give them a notarized document from the owner that states the owner is aware of the surplus, how much you are charging, and that they can claim these funds without your help. Some state attorney generals may even pursue suits against you for "unfair business practices violations." Remember, you are demanding these funds from the county or state. If no one claims these funds, they get to keep them. They also are politically connected with unlimited deep pockets, they will try to stand in your way to claim these funds. Fighting the county or state is a very tough battle sometimes.
What I do like to do with these overage lists, is to research the property itself. I discover why it was sold at the tax sale, seek out the previous owner and get a quit claim deed from them (even if a new deed was awarded from the tax sale), then attack the collection deed and win the property back, usually for just a few hundred dollars. The overage lists is a great resource to find ugly deeds for pennies.
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