The following neighborhoods: West price hill, East Price hill, Covedale, North College Hill, College Hill, Westwood & Colerain.
What has been others experiences investing in these neighborhoods? Which area has the most upside in 5-10 years?
What are your thoughts on Mason, West Chester, Maineville
Anyone have experience in Oxford (Miami) ?
East price hill is on the up and up. Specifically the area they call" The incline district". Just drive through there and you'll see half a dozen houses being renovated. Lots of upside as the west side of Cincinnati doesn't really have an area to hangout for nightlife. Median sales price there has dropped recently but that's because investors have been buying the junkers up with cash.
school me on this, I drove around Price Hill area and I don't know why but the area seemed somewhat unsafe....not very desirable. So what parts of Price Hill are you talking about? Thanks.
What type of investing are you referring to? If you are talking about fix and flips, any neighborhood you listed has potential if you can buy houses cheap enough, there will be room for profit and finding a buyer at the right price. Areas of Price hill, Covedale, North College Hill and College Hill are very low income/high crime areas, that would be a risk for any type of investment. Most neighborhoods in the City of Cincinnati carry some risk for violent crime or low income housing nearby. There are many parts of Colerain that I would consider nice or middle to upper middle class. However, Colerain is the largest Township in Ohio, and also has several areas that are crime ridden and low income as well.
If you are talking about long term buy and hold I would be even more cautious about investing in low income neighborhoods, unless you have talented property management to handle that market of tenants, and other potential problems that come with them. I think the most important questions is how much hands on management can you afford in these areas, and what is your risk tolerance to C,D,F neighborhoods?
Thank you for your input @Joseph Cornwell . This would be a buy & hold strategy with a more hands on approach in managing.
Do you hold properties in any of those above areas?
I do not, I am speaking strictly from criminal statistics, and close friends who are police officers in some of those neighbors and some of the issues they deal with. I work for Deer Park, and the eastern side of Hamilton County is my target area for buy and hold. Also I would like to correct myself, Covedale is not known for high crime as I accidentally mentioned.
Anyway, if you feel comfortable doing hands on management in some of the lower income neighborhoods there is certainly a margin for high profit, with proper screening and tenant training. In my opinion there is an axis for buy/hold investing, typically in B,C neighborhoods you pay more than D,F obviously, right? However, with the lower upfront cost of buying lower income housing typically, you can receive a higher CoC return with proper marketing, screening, and management. If you have researched your target markets and risk tolerance and believe that is what you are interested in pursuing there is certainly money to be made! My personal strategy is to focus on B,C neighborhoods, to find the best possible rent to cost ratio within those areas, and then hopefully have less back-end cost, maintenance, vacancies, evictions, damage, vandalism, etc. The cost of this mitigated risk is a higher entry or upfront cost. Either way in any location or price point, you need to find the best deal possible to be profitable. I wish you the best of luck with any area you choose!
@Sterling White , what are your thoughts on Cincy suburbs like West Chester, Mason, Loveland, Blue Ash, Montgomery, Lebanon, Deer Park, etc. ?
It appears these areas stayed fairly stable during the Great Recession
@Sunny P. The second set of area you mentioned are the most popular for fix/flip strategies and yield smaller returns as a result
Sterling. I grew up in Cincinnati and still visit often. The Cincy area is a lot like Indy in that areas can change quickly. I would gather some info and make a plan to take a road trip. Check some places in over the rhine. It's a mix of mass ave area and the fountain square area. Also look across the river in Newport Kentucky.
In regards to you question about college hill:
There is some pretty decent investment going on there now and in the near future. Here is an article from the business courier that talks about a couple of the developments coming soon. http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/07/08/11m-mixed-use-project-coming-to-this-cincinnati.html
Perfect! Thank you @Taylor Klepper for your input.
Are you purchasing rentals in that area?
@Sterling White I am new to REI, so I haven't made any purchases to-date. I work as a civil engineer here in Cincinnati, so I fortunately I get the inside scoop on a lot of up and coming developments in the area, which will help once I start making purchases.
So long story short, no, not yet.
Mason, Blue Ash, West Chester etc are well-established markets that have a high percentage of owner occupied housing. Your returns will be no where near what you could get in OTR or lower income areas. Butler county (West Chester) is a very wealthy county. As an investor, I would not spend too much time looking in these markets personally, depends on your goals, but if goal is making money I wouldn't do it.
Lebanon is a different animal. My personal feeling is that "urban sprawl" in Cinicinnati has made Mason/West Chester/Liberty township quite the hot spots. In the 90's, Mason and West Chester was primarily farmland. Now those areas are bustling with activity, development, businesses, hospitals, you name it. So if this urban sprawl continues further north, next area to hit is Lebanon/Maineville region. These areas are not necessarily farmland right now like Mason was in 90's, BUT, they are a far cry from the booming West Chester/Mason region. Not sure how long this will take, but I think Lebanon/Maineville are up and coming areas, the question is when. It may be a while.
Also, there is a lot of talk about Madisonville being the next up and coming area in Cincinnati. Here is a link to this
There is talk of the city spending big dollars on developing this area. It is located between Oakley (which is tapped out as far prices -- a hot rental area for young professionals), and Madeira, which is generally a wealthy neighborhood. Madisonville is still shady, BUT, the crime rate has decreased signfiicantly and there is some data suggesting it is lower crime area than Oakley.
As a buy and hold investor, I've been watching Madisonville carefully but have yet to pull the trigger. Worth looking into though.
@Steve D. I agree. I am new to REI and have kept a close eye on Madisonville. I believe that we are very close to seeing a huge resurgence in that area, with the MedPace development being a huge driver of that--as well as spillover coming from Oakley and Hyde Park.
I've written a pretty in depth report on Madisonville if anyone would like to see it. Basically summarizes all the developments going on and how Madisonville is surrounded by strong neighborhoods.
As far as the other neighborhoods, our Mayor really is pushing the development in East Price Hill. Westchester, blue ash, mason and those others are always pretty strong. Not sure how many opportunities come up there though????
Another community I didn't see mentioned here is Northside. I've been hearing a pretty good bit about it being very popular with the artsy types, and there is a lot of renewal going on there. I noticed recently that land is very expensive now. Fix and Flip seems to be the big thing there. I'm just not ready to do anything in that area yet.
Madisonville is surrounded by strong neighborhoods, but it's an awkward location. Question is who would want to live there and what quality tenants can you attract? It's still a pretty rough area. No major employers there. doubt the young professionals will bypass Oakley to rent in madisonville. Currently there doesn't seem to be a good reason for someone to rent there who can afford to rent in Madeira or Oakley/Hyde park. i think a tenant who would live in madisonville right now simply cannot afford Oakley or surrounding neighborhoods.
it would need a fairly significant overhaul/gentrification for this to change, and I believe it will take a fair amount of time (many years) for it to happen.
OTR is different in that it is very close to downtown and many employment opportunities.
What about Walnut hill? Specifically, zip code 45206? What do you all think?
I have a property in west price hill and it was hard to find a tenant for the property. The age of the properties in the area can make for a very cheap buy but you do have to put the money into the rehab and all of that money rest on you finding that right tenant. The only thing is now I have had them complain about the crime in the area and I hope that does not make my turn over high. vacancy and maintenance have really eaten into my profits. I am now in the final R of the BRRRR and am just waiting to see if the appraisal comes in high enough to get so of the cash back out and hopefully some extra from all of the improvements. so bottom line. I'm waiting on my COC return but my cash flow has not been the greatest in this neighborhood.
I know opinions are like @#%@ and everyone has one. So here is mine:
Madisonville - people know it can be the next hot spot. That has already been factored into the prices so you are buying at top dollar. There was a great police officer who was killed here in 2015. Madisonville close to I-71 is being developed bigly, but how far in will it go and how fast?
Price Hill - I owned a strip mall there until last Summer. The walmart down the road was the MOST SHOPLIFTED WALLMART IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. I didn't believe it when a bank president told me that so I researched it and its true, even though they have police stationed inside the store. Our strip mall had break ins and hypodermics found near the dumpster quite often. There are pockets of areas where people are trying to revitalize but that has been going on for years. It may not ever pop! The incline district has some high end living but very small area and borders some pretty shady areas.
I own a 3 story office building in Maineville. That area has good traffic count and is in between some nice neighborhoods.
Neighborhoods in and around Cincinnati are quite difficult to gauge. School levies have reaked havoc on home prices in certain areas. The recession didn't hit us as hard as other metro areas and right now there is a ton of competition in the residential arena.
It has been awhile since I saw this thread. I just wanted to add there is quite a bit of interest in parts of Madisonville currently. My opinion is the expansion and revitalization of Mariemont and Fairfax has helped expand into the surrounding neighborhoods of Madisonville and Columbia Township. However, when the properties are located in Cincinnati Public Schools it can be a negative for buyers and renters. I do have clients looking to invest in these areas currently. It is definitely an example of a block by block neighborhood.
I invest heavily on the east-side of Cincy and have been watching Madisonville for a long time. Years ago many investors started buying up Madisonville because it was thought to be up and coming. Unfortunately the neighborhood hasn't quite performed like everyone had hoped.
The area continues to get attention from investors because it is a very convenient location and surrounded by very affluent neighborhoods (Mariemont, Maderia, Indian Hill, Oakley). However, the commercial development on Red Bank Road isn't enough to spur homebuyers and quality tenants in the heart of the Madisonville neighborhoods.
A true resurgence will require a huge overhaul to the dilapidated business district along Madison Road between Stewart and Plainville. This will take many years (and millions of dollars) to accomplish.
I do believe that Madisonville is up and coming, but very, very, very slowly. That said, there are stronger investment areas in Cincinnati - OTR, Northside, and Mt Auburn.
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