Don't Fall For This Trap As A BRRRR Investor

Don't Fall For This Trap As A BRRRR Investor

Stuart UdisPro Member
Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I am hoping this post will help those interested in the BRRRR investment strategy avoid this common trap. From what I consistently observe, the ability to complete the BRRRR investment strategy and recapitalize oneself is a key metric used in how many underwrite acquisitions. For illustration purposes, the majority of investors who post on BP will move the property that pencils as a true BRRRR to the front of the line over the better situated asset with better fundamentals merely because they receive 100% of their invested capital back as opposed to 90% (again numbers are merely to illustrate a point). I will be the first to share I understand the value in being able to recycle capital through refinances to grow a portfolio but this should not be done at the expense of other fundamentals that are more telling of the properties current and future economic performance. Unfortunately many investors become laser focused on the 100% recapitalization of their transactions and end up working harder than those who don't place all of their emphasis on the 100% capitalization and have real estate portfolios that perform better because they made investment decisions better aligned with the underlying real estate's fundamentals.

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Jake BakerBusiness Member
Flipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 695 votes
2y

@Stuart Udis great post your made here.

We do 20 Flips/BRRRRs per year in Jacksonville FL and we use a hybrid approach. We BRRRR 8-10 per year and the flips supplement the money left in the BRRRRs. How do we choose which ones to BRRRR? - Location. It is not about how much is left in the deal for me. It is about the long term appreciation of the asset.

I look at Cash Flow and Forced Appreciation as a hedge against market corrections. Cash flow (in my portfolio as a whole) covers my expenses. Forced Apperception (BRRRR or buying at a discount) allows me to build in equity from the beginning of the investment in case I need to fire sale the property for an unforeseeable reason.

Debt-Paydown and Tax-Benefits are just a result of owning real estate and can be more-or-less predicted over a time period. A good CPA will help you save a ton on taxes as your wealth grows.

Market Appreciation is where you will make the most money over a 10-year period but is the least predictable. However, real estate values (on a national average) have never gone down over a 10-year period. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS

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  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y

    I am a value add investor and rarely refinance but the deal would not meet my IRR or risk tolerance thresholds if I only added 10% value.

  • Stuart UdisPro Member
    OP
    Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Mike Dymski I understand what you are saying but its not a gain until it's realized. Until then, its merely appraised value....paper equity. Not to mention, inability to refinance out all of your initial capital is not merely LTV based. Debt coverage plays a factor. In fact right now, debt coverage is is going to present a greater obstacle than obtaining an appraisal that is 20-25% greater than your cost. Many on BP are relying on paper equity in C/D stagnant neighborhoods that will never be realized. In the meantime, they keep running through the BRRRR motions believing they are growing a real estate empire because the BRRRR method pencils best in these neighborhoods which lack the fundamentals that will equate to a true realization event.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y

    "not a gain until it's realized" - I am 100% confident in the permanent value added in my portfolio and can't speak to situations where investors are counting gains that will never be realized.

    "debt coverage is a greater obstacle...than appraisal at 75-80% LTV" - 100% agree...DSC is determining loan proceeds in this high rate environment, not LTV.

  • Investor · Bucks County · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 156 votes
    2y

    @Mike Dymski How can you be 100% confident of the value of anything? True value is as much as someone is willing to pay, correct? Not sure how you can know for certain someone will always be willing to pay the exact amount as your own valuation or any appraisal for that matter. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sebastian Bennett:

    @Mike Dymski How can you be 100% confident of the value of anything? True value is as much as someone is willing to pay, correct? Not sure how you can know for certain someone will always be willing to pay the exact amount as your own valuation or any appraisal for that matter. 

    Buy in growing areas, add value, and you will never be concerned with valuation (or occupancy). Normal market value fluctuations are irrelevant when enough value is added at inception (and values go up over time in growing areas). All the properties I currently own (or have ever owed) are worth at least 2x the purchase price. Exact is the opposite of the goal...buy in growing areas and add enough value (force appreciation) where precision of execution, management, or valuation is not needed/relevant.

  • Jake BakerBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 695 votes
    2y

    @Stuart Udis great post your made here.

    We do 20 Flips/BRRRRs per year in Jacksonville FL and we use a hybrid approach. We BRRRR 8-10 per year and the flips supplement the money left in the BRRRRs. How do we choose which ones to BRRRR? - Location. It is not about how much is left in the deal for me. It is about the long term appreciation of the asset.

    I look at Cash Flow and Forced Appreciation as a hedge against market corrections. Cash flow (in my portfolio as a whole) covers my expenses. Forced Apperception (BRRRR or buying at a discount) allows me to build in equity from the beginning of the investment in case I need to fire sale the property for an unforeseeable reason.

    Debt-Paydown and Tax-Benefits are just a result of owning real estate and can be more-or-less predicted over a time period. A good CPA will help you save a ton on taxes as your wealth grows.

    Market Appreciation is where you will make the most money over a 10-year period but is the least predictable. However, real estate values (on a national average) have never gone down over a 10-year period. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS

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  • Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Stuart Udis, while I agree with you on this, a well underwritten deal should be accounting for those fundamentals.  I.e. a property in a lower income area will see heavier and more frequent turnovers.  Lower income areas tend to see lower rents, slower rent growth (Outside of initial renovation).

    And, if you are taking out commercial loans, there will be a DSCR test along with the appraisal and LTV. Most loans in today's market are limited by DSCR, so a well underwritten property will be accounting for these fundamentals when calculating NOI, which will feed DSCR and therefore already be taken into account on whether or not full proceeds will be available.

    But I get that many people starting out don't think of this, so you are right.  But I look at it the other way: be sure that your 100% recap is actually available and provides adequate cash flow to maintain the property going forward.

  • Michael SloanBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Richardson, TX · Member since 2023 · 31 posts · 15 votes
    2y

    @Stuart Udis

    I agree. I think if you can complete a BRRR deal and end up with less than 20% in the deal then you have a win.

    Sure getting 100% of your money out right away looks great on paper and that would be a home run. Those deals are hard to find in my market.

    You can make a lot of money by consistently making base hit type deals.

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  • Stuart UdisPro Member
    OP
    Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Michael Sloan:

    @Stuart Udis

    I agree. I think if you can complete a BRRR deal and end up with less than 20% in the deal then you have a win.

    Sure getting 100% of your money out right away looks great on paper and that would be a home run. Those deals are hard to find in my market.

    You can make a lot of money by consistently making base hit type deals.


  • Member since 2021 · 40 posts · 35 votes
    2y

    While appraised equity isn't cash, the fundamentals of real estate investment trump any particular method for acquiring properties. Especially during the bear markets, basics are the most important KPI.

    Reduce the amount of personal cash in the deal.

    Ensure that the property can provide enough cashflow consistently to sustain itself 

    Wait for the best time to sell

    Never, ever, nevereverever, put yourself in a position that forces you to sell at the worst possible time. This means building contingencies for vacancy, repairs, insurance increases. Still making sure the property can cover itself plus some. 


    Just me personally, If I missed by 20% and had to leave 20% of my equity in the deal, I would rather just buy a turn-key. The whole point of BRRR is to reduce the amount of equity in each property so you can do more. Your DSCR should still be 1.25 or higher.

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