How to BRRRR in Ohio in 2024

Cleveland, Ohio
BRRRR - Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat
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How to BRRRR in Ohio in 2024

David Colthart
Investor 路 Denver, CO 路 Member since 2021 路 13 posts 路 14 votes

Today's Question: Big picture, what actions can I take to increase my chances of success on my first Cleveland or Columbus BRRRR? Take that wherever you want to :)

Why: I am fortunate that my job has given me far more than most of my closest friends and family, and I want to provide others with opportunities and support where it's most needed. Unfortunately my work is not scalable and does not allow me to extend such opportunities. Developing the tools to scale a substantial real estate portfolio would enable me to help people in a way I currently can not.

Me: I'm an investor located in Denver, CO preparing to execute the BRRRR strategy in Cleveland or Columbus, OH (aiming to use about $30-40k of capital). I already have a rockstar agent, but always looking to learn from additional voices. I have read David Greene's BRRRR book and countless biggerpockets posts on the topic, but recognize there are market specifics I don't yet know. Your recommendations, referrals, and words of caution will be invaluable. I have too many questions for one post, so keeping this post broad and will ask more specific questions in the coming weeks/months.

I have a good 6-figure job and some limited real estate investing experience (own one short term rental in the Denver area and recently Airbnb'ed a second property under the rental arbitrage model). 

Goal: Develop the tools to build generational wealth through real estate by executing one successful BRRRR by year's end ("success" would be getting most if not all of my capital back through refi of a property that genuinely cash-flows). Then evaluate what went right/wrong and execute at least four more BRRRRs in 2025.

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Evan HoppleBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH 路 Member since 2023 路 284 posts 路 420 votes
2y

@David Colthart

You're looking at a SFH in Columbus or a duplex in Cleveland, both in C class neighborhoods. Columbus numbers are going to be tighter but you'll be see more appreciation than in Cleveland.

Avoid any of the "Heights" in Cleveland, those areas have POS which is a pain and capital intensive on a deal that needs extensive repairs. General rule of thumb is look for properties with Cleveland in the address, anything outside of that will have POS.

Start looking for contractors sooner than later - they'll make or break the whole deal. 

Having a solid PM in place will take some of the burden of being out of state away. 

I do business in both markets, happy to help 

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Pittsburgh 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    2y

    @David Colthart

    unless you're going to go there in person to oversee it, then... don't. i know those purchase prices seem attractive compared to Denver, but it is exceptionally difficult to execute a successful BRRRR from thousands of miles away. part of BRRRR is sweat equity and watching things closely, and that's exactly what you can't do remotely / from Internet.

    you tell me - how will you not do this?

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/963/topics/1195280-expe...

    and why not stay local and BRRRR in Colorado where you can be hands-on? too expensive? save up more =)

    1Reply
  • Eric Gerakos
    Investor 路 Costa Mesa, CA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    2y

    The best action you can take is to not buy in Cleveland or Columbus.

    3Reply
  • Evan HoppleBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH 路 Member since 2023 路 284 posts 路 420 votes
    2y

    @David Colthart

    You're looking at a SFH in Columbus or a duplex in Cleveland, both in C class neighborhoods. Columbus numbers are going to be tighter but you'll be see more appreciation than in Cleveland.

    Avoid any of the "Heights" in Cleveland, those areas have POS which is a pain and capital intensive on a deal that needs extensive repairs. General rule of thumb is look for properties with Cleveland in the address, anything outside of that will have POS.

    Start looking for contractors sooner than later - they'll make or break the whole deal. 

    Having a solid PM in place will take some of the burden of being out of state away. 

    I do business in both markets, happy to help 

    [email protected]614-924-8151
    Reafco Real Estate
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    6Reply
  • Patrick DruryBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus, OH & Cleveland OH 路 Member since 2021 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    2y

    @David Colthart  
    If you are looking in the Columbus market I would recommend areas like Hilltop, Linden, Eastmoor/ Whitehall, and Franklinton. These are areas where you can cash flow in Columbus because the rent-to-price ratio is favorable. Out of these areas, Franklinton and Linden are seeing some of the most developments. With things like the ONE Linden plan in Linden, which is a 50M plan to improve the neighborhood. Of that 50M, 25M was allocated for the construction of a new recreational faculty that has since been completed. Franklinton has been seeing lots of developments like the completion of Gravity Phase 1 and phases 2 and 3 on the way. As well as coffee shops like Bottoms Up Coffee are moving in and small microbreweries like brew dog and Land Grant

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Pittsburgh 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Patrick Drury

    I'm genuinely curious, how do you cash flow on a strong BRRRR?

    1Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus, OH 路 Member since 2017 路 6k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @David Colthart:

    Today's Question: Big picture, what actions can I take to increase my chances of success on my first Cleveland or Columbus BRRRR? Take that wherever you want to :)

    Why: I am fortunate that my job has given me far more than most of my closest friends and family, and I want to provide others with opportunities and support where it's most needed. Unfortunately my work is not scalable and does not allow me to extend such opportunities. Developing the tools to scale a substantial real estate portfolio would enable me to help people in a way I currently can not.

    Me: I'm an investor located in Denver, CO preparing to execute the BRRRR strategy in Cleveland or Columbus, OH (aiming to use about $30-40k of capital). I already have a rockstar agent, but always looking to learn from additional voices. I have read David Greene's BRRRR book and countless biggerpockets posts on the topic, but recognize there are market specifics I don't yet know. Your recommendations, referrals, and words of caution will be invaluable. I have too many questions for one post, so keeping this post broad and will ask more specific questions in the coming weeks/months.

    I have a good 6-figure job and some limited real estate investing experience (own one short term rental in the Denver area and recently Airbnb'ed a second property under the rental arbitrage model). 

    Goal: Develop the tools to build generational wealth through real estate by executing one successful BRRRR by year's end ("success" would be getting most if not all of my capital back through refi of a property that genuinely cash-flows). Then evaluate what went right/wrong and execute at least four more BRRRRs in 2025.

    I believe the most effective approach to achieve a successful BRRRR strategy is to engage a skilled contractor with competitive pricing. In my view, it's challenging to find a great contractor without providing them with consistent business, which is difficult to do without having properties that require renovations. That's why I advise against starting with a BRRRR and instead purchasing a more move-in ready property. Begin by giving contractors smaller projects and gradually progress to a full BRRRR.

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  • Samuel DioufBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus & Cleveland, OH 路 Member since 2023 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    2y

    When doing BRRRRs OOS, having the right team in place is vital. I would make sure that you're flying out to your market so you can meet people in person. Meet multiple GCs in person and once you've found the right one, make sure you build a solid relationship and trust with the GC you'll be working with. 

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  • Account Closed
    Miami, FL 路 Member since 2024 路 24 posts 路 24 votes
    2y

    @David Colthart Before you invest or buy in The City of Cleveland I would suggest you google "Tenants First Initiative" and become aware of all the extra fees and problems the City of Cleveland gives "Out Of State Investors". I am managing 40 doors there right now an it an absolute nightmare. You should also speak to a knowledgeable RE attorney to better explain what it takes to own and manage rental units in The City Of Cleveland. 

    We are exiting the market there is no winners inside Cleveland go elsewhere. 

    3Reply
  • Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus, OH 路 Member since 2019 路 3k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @David Colthart:

    Today's Question: Big picture, what actions can I take to increase my chances of success on my first Cleveland or Columbus BRRRR? Take that wherever you want to :)

    Why: I am fortunate that my job has given me far more than most of my closest friends and family, and I want to provide others with opportunities and support where it's most needed. Unfortunately my work is not scalable and does not allow me to extend such opportunities. Developing the tools to scale a substantial real estate portfolio would enable me to help people in a way I currently can not.

    Me: I'm an investor located in Denver, CO preparing to execute the BRRRR strategy in Cleveland or Columbus, OH (aiming to use about $30-40k of capital). I already have a rockstar agent, but always looking to learn from additional voices. I have read David Greene's BRRRR book and countless biggerpockets posts on the topic, but recognize there are market specifics I don't yet know. Your recommendations, referrals, and words of caution will be invaluable. I have too many questions for one post, so keeping this post broad and will ask more specific questions in the coming weeks/months.

    I have a good 6-figure job and some limited real estate investing experience (own one short term rental in the Denver area and recently Airbnb'ed a second property under the rental arbitrage model). 

    Goal: Develop the tools to build generational wealth through real estate by executing one successful BRRRR by year's end ("success" would be getting most if not all of my capital back through refi of a property that genuinely cash-flows). Then evaluate what went right/wrong and execute at least four more BRRRRs in 2025.


    Hi David, you should start building your team - a reliable GC, a lender who understands the BRRRR strategy, and a PM who knows your target market. Your realtor should be able to easily plug you in with their network. Don't just run rehab numbers. Check vacancy rates, repair costs, ARVs, etc. Some deals may look good on paper but can quickly turn into a nightmare if you don't account for unexpected things. And lastly, don't be afraid to skip a deal if the numbers don't work. Happy to connect and answer any other questions you may have.

    [email protected]614-300-7535
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  • Ko KashiwagiPro Member
    Lender 路 Los Angeles, CA 路 Member since 2022 路 967 posts 路 445 votes
    2y

    Building a good team is key!

    310-848-9776
    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor 路 Brooke Park Drive 路 Member since 2018 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    2y

    I agree it鈥檚 important to build generational wealth by doing out of state brrrr in Ohio. Keep in mine Toledo is the #1 market in Ohio (and nationwide) not Cleveland or Columbus. 

    https://www.realtor.com/research/top-housing-markets-2024/

    1Reply
  • David Colthart
    OP
    Investor 路 Denver, CO 路 Member since 2021 路 13 posts 路 14 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @David Colthart

    unless you're going to go there in person to oversee it, then... don't. i know those purchase prices seem attractive compared to Denver, but it is exceptionally difficult to execute a successful BRRRR from thousands of miles away. part of BRRRR is sweat equity and watching things closely, and that's exactly what you can't do remotely / from Internet.

    you tell me - how will you not do this?

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/963/topics/1195280-expe...

    and why not stay local and BRRRR in Colorado where you can be hands-on? too expensive? save up more =)

    Thanks for taking the time to reply Nicholas! To be honest, @Luka Jozic (from the thread you linked) doesn't seem to be in terrible shape in my opinion, despite the discouraging comments he received.  Assuming he actually got the majority of his capital back in each of his 10 or so BRRRRs (which seems to be the case) he's likely accumulated a good amount of equity and is benefiting from debt paydown and tax advantages (with potential appreciation and improved future cash flow once the properties are stabilized being nice-to-haves if they happen). As someone without a ton of capital who's eager to "take action" (buzzwords, I know) and put in the necessary work and due diligence, BRRRRing OOS in a cash-flow market seems like a reasonable option (even if it isn't for everyone).  Seems to me that at scale, a portfolio like Luka's would indeed build wealth over time and open up options to transition into higher quality appreciation markets several years down the line, with the benefit of more capital and (more importantly) more experience.  I know this isn't the path everyone would choose, but it seems like AN option to me.  Would love to know if you think I'm missing something here, or what other options you think someone in this position could explore to start getting their feet wet and moving forward in the near term.
    1Reply
  • David Colthart
    OP
    Investor 路 Denver, CO 路 Member since 2021 路 13 posts 路 14 votes
    2y

    @Patrick Drury - greatly appreciate the tips regarding Columbus! From what you've seen, do you believe 30-40k is enough cash to take on a BRRRR in these parts of Columbus, or do I need to beef up my capital significantly? (using hard money for acquisition and rehab)

    0Reply
  • David Colthart
    OP
    Investor 路 Denver, CO 路 Member since 2021 路 13 posts 路 14 votes
    2y

    @Remington Lyman - seems like sound advice for sure. Assuming some hypothetical foolhardy person chose not to heed your advice and jumped straight into BRRRR, do you think they could significantly improve their odds of success by putting an uncommon amount of effort into finding and building a mutually beneficial relationship with an investor-friendly GC? For example I'm thinking of David Greene's suggestion that you agree up front to provide a monetary incentive for the GC to get the work done correctly and on time, along with a penalty for blowing past the deadline. Have you ever seen this in the real world and do you think it could be effective?

    1Reply
  • David Colthart
    OP
    Investor 路 Denver, CO 路 Member since 2021 路 13 posts 路 14 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    @David Colthart Before you invest or buy in The City of Cleveland I would suggest you google "Tenants First Initiative" and become aware of all the extra fees and problems the City of Cleveland gives "Out Of State Investors". I am managing 40 doors there right now an it an absolute nightmare. You should also speak to a knowledgeable RE attorney to better explain what it takes to own and manage rental units in The City Of Cleveland. 

    We are exiting the market there is no winners inside Cleveland go elsewhere. 

    GREATLY appreciate you putting this initiative on my radar Devin. Looks somewhat onerous from the outside, but sounds like you're saying it's worse than that.  If I may ask, which aspects are the most painful, to the point that you're exiting the market? And are these issues Cleveland-specific or present in other parts of Ohio?
    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Miami, FL 路 Member since 2024 路 24 posts 路 24 votes
    2y
    Quote from @David Colthart:
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    @David Colthart Before you invest or buy in The City of Cleveland I would suggest you google "Tenants First Initiative" and become aware of all the extra fees and problems the City of Cleveland gives "Out Of State Investors". I am managing 40 doors there right now an it an absolute nightmare. You should also speak to a knowledgeable RE attorney to better explain what it takes to own and manage rental units in The City Of Cleveland. 

    We are exiting the market there is no winners inside Cleveland go elsewhere. 

    GREATLY appreciate you putting this initiative on my radar Devin. Looks somewhat onerous from the outside, but sounds like you're saying it's worse than that.  If I may ask, which aspects are the most painful, to the point that you're exiting the market? And are these issues Cleveland-specific or present in other parts of Ohio?

     @David Colthart

    The extra fees associated with a rental property in Cleveland

    1. Rental Registration billed per unit $70 have to renew every  year 

    2. Lead Certification billed per unit $200-$400  (depending on company you use) every 2 years

    3.HVAC Certification Billed per dwelling unit $100-$200

    4. To be fully city compliant  you must have an "authorized property" manager that lives in The City of Cleveland if you are out of state. This property manager can be held liable for anything that is related to your property from the City. ( Making this position extremely hard to fill). We pay our "authorized property manger  $300 a month and it took 2 months to find someone to even absorb that type of responsibility

    5. You must register your entity with the State of Ohio or you will be in violation of the law and will end up in The Cleveland housing court and your headache will really start. 

    6. To have an eviction performed you must have rental registration, and eviction often take 2/3 months. The housing court is also a nightmare and very pro tennant. 

    7. Some RE attorneys I have worked with have simply stopped practicing law inside the The City of Cleveland because the Housing Court is a Kangaroo Court. 

    In summary the person selling you a property in Cleveland is probably waiting for some sucker to come along and buy their property. Ideally an out of  State investor, who will buy they property "sight unseen" and  who think they are getting great deal. In Cleveland if you are Out Of State Investor there is no winning. 

    3Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus, OH 路 Member since 2017 路 6k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @David Colthart:

    @Remington Lyman - seems like sound advice for sure. Assuming some hypothetical foolhardy person chose not to heed your advice and jumped straight into BRRRR, do you think they could significantly improve their odds of success by putting an uncommon amount of effort into finding and building a mutually beneficial relationship with an investor-friendly GC? For example I'm thinking of David Greene's suggestion that you agree up front to provide a monetary incentive for the GC to get the work done correctly and on time, along with a penalty for blowing past the deadline. Have you ever seen this in the real world and do you think it could be effective?


     I have not seen someone do this before but not saying it does not work

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  • Myles Johnson
    Rental Property Investor 路 Denver, CO 路 Member since 2018 路 14 posts 路 19 votes
    2y

    @David Colthart Great decision David! I'm near Denver too and I've successfully BRRRed in Ohio. You will need to find an opportunity and check with multiple sources about ARV, then get multiple bids from folks recommended by someone that you are doing business with and trust. I like that you are looking to learn from the first one. Maybe you hit it out of the park, maybe not. But, you learn and get better.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Realtor 路 Cleveland, OH 路 Member since 2023 路 340 posts 路 215 votes
    2y

    Hi, all of these are great point of views but, I know that Ohio is a good place to invest in real estate considering my client's/people from all over the world are investing in Ohio. YES, you have to build a real estate portfolio of professionals of your choice to make this all happen. I always recommend for my clients to investigate and interview different professionals for all their real estate needs. Please reach out with any questions and best wishes!

    0Reply
  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Pittsburgh 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    2y

    @David Colthart

    a few more reactions:

    -most of the good contractors have more work than they know what to do with right now.  you might have to call 10 or 20 just to get 2-3 bids.  @Remington Lyman is this what you're seeing?

    -no reputable contractor is going to be willing to put a penalty in a contract with a brand new investor working on their first project.  there's just no need for them to... so they won't do it.

    -the environment for BRRRR has changed since 5-10 years ago. also - run the math on a solid BRRRR around the median price point in Columbus and you'll see that 30-40K is not enough. a low appraisal could easily wipe that out.

    1Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus, OH 路 Member since 2017 路 6k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @David Colthart

    a few more reactions:

    -most of the good contractors have more work than they know what to do with right now.  you might have to call 10 or 20 just to get 2-3 bids.  @Remington Lyman is this what you're seeing?

    -no reputable contractor is going to be willing to put a penalty in a contract with a brand new investor working on their first project.  there's just no need for them to... so they won't do it.

    -the environment for BRRRR has changed since 5-10 years ago. also - run the math on a solid BRRRR around the median price point in Columbus and you'll see that 30-40K is not enough. a low appraisal could easily wipe that out.


    Yup. This is what I am seeing. Which is why I recommend doing what I talked about. It is unrealistic to do what they teach in these books with BRRRRs unless you are putting in sweat equity or leaving money in the deal imo

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  • Connor Hibbs
    Lender 路 Ellington, CT 路 Member since 2024 路 210 posts 路 103 votes
    2y

    I am not local to Cleveland or Columbus, but a few things that should be considered for all BRRRR's are as follows:

    1. Does the project fit your budget? You want to make sure that on the rehab side that you aren't stretching your reserves too thin. There's no guarantee that your budget will stay the same in the end as it did in the beginning or that the quoted price will be the final cost of the work. Building in a contingency to your budget can help mitigate getting in over your head.

    2. What is the renter situation in the area? How much competition will your property have to find tenants and how will your proposed property compare. If the area doesn't support the rents that you're expecting or need to get, then it may not be the project for you. On the flip side, if there is a small supply of housing and high demand then you've found a great spot.

    3. Vet your tenants thoroughly before giving them the lease. Lean on your real estate agent to help you if you're out of town but set some guidelines for what qualifies your tenant outside of pets/no pets. These will be the people not just living in your property but maintaining it to a degree. Rent numbers are important, but finding a tenant who will care for your property, identify serious issues such as flooding or molding, and maintaining the quality of the work you put in while you aren't there is also important.

    1Reply
  • Phil Chehet
    Investor 路 South Jersey 路 Member since 2023 路 8 posts 路 5 votes
    2y

    @David Colthart have you looked at Toledo?

    0Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor 路 Poway, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 7k+ posts 路 8k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @David Colthart:
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @David Colthart

    unless you're going to go there in person to oversee it, then... don't. i know those purchase prices seem attractive compared to Denver, but it is exceptionally difficult to execute a successful BRRRR from thousands of miles away. part of BRRRR is sweat equity and watching things closely, and that's exactly what you can't do remotely / from Internet.

    you tell me - how will you not do this?

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/963/topics/1195280-expe...

    and why not stay local and BRRRR in Colorado where you can be hands-on? too expensive? save up more =)

    Thanks for taking the time to reply Nicholas! To be honest, @Luka Jozic (from the thread you linked) doesn't seem to be in terrible shape in my opinion, despite the discouraging comments he received. Assuming he actually got the majority of his capital back in each of his 10 or so BRRRRs (which seems to be the case) he's likely accumulated a good amount of equity and is benefiting from debt paydown and tax advantages (with potential appreciation and improved future cash flow once the properties are stabilized being nice-to-haves if they happen). As someone without a ton of capital who's eager to "take action" (buzzwords, I know) and put in the necessary work and due diligence, BRRRRing OOS in a cash-flow market seems like a reasonable option (even if it isn't for everyone). Seems to me that at scale, a portfolio like Luka's would indeed build wealth over time and open up options to transition into higher quality appreciation markets several years down the line, with the benefit of more capital and (more importantly) more experience. I know this isn't the path everyone would choose, but it seems like AN option to me. Would love to know if you think I'm missing something here, or what other options you think someone in this position could explore to start getting their feet wet and moving forward in the near term.


    >he's likely accumulated a good amount of equity and is benefiting from debt paydown and tax advantages (with potential appreciation and improved future cash flow once the properties are stabilized being nice-to-haves if they happen).

    equity pay down starts at 0.15% per month, ~2% annual. The rent growth in that market is challenged to keep up with inflation.


    >Seems to me that at scale, a portfolio like Luka's would indeed build wealth over time

    It is cash flow negative in a market that has an appreciation rate (2.17%) for this century below the inflation rate.

    https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/oh/cleveland/real-estate


    here are some thoughts about your plan: 

    - why perform a value add in a market where the value add does not add much value especially if the property will be acquired at no cost?   I completed a value add in march where I added a half bathroom.  In that market, a half bathroom adds ~$50k of value.  Does it even add $5k in Cleveland?

    - BRRRR are work and have risks. They are hard enough to do successfully local. I would not have wanted my first BRRRR to have been out of state. Even having successfully completed quite a few BRRRRs, I would be leery trying an OOS BRRRR.

    - residential RE is not passive.   A real small per unit return simply is not worth the effort of residential RE. 

    - real wealth is tough from cash flow alone and in markets that have historical appreciation below inflation for this century the return is largely from the cash flow.  My lowest appreciation property has appreciated $2700/month.  My best have appreciated over $10k/month.  
    - all markets are challenging to cash flow after extracting all possible value after a brrrr.  My last purchase that I had hoped to brrrr I never did the refinance and have not yet done the repeat.

    I really think your best odds of success is near your local market.  

    Good luck

    1Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor 路 Toledo, OH 路 Member since 2013 路 4k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    I agree it鈥檚 important to build generational wealth by doing out of state brrrr in Ohio. Keep in mine Toledo is the #1 market in Ohio (and nationwide) not Cleveland or Columbus. 

    https://www.realtor.com/research/top-housing-markets-2024/


    What is BRRR?

    Agreed mate.

    Columbus and Cleveland by far the worst markets to invest in 馃

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