BRRR Method with High Mortgage Rates

BRRR Method with High Mortgage Rates

Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 7 votes

I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 

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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
6mo
Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 

First the multiple posts that advocate purchasing the cash flow via lower LTV clearly have not performed the underwriting comparing the two options in Seattle. Leverage is RE superpower.

I agree with your assessment that most rehabs do better as a flip than a brrrr, especially in the short term.   But flipping is a job, and the long term numbers may depict something very different.

I will use your numbers but believe they would be challenging.   I am usually content if the value add is more than double the rehab costs.   Your numbers reflect a 5x value add compared to the cost of the value add.   I may have achieved 4x (barely), but never 5x but I digress. 

$550k ARV - $350k purchase & rehab = $200k of added value.

Refi at 80% LTV is $440k. The implication is you start with $90k in your pocket; the $90k near instant return makes this a no-brainer. If you flip with selling costs, additional hold time, and paying income tax you will be lucky to net $120k. $30k difference is substantial, but let's look at this as a hold.

50% rule (which is conservative in high rent market like Seattle) shows this to be very negative : $2500 * 0.5 - $3300 =$-2,050/month.  Negative $24.6k/year

Note alternate rent models (str, MTR, rent by room) could reduce this negative cash flow.  I would not expect any of them to add enough revenue to make this positive cash flow.  

Equity paydown near $7k.  Negative $17.6k year.   The $90k in your pocket or $200k total value add can consume many years of this before being depleted.

But what appreciation do you need to make this even?   $17.6k/$550k=3.2%   

What is Seattle's appreciation?  5% average for this century

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seattle/real-estate

If you get the 5% appreciation, is $27.5k.   Total profit would be $9.9k. Note the appreciation and rent compounds so that profit increases annually.

Now look at the return. $0 invested (not quite accurate as you had something invested until the refi but maybe 25% of the $350k for a short duration, but we will forget a short outlay because it quickly becomes trivial). ROI is infinite.

Because the property ends up acquired for no money, the cost of entry is irrelevant.  You own this high value property having not only extracted al, your investment, but in addition you pocketed $90k from the value add shortly after acquisition.

How long would it take to make $90k in the cheap market that many of these post advocate? Is it even possible to add $250k of value to a SFH in these cheap markets.

1.5 years ago I added a half bathroom out of existing space on a property with over $2k psf ARV. That half bathroom added $50k of value per the comps (if anyone wants to verify, mission beach 5 homes from the ocean). How much do you think a half bathroom in existing space can add in Cleveland?

Note brrrr have challenges, but if I could achieve the numbers you specified, I would do it and I expect crazy returns from my RE efforts.   I typically do not consider purchasing RE unless the return is far over 20%   This qualifies, easily.

Also I am not adverse to negative cash flow.   I purchased the largest negative cash flow non commercial property I have ever heard of.  $2.3m purchase fully occupied at a total $6k rent.   The property was up $1m above my purchase and rehab in 3 years.   I expect revenue will exceed $20k/month this year and has significant positive cash flow.

Lots to consider.    As I already mentioned, I think your 5x return on the value add will be a challenge and because I used your numbers, this is one reason this is a no-brainer to pursue.  Lower value add multipliers will reduce the numbers, especially the $90k into your pocket at the refi.   

Good luck

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  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6mo

    @Nicholas Martinez

    Some markets are not conducive to the BRRRR strategy. You could explore a couple options.

    1. Mid-Term Rentals - The rental rate is in general 1.5-2.0 times the standard rental rate.  Do a search on furnished finder and Airbnb (30 day stays) and see what similar properties rent for.

    2.  Flip the property and walk away with a nice payday.  Take the profit and buy a rental locally or go out of state where your money will go much further.

    3. Could go the STR route. This takes more effort and if you hire out the PM, not sure it will be profitable, but you should explore the possibilities. You can use AIRDNA and search your area for daily rates and other info. Use Airbnb and VRBO and see what other properties are charging.

  • Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6mo

    @Nicholas Martinez, a few thoughts:

    1. Your line of reasoning is on point. Not every property is suitable as a BRRRR deal.

    2. Are there many single family properties bought by investors as cash-flowing rentals in the area you are looking? 

    3. Look at what kind of properties are nice cash-flowing rentals in good condition in your area and then look for distressed properties that when rehabbed will be like that. That might be small multi-family. It might be a conversion from another outdated use like a commercial building in a residential area into a multi-family. 

    4. Find properties VERY severely distressed! When you described a $300k property only needing a $50k rehab that sounds not overly distressed because you are in an expensive market. In order for BRRRR number to align, you USUALLY need properties so distressed that many other kinds of buyers won't touch them. They are too distressed for a retail buyer to buy. They don't come close to qualifying for conventional financing.

    5. Look off-market! Learn to prospect for deals yourself or find wholesalers who are doing that leg work for you. Learn the tax sale process in your state as well as the foreclosure process. 

    6. Contact hard money lenders. Many want their borrowers to have experience and I'm not sure if your construction experience is going to get you over this hurdle. 

    7. If you can't get a hard money loan now, find someone to partner with on some deals perhaps flips where you can leverage your construction experience to get experience. The other partner who has more experience will leverage that experience to qualify for hard money loans. When you have done a few deals along side you will then also have the experience needed to qualify on your own. 

    8. You also may need to look at other markets where cash-flowing rentals are more abundant.

  • Stacy RaskinBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 494 votes
    6mo

    For the rehab, there are hard money loan options with up to 90% of the purchase price and 100% of the rehab done on draws. There are lending options that lend in multiple states including Washington. The actual specifics will depend on the property location and borrower profile. 

    Besides selling the property after rehab, options on renting which clients have done before are rent by the room, mid term rentals and short term rentals. These options generally require more work compared to a long term rental but can help with cash flow depending on your actual market and costs.

    There are some investors who decide to invest in nearby local markets or out of state that have lower cost purchase prices. 

    It ultimately depends on your goals and preferences regarding which of these would be the best for you. Happy to connect to discuss further. 

  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6mo

    @Nicholas Martinez

    i think your analysis is spot on. either a BRRRR works after refi, or it doesn't. i'll happily break even on a BRRRR or even go slightly negative on rent if i can get all my capital back, but not substantially negative.

    you can expand your radius to 1-2 hours if your immediate area doesn't work to see if the numbers improve but i wouldn't go any further.

    hope this helps - happy to dialogue further - have done several BRRRRs

  • Frank PyleBusiness Member
    Specialist · USA · Member since 2024 · 279 posts · 130 votes
    6mo

    You are not missing it. At today's higher debt costs a lot of BRRR deals that look great on equity still fail on the refi because the rent will not support the takeout loan, and your Seattle example is basically showing that. On your numbers the issue is debt service, not rehab skill. A simple checkpoint is rent divided by your new PITIA payment, and if that ratio is under about 1.0 to 1.2 depending on lender, the DSCR refi usually gets tight fast. In a case like this the real options are buy deeper, raise rent through a different unit mix or strategy if zoning and layout support it, leave more cash in the deal, use a lower leverage conventional refi if income qualifies, or treat it as a flip instead of forcing a rental. The practical move today is underwrite the takeout before you buy, not after rehab, because plenty of deals have enough ARV and still do not have enough rent.

    What would the realistic all in cost, finished rent, taxes, insurance, and target refi balance be on the kind of deal you are actually chasing

    If you want, send the deal numbers and I can run a quick IEC style model on the refinance side so you can see whether it is a BRRR, a low leverage hold, or really just a flip.

    Frank Pyle at ExP Realty
    NEXA Lending- Investors Edge Concierge
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  • Mike PaolucciBusiness Member
    Realtor · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 490 posts · 549 votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 

    BRRRR market has been pretty tough lately. Margins are extremely tight in all markets. 

    I'd look at other rental options (STR/MTR or a combination of the two) to help get a premium on monthly income.

    Hate to say it, but you may need to also leave some money in the deal to make deals work these days when going the LTR route. Would always prefer to pull all of my money out but that's not always able to happen these days. Just the reality of today's market.

    Out of state is also another option but I wouldn't recommend doing a BRRRR right out the gates till you've established your team and understand the local markets.

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6mo

    BRRR was awesome 2012-2018 and again briefly in 2020-2021 now its more for the rare one off deal or for people who do not do numbers correctly and real life are not really cashflowing after turnover costs, etc. You can also do 50% BRRRs where leave some money in the deal these are what many of my clients been doing recently, also just get a heloc but keep lower mortgage so have access to the capital if need it, etc.

  • Alfath AhmedBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 


     You are going to be much better off looking in the Midwest because your money will go so much further. The states are also landlord friendly.

    In your position, I would look to connect with a good investor agent that can connect you with good contractors, hard-money lenders/DSCR lenders, and property managers that can lease and manage for you.

    Your agent should be getting you off-market deals. Buy them at 75% ARV rule. They can also help guide you in building a Scope of Work to get a clear/better indicator of your rehab costs.

    I have a map I built that I can share with you that highlights the best areas to invest. PM me and I'll share it with you.

  • Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2026 · 24 posts · 18 votes
    6mo

    @Nicholas Martinez the math just doesn't work on that deal as a BRRRR in Seattle. $2,500 rent against a $3,300 PITIA means you're underwater on day one no matter how clean the rehab is.

    I've done two BRRRRs in Tampa on SFHs in the 155-205K range and even at those price points with DSCR refis at 7.5-8% my cash flow is thin, maybe 150-200/door after everything. The math worked because I was buying at 65-70 cents on the dollar in neighborhoods where rents actually support the debt. At a 550K ARV with $2,500 market rent your rent to price ratio is like 0.45%. You need that closer to 0.7-0.8% minimum for a BRRRR to pencil. No amount of rehab skill fixes a market math problem.

    Honestly in your shoes I'd flip it. You're in construction so your margins are better than most people on here. Take the 150-200K spread and redeploy into a market where the rent to price works. Or if you really want to hold, plan on leaving 80-100K in the deal and do a conventional refi instead of DSCR. Your W-2 income might qualify you where the property's DSCR won't. Not a true BRRRR but you still build equity through the rehab.

    The trap I see guys fall into is forcing a BRRRR in a market that only supports flips. Nothing wrong with flipping and redeploying the capital somewhere it actually cash flows.

  • Sean SmithBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Seattle, WA · Member since 2020 · 161 posts · 105 votes
    6mo

    @Nicholas Martinez the greater seattle market is tough to BRRRR right now. Rents are fairly flat, and purchase prices remain elevated. Generally speaking, you'll need to leave more money in the deal for it to work. The trick is finding sub-markets where rents are decently high and purchase prices are low. For example, Marysville is working better than most areas I've seen. You can get a decent 4 bed for ~600k and rent it for ~$3500. Find one that needs work and now you're in business.

    Fellow Real Estate Services537 Reviews
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 

    First the multiple posts that advocate purchasing the cash flow via lower LTV clearly have not performed the underwriting comparing the two options in Seattle. Leverage is RE superpower.

    I agree with your assessment that most rehabs do better as a flip than a brrrr, especially in the short term.   But flipping is a job, and the long term numbers may depict something very different.

    I will use your numbers but believe they would be challenging.   I am usually content if the value add is more than double the rehab costs.   Your numbers reflect a 5x value add compared to the cost of the value add.   I may have achieved 4x (barely), but never 5x but I digress. 

    $550k ARV - $350k purchase & rehab = $200k of added value.

    Refi at 80% LTV is $440k. The implication is you start with $90k in your pocket; the $90k near instant return makes this a no-brainer. If you flip with selling costs, additional hold time, and paying income tax you will be lucky to net $120k. $30k difference is substantial, but let's look at this as a hold.

    50% rule (which is conservative in high rent market like Seattle) shows this to be very negative : $2500 * 0.5 - $3300 =$-2,050/month.  Negative $24.6k/year

    Note alternate rent models (str, MTR, rent by room) could reduce this negative cash flow.  I would not expect any of them to add enough revenue to make this positive cash flow.  

    Equity paydown near $7k.  Negative $17.6k year.   The $90k in your pocket or $200k total value add can consume many years of this before being depleted.

    But what appreciation do you need to make this even?   $17.6k/$550k=3.2%   

    What is Seattle's appreciation?  5% average for this century

    https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seattle/real-estate

    If you get the 5% appreciation, is $27.5k.   Total profit would be $9.9k. Note the appreciation and rent compounds so that profit increases annually.

    Now look at the return. $0 invested (not quite accurate as you had something invested until the refi but maybe 25% of the $350k for a short duration, but we will forget a short outlay because it quickly becomes trivial). ROI is infinite.

    Because the property ends up acquired for no money, the cost of entry is irrelevant.  You own this high value property having not only extracted al, your investment, but in addition you pocketed $90k from the value add shortly after acquisition.

    How long would it take to make $90k in the cheap market that many of these post advocate? Is it even possible to add $250k of value to a SFH in these cheap markets.

    1.5 years ago I added a half bathroom out of existing space on a property with over $2k psf ARV. That half bathroom added $50k of value per the comps (if anyone wants to verify, mission beach 5 homes from the ocean). How much do you think a half bathroom in existing space can add in Cleveland?

    Note brrrr have challenges, but if I could achieve the numbers you specified, I would do it and I expect crazy returns from my RE efforts.   I typically do not consider purchasing RE unless the return is far over 20%   This qualifies, easily.

    Also I am not adverse to negative cash flow.   I purchased the largest negative cash flow non commercial property I have ever heard of.  $2.3m purchase fully occupied at a total $6k rent.   The property was up $1m above my purchase and rehab in 3 years.   I expect revenue will exceed $20k/month this year and has significant positive cash flow.

    Lots to consider.    As I already mentioned, I think your 5x return on the value add will be a challenge and because I used your numbers, this is one reason this is a no-brainer to pursue.  Lower value add multipliers will reduce the numbers, especially the $90k into your pocket at the refi.   

    Good luck

  • Kerlous TadresBusiness Member
    Realtor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6mo

    A clean BRRRR on a single-family won't cash flow after you refi at ARV unless you either leave more money in the deal or boost income with something like an ADU/mid-term rental; otherwise, it's usually a flip.

    Kerlous Tadres | Reafco Real Estate539 Reviews
  • Arman AhmedPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 905 votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 

    You're not missing anything. The challenge is that in high-price markets like Seattle, the rent often can't support the new loan after the refi, which makes the BRRRR math tough at today's rates. That's why a lot of investors doing BRRRR shift to more affordable Midwest markets where the purchase prices are much lower, but rents are still strong. In places like the Midwest, for example, you can buy distressed properties far below replacement cost, rehab them, and still have rents that support the refinance. The strategy itself still works, it just tends to work much better in markets where the price-to-rent ratio gives you more room to breathe.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 


    You're trying to BRRR the wrong property class!

    Class A properties are VERY difficult to cashflow right now - and for the foreseeable future.
    - It was relatively easy to do from 2010-2020, but then housing prices increased comparably past rents.

    We've had success with helping our clients BRRR Class B and SOME Class C.
    - Have to be VERY careful with Class C.
    - Also have to be VERY careful about budgets and tenant-proofing. There's a decent difference between a Class A rehab vs Class B vs Class C.

    • Dan H.Pro Member
      Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Drew Sygit:
      Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

      I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

      I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

      Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

      Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 


      You're trying to BRRR the wrong property class!

      Class A properties are VERY difficult to cashflow right now - and for the foreseeable future.
      - It was relatively easy to do from 2010-2020, but then housing prices increased comparably past rents.

      We've had success with helping our clients BRRR Class B and SOME Class C.
      - Have to be VERY careful with Class C.
      - Also have to be VERY careful about budgets and tenant-proofing. There's a decent difference between a Class A rehab vs Class B vs Class C.


      $550k ARV in Seattle is likely class c as the median home price is ~$1m.. Class a would be significantly above the median price.

      you know better than to judge class by price alone.  

      by the way I love brrrr in highest cost areas, Two of my last 3 rehabs have been in higher cost areas (one had $2k psf ARV). These markets provide increased opportunity to make large profits on the value add while extracting all of your investment capital and sometimes exit the refi with additional money (similar to being paid to purchase a property). The $0 acquisition (or better, paid to acquire) creates crazy ROI.

      If the OP has a property with numbers similar to what was described, that is a home run brrrr and should be pursued (but I am leery of her rehab cost versus her value added - seems too good, I have not done that well, yet).

      Good luck

  • Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6mo

    You’re not missing the concept of BRRRR — you’re running into the math that kills most single-family BRRRR deals in high-price markets like Seattle. The issue isn’t the rehab or equity… it’s rent vs debt service.

    Let’s break down your example.

    Deal Numbers

    Purchase: $300,000
    Rehab: $50,000
    Total Cost: $350,000

    After Repair Value (ARV): $550,000

    Typical DSCR refinance rules:

    • Max 75–80% LTV
    • Property must cash flow or break even
    • DSCR ratio usually ≥1.0 – 1.25

    Maximum refinance loan if lender allows 75% LTV:

    Loan = ARV \times LTV = 550000 \times 0.75 = 412500

    So in theory you could refinance $412,500.

    But DSCR lenders don't stop at LTV — they also check rent vs payment.

    Why Your Deal Fails DSCR

    Rent: $2,500

    Loan scenario:

    Loan: ~$412k
    Rate example: ~7% investor rate

    Estimated payment ≈ $2,700–$2,900 before taxes and insurance.

    DSCR calculation:

    DSCR = \frac{Rent}{Debt\ Service} = \frac{2500}{2800} \approx 0.89

    Most lenders require 1.0 – 1.25, so the loan fails.

    This is very common in West Coast markets where values are high but rents lag.

    Your Real Options

    1. Lower LTV Refinance

    Instead of 75%, refinance around 60–65% LTV.

    Example:

    65% of ARV = $357,500

    Loan payment becomes closer to $2,300–$2,400, which might pass DSCR.

    But that means you leave cash in the deal.

    2. Convert to Higher Rent Strategy

    If rent jumps to $3,300+, the deal works.

    Ways investors do this:

    • Mid-term rental (travel nurses)
    • Furnished rental
    • Add bedroom / ADU
    • Short-term rental if allowed

    Seattle investors often force higher rent through layout changes.

    3. BRRRR Into Multifamily Instead

    Single-family BRRRR works best when rent/value ratio is stronger.

    Rule many investors use:

    1% rule (rough guideline)
    $550k house should rent ≈ $5,500

    Seattle rents 0.4–0.5%, which is why BRRRR struggles there.

    Duplex / triplex deals fix this problem.

    4. Sell After Rehab (Flip Strategy)

    With your numbers:

    ARV: 550k
    Total cost: 350k

    Potential spread: $200k

    After selling costs:

    • Agent / closing: ~8% (~44k)
    • Carry / interest: ~20–30k

    Profit ≈ $120k+

    Flipping may actually outperform BRRRR in that market.

    What Most Experienced Investors Do in Seattle

    They don’t BRRRR single family.

    They either:

    1️⃣ Flip houses
    2️⃣ BRRRR small multifamily
    3️⃣ Add ADU / DADU to boost rent
    4️⃣ Convert to mid-term rental

    One Strategy You Might Be Missing

    Because you’re a contractor:

    Value-add construction BRRRR

    Example:

    Buy distressed house: $300k
    Add detached ADU: $150k
    Total: $450k

    Now value may be:

    $800k+ property producing $5k+ rent

    Now DSCR works.

    Contractors who BRRRR win by creating additional rentable units, not just cosmetic rehabs.

    💡 Quick rule used by many investors:

    If rent < 0.8% of value, BRRRR becomes difficult.

  • Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2026 · 24 posts · 18 votes
    6mo

    @Dan H. Fair point on the appreciation math. I was looking at this purely from a cash flow standpoint, which is how I underwrite my deals in Tampa, but you're right that the total return picture is different when you factor in Seattle appreciation rates. The 90K back in your pocket at refi is a real number and the 5% appreciation covers the negative cash flow with room to spare.

    Where I land differently is on the risk tolerance side. I've got 8 doors and a W-2 and I'm not in a position where I want to carry negative 2K/month hoping appreciation bails me out, even if the math says it probably will over a long enough timeline. That's more of a personal portfolio construction thing than a deal quality thing. Your point about the value add multiplier being aggressive is well taken too. If the actual spread on that deal is closer to 3x the refi cash-back shrinks and you're carrying more negative for longer.

    But I'll concede the bigger point. I said the math doesn't work and that was too absolute. The math doesn't work for cash flow, but the total return math could absolutely work if you can stomach the carry.

    • Dan H.Pro Member
      Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Marcus Delgado:

      @Dan H. Fair point on the appreciation math. I was looking at this purely from a cash flow standpoint, which is how I underwrite my deals in Tampa, but you're right that the total return picture is different when you factor in Seattle appreciation rates. The 90K back in your pocket at refi is a real number and the 5% appreciation covers the negative cash flow with room to spare.

      Where I land differently is on the risk tolerance side. I've got 8 doors and a W-2 and I'm not in a position where I want to carry negative 2K/month hoping appreciation bails me out, even if the math says it probably will over a long enough timeline. That's more of a personal portfolio construction thing than a deal quality thing. Your point about the value add multiplier being aggressive is well taken too. If the actual spread on that deal is closer to 3x the refi cash-back shrinks and you're carrying more negative for longer.

      But I'll concede the bigger point. I said the math doesn't work and that was too absolute. The math doesn't work for cash flow, but the total return math could absolutely work if you can stomach the carry.


       So let’s not include appreciation or equity pay down and let’s just look at the cash out versus the cash flow negative (that I used 50% expense ratio that would be high for Seattle).

      Op has instant $90k against any negative cash flow.   If the $90k is invested conservatively with a low return, and there is no cash flow increase (which would be extremely rare over a slightly long period especially in Seattle), the first negative cash flow that comes from a source other than this property (meaning w2, savings unrelated to this property, etc) will first occur in 4 years.  

      Under this bleak scenario, she has infinite return (not really because there was money invested a short period until the refi but it would be very high return) for nearly 4 years. 

      If we did the same calculation only accounting for the certain equity pay down (no appreciation or rent growth in excess of costs) the negative of $17.6k it would take 5.5 years.

      Imagine doing the same calculations against the full $200k value added above costs. Basically it would near double it because $110k is not achieving any return under the scenario of no appreciation and negative cash flow. A scenario with 8 or 11 years of no appreciation or rent growth. Note this would be when the first outside dollar is necessary to support the property (not including the period to the refi). Until this point she has return. Note it would take even longer to where she has contributed the usual 20% down of an investment property. Another over 4 years using the ARV. so over 15 years before her outlay is the same as someone buying this property at ARV as an investment at typical investment LTV.

      This likely would require near a black swan event for this scenario to occur. I do what most consider conservative underwriting (note I do not consider it that conservative). I expect I allocate more to maintenance/cap ex than 95% of the investors on this site. I allocated $600/month on a sierra luxury cabin in great shape I recently underwrote and that $600/month did not include the annual brush/fire management that I had as a separate line item. I would purchase the investment the OP described. I only buy when I can project far over 20% annually. I believe I could achieve near infinite ROI on that property (which is what I have achieved on most of my properties).

      I am a little skeptical if OP can achieve a 5x added value versus cost of the value add.   I may have achieved 4x (barely), but if they are a contractor they could possibly do better than the best I have done (I am not saying it is impossible, but would be rare).

      Leverage is RE's super power. If you can obtain a high value asset without trapping any capital, that is likely going to produce far better ROI than a mythical 2% monthly rent ratio purchased at 80% LTV in a cheap RE market. I challenge any one to show me a scenario that applies the same appreciation rate and market rent increase of the low cost (mythical) scenario that beats the OPS scenario applying the same appreciation and market rent increase. Equivalent to in excess of 100% LTV is hard to beat.

      Good luck


  • Lender · Miami, FL · Member since 2024 · 37 posts · 15 votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 




    One thing to keep in mind is that 6% rates really aren’t historically high. For a long stretch of real estate investing, especially pre-2010, investors were underwriting deals with rates in the 6–8% range and the strategy still worked as long as the numbers were solid.

    With BRRRR the key usually isn't just the rate — it's buying deep enough and creating enough equity during the rehab so the refinance works. If the deal only works when rates are extremely low, it’s usually a sign the purchase price is too high or the spread isn’t big enough.

    In your example, if ARV is around $550k, most DSCR lenders will refinance based on a percentage of value (often 70–75% LTV), so the question becomes whether the new loan amount after rehab covers your original loan plus costs.

    Also worth noting: Seattle rents vs prices can make BRRRR tougher because it’s a lower cap-rate market. A lot of investors in markets like that either:

    Leave some money in the deal, or

    Focus on bigger value-add opportunities where the rehab significantly increases rent.

    Your construction background is a big advantage though — controlling the rehab cost and timeline is usually where investors either make or lose the deal.


  • Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2026 · 24 posts · 18 votes
    6mo

    Yeah I can't poke holes in the math on that one. The 90K cushion covering years of negative before you ever touch your W-2 is a compelling way to frame it. I've just built my whole portfolio around not needing anything to go right on day one and I'm probably too locked into that mindset for markets where the real play is the equity. Good exchange, I'm going to think about this differently next time I see an appreciation market deal cross my desk.

  • Alfath AhmedBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6mo
    Quote from @Nicholas Martinez:

    I'm a newbie with only one rental in the Seattle area. I'm looking at purchasing distressed properties with hard money and then doing a cashout refinance once the property is rehabbed. I'm in construction and have done extensive remodels on very high-end homes, so I'm not worried about the rehab process. 

    I'm wondering how to make the BRRR work. For example, purchase price of a distressed single-family home is 300k. I take out a loan for the home plus rehab, let's say 350k. ARV is 550k once rehab is complete.

    Where I'm getting stuck is how to refinance out. Market rate for this single family is roughly $2,500, but a mortgage on a 550K home with 20% down is roughly $3,300. What are the options here? To make a DSCR loan work I'd have to have 275k in the home to get the mortgage and rent even out, which isn't possible with only 200k in equity. Am I missing something or would this just have to be a flip?

    Thanks for your thoughts and expertise. 

    The brrrr model is great for newer investors. It also creates an easy transition to flipping where you can make more capital to re-invest. @Nicholas Martinez you are on the right path. 

    Your strategy will just in a different market. You will need to look into the Midwest where the state is landlord friendly, home prices are cheaper, they match the appreciation rate of the east/west coast cities. 

    In my market, i own 28 rental units that i acquired using the brrrr method and have built a 7-figure net worth. 

    However, for a new investor, I recommend choosing a good tech/pop driven market and connecting with an investor-friendly agent. The agent should be an investor and should be able to connect you his hard-money/DSCR contacts, general contractors, and build scope of work, and connect you with a property manager than can lease and manage.

    Let me know if you have any questions. 

  • Jorge VazquezBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 679 votes
    6mo

    It's probably not your strategy that's the issue. It's more the location and price point. With BRRRR, the numbers usually work better when you're buying at the high end of the low end of the market. Once purchase prices start getting above about $300K, the rent often can't keep up with the mortgage, especially with today's rates.

    In many Florida markets, the deals that work are in areas where rent has a strong floor, even if that means Section 8 as a backup option. That gives you some protection if the regular rental market softens.

    Another thing that helps is looking for neighborhoods where other investors have already started buying and fixing properties. That's usually a good sign the area is moving in the right direction. If you can get in early and buy the right property at the right price, the BRRRR model still works. It just takes being very picky about the market and the numbers.

    Graystone Investment Group4.6268 Reviews
  • Member since 2026 · 35 posts · 3 votes
    5mo

    You're not missing anything — with those exact numbers and today's rates, that specific deal is very tight as a long‑term BRRRR hold and may pencil better as a flip.

    Where the math breaks

    With a 300k300k purchase, 50k50k rehab, and 550k550k ARV, you're at about 64%64% of value all‑in, which is solid from an equity standpoint.
    The challenge is that at current rates, a new loan sized off that 550k550k value creates a payment that outpaces what a median‑rent single‑family can support at 2,5002,500 per month, especially if you’re assuming a full principal and interest payment on a 30‑year fixed.

    A few levers you can pull

    • Loan structure, not just rate: Some BRRRR investors are using DSCR products with interest‑only periods (for example, 5 or 10 years interest‑only on a 30‑year term), which brings the payment down and helps the DSCR pencil even when rates are higher.
    • Leverage / cash‑out expectations: Cash‑out DSCR refis commonly cap around 70–75% LTV; if you don't push leverage to the max, your rate is better and the payment drops, but you leave more capital in the deal.
    • Rents vs. property type: A lot of BRRRR investors are shifting toward small multis or properties with ADUs/extra units because the additional rent helps the DSCR work at today's rates in markets like Seattle.

    When it’s a flip instead of BRRRR

    Sometimes the right move is to treat a deal as a flip, take the profit, and roll that capital into a project where the rent‑to‑value ratio is stronger from day one.
    If the stabilized rent ceiling in that submarket is truly around 2,5002,500 and there's no realistic path to increasing income (extra unit, furnished rental, etc.), forcing it into a BRRRR can just lock you into negative or razor‑thin cash flow.

    How I’d underwrite your example

    In your scenario, I’d model:

    • What a DSCR refinance looks like at different LTVs (say 65–75%) and rate ranges common in today's market.
    • How the deal changes if it’s interest‑only for a period versus fully amortizing.

    If you want to share rough numbers on a specific property (area of Seattle, taxes, insurance, realistic rent range), I'm happy to walk through how I'd structure the financing and whether it leans BRRRR or flip for you.

  • Ryan ThomsonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5mo

    The refinance step is where BRRR breaks right now. Your math is right.

    $550K property, 20% down at 7% = roughly $2,930/mo P&I. Against $2,500 rent, you're negative before insurance and taxes. That's a flip, not a rental.

    One thing to consider with your construction skills: instead of buying distressed with hard money, look for properties with existing FHA or VA loans from 2020-2022. Every one of those is legally assumable, and the rates are typically 2.5-4%.

    Same $550K area, say there's a $420K FHA loan at 3.1% on it. P&I drops to about $1,800. Against $2,500 rent, that's $700/month of breathing room for expenses and reserves. Completely different equation.

    The piece you cover is the equity gap (purchase price minus the existing loan balance). Cash, second loan, or seller carry on that portion. Even a second at 9% on a smaller balance blends out cheaper than one big loan at 7%.

    You lose the distressed discount play, but you gain actual cash flow from month one. And if you find an assumable property that needs cosmetic work (not a gut rehab), you can still force appreciation with your background. Paint, flooring, landscaping, maybe a kitchen refresh. You know what moves value.

    Seattle has decent FHA penetration from the 2020-2021 boom. Worth filtering for it before assuming BRRR is dead in your market.

    The Assumable Guy544 Reviews
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