Should I Sign-Up For Adwords Nerds?

27 Replies

Hello BiggerPockets Community,

I am considering signing up with Adwords Nerds (https://adwordsnerds.com/) for assistant in managing paid online marketing (pay per click, Facebook, Google/Bing/Yahoo).

I have already run Adwords/Bings PPC for several years and effectively run it (generally, my cost per lead ranges from $80 to $170 per mo) and my ROI is 4.5 to 5 to 1. I have an extensive negative keyword database, good handle on modifiers. My budget on online marketing is $3.5k per month - but that is flexible.

I've been feeling like, we've done okay, signing up with Adwords Nerds or comparable service would help take my accounts to the next level (i.e. the $2,000 per mo cost is essentially one deal per year - so if I can learn enough for an extra deal every other month it is a wise decision). 

My keywords are very plain - pretty much "+sell +house" with varied bid structures depending on addition terms. I haven't really explored others.

For those who have used the service: does a person with a reasonably good handle on the service stand to gain a lot by working with professionals who are doing this every day? Or on the other hand, is this service more suited for people who have no idea what they are doing. 

Other suggestions, comments, thoughts as to Adwords Nerds team?

Thank you so much.

I'm a big supporter of outsourcing anything that is not your core business. I was capable, and pretty good, at running my own paud online advertising. I was using adwords but found FB Ads are more efficient. 

But the return on investment of my time on advertising doesn't even compare with the return I get by putting together deals.

My recommendation is to higher the experts to do what they do well. They can adjust to any changes that may happen in the industry. And who knows, they may even get you more leads than you were able to get on your own.

Guys,

SEO , well at least the end goal of SEO is to be ranking high. Once you are #1 on google, you think you are done? Heck no. SEO is not going to get you ANY leads. SEO just and only bring you TRAFFIC.

Leads come from your credibility score.

Everyone thinks SEO is the end of your problems... it really is just half the solution!

@Lucas Machado @Jim Pellerin @Jerryll Noorden

First off, Adwords nerds, in my opinion, is a very good service for investors. I’ve personally learned tactics, strategies, etc.. by Dan (owner).

Now, do you stand to gain by working with a professional? !00% yes you do.

Time/Money

Scaling your business & expanding requires you to perform the same work more effectively & still maintain an acceptable profit. 

The most common way to do that is delegating tasks out to others. Being able to take the tasks that need to be done and handing it off enables you to now free up your time. 

Outsourcing your marketing allows you to concentrate on more important business matters. 

Also, it improves your personal life due to the fact that you can now invest more time for family & friends. Not to mention you may also have a decrease in stress because the marketing efforts are now being handed off. 

The only thing you really play a role in now is managing and making sure things are getting done to your liking.

Professional vs DIY

When working with a professional team or individual you are getting specific benefits you would have not if doing yourself such as…

  • Up to date

As someone who works in the digital marketing field, it is my job to keep up with the latest advertising trends, standards, and technology. Knowing which technology such as messenger marketing, lead ads, etc… allows me to better know when to use certain strategies.

  • Better ROI

Obviously, a business owner is only outsourcing if they feel the next person will do it better. You want to be getting the best ROI possible and doing it yourself can lead to a lot of testing and wasted ad spend that a professional has already gone through a problem & knows how to overcome the issue.

  • Achieve Results Faster

Frankly, you truly don't know, what you don't know and there's going to be a lot of guesswork you're going to have to do. Professionals are aware of the ins & outs and are better equipped to do things more effectively. The many mistakes you may make most likely has already happened to the professional so they will know more than you on what to next.

Now with that being said outsourcing your marketing is not only for beginners, but it's also for beginners and those who want to free up more time from business tasks.

Now obviously there are those who are good and those who are bad. I want to give you some insight into actually choosing an agency or professional. 

*This is my original post which you can find  here or ( https://bit.ly/2SnAgxy )*

PPC Company

Heres how to choose the BEST Adwords company for YOUR business. Real Estate or not.

So where can you actually go to find and Adwords Company/ Adwords Manager?

Well you have a couple of options

- Upwork, Fiverr, freelancer, etc...

- Local Google Searches (ex. Adwords management in Houston, PPC management in Houston, etc...)

- Generic Google Searches (ex. Adwords management companies, Adwords management for reis, etc...)

- Ask website provider/ designer for a referral

- General referrals... ask your business friends

Know that you have composed a list of companies/managers to choose from you will now need to Figure out what services are offered

Types of services offered

- Audits: Someone dives into your account to tell you exactly what you are possibly doing wrong.

Audits come at one of the cheapest cause you can get it for free or for a small amount

Levels of audits

- Free Audits: Companies that offer this free service are most likely interested in a campaign that is going to be spending large amounts in hopes to hook you on for possibly a long-term contract. However, this is just the majority not all companies are interested in this. Me personally, I offer free audits at the moment and I'm not interested in a long-term contract agreement So I that goes to show not to judge a manager /company on their interest based on a free audit

- Paid Audits: These audits should be of very high quality. Taking a deep look at the account to point out any and all possible ways that you are doing your account profitability a disservice along with how to fix the issues brought up. Definitely a very valuable service for the fact that you get a professional to dive in and point out exactly what's wrong and how to fix it.

Side Note: You may find yourself getting freaked out by a written up 10-page report of everything that is wrong with your account. Fact is there is no audit where they are just going to point out what's going well with the account. The point of the audit is to give the company the opportunity to show you what's wrong and how THEY can fix it. So keep that in mind and make sure you ask questions to actually validate the points brought up.

One Time Optimization: Good for one time builds. So you can contact an agency for one build. If your a hands-on business owner and want to have your account set up correctly then this is an option.

- Coaching: Need to accurately be able to explain something in a way that someone can understand it whether they're advanced or new. Don't let them get too deep and stumble and over think to the point where you're confused and understand less than before because now you have more questions. Coaching also doesn't have to be a one-time session, it is most likely better to have ongoing coaching.

- Ongoing Management: Includes initial build and or ongoing management & optimization of a campaign that's been running. Valuable for the fact that there's a knowledge of the history & the change in the seasonality of the industry in your campaign and what's important to you compared to someone just jumping in. With this, you can avoid the constant weekly meetings and consistent emailing back and forth.

See even in bad times, the manager can make adjustments better because they know what your looking to achieve and can make decisions in your best interest.

Side Note: With ongoing management, they should be getting results that pay for itself.

How to qualify a company

When qualifying an Adwords company you are going to want to ask them this question... "what can I expect for a cost per click and cost per acquisition). WHat you are looking for is for them to vocalize the process. To hear them say this hypothetical CPC will result in this hypothetical CPA. If they guarantee you a range then ask if they have worked with anyone in that location you're looking to advertise in because of its total BS if they haven't worked in your market.

I believe an Adwords manager cannot promise anything. They can't possibly guarantee any leads (NOT A SINGLE ONE) due to the fact that your website may totally suck, which is often the case. What a company can guarantee is quality traffic. That is the only factor they can control. So showing up for relevant traffic that has the highest likelihood of converting

Aside from this, you need to know exactly whos managing your account. So ask "who will be hand on managing my account and how will I be in contact with that person before I consider your services". You want to be able to physically talk to the person in your account and not just talk to the sales team.

Other qualification can be

- How much time will you be spending on my account

- will you report the search terms *very important*

- will I own my account *RUN if they say no*

- Ask what they think of the landing page *how well will it convert*

- Do they have a partner badge

- Do they experience in your industry

- Do they have experience in your field *so don't hire an e-commerce company to find you, motivated sellers,*

What to watch out for with an Adwords manager

- Mixing display campaign data with search campaign data

CPC is dirt cheap with display clicks compared with search, so it will seem that your avg CPC is lower than it really is on search. Ask AdWords manger to segment display data from search data

-Targeting worldwide with very low bids

People will click and fill out your form from outside where you want to advertise like Uganda or anywhere where there's cheaper traffic. The report will seem as if you are getting a cheap CPA & CPC but it's all just super trash traffic. Could set it up as advertising 80% in the target location and 20% worldwide. Tell your Adwords manager where you want to be showing up and check with your leads to make sure they are in your target market.

-Not adding common negative keywords

calls could come in and be labeled as a conversion even though the search terms was shown with previous data to drive unqualified traffic. However, the AdWords manager will just sneak it in and say it just keeps slipping through. Demand your search terms to combat this issue.

-Bidding on competitors

Most people don't really pay attention to ads and will just click the first search result when searching for a competitor. Results in CPC and CPA. Fix this by demanding the search terms.

-1 sec call tracking conversion

A 1 second phone call is not a conversion. The result is an appearance of a lower CPA. Set conversion time to what it takes to have a real conversation with a motivated seller

-Not giving access to account *fear you're going to mess something up*

DO NOT AGREE TO THIS. would avoid all problems by just looking into the account

-Guaranteeing fake goals as a success metric

Failure to look at what the real success metrics are which is mostly CPA because you are a lead generating business.

I have to say however that you need to trust your Adwords manager to get the job done. If you don't then find a new one. That manager was hired by you for their skill set and they should know what they are doing a lot better than you.

 So don't critic everything and breath down their back. Yes, they should always be teaching you by explaining by don't send a million emails asking a question about everything you think is wrong when in reality that's how it should be. I can tell you right now the manager won't appreciate it and might create a bit of annoyance dealing with a client like that. That includes asking a million flipping times "hey, I don't see my ads?!?!". Just trust me on that, create good honest relationships.

Let me know if you have any questions... always happy to help!

Do NOT sign up. I spent ~$12,000 over 90 days and got 0 deals...I followed up diligently with all the leads that came in. The leads were not quality leads at all and some of them were even looking to rent?!? The Adword Nerds market themselves as people who know the REI market but it's a farce. Don't believe them. I asked for a partial refund and I got stories.

They promise that Dan Barret (the supposed guru behind it all) will help you but they just assign your account to a bunch of folks that don't know the first thing about real estate investment.

Don't waste your money and your time. Don't fall for their smooth sales process like I did. They guaranteed that I would make a deal in 90 days as long as I do my part and follow up. But how can I follow up on rubbish leads??? And when I did follow up, it came out to nothing.

Originally posted by @Brian Deer :

Does anyone else have any experiences to share, positive or negative? I'm having a hard time finding reviews outside of those they use on their site, which are obviously all positive.

 I just wrote an entire book of the bad experience my clients are having with adwords nerds.

I decided to delete it and give Dan a chance to step up and make it better.

But the services provided were unacceptable. THe team knows nothing about SEO and they are absolutely winging it. It is a farce. When you know nothing about SEO it is easy to convince anyone you are great, but the second you try this with someone that knows a thing about SEO, it doesnt work.

10 K  was paid and not a SINGLE lead.

When I questioned what they were doing, they completely are winging things and when I confronted them with my knowledge of SEO and explained WHY what htye were doing was wrong, they hung up on me with my client still on the line.

You do not hang up on someone that pays you 10K while producing ZERO LEADS!

Again Dan, I am giving you a chance to step up and take responsibility and based on this I will decide what to do. 

Wow, thanks Jerryll. I already decided not to do anything with them but this cements it. I actually contacted quite a few of the positive reviewers they listed on their site after finding them on Facebook and LinkedIn. Not a single one has responded. It all seems very fishy so decided it best to move on.

Hello everyone in this thread! @Brian Deer @Jerryll Noorden

Apologies for my late reply. I wasn’t tagged, so I didn’t get a notification.

I do not typically directly reply to comments like this - People are allowed to have their opinions without me butting in. But since Jerryll has specifically asked me to reply...

First of all - we DID actually hang up on Jerryll. In fact, I went further, and asked our team to no longer allow him on client calls. (Jerrylll is not our client, but since he referred this client to us and wanted to be involved, he was given this privilege).

Why?

Because he was rude, talked over my employee, and didn’t listen to anything we said.

I will never, for any amount of money, allow my team to take personal abuse.

Secondly, I would note that though Jerryll says above that we "know nothing about SEO" and are "winging it," we are not doing SEO for his clients, but PPC (paid ads). He knows the difference, so perhaps this was a simple mistake.

By “winging it,” Jerryll seems to be referring to the fact that we split-test multiple pages and ads for every client in order to find what performs best. If this is, in fact, what he means, then yes - we do hundreds of multivariate tests a month. This is an industry best-practice and a huge reason for our long term success. I am happy to dig deeper into this if it’s valuable to anyone.

Third, I feel absolutely no need to defend our performance. We've been in business for close to a decade. We have helped HUNDREDS of investors. Our retention rate from our initial program to month to month services is 80% (meaning, 80% of our clients CHOOSE to continue working with us past their initial contract).

Does that mean we always succeed? No. I am incredibly open to EVERYONE about the realities of this type of marketing and the risks involved.

Anyone who tells you they ALWAYS succeed is either inexperienced, or trying to sell you something.

I am 100% willing to anonymize and share this client’s performance data, a complete list of changes made by our team, search terms that generated clicks, screenshots of landing pages run, and a transcript or recording of all client calls, so people on BP can judge for themselves.

I want to respect everyone’s privacy, so I’ll let Jerryll make the final call on that.

Jerryll, if you’d like to have a respectful conversation about client performance and how we can hash it out, my door is always open. I have great respect for what you've accomplished and would love to be able to use your feedback constructively.

Since I am too busy to guarantee I will see any given post on BP, you could always email our client help email and request to talk to me. I’ll shoot you my cell and we can discuss (if you can, try texting me first, so I know you’re not one of the five million robo calls I receive each day!)

I'm not typically on here, so to anyone else who has questions, wants more information, or just wants to say hi, you can reach me at our website (wanted to post my email, but that's not allowed). Feel free to reach out as well if you'd like me to pop back into this thread, but don't think I've seen the notification.

Dan

Originally posted by @Dan Barrett :

Hello everyone in this thread! @Brian Deer @Jerryll Noorden

Apologies for my late reply. I wasn’t tagged, so I didn’t get a notification.

I do not typically directly reply to comments like this - People are allowed to have their opinions without me butting in. But since Jerryll has specifically asked me to reply...

First of all - we DID actually hang up on Jerryll. In fact, I went further, and asked our team to no longer allow him on client calls. (Jerrylll is not our client, but since he referred this client to us and wanted to be involved, he was given this privilege).

Why?

Because he was rude, talked over my employee, and didn’t listen to anything we said.

I will never, for any amount of money, allow my team to take personal abuse.

Secondly, I would note that though Jerryll says above that we "know nothing about SEO" and are "winging it," we are not doing SEO for his clients, but PPC (paid ads). He knows the difference, so perhaps this was a simple mistake.

By “winging it,” Jerryll seems to be referring to the fact that we split-test multiple pages and ads for every client in order to find what performs best. If this is, in fact, what he means, then yes - we do hundreds of multivariate tests a month. This is an industry best-practice and a huge reason for our long term success. I am happy to dig deeper into this if it’s valuable to anyone.

Third, I feel absolutely no need to defend our performance. We've been in business for close to a decade. We have helped HUNDREDS of investors. Our retention rate from our initial program to month to month services is 80% (meaning, 80% of our clients CHOOSE to continue working with us past their initial contract).

Does that mean we always succeed? No. I am incredibly open to EVERYONE about the realities of this type of marketing and the risks involved.

Anyone who tells you they ALWAYS succeed is either inexperienced, or trying to sell you something.

I am 100% willing to anonymize and share this client’s performance data, a complete list of changes made by our team, search terms that generated clicks, screenshots of landing pages run, and a transcript or recording of all client calls, so people on BP can judge for themselves.

I want to respect everyone’s privacy, so I’ll let Jerryll make the final call on that.

Jerryll, if you’d like to have a respectful conversation about client performance and how we can hash it out, my door is always open. I have great respect for what you've accomplished and would love to be able to use your feedback constructively.

Since I am too busy to guarantee I will see any given post on BP, you could always email our client help email and request to talk to me. I’ll shoot you my cell and we can discuss (if you can, try texting me first, so I know you’re not one of the five million robo calls I receive each day!)

I'm not typically on here, so to anyone else who has questions, wants more information, or just wants to say hi, you can reach me at our website (wanted to post my email, but that's not allowed). Feel free to reach out as well if you'd like me to pop back into this thread, but don't think I've seen the notification.

Dan

Dan. Honestly I am very disappointed with your reply.

No dude, I was not rude. Know this. I am straightforward and I do not take BS and I won't allow other people to play me. I am very direct as you must have noticed here. So let me tell you what actually happened.

Keep in mind you were not there, I was, my client was!  

First.

You didnt reply because you were not tagged? There are several bad reviews about your company here, but you choose to reply to mine ONLY because I have an SEO following here and my "Rude" comments could cost you clients. That is the only reason you are here defending your online image. Why have you not replied to the other posts of the "little" people that are not happy with you? 

My client and I were both very surprised  your guy hung up on us. Rude or not, you do not hang up on a client especially when he is paying you SO much money! There is simply no excuse Dan!

If you really cared about your clients, you would have at least contacted me and asked me what happened. You would have asked me what the issue was and see how it could be resolved. You did not! That to me, loudly screams there is something wrong on your end. We were concerned and disappointed with your performance, no one was being rude. 

I referred my client to you just because investorcarrot is working with you. We received horrible performance and my client has spent a LOT of money on this. You would think AT LEAST 1 decent lead. But nothing. Of course my client is going to be concerned. This is obvious. Instead of your team explaining things to him that make sense, you guys are throwing absolute fluff at him. I was literally laughing in disbelief realizing that THIS is what you tell people that know nothing about SEO?

He may not know anything about SEO, but I do. What your guy was telling him while I was on the conference call was absolute ludicrous. He was simply saying stuff he heard being said over and over all over internet, while obviously wrong. Trying to confuse my clients with all sorts of jargon that makes NO sense!

He tried to tell him that the first 2K was spent doing TESTS to see where the form should be, and what color the button should be such. Then he goes to say you have over 600 clients so you know what you are doing... so you would think that after 600 clients you would know where the button goes no? What color the button needs to be.

When I gave him a lesson on SEO and explained to him calmly how and why I feel, he is doing it wrong he hung up on me and my client (while my client is paying you over 10 GRAND).


No offense but yes. I strongly feel like you guys are doing it wrong. Maybe winging it is the wrong wording, because I believe you seriously THINK you are doing it right will all your little data. But you are doing it wrong! And it is fine if other people pay you to do it wrong. But if it is MY client,... sorry but I will step up and say something when to me, you are doing it wrong and wasting my clients money!

You think throwing graphs and SEO terms in my face scares me? pffft

This is what I told your guy. 

I told him to stop spending the 2K in testing as I do not at all believe the form should be above the fold. It does not matter. He was the one that kept telling me that it should. So I gave him a simple example! 

What do eCommerce sites do? They try to get you to fill in your email! They just want your email address (in exchange of some free report or something of "value". That alone is already hard enough!! 

Now... What are WE trying to do? We are trying to get people to fill in their ACTUAL and PHYSICAL address!

Do you REALLY think  single mom "Betty" living alone with her 2 kids will give her address out to some form, without knowing who you are, what you do, what your name is and some  verifiable info about you.. i.e. without scrolling down passed the fold?!

NO!

They NEED to see your about us page. They NEED to be able to find info about you. So all you "Landing page" freaks that claim you need the form on the first page knows NOTHING about SEO or marketing. NOTHING!

Look at A website below. You are good at landing pages right? What happens after someone fills in the form? Do they stick around? Do they keep reading the page? No they bounce. They filled in the form they are GONE.



So it is quite safe to assume that every click you see here on this page is from someone that did NOT YET fill in the form. So what does this image below truly represent? It represents where people click BEFORE they fill in the form. It represents what people NEED to see and know, BEFORE they fill in the form. Those witht he most clicks are the about us page, "our Company Page and the "How it works" page.

So while you are spending your clients well earned money on "figuring things out" you are inherently doing it wrong! People that truly are motivated to sell WANT to see and know about you, BECAUSE they are serious about selling. They do not want to waste time with tire kickers or people that are not going to buy their house.

Your numbers say different because paid traffic doesnt behave like motivated sellers. SO you are taking the wrong conclusion that the behavior of people clicking on your ads look and feel like those in desperate need to sell.

Your data does NOT represent motivated sellers. Your data represent people that just saw your add and said.. OK what the heck, I want to see how much my house is worth... sure some are also motivated but by far the majority are not motivated and now you base your entire strategy on this corrupted data!


Paid traffic is NOT (necessarily) motivated traffic. And when I told your guy this he jsut got pissed because he just couldn't respond and hung up. Period.

So: You charge people a crap load of money and your customer support.. well.. You refused to talk to my client when they had legitimate concerns.

Now my client just wanted to talk to you because your company guys hung up on him just because he couldn't save himself when he had to explain to me, someone that DOES know SEO why you spent 2000 dollars just to test "things". 

And I am not the only one with super bad experience with your company.

Say what you want. You guys are doing it wrong and are wasting 600 of your clients money. Sure lucky them that did get a return. 

I do not care about your numbers or your graphs, I care about LEADS that are highly motivated. Nothing else matters!

Your guy dared justifying the 2K spent with (then) zero results, zero leads, as "we are just testing  where the forms should be". Come on man. Are you serious?!

You are taking advantage of people that know nothing about SEO and you are charging them a CRAP load just because you make it seem more difficult than it really is. 

$4,000/month for set up charges??? What friggin set up charges??


Yes I know SEO. I know what is wrong and I know what works and I know BS when I see it or hear it.

I am not paying a damn CENT for these leads. This is REAL data interpretation. Real data processing. And what your guy was trying to sell us as to why there are no leads, was absolute BS!

So, I am done with this.

Say what you will, come with your fancy graphs and numbers. I do not care.

You do not hang up on a client just because you can't justify incompetence!

Now chill, and go find an other sucker to extort an other 4K from!

Originally posted by @Dan Barrett :

Hello everyone in this thread! @Brian Deer @Jerryll Noorden

Apologies for my late reply. I wasn’t tagged, so I didn’t get a notification.

I do not typically directly reply to comments like this - People are allowed to have their opinions without me butting in. But since Jerryll has specifically asked me to reply...

First of all - we DID actually hang up on Jerryll. In fact, I went further, and asked our team to no longer allow him on client calls. (Jerrylll is not our client, but since he referred this client to us and wanted to be involved, he was given this privilege).

Why?

Because he was rude, talked over my employee, and didn’t listen to anything we said.

I will never, for any amount of money, allow my team to take personal abuse.

Secondly, I would note that though Jerryll says above that we "know nothing about SEO" and are "winging it," we are not doing SEO for his clients, but PPC (paid ads). He knows the difference, so perhaps this was a simple mistake.

By “winging it,” Jerryll seems to be referring to the fact that we split-test multiple pages and ads for every client in order to find what performs best. If this is, in fact, what he means, then yes - we do hundreds of multivariate tests a month. This is an industry best-practice and a huge reason for our long term success. I am happy to dig deeper into this if it’s valuable to anyone.

Third, I feel absolutely no need to defend our performance. We've been in business for close to a decade. We have helped HUNDREDS of investors. Our retention rate from our initial program to month to month services is 80% (meaning, 80% of our clients CHOOSE to continue working with us past their initial contract).

Does that mean we always succeed? No. I am incredibly open to EVERYONE about the realities of this type of marketing and the risks involved.

Anyone who tells you they ALWAYS succeed is either inexperienced, or trying to sell you something.

I am 100% willing to anonymize and share this client’s performance data, a complete list of changes made by our team, search terms that generated clicks, screenshots of landing pages run, and a transcript or recording of all client calls, so people on BP can judge for themselves.

I want to respect everyone’s privacy, so I’ll let Jerryll make the final call on that.

Jerryll, if you’d like to have a respectful conversation about client performance and how we can hash it out, my door is always open. I have great respect for what you've accomplished and would love to be able to use your feedback constructively.

Since I am too busy to guarantee I will see any given post on BP, you could always email our client help email and request to talk to me. I’ll shoot you my cell and we can discuss (if you can, try texting me first, so I know you’re not one of the five million robo calls I receive each day!)

I'm not typically on here, so to anyone else who has questions, wants more information, or just wants to say hi, you can reach me at our website (wanted to post my email, but that's not allowed). Feel free to reach out as well if you'd like me to pop back into this thread, but don't think I've seen the notification.

Dan

Hello Dan, this is Jeff Friedman from New Jersey, a new client of yours as of August 12th, 2019. I have absolutely no experience with SEO, or PAY PER CLICK marketing. After being recommended by Jerryll Noorden, I signed up for a four month trial period with your company. After a month and a half with your company, and spending many thousands of dollars (six Thousand Dollars already!, (to be specific $1,900 in ad spend in just one month), and receiving a total of three "bad" leads, I wanted to reach out to your team to find out what was going on.I wanted Jerryll on the call as he is very knowledgeable when it comes to conversions, ranking and marketing in general. When Jerryll heard the explanation from Justin what was going on, he simply suggested to take a different approach and provided logical explanation why he believes we were getting no results. And honestly it made total sense to me. Justin kept repeating himself that you have 600 clients and know what you are doing, yet not responding to Jerryll's (and my) concerns. When Jerryll tried again explaining our issues Justin hung up on both of us.As I am paying your company so much money for pretty much no results, it raised a huge red flag for me and I then tried to reach you, Dan directly. I was blown away when I never received a response from my many e-mails, and voice message attempts to reach you directly! Then when I complained to your staff member Justin about this lack of a response, he responded that "DAN DOES NOT RESPOND TO CLIENTS CALLS OR E-MAILS", but rather allows staff to explain that you are unreachable, and hung up on Jerryll Noorden, and I during questioning your staff member Justin. Jerryll and I were never rude during this conversation! In my entire life, I have never paid for a service, and be told that I cannot talk directly to the person that ultimately makes all decisions of the company on "how and if" my money was spent for a service that I contracted for....
Again, I am asking for you to reach out to me personally, so that I can hear directly from you why I am not getting the results of your experience (or lack of results) from what I expected. What should my expectations ultimately be.....if I do not receive any leads being generated by your company's efforts in the near future, why should I be forced to continue to pay for lack of response from you as well as lack of results? That should be my choice....

Man I wish there was a button for “view the post that has been removed” can whoever posted above and got deleted take a look at their post and figure out what got flagged and rephrase to make it less objectionable.  

On the edge of seat.  

Moderator Note: The post above was removed because it was a double post. It did not violate our posting rules.

I'm not here to defend anyone I'm just gonna leave my experience here. I've been a client of Dan's since early 2017 for just PPC and then over time also added SEO to the mix. I'm in a HOT market (Philadelphia) tons of competition. I've had other companies and prefer these guys better, I continue to dominate my market in terms of Google rankings and we are consistently closing 3-5 deals per month from online leads. There have definitely been bumps in the road but ultimately we worked together to fix them. I understand that both PPC/SEO takes time and I'm in it for the long haul. Entering 2020 and we already closed on 3 online leads. Take it for whatever its worth just my 2 cents and my experience with the company. 

I signed up with Adwords nerds and @Dan Barrett at the end of 2018...gave them $7500 to get started. This never got off the ground, we never started any campaigns and they did not do any work. Months ago I started asking for a refund because I just couldn't do everything they were asking of me and knew it would be a waste if I wasn't committed. Now they are saying that because they "set up my account" that I am entitled to $0 refund...THEY DIDNT PERFORM ANY SERVICES!!!! , send us a refund please. to be clear, there were no ads run, no work done at all!

Originally posted by @Rachel Zelaya :

I signed up with Adwords nerds and @Dan Barrett at the end of 2018...gave them $7500 to get started. This never got off the ground, we never started any campaigns and they did not do any work. Months ago I started asking for a refund because I just couldn't do everything they were asking of me and knew it would be a waste if I wasn't committed. Now they are saying that because they "set up my account" that I am entitled to $0 refund...THEY DIDNT PERFORM ANY SERVICES!!!! , send us a refund please. to be clear, there were no ads run, no work done at all!

 Seriously...

They keep coming up with excuses. I told then they are doing it all wrong, and their Ego is just incredible..

they think, NO ONE could possibly know more about marketing then them.

They refused to listen to me, and they hung up on me.

I gave them pointers and explained to them why exactly it was wrong what they are doing and told them to change it. They refused.

Well we stopped their services and now look at the leads coming in... the second WE took over!

This is for a website in North Carolina that I had created and "gave" to my partners there to get leads.

Every singe one of these leads are PPC leads, paid traffic with a budget of $1500/month!

So friggin stubborn these people. Pisses me off!

My clients are also waiting for a refund, and I will keep on making noise until they give the damn refund back to them! 

Originally posted by @David Bokman :

I'm not here to defend anyone I'm just gonna leave my experience here. I've been a client of Dan's since early 2017 for just PPC and then over time also added SEO to the mix. I'm in a HOT market (Philadelphia) tons of competition. I've had other companies and prefer these guys better, I continue to dominate my market in terms of Google rankings and we are consistently closing 3-5 deals per month from online leads. There have definitely been bumps in the road but ultimately we worked together to fix them. I understand that both PPC/SEO takes time and I'm in it for the long haul. Entering 2020 and we already closed on 3 online leads. Take it for whatever its worth just my 2 cents and my experience with the company. 

No offense but.. if you are a client of  the nerds, since 2017...  you should have been on the #1 spot by now. And according to my searches you are not! (so you do not dominate your market online).


See,... this is what I see constantly happening. You have NO clue what SEO or PPC truly is and you simply do not know better. You have NO idea what is good performance and what isn't. (no, PPC does NOT take time. PPC is pretty much "instant")

But allow me to share what performance is.
Dallas: SUPER competitive. I believe he ranked #1 in 5 months.

Utah, my loyal minion. I am not sure how long it took him.. 4-5 months?

Ask him @Stanford Neal Mead

Another one here, La Plata CO. Took him 4-5 months

Augusta: He ranked #1 in 4 months.

South Cali. Ranked #1 in 3 months

@Eric Nerhod Ask him 

again...Southern California, same guy. Super competitive. He ranked #1 in 3 months

Detroit. Mr. @Dennis Fassett . Did a few podcasts with Carrot. He ranked #1 in 28 DAYS!! 

Jacksonville Fl. He ranked #1 in 7 months, with a brand new website in a crazy competitive city.

Mr. @Nathan Claire

Why don't you ask him about it!

I checked your market, and you do not yet rank #1 and I didn't see your ad anywhere on the page...

Then your backlink profile from what I can see, 2 groups have been doing them. On one side a few backlinks are decent, and then you have a bunch of extremely shady backlinks.

This is what I see in a lot of the Nerds clients. Super shady backlinks. Tell me, am I correct? I am willing to bet you did a few yourself (good links) and the nerds did a bunch. Links from Russia, and Thailand, completely irrelevant context...

I will tell you this. Enjoy your Google standing right now, because the second someone decides to invade your market and they know SEO, you are gone!

ANYONE can rank their site #1 using shady blackhat methods like  that shady backlink profile they got going for you.

But doing it the whitehat way... THAT is the challenge!

Then lastly..

I am truly happy for you that you got a great experience with them (you just don't know enough to know different)... but that doesn't mean anything.

See it this way. If your friend beats little puppies for no reason, but he is nice to you does that suddenly make him no longer an evil person? No.

It doesn't matter how many people were lucky enough for things to go smoothly so they didn't have to show their true colors. It is not when things go smooth that matter. It is when things DO NOT go smoothly... THAT is when companies should strive to offer good customer support.

My clients were getting no leads and they were forced to KEEP paying them every month.

If you come at me with the excuse "ohh we already set up the account".. that already is horse crap because  they just copy the provide over and make some tweaks here and there.. but what is the reason that they had to keep on paying month after month when they simply are not performing any results??

So no, I do not appreciate you coming here and try to make them look better  when the issue remains.. that it is a BAD idea to work with them! Even when the vote of confidence is disguised as "Ohh I am not here to defend anyone"... yes you are!

Your good review does not undo all the crap they have done to people they scam out of their money!

@Jerryll Noorden If I'm not on the top of page 1 then who is?? My company is "Philly Home Investor" so not sure what you looked up, you said A LOT of things but didn't prove or show me anything??? Just a bunch of yelling....I would never work with someone like you that goes around putting other companies down and doesn't respect the view of someone else. Your just a LOUD voice trying to get business for yourself by talking down on other companies......Just like Momma said....you "ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all"

You said you didn't see my company anywhere???? 

PS. thanks for telling me what I don't know.....lol closed over 60 deals last year, over $1M in fees. 75% from all online leads.  Thanks for your thoughts lol.

Originally posted by @David Bokman :

@Jerryll Noorden If I'm not on the top of page 1 then who is?? My company is "Philly Home Investor" so not sure what you looked up, you said A LOT of things but didn't prove or show me anything??? Just a bunch of yelling....I would never work with someone like you that goes around putting other companies down and doesn't respect the view of someone else. Your just a LOUD voice trying to get business for yourself by talking down on other companies......Just like Momma said....you "ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all"

You said you didn't see my company anywhere???? 

PS. thanks for telling me what I don't know.....lol closed over 60 deals last year, over $1M in fees. 75% from all online leads.  Thanks for your thoughts lol.

The ONLY keyword I care for is

"We Buy Houses In City State". If you knew a bit more about SEO you would understand why! Not going to dive into that now!

Not here to ridicule you man. Not interested in anything you have to say to be honest because this is not about you.

I went hard on your butt because you come here with your good review while you are affiliated with those nerds.

As you have noticed, what you call loud mouth, I tell the truth and I bluntly do so!

Say what you want. I have shown the points I wanted to make I am absolutely not interested how you are going to attempt to convince the world how all you say is justified!

All your competitor has to do to kick you off the first page of Google, is to report your back-link profile to Google. That's IT! We will see what happens then!

ALL SEO companies do black-grey-hat SEO. It is a physical impossibility for an SEO company to provide quality unique backlinks for every single client. To provide amazing unique content for every single client and they have no time to do actual SEO strategies for EVERY single client. IMPOSSIBLE. The only reason you rank high is because your competition has worse SEO then you. That is the ONLY reason!! If you were truly dominating you would have a knowledge graph when people search your relevant keywords.

And...

THAT ios what market domination looks like. But again.. you wouldn't know any better!

And lastly...

the tell tale sign of defeat is when people start measuring up their worth with money.

You made 59 Billion dollars in 1 week.

OMG awesome.

Me.. not so spectacular as you.

I just make paraplegic people walk again using my mind!

How that relates to the scammy business practices of the Nerds.. I have no idea.

@David Bokman

Listen dude. I am sorry you got dragged in the middle of this but you should have stayed out of it. The nerds took a lot of money from 2 of my clients and as you can see from this thread plenty of other people are not happy with them.

I referred my clients to them, and I was in the midst to make a deal with them to send ALL my clients to them for PPC. They COMPLETELY screwed them both over. And I was paying the nerds FOR my clients. So they STILL have MY money!!

They are scammers.  This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. They took money from me,, they took money from Rachel here above, and they need to be exposed.

Again it is not personal opinion that they are bad. This is proven and a fact, from all the people they took money from and refused to return.

Your good review is absolutely damaging because it is not about all the good they may or may not have done. It is about all the bad they have done and people need to know what they will get themselves into hiring them.

Imagine you have a rapist. They didn't rape you but there are plenty of cases where they have raped people.

Now you are telling the public.. "ohh I don't know about you but they didn't rape ME so go hang out in dark alleys with them".

Yeah.. OF COURSE I wil jump on your butt and voice my "loud mouth". If this was about "they didn't rank me #1", and the debate was about how good they are or not.. SURE, absolutely post your review. THAT is relevant.

But this is about how they refuse to give money back where there is ZERO performance, and even ZERO work done.

Your review shouldn't be here because this is misleading people.

Do you get it???

@Jerryll Noorden You don't know me and you don't know anything about me YET you keep telling me what I know and don't know about SEO. You seem to have A LOT of time on your hand defending yourself as the king of SEO lol. Please........

All I did was provide my experience with the company and all you did was try to break it down. Pretty ****** business practice. Trying to break other people down to benefit yourself or showcase your ability is a losing proposition in my book and overall horrible quality as a human being. 

Instead of trashing other companies you should be spending the time building up your own brand.

PS. being on a Podcast doesn't make me "affiliated" with anyone. I can feel the hate coming out of you, maybe during these times you can sit down and look within yourself and ask yourself why this bothers you so much, why does it make you feel like you have to defend or say all these things about them. Maybe you should just concentrate on your own work and clients. Just my 2 cents......

Originally posted by @David Bokman :

@Jerryll Noorden You don't know me and you don't know anything about me YET you keep telling me what I know and don't know about SEO. You seem to have A LOT of time on your hand defending yourself as the king of SEO lol. Please........

All I did was provide my experience with the company and all you did was try to break it down. Pretty ****** business practice. Trying to break other people down to benefit yourself or showcase your ability is a losing proposition in my book and overall horrible quality as a human being. 

Instead of trashing other companies you should be spending the time building up your own brand.

PS. being on a Podcast doesn't make me "affiliated" with anyone. I can feel the hate coming out of you, maybe during these times you can sit down and look within yourself and ask yourself why this bothers you so much, why does it make you feel like you have to defend or say all these things about them. Maybe you should just concentrate on your own work and clients. Just my 2 cents......

 OK noted.

Now we leave the rest of the world to decide for themselves with all the info provided here. Thanks for your input.

@Jerryll Noorden Last time I checked this was an open forum......."I shouldn't stayed out" is BS.......if other people don't chime in and give there experience well than yea......people will only hear negative ones. Telling people that shouldn't voice their experience is horrible to say to someone and you certainly don't have that right.  So no I don't get it........

Originally posted by @Dan Barrett :

Hello everyone in this thread! @Brian Deer @Jerryll Noorden

Apologies for my late reply. I wasn’t tagged, so I didn’t get a notification.

I do not typically directly reply to comments like this - People are allowed to have their opinions without me butting in. But since Jerryll has specifically asked me to reply...

First of all - we DID actually hang up on Jerryll. In fact, I went further, and asked our team to no longer allow him on client calls. (Jerrylll is not our client, but since he referred this client to us and wanted to be involved, he was given this privilege).

Why?

Because he was rude, talked over my employee, and didn’t listen to anything we said.

I will never, for any amount of money, allow my team to take personal abuse.

Secondly, I would note that though Jerryll says above that we "know nothing about SEO" and are "winging it," we are not doing SEO for his clients, but PPC (paid ads). He knows the difference, so perhaps this was a simple mistake.

By “winging it,” Jerryll seems to be referring to the fact that we split-test multiple pages and ads for every client in order to find what performs best. If this is, in fact, what he means, then yes - we do hundreds of multivariate tests a month. This is an industry best-practice and a huge reason for our long term success. I am happy to dig deeper into this if it’s valuable to anyone.

Third, I feel absolutely no need to defend our performance. We've been in business for close to a decade. We have helped HUNDREDS of investors. Our retention rate from our initial program to month to month services is 80% (meaning, 80% of our clients CHOOSE to continue working with us past their initial contract).

Does that mean we always succeed? No. I am incredibly open to EVERYONE about the realities of this type of marketing and the risks involved.

Anyone who tells you they ALWAYS succeed is either inexperienced, or trying to sell you something.

I am 100% willing to anonymize and share this client’s performance data, a complete list of changes made by our team, search terms that generated clicks, screenshots of landing pages run, and a transcript or recording of all client calls, so people on BP can judge for themselves.

I want to respect everyone’s privacy, so I’ll let Jerryll make the final call on that.

Jerryll, if you’d like to have a respectful conversation about client performance and how we can hash it out, my door is always open. I have great respect for what you've accomplished and would love to be able to use your feedback constructively.

Since I am too busy to guarantee I will see any given post on BP, you could always email our client help email and request to talk to me. I’ll shoot you my cell and we can discuss (if you can, try texting me first, so I know you’re not one of the five million robo calls I receive each day!)

I'm not typically on here, so to anyone else who has questions, wants more information, or just wants to say hi, you can reach me at our website (wanted to post my email, but that's not allowed). Feel free to reach out as well if you'd like me to pop back into this thread, but don't think I've seen the notification.

Dan

Dan if you had any proper business integrity you would iss the refund for work you did not perform for us.

I gave them $7500 to get our campaigns started, after months of back and forth the campaigns never started. I asked for my monthly back and for 6 months they tell me "sorry no refund". THEY NEVER PERFORMED SERVICES!!! THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW AND OUR AGREEMENT CLEARLY STATES THAT THEY DONT GET PAID UNTIL THEY RUN CAMPAIGNS.

@DAN BARRETT MAKE THIS RIGHT AND ISSUE MY REFUND PLEASE. I JUST WANT MY MONEY BACK THAT YOU STOLE

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