Just Completed Two BRRRRs

Just Completed Two BRRRRs

Rental Property Investor · Park City, UT · Member since 2016 · 678 posts · 531 votes

I am excited to be closing on two refi's this coming Friday....both of which I applied the BRRRR strategy. These are my 3rd and 4th property, respectively. Definitely some things I learned that I plan to apply on #5. Deal analyses below:

Property #1

  • Purchase Price:$82,000
  • Projected ARV:$105,000
  • Post-Rehab Appraisal:$111,000
  • Estimated Rehab: $11,000
  • Actual Rehab:$14,518
  • Financing:1st close: HML for 90 days at 9.99% and 2 points; 2nd close: 30-yr fixed at 4.375% and 0 points
  • Closing Costs:$6,982 (2 closings)
  • Rent:$1,200
  • Cash Flow: $327 (after maintenance, vacancies, etc.)
  • Cash on Cash Return:11%
  • Timetable:Rehab Complete – Day 15 (started Day 1), Tenant Occupied – Day 60, Refi Complete – Day 83

Property #2

  • Purchase Price:$120,000
  • Projected ARV:$160,000
  • Post-Rehab Appraisal:$162,000
  • Estimated Rehab: $18,000
  • Actual Rehab:$18,034 (amazing I got so close on this one)
  • Financing:1st close: HML for 90 days at 13.99% and 3 points; 2nd close: 30-yr fixed at 4.5% and 0 points
  • Closing Costs:$11,977 (2 closings)
  • Rent:$1,420
  • Cash Flow: $258 (after maintenance, vacancies, etc.)
  • Cash on Cash Return:7% (not great, but at least I have some equity)
  • Timetable:Rehab Complete – Day 25 (started Day 10), Tenant Occupied – Day 44, Refi Complete – Day 50

Key Lessons Learned:

  • Be super diligent on the refi process.  Start early and follow through on every step.
  • Prepare an "appraisal packet" (Thanks @Yinmeng Yu ) - my appraisers were very happy (never hurts to kiss some butt at this stage). I included before/after photos, rehab items and cost breakdown, original appraisal, etc.
  • Contractor I used on Property #1 was pretty good and efficient with his time.  It was a labor only deal.  Good part was I controlled all material costs and got some great deals.  Bad part was that I was heavily involved.  The contractor on Property #2 was more expensive but nearly turnkey.  I'm glad to have two good options for the next property.
  • Did my own listings and tenant screening.  That's a whole blog in itself.  But definite lessons learned.
  • Super excited how quickly we turned around Property #2.  50 days from one loan to another is pretty awesome in my book.  Looking to repeat that part of the process.
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Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @William Collins:

What Tony did do is a great job of buying hard money, and transitioning to traditional financing- locking in a great low interest rate.  This is still a good deal in my opinion.

Yep. All good - except, that's NOT the purpose of the "Refi" part of the BRRRR strategy.

The purpose is: to have a good enough deal in the first place so that a traditional say only 70% appraisal refi Loan still gets you ALL of your initial outlay back - to enable the Repeat. 

It's SUPPOSED to be the Real Estate equivalent of: perpetual motion! Cheers...

See this reply in the discussion

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  • William CollinsPro Member
    Investor · Rocky Hill, CT · Member since 2013 · 373 posts · 299 votes
    10y

    Great refinance work. So what is your cash sunk into each property at the end of the BRRRR process?

  • Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 11 votes
    10y
  • Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2016 · 109 posts · 46 votes
    10y

    Congrats!  That's awesome! Keep going to number 10 Tony

  • Rental Property Investor · Park City, UT · Member since 2016 · 678 posts · 531 votes
    10y

    @THU NGUYEN Thanks! I just read about your whirlwind success over the last few months. Busy summer for you too. I am impressed!

  • Rental Property Investor · Park City, UT · Member since 2016 · 678 posts · 531 votes
    10y

    Appreciate the encouragement 

    @RJ Bates III

  • Rental Property Investor · Park City, UT · Member since 2016 · 678 posts · 531 votes
    10y

    @William Collins My refi on Property #1 is $81,000. So with rehab and closing costs I've got $21k in the deal.

    Property #2 refi is $120,000. After rehab and closing costs I am in at $30k.

    Two reasons why I have more invested than an ideal BRRRR: 1) Closing costs are too high (I need to work on that), 2) My rehab costs are higher than they need to be. While I don't go over the top on my rehabs, I believe spending a little more now means less maintenance. And I feel it sends a message to my tenants that if I care about the property then so should they.

  • New Jersey, NJ · Member since 2015 · 327 posts · 137 votes
    10y
    Great job, is it me or is Texas a great state to use the brrrr strategy? I happen to notice many forums from successful investors using brrrr from Texas lol I have it on my keyword so im always learning and monitoring the brrrr from all the forums .
  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Tony Castronovo, not wishing to burst your bubble, but, you don't YET have BRRRR happening.

    What I mean is: in order to Buy your next one, won't YOU need to come up with another deposit?

    The idea of BRRRR is that your repeat Buys are COMPLETELY funded by Refi deposit cash back!

    NONE of your own money must be left in deals! (Yes, "deals" are hard to find. But keep looking)...

  • William CollinsPro Member
    Investor · Rocky Hill, CT · Member since 2013 · 373 posts · 299 votes
    10y

    What Tony did do is a great job of buying hard money, and transitioning to traditional financing- locking in a great low interest rate.  This is still a good deal in my opinion.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @William Collins:

    What Tony did do is a great job of buying hard money, and transitioning to traditional financing- locking in a great low interest rate.  This is still a good deal in my opinion.

    Yep. All good - except, that's NOT the purpose of the "Refi" part of the BRRRR strategy.

    The purpose is: to have a good enough deal in the first place so that a traditional say only 70% appraisal refi Loan still gets you ALL of your initial outlay back - to enable the Repeat. 

    It's SUPPOSED to be the Real Estate equivalent of: perpetual motion! Cheers...

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I like the idea about the appraisal package. 

    I recently got a line of credit and my problem was that the bank's appraiser only did drive-by appraisals, so, I never had any contact. 

    Would you then give the package to give to the bank, to give to the appraiser?

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

    I like the idea about the appraisal package. 

    I recently got a line of credit and my problem was that the bank's appraiser only did drive-by appraisals, so, I never had any contact. 

    Would you then give the package to give to the bank, to give to the appraiser?

    "Appraisal package"? What's that? Appraisals are arranged/accepted by the Buyer's LENDER!

  • Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2016 · 109 posts · 46 votes
    10y

    @ Brent Coombs, 

    How many deals have you done and have you found it easy to find deals with BRRR in Ohio where you get 100% of your cash back?

    @ @Tony Castronovo, love your idea of preparing package for appraiser.  They always ask me to send them a list of improvements via email.  I just gave them a verbal list of what I did.  Fortunately, they did come back with good numbers that are very comparable with the active and sold properties in the same subdivision.   I do see more deals in Katy lately, I'll make sure to send it your way.  Congrats again. 

    Yes, it has been a very busy 3 months but now it's all done (putting tenants in place, done with re-finance)...Time to buy more.  I want to get 3 more before the year end but as I am getting more experience, I want to have more discount which is even harder to find...:( 

  • Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2016 · 109 posts · 46 votes
    10y

    @ @Tony Castronovo, fyi: I paid a little higher interest (4.5% vs 4.375% for refinance) to get some credit backs to help pay for closing cost.   The credit amounts depend on the loan amount.  Check with your broker on that if you are interested.  PM me if you want to talk to the broker I use.

  • Rental Property Investor · Park City, UT · Member since 2016 · 678 posts · 531 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Yes, I agree that these deals didn't provide the full benefit of the BRRRR strategy. But the approach I took did minimize my out of pocket costs. Let's consider Property#2...an alternative might have been to purchase using a traditional 80% LTV loan. This would have been based on purchase price. $120k X 80% is $96k...leaving a $24k down payment. With only a single closing I would have reduced my overall closing costs. But with the rehab I would have been out of pocket about $48k, instead of the $30k I ended up with. Whether this is classic BRRRR or not, my goal was to minimize my out of pocket cash invested.

    Another way to learn from this is to look at the numbers and back into what I "should have paid" for the property.  On Property#2 my second loan covered the cost of the purchase, but not the closing and rehab costs.

    Consider that I got close to the top of the market at $162k following the rehab. So assuming we can't raise this number....knowing that 75% LTV puts us at ~$122k....and aiming for $0 out of pocket, I would have had to buy this property at $90k. That probably wouldn't have worked, although I may have been able to squeeze out another $10k discount (maybe). As I mentioned before, I realize I need to find a way to bring down my closing costs (HML can be expensive). And perhaps I put too much into the rehab. All things to learn from.

  • Rental Property Investor · Park City, UT · Member since 2016 · 678 posts · 531 votes
    10y

    The appraisal package is given directly to the appraiser.  I have met my appraisers at the properties.  Whenever I give them the package they are like "Wow! You just did half my job."  My philosophy is to be 100% professional and be known for a quality product.  For a couple bucks and a small amount of time I produce a bound and tabbed document that showcases my properties.  Appraisers are human beings and while they crunch numbers for a living, they also provide an "opinion" of value.  Anything I can do to help bolster that opinion will pay dividends.

    PM me if you'd like me to send you an example.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Hurst, TX · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    Great job! I've done a few with similar numbers, mine weren't completely BRRRR's either but it's better than paying 20-25% down plus rehab out of pocket as you stated. Love that strategy, especially with rates in the low 4's. Try to find some private $ through your contacts. Put these examples in a nice packet to present to a potential money guy. I found a few great sources in my network that I pay a straight 10% to and they love it. Once you have a few under your belt with them you can get some better terms as well like higher LTV's and such. That looks like an easy way to save on your next deals. Thanks for posting and best of luck on your future deals!

  • Friendswood, TX · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Good job Tony! Inspiring nonetheless.

  • Investor · Lake Jackson, TX · Member since 2008 · 54 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    Hey Tony. I'm right down the road from you in Lake Jackson. I've employed the BRRRR method a couple times and I am now working on my 6th property. Were you able to refinance these under the 6 month mark? Those are pretty good rates on the refinance. I have been having trouble locating favorable refinance rates on my projects. The one I just finished up is financed through a local bank at 20 years and 6.5%. And it doesn't seem that I could get any lower than that. If I may ask, who did you go for your refinance?

  • Real Estate Agent · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 183 posts · 72 votes
    10y

    @Tony Castronovo Congrats! I would love to know more about how you did your own tenant screenings!

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @THU NGUYEN, none to date. I'm not living in Ohio either. 

    So far, I've been a buy low, sell high type of guy. But, one day...

  • Rental Property Investor · Boone, NC · Member since 2015 · 291 posts · 88 votes
    10y
    Tony Castronovo great job! That is exactly the strategy I plan on applying. I started my own marketing recently in the hope of finding good deals. Would you share how you found those two properties ? Also, could you share who you used for the HML and the long term refinancing ?
  • Real Estate Broker · Somerville, MA · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Brent Coombs Can you explain to me how you were able to refinance into a conventional loan? I'm trying to connect how you were able to borrow money from the HML, then refinance into a 30 year fixed. How did you pay the HML back?

  • Full time real estate investor · Port Orchard, WA · Member since 2013 · 54 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    Hi Tony! Congratulations on your successfull BRRR strategy. I have a question for you. What kind of financing did you get on your second loan closings? Thanks so much!

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 351 posts · 80 votes
    10y

    That's Awesome @Tony Castronovo. Sounds like a fun and productive summer for you. Thank for sharing

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