Tenants complain about vent cleanness

Jeremy Horton

Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

3y

If it's not a direct threat to safety/health and follows the code then it's the tenant's responsibility. I'm not cleaning the air vents unless there is mold created by the property like a water leak of some sort (if it's created by the tenant then that is their fault). We don't know the maintenance he has been performing (if any).

The tenant marked "good" so they approved of the "as-is" property condition. Tenants are responsible to maintain cleanliness of the property.

Also do not give a vacate reason if you decide to go that route. The less information, the better. We have decided not to renew once your lease is up, is all the information he needs.

Richard F.

Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Robin Evans:

A tenant of ourshas just complained today about vent cleanness after he lives in the unit for 10 months. He sent us a pic of the ceiling after bathroom exhaust vent is removed that shows an accumulation of dust and says it is impossible that it got that dusty in the months that they live there. He then further complains all air vents in the house are dirty and sort of implies we need to get all vents cleaned. He mentioned the situation is not healthy to his several-month-old baby.

The previous owner did hire a cleaning company to do a deep cleaning before moving out

We did do a thorough move-in inspection with the tenant before moving in and we signed the move-in inspection sheet. Everyhing was marked "good" by the tenant on the sheet, including exhaust fan.

Previously he also complained about us not weedwacking (which we have been doing) and fall leaves getting into his garage that brought bugs. It goes on and on....

Here are our questions.

1. Do you guys usually clean air vents before renting the unit out? Is it necessary? I googled and EPA does not recommend that the air ducts be cleaned routinely, but only as needed

2. How to respond to the tenant's complaints about air vents?

3. His one-year lease ends end of Jan. 2023. We are thinking about giving 60-day notice and terminating the lease. Do we need to give a reason?

Any input is greatly appreciated ! Thank you very much!

Aloha,

1) No, and No. HOWEVER based on your comments, I believe tenant's concern is actually the ducts as well as the vent grilles. (We do clean the grills, routinely) For central HVAC systems, dryer vents, kitchen and bathroom exhaust vents, they do indeed need duct cleaning periodically based on actual buildup of grease, lint, or other drek.

2) If the exposed grills were actually dirty at move in, or if there was any indication/conversation regarding sensitivity/asthma or similar concerns, and depending on just how dirty the ducts are, I might consider having the ducts cleaned, except for #3.

3) Check local law, but you should be able to simply "non-renew", with no reason. Do not provide a reason, there is no requirement to do so, regardless of how hard they beg you to give them a reason. "Sorry, the decision has been made".

There are far more good tenants than bad, I do not waste time with the bad. I would offer to let them out without penalty for breaking the agreement at any time between now and Jan 31, based on the pettiness of their other noted complaints, and using the "I have a baby" card. You do not mention, but if I were to guess this is an older home, with YEARS of dust and who knows what waiting to shake loose...if hidden dust was a major concern, they should probably be looking at much newer properties.

James Mc Ree

Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 934 votes

3y

The ducts may actually need to be cleaned based on the age of the home and prior care. If you call a duct cleaner for an assessment, for sure they will need to be cleaned! Take a look at what the tenant is reporting and ask, "Would I want to live here like this with my young child?" It's about $400 to clean ducts near me, so not a big deal.

The bigger question is, "Do you want to suffer a vacancy?" Ending the lease at the end of the term or early is easy. Vacancy is often a landlord's biggest expense. Look over what else you might need to do to bring in a new tenant and decide if it is worth it.

John Teachout

Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

While I don't like to let tenants tell me what to do with a property, it may be worthwhile to get the ducts cleaned if they're dirty. You can remove a grill and look into them. It's normal for there to be some dust in them. The concern I would have is that this would be the tip of the iceberg with a continuous litany of issues arising that need attention based on their perception. Next thing you'll have "mold"...

Theresa HarrisPro Member

Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

3y

Ask him when the last time was he changed the filters on the furnace. Then remove the ducts, put a vacuum hose down and call it done.

3 Reply

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Sounds like a PITA. Move him out, then clean the ducts.

Jacob W.

Developer · San Antonio · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 12 votes

3y

I'm a commercial landlord and occasionally have had tenants complain about things that were their responsibility in the lease. I'll admit to early on being a softie and just taking care of it to maintain a good relationship if they're paying their rent each month. That's probably not a good approach and I've become more assertive in sending a screenshot of the portion of the lease showing it's their responsibility.

Sometimes the lease is silent on a particular point of contention in which case I usually have our handyman take care of it. It may cost me a couple hundred dollars to avoid the drama, but I write it down and remember to add it to future leases and renewals and mark it up as a lesson learned.

3 Reply

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Bill B.:

Off the cuff I would respond that he should definately pay for someone to come out and clean it if h’es worried about his health but obviously he’s responsible, has he changed the furnace filter vents every 30-90 days as recommended? I would then end this with if he’s really worried about it and can’t afford to clean them you agree to let him vacate at the end of the month. (6 days) as obviously he wouldn’t want to stay any longer if it’s dangerous.

Depending on the notice requirements of your state and city I would make sure to get my renewal notice ou the next day Reminding the tenant that starting February first they would be on a MTM lease at this new higher rent (Market plus hassle factor $’s) and that starting that date tenants would be responsible for all hvac upkeep (filters and duct cleaning) and all landscaping (snow removal, weed whacking, mowing, etc) or they will be charged a $100/mo maintenance fee.

We do a quarterly inspection for this property and every time we change the filter. Last time it was changed in July. Thank you also for the input on changing the lease clauses. In our lease, it says "At the end of the original term or any renewal, Tenant may renew the Lease under the same terms and conditions, except for the rental rate and the term, which may be negotiated by the parties." With that, can we still amend the lease clauses at renewals?

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Scott Mac:

To me this seems like common sense, vs having to write everything into a lease.

Vents, look at them yourself and asses if they need cleaning. If so pay for it and think him for pointing it out. If not, tell him you think they are acceptable, but thank you for pointing it out (no one wants their baby to be a dust bucket).

Leaves in the garage, tell him it's an act of nature, he will need to remove them himself with a broom or otherwise.

Neighbor complained to you about his noise, too bad so sad for the neighbor, the world does not work that way. If the renter is breaking the noise ordnance the neighbor needs to call local Law Enforcement. Buzz saw ripping wood at 3 am, or etc...

If you dislike the renter interpersonally, well that's another issue.

Good Luck!

Thank you for your input! We will definitely take a look at the upcoming inspection this Sunday and assess it. Unfortunately, we do dislike how the renter perceives and handles things. We are more inclined to terminate the lease at the one-year end.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Jeremy Horton:

If it's not a direct threat to safety/health and follows the code then it's the tenant's responsibility. I'm not cleaning the air vents unless there is mold created by the property like a water leak of some sort (if it's created by the tenant then that is their fault). We don't know the maintenance he has been performing (if any).

The tenant marked "good" so they approved of the "as-is" property condition. Tenants are responsible to maintain cleanliness of the property.

Also do not give a vacate reason if you decide to go that route. The less information, the better. We have decided not to renew once your lease is up, is all the information he needs.

Hi @Jeremy Nothing direct threat to safety/health is mentioned by the tenant.I do agree that tenants are responsbile to mainteain cleanliness of the property which is actaully mentioned in the lease (although it is common sense). Thank you also for the tip on vacate reason!

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Richard F.:

Quote from @Robin Evans:

A tenant of ourshas just complained today about vent cleanness after he lives in the unit for 10 months. He sent us a pic of the ceiling after bathroom exhaust vent is removed that shows an accumulation of dust and says it is impossible that it got that dusty in the months that they live there. He then further complains all air vents in the house are dirty and sort of implies we need to get all vents cleaned. He mentioned the situation is not healthy to his several-month-old baby.

The previous owner did hire a cleaning company to do a deep cleaning before moving out

We did do a thorough move-in inspection with the tenant before moving in and we signed the move-in inspection sheet. Everyhing was marked "good" by the tenant on the sheet, including exhaust fan.

Previously he also complained about us not weedwacking (which we have been doing) and fall leaves getting into his garage that brought bugs. It goes on and on....

Here are our questions.

1. Do you guys usually clean air vents before renting the unit out? Is it necessary? I googled and EPA does not recommend that the air ducts be cleaned routinely, but only as needed

2. How to respond to the tenant's complaints about air vents?

3. His one-year lease ends end of Jan. 2023. We are thinking about giving 60-day notice and terminating the lease. Do we need to give a reason?

Any input is greatly appreciated ! Thank you very much!

Aloha,

1) No, and No. HOWEVER based on your comments, I believe tenant's concern is actually the ducts as well as the vent grilles. (We do clean the grills, routinely) For central HVAC systems, dryer vents, kitchen and bathroom exhaust vents, they do indeed need duct cleaning periodically based on actual buildup of grease, lint, or other drek.

2) If the exposed grills were actually dirty at move in, or if there was any indication/conversation regarding sensitivity/asthma or similar concerns, and depending on just how dirty the ducts are, I might consider having the ducts cleaned, except for #3.

3) Check local law, but you should be able to simply "non-renew", with no reason. Do not provide a reason, there is no requirement to do so, regardless of how hard they beg you to give them a reason. "Sorry, the decision has been made".

There are far more good tenants than bad, I do not waste time with the bad. I would offer to let them out without penalty for breaking the agreement at any time between now and Jan 31, based on the pettiness of their other noted complaints, and using the "I have a baby" card. You do not mention, but if I were to guess this is an older home, with YEARS of dust and who knows what waiting to shake loose...if hidden dust was a major concern, they should probably be looking at much newer properties.

This is a duplex built in 1970 and may have built some kind of dust over the years. There was no conversation regarding sensitivity/asthma or similar concerns when he did the move-in inspection. He was just so eager to move due to the mold issue of the previous place and a new baby on the way. We don't mind changing filters on our cost due to the fact that quite a lot of tenant don't change filters as requested by landlord (found that out on BP forum as well). But we are thinking of writing into lease that tenant is responsible to clean grills since they live on the premises everyday and should be responsbile for the dust they create.
Thank you also on the tip of vacate reason. We will keep that in mind.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @James Mc Ree:

The ducts may actually need to be cleaned based on the age of the home and prior care. If you call a duct cleaner for an assessment, for sure they will need to be cleaned! Take a look at what the tenant is reporting and ask, "Would I want to live here like this with my young child?" It's about $400 to clean ducts near me, so not a big deal.

The bigger question is, "Do you want to suffer a vacancy?" Ending the lease at the end of the term or early is easy. Vacancy is often a landlord's biggest expense. Look over what else you might need to do to bring in a new tenant and decide if it is worth it.

Thank you for your input on the vacancy! It could be an issue to find a new tenant right away in wintertime. A friend of mine who is also a landlord doesn't usually give out rent increase notice in wintertime out of the same concern.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @John Teachout:

While I don't like to let tenants tell me what to do with a property, it may be worthwhile to get the ducts cleaned if they're dirty. You can remove a grill and look into them. It's normal for there to be some dust in them. The concern I would have is that this would be the tip of the iceberg with a continuous litany of issues arising that need attention based on their perception. Next thing you'll have "mold"...

We feel the same especially about how he expresses the issue to us. Mold is actually their complaint about the last rental place they were at. Thank you for your input!

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Ask him when the last time was he changed the filters on the furnace. Then remove the ducts, put a vacuum hose down and call it done.

Thank you for your input! We changed the filter in July and about to change again this Sunday.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Sounds like a PITA. Move him out, then clean the ducts.

Thanks for the directness!

OP

Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes

3y

Quote from @Jacob W.:

I'm a commercial landlord and occasionally have had tenants complain about things that were their responsibility in the lease. I'll admit to early on being a softie and just taking care of it to maintain a good relationship if they're paying their rent each month. That's probably not a good approach and I've become more assertive in sending a screenshot of the portion of the lease showing it's their responsibility.

Sometimes the lease is silent on a particular point of contention in which case I usually have our handyman take care of it. It may cost me a couple hundred dollars to avoid the drama, but I write it down and remember to add it to future leases and renewals and mark it up as a lesson learned.

Thank you for sharing your input with us! We also have a store rental and need to learn how to handle with the commercial tenants.

Bill B.

Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes

3y

@Robin Evans

First note: you can respond to everyone in a single post by just saying…

@user1 thansk good idea

@user22 I agree thanks

@user 67 I’ll do that

etc.

second note: regarding: “ In our lease, it says "At the end of the original term or any renewal, Tenant may renew the Lease under the same terms and conditions, except for the rental rate and the term, which may be negotiated by the parties." With that, can we still amend the lease clauses at renewals?”

I dunno. I do know I would remove that clause in future leases immediately. There’s too many things that could change where suddenly you need the tenant to change how they act (hide trash cans, pay for a new utility, or you forgot something. What if they called and asked you to come over and replace some lightbulbs because your lease didn’t say they had to do it. Can you require them to buy lightbulbs at renewal? I dunno, you have a very bad clause in there.)

I can’t believe you are using a PM with that in a lease. If you are, ask them if they feel comfortable changing terms and if they’ve done it before. If they say no, you need a new PM, a professional and then you have only 3 choices. Live with it. Non-renew them. Or raise their rent enough to cover the hassle until they move out.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

James Mc Ree

Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 934 votes

3y

The terms of the lease can be "changed" by ending the current lease and offering a new one without this clause. It looks like the only terms that can be changed are the rent and term from what the OP wrote.

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Robin Evans:

This guy will continue wearing you down if you don't get rid of him. My response would be something like this:

"Dear Tenant, we do not offer duct cleaning service between each renter. If clean ducts were important, then you should have investigated before agreeing to rent and living in the home for ten months. I'm sorry the rental is not suitable for your family and hope you find something quickly. We expect you to vacate no later than 11:59PM on [DATE] and wish you all the best in your future endeavors."

P.S. bathroom exhaust fans suck dust in; it doesn't blow dust out and wouldn't affect the tenant's health. It literally takes a couple minutes to vacuum it off.

The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews

Website View Page

4 Reply

Teddy Binette

Member since 2021 · 2 posts · 1 vote

3y

This is why the BP forum is so valuable. I have been a landlord for 20+ years and totally missed this.

Until @Nathan Gesner “bathroom exhaust fans suck dust in; it doesn’t blow dust out.”

The duct is generally run to the outside of the home under the eaves. Tell them nice try and that there baby isn’t in any danger from the “dust bunny.”

All of my rentals are in the same neighborhood which is 3 1/2 miles from my house. If I wasn’t sure that it was cleaned before they moved in, I would stop by, pull the vent down, clean it and tell them after this it is on you to keep it clean.

Oscar Martins

Rehabber · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2012 · 29 posts · 7 votes

3y

Tell the tenant that getting a pro in her to clean out the ducts is a great idea but you are going to increase the rent to pay for the cost. Tell them you are going to be signing up for an annual maintenance program. You will see how fast the tenant will forget all about the ductwork, once you tell them there will be an increase in the rent. Sometimes we need to pushback on tenants. Good Luck.

Bud Gaffney

Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

3y

@Robin Evans tenants complain about everything*

Fixed it for ya ;)

Judy Parker

Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes

3y

Let him exercise the "happy clause" of the Lease. If he is not "happy," he is free to vacate on Lease expiration.