Withholding a tenants deposit due to mold?
Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes
Withholding a tenants deposit due to mold?
Most Popular Reply
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
It's common/normal to inspect a house with residents in it.
The mold was revealed during the inspection...it's pervasive on the bathroom floor, which means a lot of water and/or a long time period, and would normally lead to a much deeper investigation for damage in the rest of the house as water easily travels.
The mold should have been addressed with the PSA (so no)...and the appliances can be addressed based on the PSA and lease agreement (so possibly...I would think so). I was just trying to answer your questions above and not addressing lessons to learn.
Purchase and Sale Agreement. Called various things around the country, it's the Contract to Buy and Sell where I'm at. This is the master document that determines the price and terms of the agreement as well as timeline, any contingencies, closing, EM, estoppels, appraisal, which appliances and fixtures will convey with the sale and which won't, rent proration, etc. etc. etc.
Unfortunately, nobody can answer your specific question about whether the tenant can be held responsible for damage in this case definitively because the answer could come down to a judges future decision on the matter, after reviewing all the details of the transaction, the PSA/contract, the lease, and hearing both sides. Technically a tenant can be help responsible for not informing a landlord of water intrusion, but in this case you did have your inspection period during which you had the opportunity to uncover any issues, so that would have been the time to conduct your due diligence, and it sounds like they did let you know about the issue at that time. For these reasons, it may be unlikely that you'd be successful in putting this on the tenant. You could keep their security deposit and find out, but sometimes that isn't worth the effort and can even backfire.
Next time move the furniture/ inspect a little more carefully, and get estoppel agreements signed by the tenants that state which appliances, fixtures and furniture are theirs, verify the terms of the lease and any outside "handshake" agreements with the landlord, any issues with the property, etc. Good luck!
33 Replies
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes3yCan you prove they were negligent and did not say anything? In these situations it is very difficult to blame the tenant as you would need to prove that they should have noticed this mold. IT sounds like during the inspection they noted there were blockages, so that to me would cause the owner to want to inspect the property.
Quote from @Abi Horton:
I just bought a property that had tenements that were older and lived in the house for about 10 years. It came out during the inspection that there was a sewer line blockage and the tenants confirmed there had been “back ups”.
When viewing the property I could visibly see there is mold underneath the linoleum all over the bathroom floor. Some parts black near the toilet. But it’s on a concrete slab so was told I could just change the floor and treat it and be good.
When the tenants moved out they found a number of spots behind furniture that had quite a bit of mold. After getting it inspected there are 6 areas where the drywall will have to be ripped out and replaced including two walls in the bathroom and I’m looking at $5k+ in remediation.
Can I withhold the tenants deposit for this for negligence if not telling the landlord there was back ups/toilet problems?
If you get in front of a judge on this one, especially if you just bought the property, you are going to have a hard time convincing them (and then open yourself up to a suit that you let people live in a house with mold).
7e investments53 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Can you prove they were negligent and did not say anything? In these situations it is very difficult to blame the tenant as you would need to prove that they should have noticed this mold. IT sounds like during the inspection they noted there were blockages, so that to me would cause the owner to want to inspect the property.Quote from @Abi Horton:
I just bought a property that had tenements that were older and lived in the house for about 10 years. It came out during the inspection that there was a sewer line blockage and the tenants confirmed there had been “back ups”.
When viewing the property I could visibly see there is mold underneath the linoleum all over the bathroom floor. Some parts black near the toilet. But it’s on a concrete slab so was told I could just change the floor and treat it and be good.
When the tenants moved out they found a number of spots behind furniture that had quite a bit of mold. After getting it inspected there are 6 areas where the drywall will have to be ripped out and replaced including two walls in the bathroom and I’m looking at $5k+ in remediation.
Can I withhold the tenants deposit for this for negligence if not telling the landlord there was back ups/toilet problems?
If you get in front of a judge on this one, especially if you just bought the property, you are going to have a hard time convincing them (and then open yourself up to a suit that you let people live in a house with mold).The inspection was done when I was buying the property (just a few weeks before closing). The tenants told my realtor that there was backups, I’m not sure the landlord ever knew. He actually said first that there HADNT been any back ups so obviously wasn’t aware. Also in the closing docs there was a doc he signed saying there was no known issues with any pipes, water, electric etc.
The floor is visible in the bathroom so the tenants absolutely knew there was mold, without a doubt. And definitely didn’t tell the landlord (or anyone) until prompted during the inspection (at which point we fixed the sewer line blockage) but had no idea this had clearly been going on for a while. I thought the linoleum in the bathroom was a marble effect… it’s not, it’s all water damage (see pic).
- 3yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Abi Horton You should have considered it in your offer judging by the floor. As for the other sheetrock, you would also have to prove those backups resulted in the damage you are citing and the tenants were responsible for backup. This is on the previous landlord. It looks like it didn't happen overnight. Yes the tenants should have reported but I wouldn't put this on the tenants. You also don't know who is stretching here, the tenants or LL.
- Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3y
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Abi Horton You should have considered it in your offer judging by the floor. As for the other sheetrock, you would also have to prove those backups resulted in the damage you are citing and the tenants were responsible for backup. This is on the previous landlord. It looks like it didn't happen overnight. Yes the tenants should have reported but I wouldn't put this on the tenants. You also don't know who is stretching here, the tenants or LL.
Well as my first property purchase I am learning some hard and expensive lessons. I did ask about the floor with a contractor and my realtor but they didn’t seem bothered and said since it’s on a concrete slab we’d just remove the floor when we redid the bathroom, treat it and put new flooring in. No one thought about the damage the moisture in the place would have done. The landlord didn’t know about the back ups. He was an 88 year old man living in FL and the tenants were there for 10 years (also older couple) and didn’t say anything. I was under the impression a tenant is obligated to tell the landlord about such issues like back ups and leaks to enable them to fix them before they get to this point. Clearly it was going on a while by the damage, that’s why I am wondering about negligence. The tenants also took the appliances but I can’t prove they didn’t belong to the house, also left a huge heap of garbage on the sidewalk in front of the house that I had to call to have cleared away but I don’t think I can charge for those things.
- 3yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Abi Horton sounds like some expensive lessons. The sale listing for the property should have said what appliances were included so if they were listed as included the place to get credit for them would have been from the owner when you didn't see them at walk through. My guess is if they were more than 7 years old they were fully depreciated and it would be hard to charge the tenant for them now but I haven't had that experience. You could search the forums to see what people have to say about missing appliances. If you had to pay for additional trash not sure why you can't charge for that but you have to return everything in the timeline required by your state to the tenant and you probably should have photos of trash for it to be worth deducting and that is not your biggest cost. Be glad they are gone and you can do a good rehab. If the sewer was just cleared but not fully repaired I would get a scope (camera Recording) of it before you move on. You don't want to put your money into rehab and have another backup.
I am guessing after 10 years the LL doesn't have a move in checklist? Yes tenants are obligated to tell you but you need to inspect properties. Do this regularly even if they have been good for 5 years because sometimes people change over time. Their health worsens, they get careless or complacent. I had great tenants I left alone because they were sick, they did more damage in one year then they did in the entire previous five.
- 3yAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Honestly, it sounds like whomever did or is going to do your remediation is taking you for a ride. I only saw the bath area but there is hardly anything there. Having that said, you can keep the deposit and they would have to go to court to get it back. You would have to follow the timelines for notification that your state requires for laying claim to the deposit. Then they would have to prove in court that this wasn't their fault and you would have to prove it was.
As a property manager, we would probably pay less then $1000 to get it fixed AND we would give the tenant their money back. If they told you that there had a couple of backups would this have changed the outcome? Probably not...
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3yI’m not sure how you can say you would get this fixed for less than $1000 when you haven’t seen the extent of the damage.
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:
Honestly, it sounds like whomever did or is going to do your remediation is taking you for a ride. I only saw the bath area but there is hardly anything there. Having that said, you can keep the deposit and they would have to go to court to get it back. You would have to follow the timelines for notification that your state requires for laying claim to the deposit. Then they would have to prove in court that this wasn't their fault and you would have to prove it was.
As a property manager, we would probably pay less than $1000 to get it fixed AND we would give the tenant their money back. If they told you that there had a couple of backups would this have changed the outcome? Probably not...
There is 4 other areas between the bedrooms, kitchen and dining room throughout the house that have visible black mold (see pic) that have to be cut out of drywall and replaced. If the tenant had told the landlord when they had the back ups start of course this could have been treated and avoided!
I know the tenant can appeal if I keep the deposit and go through court, I was just looking for some advice on if this extent of damage/mold is classed as negligent since I think it absolutely could have been avoided if they had told someone about it.
- Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3yI have had a sewer scope with video and all is fixed now, but thank you for the heads up. I absolutely agree checking the property regularly is a good idea, I had a tip that if you change the AC filters for the tenant then it’s a good excuse to get in the house and see the condition.
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Abi Horton sounds like some expensive lessons. The sale listing for the property should have said what appliances were included so if they were listed as included the place to get credit for them would have been from the owner when you didn't see them at walk through. My guess is if they were more than 7 years old they were fully depreciated and it would be hard to charge the tenant for them now but I haven't had that experience. You could search the forums to see what people have to say about missing appliances. If you had to pay for additional trash not sure why you can't charge for that but you have to return everything in the timeline required by your state to the tenant and you probably should have photos of trash for it to be worth deducting and that is not your biggest cost. Be glad they are gone and you can do a good rehab. If the sewer was just cleared but not fully repaired I would get a scope (camera Recording) of it before you move on. You don't want to put your money into rehab and have another backup.
I am guessing after 10 years the LL doesn't have a move in checklist? Yes tenants are obligated to tell you but you need to inspect properties. Do this regularly even if they have been good for 5 years because sometimes people change over time. Their health worsens, they get careless or complacent. I had great tenants I left alone because they were sick, they did more damage in one year than they did in the entire previous five.
Yes there was no move in check list there was barely a lease agreement. And the garbage removal didn’t cost me any money he just put it on me to call the city and book it in to be collected. The guys told me they should really take it because it was literal garbage but I sweet talked them and they took it.
so my original question is, if a tenant is obligated to let the LL know about things like back ups and signs of mold, can I withhold their deposit for the repairs since they didn’t let anyone know? - 3yMatthew Irish-JonesBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Abi Horton I would have serious concerns about what the wood looks like behind the drywall if I were you. Is there mold visible on the floor joists when you are in the basement? That’s a lot of mold to be accumulating on drywall in a living room. Looks like
You have a fairly serious moisture problem that could be more than just drywall remediation.
As for the security deposit, the answer is in the lease you inherited. If you had to pay money to get the trash removed, do extra cleaning, and other things beyond normal wear and tear you can probably keep the deposit. It’s lease and state law specific.
You should go back through the inspection report and look at the plumbing. Do you have cast iron drain lines? If so, you may have multiple leaks behind walls. You need to solve the water issue first or you are going to dump 5K into fixing drywall and spend the 5K again in 3 months.
Back up in the basement is most likely due to your main line which should also be checked. Did you get a scope done at inspection?
I would be taking a hard look at all plumbing in the entire house before I spent a penny on drywall repair.
Irish Jones Realty4.947 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3y
Quote from @Matthew Irish-Jones:
@Abi Horton I would have serious concerns about what the wood looks like behind the drywall if I were you. Is there mold visible on the floor joists when you are in the basement? That’s a lot of mold to be accumulating on drywall in a living room. Looks like
You have a fairly serious moisture problem that could be more than just drywall remediation.
As for the security deposit, the answer is in the lease you inherited. If you had to pay money to get the trash removed, do extra cleaning, and other things beyond normal wear and tear you can probably keep the deposit. It’s lease and state law specific.
You should go back through the inspection report and look at the plumbing. Do you have cast iron drain lines? If so, you may have multiple leaks behind walls. You need to solve the water issue first or you are going to dump 5K into fixing drywall and spend the 5K again in 3 months.
Back up in the basement is most likely due to your main line which should also be checked. Did you get a scope done at inspection?
I would be taking a hard look at all plumbing in the entire house before I spent a penny on drywall repair.
Thank you, but its on a concrete slab. the carpet has been pulled and no mold or damage to the strips underneath. There was a lot fo big furniture in the house and no central air so the ventilation wasn't good and possible that temperature control could have caused moisture too, but my guess is the bathroom moisture. I have also have humidity testers in the house and its not abnormally high now. I have had 4 mold companies come to quote so i think we are pretty good on what the cause is, just curious about the situation with the tenants and the deposit.
As mentioned i didnt have to pay for the garbage clearing as i managed to get the city to take it, even though they said they shouldn't have, and the cleaning i did myself as i was moving into the property so didnt want to wait for a company to arrive.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes3y
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement (which will determine if you should withhold the deposit for them).
- Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3y
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes3y
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
It's common/normal to inspect a house with residents in it.
The mold was revealed during the inspection...it's pervasive on the bathroom floor, which means a lot of water and/or a long time period, and would normally lead to a much deeper investigation for damage in the rest of the house as water easily travels. It may be fortunate that it's not worse behind the walls and under the floors throughout and only 5k total. - Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3yAs I mentioned, I am learning a lot of lessons with this first purchase. But my question is, can a tenant be held responsible for the damage as they didn’t tell the landlord of the issue which has ended up being much more damaging and expensive than it could have been if they had let someone know.
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
It's common/normal to inspect a house with residents in it.
The mold was revealed during the inspection...it's pervasive on the bathroom floor, which means a lot of water and/or a long time period, and would normally lead to a much deeper investigation for damage in the rest of the house as water easily travels. - Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes3y
Quote from @Abi Horton:
As I mentioned, I am learning a lot of lessons with this first purchase. But my question is, can a tenant be held responsible for the damage as they didn’t tell the landlord of the issue which has ended up being much more damaging and expensive than it could have been if they had let someone know.Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
It's common/normal to inspect a house with residents in it.
The mold was revealed during the inspection...it's pervasive on the bathroom floor, which means a lot of water and/or a long time period, and would normally lead to a much deeper investigation for damage in the rest of the house as water easily travels.The mold should have been addressed with the PSA (so no)...and the appliances can be addressed based on the PSA and lease agreement (so possibly...I would think so). I was just trying to answer your questions above and not addressing lessons to learn.
- Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3yWhat does PSA stand for?
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
As I mentioned, I am learning a lot of lessons with this first purchase. But my question is, can a tenant be held responsible for the damage as they didn’t tell the landlord of the issue which has ended up being much more damaging and expensive than it could have been if they had let someone know.Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
It's common/normal to inspect a house with residents in it.
The mold was revealed during the inspection...it's pervasive on the bathroom floor, which means a lot of water and/or a long time period, and would normally lead to a much deeper investigation for damage in the rest of the house as water easily travels.The mold should have been addressed with the PSA (so no)...and the appliances can be addressed based on the PSA and lease agreement (so possibly...I would think so). I was just trying to answer your questions above and not addressing lessons to learn.
Quote from @Abi Horton:
What does PSA stand for?Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
As I mentioned, I am learning a lot of lessons with this first purchase. But my question is, can a tenant be held responsible for the damage as they didn’t tell the landlord of the issue which has ended up being much more damaging and expensive than it could have been if they had let someone know.Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Mike Dymski:
Mold - the sales price should have been adjusted or the items fixed prior to closing.
Appliances - walk the property shortly before closing and don't close if it's missing things or messed up. Your purchase contract should say what is included/excluded...and so should the lease agreement.
The house closed with the tenants in it, I served them notice the next day. So I wasn’t able to do a walkthrough until the tenants moved out which was a month later.
The mold was discovered when the tenants moved out and moved their big pieces of furniture.
It's common/normal to inspect a house with residents in it.
The mold was revealed during the inspection...it's pervasive on the bathroom floor, which means a lot of water and/or a long time period, and would normally lead to a much deeper investigation for damage in the rest of the house as water easily travels.The mold should have been addressed with the PSA (so no)...and the appliances can be addressed based on the PSA and lease agreement (so possibly...I would think so). I was just trying to answer your questions above and not addressing lessons to learn.
Purchase and Sale Agreement. Called various things around the country, it's the Contract to Buy and Sell where I'm at. This is the master document that determines the price and terms of the agreement as well as timeline, any contingencies, closing, EM, estoppels, appraisal, which appliances and fixtures will convey with the sale and which won't, rent proration, etc. etc. etc.
Unfortunately, nobody can answer your specific question about whether the tenant can be held responsible for damage in this case definitively because the answer could come down to a judges future decision on the matter, after reviewing all the details of the transaction, the PSA/contract, the lease, and hearing both sides. Technically a tenant can be help responsible for not informing a landlord of water intrusion, but in this case you did have your inspection period during which you had the opportunity to uncover any issues, so that would have been the time to conduct your due diligence, and it sounds like they did let you know about the issue at that time. For these reasons, it may be unlikely that you'd be successful in putting this on the tenant. You could keep their security deposit and find out, but sometimes that isn't worth the effort and can even backfire.
Next time move the furniture/ inspect a little more carefully, and get estoppel agreements signed by the tenants that state which appliances, fixtures and furniture are theirs, verify the terms of the lease and any outside "handshake" agreements with the landlord, any issues with the property, etc. Good luck!
- Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
@Abi Horton, you bought the property in the condition it was in. So, if this happened AFTER you bought it then you have a case.
If it happened BEFORE you bought the property, then the PRIOR owner could probably sue the tenant because they theoretically got less from he sale of the home because of that damage.
- 3yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Where did the tenants move to? How astute did they seem to be?
Bottom line: what do you think the chances are the will legally challenge your keeping of their security deposit?
Logical Property Management4.9455 Reviews My non-legal recommendation, cut your losses and move on. As you stated, you've just learned an "expensive" lesson that I suspect could have been much worse. Even if you have to do some mold remediation, drywall, framing, etc., you still have the rest of the house. It's on you as the buyer to know what you're buying, how to remedy issues, what it's going to cost, etc. It's easy to blame the tenants in this scenario, but a lot of renters genuinely don't understand how to care for a home. There could have also been a case of negligent landlord where they quit even asking because it never got done. Nonetheless, best of luck to you.
- 3yMelanie ThomasBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · San Antonio · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 490 votes
I would advise considering holding the tenants partially responsible for the damage. It would be beneficial to review the lease agreement for any clauses pertaining to the obligation to report damage. If you were to end up in court before a judge, proving that the tenant neglected to
report the damage could be challenging. It may be helpful to communicate with the owner and inquire about the history of work orders related to mold issues. Additionally, it would be advantageous if the tenants could provide any documentation supporting their claim of reporting the problem. There are numerous questions to address in this situation. If you would like to discuss this further, I am available for an offline conversation. Good luck, happy investing!
RentWerx Property Management4.73308 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 29 posts · 13 votes3y
Quote from @Melanie Thomas:
I would advise considering holding the tenants partially responsible for the damage. It would be beneficial to review the lease agreement for any clauses pertaining to the obligation to report damage. If you were to end up in court before a judge, proving that the tenant neglected to
report the damage could be challenging. It may be helpful to communicate with the owner and inquire about the history of work orders related to mold issues. Additionally, it would be advantageous if the tenants could provide any documentation supporting their claim of reporting the problem. There are numerous questions to address in this situation. If you would like to discuss this further, I am available for an offline conversation. Good luck, happy investing!Thank you. I have spoken to the ex-maintenance man and he confirmed they never told anyone about the leak in the bathroom (confirmed it wasn't from the backups but a leaky toilet seal that they never reported). Per the lease "TENANT agrees to use care in the use of the premises, its appliances and all other parts of the LANDLORD'S property and give notice to the LANDLORD of the need of repairs, and to pay for all repairs to the premises, its contents and all other parts of the LANDLORD'S property which are damaged by any lack of care on the part of the TENANT, TENANT'S family or TENANT'S visitors."
He also confirmed the appliances belonged to the tenant, but the seller signed the contract which said the appliances would convey... maintenance guy said "well, seller hasnt been to the property in 30 years" but he signed the contract... surely thats on him?
"But my question is, can a tenant be held responsible for the damage as they didn’t tell the landlord of the issue which has ended up being much more damaging and expensive than it could have been if they had let someone know"
The answer is YES.... but you have to be able to prove that their lack of notification resulted in the damage..... and the damage was readily visible and could be observed by the tenant- Not always easy to do.
BUT... in this case, these issues should have been found PRIOR to closing and worked out BEFORE closing....lower sale price etc. Having not done that, you basically bought it "as is" and are likely stuck with the bill.
And mold remediation is a scam 80% of the time. The majority is non- toxic and can easily be removed by normal contractors without going all HAZMAT crazy. Not to say some mold remediation isnt legit, but when you call a mold remediation company, what do you think 99% of them are going to say?
- 3yMatthew Irish-JonesBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Matthew Irish-Jones:
@Abi Horton I would have serious concerns about what the wood looks like behind the drywall if I were you. Is there mold visible on the floor joists when you are in the basement? That’s a lot of mold to be accumulating on drywall in a living room. Looks like
You have a fairly serious moisture problem that could be more than just drywall remediation.
As for the security deposit, the answer is in the lease you inherited. If you had to pay money to get the trash removed, do extra cleaning, and other things beyond normal wear and tear you can probably keep the deposit. It’s lease and state law specific.
You should go back through the inspection report and look at the plumbing. Do you have cast iron drain lines? If so, you may have multiple leaks behind walls. You need to solve the water issue first or you are going to dump 5K into fixing drywall and spend the 5K again in 3 months.
Back up in the basement is most likely due to your main line which should also be checked. Did you get a scope done at inspection?
I would be taking a hard look at all plumbing in the entire house before I spent a penny on drywall repair.
Thank you, but its on a concrete slab. the carpet has been pulled and no mold or damage to the strips underneath. There was a lot fo big furniture in the house and no central air so the ventilation wasn't good and possible that temperature control could have caused moisture too, but my guess is the bathroom moisture. I have also have humidity testers in the house and its not abnormally high now. I have had 4 mold companies come to quote so i think we are pretty good on what the cause is, just curious about the situation with the tenants and the deposit.
As mentioned i didnt have to pay for the garbage clearing as i managed to get the city to take it, even though they said they shouldn't have, and the cleaning i did myself as i was moving into the property so didnt want to wait for a company to arrive.
Its irrelevant who did the cleaning, there is still a market rate for the expense.
Irish Jones Realty4.947 Reviews - Daphne, AL · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes3y
Quote from @Abi Horton:
Quote from @Melanie Thomas:
I would advise considering holding the tenants partially responsible for the damage. It would be beneficial to review the lease agreement for any clauses pertaining to the obligation to report damage. If you were to end up in court before a judge, proving that the tenant neglected to
report the damage could be challenging. It may be helpful to communicate with the owner and inquire about the history of work orders related to mold issues. Additionally, it would be advantageous if the tenants could provide any documentation supporting their claim of reporting the problem. There are numerous questions to address in this situation. If you would like to discuss this further, I am available for an offline conversation. Good luck, happy investing!Thank you. I have spoken to the ex-maintenance man and he confirmed they never told anyone about the leak in the bathroom (confirmed it wasn't from the backups but a leaky toilet seal that they never reported). Per the lease "TENANT agrees to use care in the use of the premises, its appliances and all other parts of the LANDLORD'S property and give notice to the LANDLORD of the need of repairs, and to pay for all repairs to the premises, its contents and all other parts of the LANDLORD'S property which are damaged by any lack of care on the part of the TENANT, TENANT'S family or TENANT'S visitors."
He also confirmed the appliances belonged to the tenant, but the seller signed the contract which said the appliances would convey... maintenance guy said "well, seller hasnt been to the property in 30 years" but he signed the contract... surely thats on him?
Based on what you are saying, it looks like you can withhold the tenants deposit (or a portion thereof),yay.... but I don't know if it is worth it based on the time and trouble you may have to deal with justifying it to a court.
I know you know this, but in the future deduct that issue and its repair from the asking price. It sounds like you didn't, but should have gotten an official inspection done, at least when you saw the mold that you saw, and it would have outlined other potential issues, like the leak, that you could have used to lower the asking price.
The people were there 10 years, based on what I have seen, people tend to get used to certain things that are uncomfortable over time...and they may have been used to the leak or the mold or whatever....or maybe they didn't notice because it was a gradual occurrence.
As the end buyer...In my opinion, you are basically looking for the former tenant to cover your negligence.
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