The answer to those "wholesaling is illegal, unethical, immoral" statements...

137 Replies

@Aaron Mazzrillo   NICEE! But if that's all 106 million will get you, I'm assuming in New York, I'd take my money elsewhere! Not that I have that kind on money anyways lol.

I suspect that if you could see the details of this as opposed to most wholesale deals is that they were prepared to purchase the property if needed. Not that I have an issue with wholesalers, as long as they are honest with the seller about their position.

I found this to be very motivational. There was another guy in NY who made 2 mil flipping an apartment complex. This just reinforces the ideal that you are only limited by what you believe. 

I have money to purchase properties now but that doesn't mean I wont back out of a deal. Even though I haven't had to because of the market here I would if it came down to it. I am sure the guys that flipped this house didn't have the money and more than likely it could have been private money or financed. I know that there are alot of wholesalers who tie up properties and never close because they can't find end buyers. To me that's lack of training and understanding the numbers. Starting in this business broke with nothing has taught me to use creative methods of purchasing property and that not all problems need to be solved by wiping out the ole check book. 

I just want to know what website he got his $106mm POF letter from.

I wonder if he stepped up like a real investor and purchased the property himself or had a bunch of weasel clauses that would allow him to screw over the seller if he couldn't find a buyer?

Originally posted by @Jeremy T. :

I wonder if he stepped up like a real investor and purchased the property himself or had a bunch of weasel clauses that would allow him to screw over the seller if he couldn't find a buyer?

 I would think that the seller was sophisticated enough to hire weasley representation that could spot weasel clauses from 3 miles away.

Originally posted by @Jon Klaus :
Originally posted by @Jeremy T.:

I wonder if he stepped up like a real investor and purchased the property himself or had a bunch of weasel clauses that would allow him to screw over the seller if he couldn't find a buyer?

 I would think that the seller was sophisticated enough to hire weasley representation that could spot weasel clauses from 3 miles away.

 And that's one big difference right there.  Not seeking out unsophisticated, unrepresented sellers.

"But on September 30, Schreiber inked an agreement to assign his contract to Miller’s group for $106 million, which will net him and his investors $7 million in gross profit, the insiders said."

He needed investors to come up with his $100 EMD :)?

Or, just maybe, they were actually BUYING the property until presented with an offer they had to take.

::taptaptap:: 

Not sure if this sarcasm button working properly...should I email Josh?

Originally posted by @Richard C. :

"But on September 30, Schreiber inked an agreement to assign his contract to Miller’s group for $106 million, which will net him and his investors $7 million in gross profit, the insiders said."

He needed investors to come up with his $100 EMD :)?

Or, just maybe, they were actually BUYING the property until presented with an offer they had to take.

  Sounds as if he was fund raising the $100mil or had private money. My question is does anyone know know any private money lenders that I could borrow $100 mil from to wholesale deals like this?

Seems like Aaron is making some implication that experienced accredited investors with legal, engineering, accounting and development backrooms have some relationship to what wholesalers try to do on this site or in residential areas. The sophistication of such transactions are beyond the scope this site, including anyone implying that guy was or is just a wholesaler. All you need to do to be an astronaut is learn how to fly this powered parachute!  :)   

Gee, thanks for chiming in @Bill Gulley  We can always count on you for some whitty, yet often sarcastic, pretentious BS response. Tired of watching the grass grow out there in Missouri so thought you might be a Debbie Downer on BP again? Does it make you feel better to piss in other's Cheerios?

Look up Erin Wicomb on Facebook. Here's a kid (probably mid 20's now) who came to the US from South Africa. No experience, education, or money. Bought a car off Craigslist and sold it for a profit. Figured if he could do it with a car he could do it with real estate. Started wholesaling houses and eventually worked his way up to $1M+ houses doing fix and flips. Last one I heard about was a $5M deal. Then he bought an entire city block in the city of San Diego from the defunct redevelopment office. Most recently, he wholesaled a contract on a building in NY with air rights for a $10M assignment fee. Oh, and he did all of this in the last 6 years or so.

He's not accredited, has no legal education, never went to engineering school, doesn't know accounting, and has done little to no development. Good thing he didn't know you or he'd be sitting in some college class somewhere worrying about passing his engineering or accounting class test.

If find you to be a lot like that stale uncle always walking around saying "You can't do that! That idea is stupid." You're the exact type of person every one on here tries to avoid. So keep your lame *** comments to yourself. :)

(It's OK I threw all that negativity at you because I used your method and added the smiley face, right? Like a diet coke and a double cheese burger - one cancels out the other.)

Whoa there @Aaron Mazzrillo !!! The article is inspiring indeed. 

However, don't treat @Bill G. like that! Because of his continuous warnings about knowing our state laws about RE and potential pitfalls in general, I've kept my hiny from being burned. I've learned a lot from Bill and I've learned a lot from you. Both of you are colourful in you own ways and both of you have given me good laughs and inspiration.

I don't mind the knocking of heads, but the personal insults are not called for. I hope when the dust settles, there will be an apology and a handshake and Aaron, even if you cuss me out too, I still appreciate you. 


It's OK @Belinda D.   

I used the smiley face at the end of my post and therefore, everything I said should be taken lightly with a hint of laughter.

Originally posted by @Jon Klaus :
Originally posted by @Jeremy T.:

I wonder if he stepped up like a real investor and purchased the property himself or had a bunch of weasel clauses that would allow him to screw over the seller if he couldn't find a buyer?

 I would think that the seller was sophisticated enough to hire weasley representation that could spot weasel clauses from 3 miles away.

 For sure it was weasel on weasel when it came to legal teams.....for both sides.

Aaron, you speak as if you have some dog in the fight on wholesaling, you selling or mentoring or coaching the stuff, you have to have an agenda. Absolutely, there are always exceptions and success stories, how many fail? Good for the lucky one, the talented one, the one who has social skills and works hard, I applaud the guy. I doubt he learned from speaking to snake oil gurus. I haven't seen much from you in the forums other than hype and personal attacks with implications of my comments being BS. Anytime you want to get down to discussions that require a greater insight into anything in RE, anything at all, don't hesitate to mention me, I'll be happy to go in to greater depth in any subject you might like to go into. So far, all I'm seeing is the cheerleading section, you want to play ball, get on the field. :)) 

Account Closed 

Please do not use double cheeseburgers as a bad thing in your analogies.  I had one tonight and it was pretty awesome. 

Originally posted by @Wayne Woodson:

I found this to be very motivational. There was another guy in NY who made 2 mil flipping an apartment complex. This just reinforces the ideal that you are only limited by what you believe. 

I have money to purchase properties now but that doesn't mean I wont back out of a deal. Even though I haven't had to because of the market here I would if it came down to it. I am sure the guys that flipped this house didn't have the money and more than likely it could have been private money or financed. I know that there are alot of wholesalers who tie up properties and never close because they can't find end buyers. To me that's lack of training and understanding the numbers. Starting in this business broke with nothing has taught me to use creative methods of purchasing property and that not all problems need to be solved by wiping out the ole check book. 

For sure that $99M contract was prepared by professionals and had this and that and the other clause to protect the buyer.   It may have had buy out clauses for cancellation.  There are tons of ways to do a deal like that. For all we know it may have been an option to buy with a 12 month term and minimal risk to the "buyer".

I found it motivational as well. To me the deal was about seeing value and contracting to purchase at a price with value.  And likely knowing there was at least one other interested buyer out there.   That's knowing your market.

Originally posted by @Bill G.:

Aaron, you speak as if you have some dog in the fight on wholesaling, you selling or mentoring or coaching the stuff, you have to have an agenda. Absolutely, there are always exceptions and success stories, how many fail? Good for the lucky one, the talented one, the one who has social skills and works hard, I applaud the guy. I doubt he learned from speaking to snake oil gurus. I haven't seen much from you in the forums other than hype and personal attacks with implications of my comments being BS. Anytime you want to get down to discussions that require a greater insight into anything in RE, anything at all, don't hesitate to mention me, I'll be happy to go in to greater depth in any subject you might like to go into. So far, all I'm seeing is the cheerleading section, you want to play ball, get on the field. :)) 

Agenda? Why do I have to have an agenda when I find an interesting article and post a link to it on BP with a catchy headline? Oh, and thanks for pointing out that some people succeed, but most fail. Everybody who falls down needs a good kick in the teeth to get them going. Or, maybe you climbed your way to the top of your ladder by stepping on lots of hands?

I seriously want to know what is the purpose of your demotivational post on this thread? I put up a link to an article about a great real estate transaction some random guy did for nothing more than inspiration for others and you chime in with "The sophistication of such transactions are beyond the scope this site, including anyone implying that guy was or is just a wholesaler." And then you go on to say in another typical Bill post that I must be offering some coaching program.

Really? 

What the hell are you even talking about? Are you implying that complex deals don't get done on this website or though relationships created here? I guess we're all just a bunch of idiots. None of us on this site can put together a deal like this because we're not smart enough to understand the complexities involved or be associated with those who might. Nobody here has any vision. You must be here for entertainment purposes. Enjoy slumming it for old time's sake do ya?

This guy analyzed a property and made an offer on it which got accepted. He then assigned his contract to another developer for a fee. How is that not EXACTLY what wholesalers on this site do every day? Maybe you're scared by the decimal place? Just because you couldn't doesn't mean nobody can.

Guys, there's no problem debating the legitimacy or validity of wholesaling, that's been going on here for a long time and I'm sure it will continue. However, we do ask that you refrain from personal attacks.  Personal infighting destroys more value than it creates. Y'all have been huge assets to BiggerPockets, let's keep going in that direction.

Originally posted by Account Closed:

Aaron, you speak as if you have some dog in the fight on wholesaling, you selling or mentoring or coaching the stuff, you have to have an agenda. Absolutely, there are always exceptions and success stories, how many fail? Good for the lucky one, the talented one, the one who has social skills and works hard, I applaud the guy. I doubt he learned from speaking to snake oil gurus. I haven't seen much from you in the forums other than hype and personal attacks with implications of my comments being BS. Anytime you want to get down to discussions that require a greater insight into anything in RE, anything at all, don't hesitate to mention me, I'll be happy to go in to greater depth in any subject you might like to go into. So far, all I'm seeing is the cheerleading section, you want to play ball, get on the field. :)) 

Agenda? Why do I have to have an agenda when I find an interesting article and post a link to it on BP with a catchy headline? Oh, and thanks for pointing out that some people succeed, but most fail. Everybody who falls down needs a good kick in the teeth to get them going. Or, maybe you climbed your way to the top of your ladder by stepping on lots of hands?

I seriously want to know what is the purpose of your demotivational post on this thread? I put up a link to an article about a great real estate transaction some random guy did for nothing more than inspiration for others and you chime in with "The sophistication of such transactions are beyond the scope this site, including anyone implying that guy was or is just a wholesaler." And then you go on to say in another typical Bill post that I must be offering some coaching program.

Really? 

What the hell are you even talking about? Are you implying that complex deals don't get done on this website or though relationships created here? I guess we're all just a bunch of idiots. None of us on this site can put together a deal like this because we're not smart enough to understand the complexities involved or be associated with those who might. Nobody here has any vision. You must be here for entertainment purposes. Enjoy slumming it for old time's sake do ya?

This guy analyzed a property and made an offer on it which got accepted. He then assigned his contract to another developer for a fee. How is that not EXACTLY what wholesalers on this site do every day? Maybe you're scared by the decimal place? Just because you couldn't doesn't mean nobody can.

While @Aaron Mazzrillo  may have gotten a bit off track in one of his earlier posts towards @Bill G., the message still stands, you can successfully and LEGALLY wholesale. Sure this guy was more sophisticated than the average wholesaler but the concept is the same. I also have to say, I've reached out to Aaron a few times with specific questions via private messages and he's never once tried to sell me anything. I'm actually pretty sure he doesn't have a "snake oil" program (or even a coaching program) to sell and if he does, I've never heard of it. That either makes him a great investor that's willing to help others without reciprocation or compensation...or the worst "snake oil" salesman ever. 

I do appreciate the opposing points of view and I think Bill generally offers great advice AND is legitimately trying to keep people out of trouble, it does however need to be tempered and dispensed with care. 

[Steps down off soap box]

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