Direct Mail - is it still working?

147 Replies

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced


No it doesn't work.

Mind you I agree with Mr  @Mark Durham , I just think we have a different definition of the word "works".

Mark is right as in.. yes you CAN get a deal. But does is "work" as a lead generation platform? No.

A true lead generation platform is reliable, scalable, predictable, and IDEALLY works on autopilot even when you stop working on it.

DMM is based on "calculated" (I am using this term extremely lightly here) luck. Think about this. If it worked, why are the "real" companies not using it? Did you ever receive a creepy yellowletter with red ink from Nike? How about Apple? Hmm how about ELon Musk? Bill Gates? No?

Well there you have it. If it DID work, believe me these guys would be all over it. They have plenty of funds to hire an army of OompaLoompas to do the work for them.

No DMM does not work. The only reason it is still alive is because you have a bunch of people that offer DMM and list services and they keep telling others it works. And everyone here is pretty much sheep. Don;t believe me?

Well ask anyone that does DMM a single question,

WHY did you start doing DMM?

Think about it. there is not ONE valid reason why anyone would ever start DMM if they had a functioning brain capable of thinking on their own.

The open rate is 2%.  2 PERCENT.

No not just "2"!! It is ZERO comma ZERO 2! (0.02)

That is redonkculous!

And on top of that you buy an expensive list, and you need to do skip tracing and resend a bunch of mailers out. WHO in the friggin right mind would  voluntarily choose DMM? It is beyond me how crazy people are. SERIOUSLY!

if they only knew how I get my leads I would be burned alive as a pretty witch for doing unnatural lead generation practices!

Dude if you really want to make it in this business you need to start thinking on your own, look at the numbers and draw conclusions based on DATA. Not on what the majority of investors are doing/saying!

Hi Jerryll Noorden, 

Thank you for your response. This is my first time doing DM and I got mixed response from other investors, some agrees with you and some said it still work. You brought up a few good points. Thanks for your input! 


I've personally never tried direct mail. But I've heard time and time and time again over the past year and a half that's it's become far less effective in today's competitive market. A lot of times you have to send out a mail piece to the same person 5+ times before they actually call you back (from what I've heard). And that can really eat into your budget. Personally I don't find it worth it.

If you're looking for a way to get inbound leads, I personally love RMV. Though you have to be sure you're doing it legally, and it's truly ringless and not a robo call. If you DM me, I'm happy to explain my systems more in depth.

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat :

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

Originally posted by @Siobhan Kelly-Roberts :

I've personally never tried direct mail. But I've heard time and time and time again over the past year and a half that's it's become far less effective in today's competitive market. A lot of times you have to send out a mail piece to the same person 5+ times before they actually call you back (from what I've heard). And that can really eat into your budget. Personally I don't find it worth it.

If you're looking for a way to get inbound leads, I personally love RMV. Though you have to be sure you're doing it legally, and it's truly ringless and not a robo call. If you DM me, I'm happy to explain my systems more in depth.

Hello, thanks for the offer. I sent  you a friend request. 

 

It probably depends on your market. I see you're in Houston, and I'm sure that area is pretty flooded. What's working for other investors in your market? I'd get involved with your local meetup. 3.9k letters is probably taking a lot of time and money. It may be worth it to spend the $50 a month on Investor Carrot or something similar. I'm not 100% sure how they work, but from what I can see on their website, they seem to take over the marketing campaign for you.

@Siobhan Kelly-Roberts what is RMV?

I'm also researching lead strategies at the moment, so I hope you'll share what you find! 

Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

I use Listsource for my list and have our own company for direct mail. Response rate varies but it's somewhere between 1-3% all throughout my 6 touch campaign. I also get "do not call me" and "f off" type of call so we remove them from our list. Also, the deal rate varies.  Sometimes it takes me 10k mail pieces to land a deal and sometimes more.

 

Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :

Hi Jerryll Noorden, 

Thank you for your response. This is my first time doing DM and I got mixed response from other investors, some agrees with you and some said it still work. You brought up a few good points. Thanks for your input! 


 Yes and that is why I say you need to think.

Does any of the people that say "yes" to DMM give you proof? Screenshots? Some friggin CONCRETE DATA that DMM is OK?

NO

NONE

ZERO

Not a STINKING person has data that supports it.

Here is MY data.

Every lead you see here is free, ans super motivated. I didn't life a finger. I don't spend a single dollar. I dont buy a stinking list I don't set up 15 phone numbers to see which mailer or which color ink performed better (are you serious?) Do you REALLY think that because the envelope was pink and not yellow you got a lead? If that is what you think (generic you, not YOU you), you really need to turn on that brain of yours. If you got a lead from a yellow postcard is because you luckily sent it to a MOTIVATED seller, not because your stinkin letter was yellow. Seriously people come on!!

I don't do skip tracing and I don't have to explain myself to anyone why or how I found them and I don't have to deal with "GET ME OFF YOUR GAADAMN LIST" from disgruntled mailer receivers.

So.. tell me again why why you would even CONSIDER DMM?

Didn't think so.

*drops mic*

Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley :

It probably depends on your market. I see you're in Houston, and I'm sure that area is pretty flooded. What's working for other investors in your market? I'd get involved with your local meetup. 3.9k letters is probably taking a lot of time and money. It may be worth it to spend the $50 a month on Investor Carrot or something similar. I'm not 100% sure how they work, but from what I can see on their website, they seem to take over the marketing campaign for you.

@Siobhan Kelly-Roberts what is RMV?

I'm also researching lead strategies at the moment, so I hope you'll share what you find! 

My bad, Nicole! I meant RVM, which stands for ringless voicemail.

 

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :

Every lead you see here is free, ans super motivated. I didn't life a finger. I don't spend a single dollar. 

But I assume you had to put some kind of money into setting up this system initially?

 

Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:


 I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. 

 I rest my case!

Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

Every lead you see here is free, ans super motivated. I didn't life a finger. I don't spend a single dollar. 

But I assume you had to put some kind of money into setting up this system initially?

 

If you go to your friends party and you bring a cake. You made the cake yourself.

And your friends taste the cake and they say: "OMG this is delicious, where did you buy it? How much did the cake cost".

You would say, nope cost me nothing I made it myself.

Or are you going to tell them.. well... I used 4 eggs... and with $2.95 per dozen of eggs,  4 eggs would be $0.98 dollars.

Then the milk.. let me see I used 3 cups of milk. A gallon costs 2 dollars so 3 cups would be... $0.42 cents.

etc. etc. so the cake cost me 3 dollars and 73 cents.

Your friends would look at you and never talk to you again!

So yeah, EVERYTHING costs money right? 

So if you really wanted to get technical, I spend 150 a month for my investor carrot hosting my site. I spent 50 dollars a month on food to stay alive so I can work on my site.

So about 200 dollars a month is what my leads cost me.

Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat :
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

I use Listsource for my list and have our own company for direct mail. Response rate varies but it's somewhere between 1-3% all throughout my 6 touch campaign. I also get "do not call me" and "f off" type of call so we remove them from our list. Also, the deal rate varies.  Sometimes it takes me 10k mail pieces to land a deal and sometimes more.

 

 Dude, seriously.

I Totally respect you are hustling and trying to get leads and making money on BP. But I do not respect the way you are doing this.

You keep insinuating that you are an expert on DMM and lead generation using these BS methods (like DMM) and people SEE you as a leader as DMM lead gen.

So sure do what you need to do. BUT what I do not respect (AT ALL) is if you are lying or misleading people into taking the DMM route when it is obvious you have no concrete experience buying houses. 

By all means tell people that you are good at DMM and show proof of this if you want them to believe you. BUT do not lie to people!

I don't know if you are lying or not, but personally I believe you are, and I HOPE you can prove me wrong.

You say you use list-source for your own leads.

Where do you buy your houses? Are you even an investor? You are on upwork working as a VA.

The only reason I did a search on you was BECAUSE all you say about DMM is so utterly and completely wrong,  I couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend you actually are truly doing DMM. That is the ONLY reason I looked you up.

So now I gave you a link on BP so I hope you get a lot of upwork work from members here. Just dude, do not say half truths. A half truth is a full lie!

Again, I HOPE I am wrong, and you are legitimately an honest dude trying to help others with DMM...

I am still telling you, DMM SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!

This dude, new investor (the OP) asked a genuine question about DMM. Obviously someone convinced him to do DMM and as you can see he is getting NO results.  Now here you are telling the poor guy that DMM works (IT FRIGGIN DOES NOT) and he is spending his money because people like you with NO ACTUAL experience buying houses (I am assuming this.. not claiming you do not) are telling him it does.

You would be a COMPLETE friggin prick, leading him down the wrong path  hoping you can make a buck off of him!

Originally posted by @Siobhan Kelly-Roberts :

I've personally never tried direct mail. But I've heard time and time and time again over the past year and a half that's it's become far less effective in today's competitive market. A lot of times you have to send out a mail piece to the same person 5+ times before they actually call you back (from what I've heard). And that can really eat into your budget. Personally I don't find it worth it.

If you're looking for a way to get inbound leads, I personally love RMV. Though you have to be sure you're doing it legally, and it's truly ringless and not a robo call. If you DM me, I'm happy to explain my systems more in depth.

 The reason so may people HATE our kind (investors) is because of these "sneaky" ways to get leads.

Methods like these absolutely have no regards for someones privacy. Honestly Ringless voicemails is worse than DMM.

I don't know about you all but I would be so pissed off someone just autoblasted me with with voicemails not giving a crap how annoying it may be or not.

Now imagine 300 investors using ringless voice mails. 300 messages to shift through OMFG. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

If you asked me, not a good start to build trust and rapport to make deals. You can tell yourself and justify it to yourself how ever you want.

The end of the day, you  don't care how many people you have disrespected as long as you get a deal out of it.

If you all think I am the master of lead generation BECAUSE I rank #1, you have so much to learn,

I get leads because people respect us and love us. We get invited to dinners after we walk their house. We take off our shoes before we enter people's houses. We do the EXACT opposite of what all these sneaky ways of lead generation have you do.

We respect our leads, not trick them. Dude trust me. Do it the right way and you will be a LOT more successful!

But that's just me!

direct mail can work, but at this point it's the yellow pages of marketing for real estate deals. 

pay attention to who is telling you what, if they offer any type of service that would benefit from this information... which is often the case on BP, take it with a grain of salt. 

This is EXACTLY what I mean.

You all are steering people in the wrong direction. You all need to stop posting crap!

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

I use Listsource for my list and have our own company for direct mail. Response rate varies but it's somewhere between 1-3% all throughout my 6 touch campaign. I also get "do not call me" and "f off" type of call so we remove them from our list. Also, the deal rate varies.  Sometimes it takes me 10k mail pieces to land a deal and sometimes more.

 

 Dude, seriously.

I Totally respect you are hustling and trying to get leads and making money on BP. But I do not respect the way you are doing this.

You keep insinuating that you are an expert on DMM and lead generation using these BS methods (like DMM) and people SEE you as a leader as DMM lead gen.

So sure do what you need to do. BUT what I do not respect (AT ALL) is if you are lying or misleading people into taking the DMM route when it is obvious you have no concrete experience buying houses. 

By all means tell people that you are good at DMM and show proof of this if you want them to believe you. BUT do not lie to people!

I don't know if you are lying or not, but personally I believe you are, and I HOPE you can prove me wrong.

You say you use list-source for your own leads.

Where do you buy your houses? Are you even an investor? You are on upwork working as a VA.

The only reason I did a search on you was BECAUSE all you say about DMM is so utterly and completely wrong,  I couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend you actually are truly doing DMM. That is the ONLY reason I looked you up.

So now I gave you a link on BP so I hope you get a lot of upwork work from members here. Just dude, do not say half truths. A half truth is a full lie!

Again, I HOPE I am wrong, and you are legitimately an honest dude trying to help others with DMM...

I am still telling you, DMM SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!

This dude, new investor (the OP) asked a genuine question about DMM. Obviously someone convinced him to do DMM and as you can see he is getting NO results.  Now here you are telling the poor guy that DMM works (IT FRIGGIN DOES NOT) and he is spending his money because people like you with NO ACTUAL experience buying houses (I am assuming this.. not claiming you do not) are telling him it does.

You would be a COMPLETE friggin prick, leading him down the wrong path  hoping you can make a buck off of him!

Ehsan works for me and we buy houses in NW Indiana. He also helps me with other stuff. I have been investing since 2010 and for us Direct Mail is THE MOST consistent lead generation source. It's expensive but it's consistent. The highest ROI for us is PPC but in our market we can't generate enough leads with PPC to do the number of deals we want to do.

Just because SEO is working great for us doesn't mean other marketing channels don't work for other investors in other markets. 

Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

I use Listsource for my list and have our own company for direct mail. Response rate varies but it's somewhere between 1-3% all throughout my 6 touch campaign. I also get "do not call me" and "f off" type of call so we remove them from our list. Also, the deal rate varies.  Sometimes it takes me 10k mail pieces to land a deal and sometimes more.

 

 Dude, seriously.

I Totally respect you are hustling and trying to get leads and making money on BP. But I do not respect the way you are doing this.

You keep insinuating that you are an expert on DMM and lead generation using these BS methods (like DMM) and people SEE you as a leader as DMM lead gen.

So sure do what you need to do. BUT what I do not respect (AT ALL) is if you are lying or misleading people into taking the DMM route when it is obvious you have no concrete experience buying houses. 

By all means tell people that you are good at DMM and show proof of this if you want them to believe you. BUT do not lie to people!

I don't know if you are lying or not, but personally I believe you are, and I HOPE you can prove me wrong.

You say you use list-source for your own leads.

Where do you buy your houses? Are you even an investor? You are on upwork working as a VA.

The only reason I did a search on you was BECAUSE all you say about DMM is so utterly and completely wrong,  I couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend you actually are truly doing DMM. That is the ONLY reason I looked you up.

So now I gave you a link on BP so I hope you get a lot of upwork work from members here. Just dude, do not say half truths. A half truth is a full lie!

Again, I HOPE I am wrong, and you are legitimately an honest dude trying to help others with DMM...

I am still telling you, DMM SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!

This dude, new investor (the OP) asked a genuine question about DMM. Obviously someone convinced him to do DMM and as you can see he is getting NO results.  Now here you are telling the poor guy that DMM works (IT FRIGGIN DOES NOT) and he is spending his money because people like you with NO ACTUAL experience buying houses (I am assuming this.. not claiming you do not) are telling him it does.

You would be a COMPLETE friggin prick, leading him down the wrong path  hoping you can make a buck off of him!

Ehsan works for me and we buy houses in NW Indiana. He also helps me with other stuff. I have been investing since 2010 and for us Direct Mail is THE MOST consistent lead generation source. It's expensive but it's consistent. The highest ROI for us is PPC but in our market we can't generate enough leads with PPC to do the number of deals we want to do.

Just because SEO is working great for us doesn't mean other marketing channels don't work for other investors in other markets. 

I know he does.

I am not telling you or anyone to use SEO have I?

I said DMM stinks. Show data dude. You have a company right? SHOW DATA.

What I am saying is he needs to stop telling people or acting as if he has direct experience with sending mailers because he doesn't. He is in Bangladesh. Can you honestly tell me that what he/your company are saying isn't misleading?

If he hasn't send mailers with HIS number on it, if he has not been talking to mailer recipients,  if he has never had to deal with angry callers demanding to go F yourself, and remove them frem the list he shouldn't be convincing anyone to do DMM. 

And you telling me "hey DMM works" tells me and the world NOTHING.

Show data and we can have an awesome conversation on lead generation and figure out ways to improve it.

I am NOT selling my SEO services nor am I promoting them.  I am telling everyone they can do it all FOR FREE. There is no need to hire you, me he she to get leads.

They CAN if they want, but this is not a battle over BP leads. This is me calling you  out on shady practices. 

Now.. PLEASE show me DATA!

How much money have you spend last month on DMM, how many leads did you get, how many of these leads turned into a deal (an ACTUAL DEAL where you made money), meaning they were motivated and how many people called you back yelling at you?

If you want to get clients here on BP, you need to show credibility. Just telling people it works, obviously means nothing as you have a business that relies on it. 

On the other hand I tell people do NOT spend money on SEO, you can do it yourself.

Still.. why are you hiring someone from Bangadesh to tell everyone  "he" buys lists and sends mailers out when he absolutely does not?

This is SO typical. Companies like this are just like Ad words nerds. Big hype, no credibility. Their credibility was "hey I have 600 clients I know what I am doing" yet they can't answer a single of my SEO questions.



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BE CAREFUL with marketing companies. Most SUCK!!

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :

So if you really wanted to get technical, I spend 150 a month for my investor carrot hosting my site. I spent 50 dollars a month on food to stay alive so I can work on my site.

So about 200 dollars a month is what my leads cost me.

I'm sending this to my CPA. I tried claiming food on my taxes. If I'm dead, I can't run my business. It's a valid deduction.

Thanks for sharing that! I know you and I have spoken (indirectly, via forum) a bit about my own marketing campaign. It looks like Investor Carrot costs about the same as, if not less than, a DMM campaign.