Direct Mail - is it still working?

147 Replies

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

So if you really wanted to get technical, I spend 150 a month for my investor carrot hosting my site. I spent 50 dollars a month on food to stay alive so I can work on my site.

So about 200 dollars a month is what my leads cost me.

I'm sending this to my CPA. I tried claiming food on my taxes. If I'm dead, I can't run my business. It's a valid deduction.

Thanks for sharing that! I know you and I have spoken (indirectly, via forum) a bit about my own marketing campaign. It looks like Investor Carrot costs about the same as, if not less than, a DMM campaign. 

 

 ha ha try the food deduction and let me know if it works.

Then

Investor carrot costs the same as DMM?

How do you figure that?

I pay 150 a month on Carrot, and when I was doing DMM I was spending $3000 for that month...

After reading this thread I for some reason now have the urge to go watch Billy Madison 🤣:

"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Billy Madison: "Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine."

Originally posted by @CJ M. :

After reading this thread I for some reason now have the urge to go watch Billy Madison 🤣:

"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Billy Madison: "Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine."

 For you to find value in this you need to have a bit of understanding  when it comes to marketing and you would find it valuable if YOU were about to fork over 2K on DMM without fully understanding what you were getting yourself into. 

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Siobhan Kelly-Roberts:

I've personally never tried direct mail. But I've heard time and time and time again over the past year and a half that's it's become far less effective in today's competitive market. A lot of times you have to send out a mail piece to the same person 5+ times before they actually call you back (from what I've heard). And that can really eat into your budget. Personally I don't find it worth it.

If you're looking for a way to get inbound leads, I personally love RMV. Though you have to be sure you're doing it legally, and it's truly ringless and not a robo call. If you DM me, I'm happy to explain my systems more in depth.

 The reason so may people HATE our kind (investors) is because of these "sneaky" ways to get leads.

Methods like these absolutely have no regards for someones privacy. Honestly Ringless voicemails is worse than DMM.

I don't know about you all but I would be so pissed off someone just autoblasted me with with voicemails not giving a crap how annoying it may be or not.

Now imagine 300 investors using ringless voice mails. 300 messages to shift through OMFG. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

If you asked me, not a good start to build trust and rapport to make deals. You can tell yourself and justify it to yourself how ever you want.

The end of the day, you  don't care how many people you have disrespected as long as you get a deal out of it.

If you all think I am the master of lead generation BECAUSE I rank #1, you have so much to learn,

I get leads because people respect us and love us. We get invited to dinners after we walk their house. We take off our shoes before we enter people's houses. We do the EXACT opposite of what all these sneaky ways of lead generation have you do.

We respect our leads, not trick them. Dude trust me. Do it the right way and you will be a LOT more successful!

But that's just me!

 I understand your perspective, man, I really do. Know that I make sure to scrub for the DNC list before sending out voicemails, and if someone who isn't on the DNC is unhappy that they received a voicemail from me, I politely apologize for disturbing them and immediately add them to my own personal DNC list.

I'm not actively trying to disrespect anyone, and I don't JUST care about deals. But as someone with only a couple of hours free per day to work on wholesaling, and a somewhat limited budget, RVM makes the most sense for me right now. I don't have hours and hours per day to cold call, and I don't want to blast out a ton of DMM to people (it's expensive and not eco friendly), so yeah I've done a couple of RVM campaigns. Long term I'd like to move to generating more organic traffic.

My goal is to move to PPC, but that's when I'm actively generating more capital and it makes sense for my budget.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

@Jerryll Noorden

I've worked in direct marketing for 18 years, but that's not my point and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. Just trying to add a little humor to a seemingly tense topic. Wasn't directed at you or anyone specifically.

Originally posted by @Siobhan Kelly-Roberts :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Siobhan Kelly-Roberts:

I've personally never tried direct mail. But I've heard time and time and time again over the past year and a half that's it's become far less effective in today's competitive market. A lot of times you have to send out a mail piece to the same person 5+ times before they actually call you back (from what I've heard). And that can really eat into your budget. Personally I don't find it worth it.

If you're looking for a way to get inbound leads, I personally love RMV. Though you have to be sure you're doing it legally, and it's truly ringless and not a robo call. If you DM me, I'm happy to explain my systems more in depth.

 The reason so may people HATE our kind (investors) is because of these "sneaky" ways to get leads.

Methods like these absolutely have no regards for someones privacy. Honestly Ringless voicemails is worse than DMM.

I don't know about you all but I would be so pissed off someone just autoblasted me with with voicemails not giving a crap how annoying it may be or not.

Now imagine 300 investors using ringless voice mails. 300 messages to shift through OMFG. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

If you asked me, not a good start to build trust and rapport to make deals. You can tell yourself and justify it to yourself how ever you want.

The end of the day, you  don't care how many people you have disrespected as long as you get a deal out of it.

If you all think I am the master of lead generation BECAUSE I rank #1, you have so much to learn,

I get leads because people respect us and love us. We get invited to dinners after we walk their house. We take off our shoes before we enter people's houses. We do the EXACT opposite of what all these sneaky ways of lead generation have you do.

We respect our leads, not trick them. Dude trust me. Do it the right way and you will be a LOT more successful!

But that's just me!

 I understand your perspective, man, I really do. Know that I make sure to scrub for the DNC list before sending out voicemails, and if someone who isn't on the DNC is unhappy that they received a voicemail from me, I politely apologize for disturbing them and immediately add them to my own personal DNC list.

I'm not actively trying to disrespect anyone, and I don't JUST care about deals. But as someone with only a couple of hours free per day to work on wholesaling, and a somewhat limited budget, RVM makes the most sense for me right now. I don't have hours and hours per day to cold call, and I don't want to blast out a ton of DMM to people (it's expensive and not eco friendly), so yeah I've done a couple of RVM campaigns. Long term I'd like to move to generating more organic traffic.

My goal is to move to PPC, but that's when I'm actively generating more capital and it makes sense for my budget.

 Fair enough! In your defense...

PPC is expensive, and RVM is cheap.

It is easy for me to talk because I get free leads. I totally get it that other people don't have a choice in the matter.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

I use Listsource for my list and have our own company for direct mail. Response rate varies but it's somewhere between 1-3% all throughout my 6 touch campaign. I also get "do not call me" and "f off" type of call so we remove them from our list. Also, the deal rate varies.  Sometimes it takes me 10k mail pieces to land a deal and sometimes more.

 

 Dude, seriously.

I Totally respect you are hustling and trying to get leads and making money on BP. But I do not respect the way you are doing this.

You keep insinuating that you are an expert on DMM and lead generation using these BS methods (like DMM) and people SEE you as a leader as DMM lead gen.

So sure do what you need to do. BUT what I do not respect (AT ALL) is if you are lying or misleading people into taking the DMM route when it is obvious you have no concrete experience buying houses. 

By all means tell people that you are good at DMM and show proof of this if you want them to believe you. BUT do not lie to people!

I don't know if you are lying or not, but personally I believe you are, and I HOPE you can prove me wrong.

You say you use list-source for your own leads.

Where do you buy your houses? Are you even an investor? You are on upwork working as a VA.

The only reason I did a search on you was BECAUSE all you say about DMM is so utterly and completely wrong,  I couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend you actually are truly doing DMM. That is the ONLY reason I looked you up.

So now I gave you a link on BP so I hope you get a lot of upwork work from members here. Just dude, do not say half truths. A half truth is a full lie!

Again, I HOPE I am wrong, and you are legitimately an honest dude trying to help others with DMM...

I am still telling you, DMM SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!

This dude, new investor (the OP) asked a genuine question about DMM. Obviously someone convinced him to do DMM and as you can see he is getting NO results.  Now here you are telling the poor guy that DMM works (IT FRIGGIN DOES NOT) and he is spending his money because people like you with NO ACTUAL experience buying houses (I am assuming this.. not claiming you do not) are telling him it does.

You would be a COMPLETE friggin prick, leading him down the wrong path  hoping you can make a buck off of him!

Ehsan works for me and we buy houses in NW Indiana. He also helps me with other stuff. I have been investing since 2010 and for us Direct Mail is THE MOST consistent lead generation source. It's expensive but it's consistent. The highest ROI for us is PPC but in our market we can't generate enough leads with PPC to do the number of deals we want to do.

Just because SEO is working great for us doesn't mean other marketing channels don't work for other investors in other markets. 

I know he does.

I am not telling you or anyone to use SEO have I?

I said DMM stinks. Show data dude. You have a company right? SHOW DATA.

What I am saying is he needs to stop telling people or acting as if he has direct experience with sending mailers because he doesn't. He is in Bangladesh. Can you honestly tell me that what he/your company are saying isn't misleading?

If he hasn't send mailers with HIS number on it, if he has not been talking to mailer recipients,  if he has never had to deal with angry callers demanding to go F yourself, and remove them frem the list he shouldn't be convincing anyone to do DMM. 

And you telling me "hey DMM works" tells me and the world NOTHING.

Show data and we can have an awesome conversation on lead generation and figure out ways to improve it.

I am NOT selling my SEO services nor am I promoting them.  I am telling everyone they can do it all FOR FREE. There is no need to hire you, me he she to get leads.

They CAN if they want, but this is not a battle over BP leads. This is me calling you  out on shady practices. 

Now.. PLEASE show me DATA!

How much money have you spend last month on DMM, how many leads did you get, how many of these leads turned into a deal (an ACTUAL DEAL where you made money), meaning they were motivated and how many people called you back yelling at you?

If you want to get clients here on BP, you need to show credibility. Just telling people it works, obviously means nothing as you have a business that relies on it. 

On the other hand I tell people do NOT spend money on SEO, you can do it yourself.

Still.. why are you hiring someone from Bangadesh to tell everyone  "he" buys lists and sends mailers out when he absolutely does not?

This is SO typical. Companies like this are just like Ad words nerds. Big hype, no credibility. Their credibility was "hey I have 600 clients I know what I am doing" yet they can't answer a single of my SEO questions.



https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/87/topics/641524-should-i-sign-up-for-adwords-nerds

BE CAREFUL with marketing companies. Most SUCK!!

I don't send Direct Mail with my number on it. I don't talk to any seller leads but we close several deals a month from Direct Mail so does that mean I don't have DMM experience? No one is trying to fight over BP leads here, you seem bitter about Direct Mail when you couldn't make it work in your market. 

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Ehsan Rishat:

@Duy Nguyen may I ask where you got your list from? Anyways, it's working for me so the answer to your question is 'yes' it works and our company has been closing deals every month only from direct mail. I suggest that you complete your 6 touch campaign and you will start getting more calls with each mailing so don't worry about that.

 Thank you for responding. I got my list from Yellow Letters and they are doing my DM as well. I am committed to 6 months campaign. I do get about 18 calls back after 4 days the mail landed. However they are all " do not call me" , "f off" type of call. LOL. I am sending about 3900 mail pieces per month. What is  your return rate and deal rate? Did you go through someone to do it?

I use Listsource for my list and have our own company for direct mail. Response rate varies but it's somewhere between 1-3% all throughout my 6 touch campaign. I also get "do not call me" and "f off" type of call so we remove them from our list. Also, the deal rate varies.  Sometimes it takes me 10k mail pieces to land a deal and sometimes more.

 

 Dude, seriously.

I Totally respect you are hustling and trying to get leads and making money on BP. But I do not respect the way you are doing this.

You keep insinuating that you are an expert on DMM and lead generation using these BS methods (like DMM) and people SEE you as a leader as DMM lead gen.

So sure do what you need to do. BUT what I do not respect (AT ALL) is if you are lying or misleading people into taking the DMM route when it is obvious you have no concrete experience buying houses. 

By all means tell people that you are good at DMM and show proof of this if you want them to believe you. BUT do not lie to people!

I don't know if you are lying or not, but personally I believe you are, and I HOPE you can prove me wrong.

You say you use list-source for your own leads.

Where do you buy your houses? Are you even an investor? You are on upwork working as a VA.

The only reason I did a search on you was BECAUSE all you say about DMM is so utterly and completely wrong,  I couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend you actually are truly doing DMM. That is the ONLY reason I looked you up.

So now I gave you a link on BP so I hope you get a lot of upwork work from members here. Just dude, do not say half truths. A half truth is a full lie!

Again, I HOPE I am wrong, and you are legitimately an honest dude trying to help others with DMM...

I am still telling you, DMM SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!

This dude, new investor (the OP) asked a genuine question about DMM. Obviously someone convinced him to do DMM and as you can see he is getting NO results.  Now here you are telling the poor guy that DMM works (IT FRIGGIN DOES NOT) and he is spending his money because people like you with NO ACTUAL experience buying houses (I am assuming this.. not claiming you do not) are telling him it does.

You would be a COMPLETE friggin prick, leading him down the wrong path  hoping you can make a buck off of him!

Ehsan works for me and we buy houses in NW Indiana. He also helps me with other stuff. I have been investing since 2010 and for us Direct Mail is THE MOST consistent lead generation source. It's expensive but it's consistent. The highest ROI for us is PPC but in our market we can't generate enough leads with PPC to do the number of deals we want to do.

Just because SEO is working great for us doesn't mean other marketing channels don't work for other investors in other markets. 

I know he does.

I am not telling you or anyone to use SEO have I?

I said DMM stinks. Show data dude. You have a company right? SHOW DATA.

What I am saying is he needs to stop telling people or acting as if he has direct experience with sending mailers because he doesn't. He is in Bangladesh. Can you honestly tell me that what he/your company are saying isn't misleading?

If he hasn't send mailers with HIS number on it, if he has not been talking to mailer recipients,  if he has never had to deal with angry callers demanding to go F yourself, and remove them frem the list he shouldn't be convincing anyone to do DMM. 

And you telling me "hey DMM works" tells me and the world NOTHING.

Show data and we can have an awesome conversation on lead generation and figure out ways to improve it.

I am NOT selling my SEO services nor am I promoting them.  I am telling everyone they can do it all FOR FREE. There is no need to hire you, me he she to get leads.

They CAN if they want, but this is not a battle over BP leads. This is me calling you  out on shady practices. 

Now.. PLEASE show me DATA!

How much money have you spend last month on DMM, how many leads did you get, how many of these leads turned into a deal (an ACTUAL DEAL where you made money), meaning they were motivated and how many people called you back yelling at you?

If you want to get clients here on BP, you need to show credibility. Just telling people it works, obviously means nothing as you have a business that relies on it. 

On the other hand I tell people do NOT spend money on SEO, you can do it yourself.

Still.. why are you hiring someone from Bangadesh to tell everyone  "he" buys lists and sends mailers out when he absolutely does not?

This is SO typical. Companies like this are just like Ad words nerds. Big hype, no credibility. Their credibility was "hey I have 600 clients I know what I am doing" yet they can't answer a single of my SEO questions.



https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/87/topics/641524-should-i-sign-up-for-adwords-nerds

BE CAREFUL with marketing companies. Most SUCK!!

I don't send Direct Mail with my number on it. I don't talk to any seller leads but we close several deals a month from Direct Mail so does that mean I don't have DMM experience? No one is trying to fight over BP leads here, you seem bitter about Direct Mail when you couldn't make it work in your market. 

 You are right bud.

I am VERY sour about DMM.

When I started I made the same mistake as many BP members. I LISTENED TO OTHERS!!

Against my better judgement I decided to do DMM, and it nearly destroyed me.

I repeat IT NEARLY GOT ME DESTROYED!

I hate it, because it doesn't work (for me). And your data validates it.

Look I spend 3K on DMM and as you can see the cost per deal is 5K.. so in fact I was just LUCKY to get the deal. According to your numebrs I should NOT have gotten a deal...

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

You LOVE making assumptions.

 "A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit."

I am sorry that your average profit is ONLY $2k, but certainly NOT for us. Our average profit is $20k+, 10 times what your average profit is.

"I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable." Not true. VAST majority of big investors I know from my mastermind tell me that DMM is the most consistent for them.

As for Direct Mail not working for you, did you try pulling the right list? Did you make a rookie mistake of sending to 30%+ equity of absentee just one mailer and then stopped doing any more marketing? And now you have this incorrect opinion about DMM? Did you make the mistake of using the same phone number for all different campaigns? I will be more than happy to jump on a call with you and help you with your DMM campaign.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

It seems like you have really low wholesale profit of $2k per deal so I will be more than happy to give you some tips on increasing your average wholesale profit. Let me know if interested.

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

Sigh... so stubborn,

People simply refuse to think on their own.

Here is why sending multiple mailers to the same group is an illusion.

1st Time Sending:

Imagine you send out 1000 mailers and 100 people see your mailers. Out of the 100 that see them lets say 40 people are interested.

Out of the 40 people 10 respond to you immediately and 30 are on the fence.

2nd time sending:

Out of the 30 people that were on the fence, 5 respond to you the second time and you pissed 10 people off. These are gone. They hate you now and call you to take them off your list. So you have 15 people left over that didn't call you for more info and they didn't leave you, but they are obviously a bit annoyed.

3rd time sending a mailer:

The more often you send a mailer the faster the recipient will now be pissed as you are annoying them. So out of the 15 people left you get 1 call and 14 bounce.

So in total you have gotten 10 immediate leads, and then you got 6 additional leads resending the mailers. 

So you got 16 leads in total

So YOU say.. SEE I TOLD you it works... because you have NO CLUE how many leads you LOST sending the repeat mailers. HOW could you know?

Now consider this

sending 1000 mailers.

100 people see the mailers and you get 40 people interested and 10 respond immediately.

Since you didn't harass them the other 30 interested simply needed more time and eventually 15 of them will naturally get back in touch with you at a later point. (How many of you received a call from a mailer you send out months and months , even years ago, and they called you up? (I am raising my hand). So yes they WILL call you back as long as you do not piss them off, be pushy or harass them.

So for that round of one time mailing I made 25 leads.

SO I already beat you here.

BUT the story doesn't end here ohh no.

Instead of using the money to send mailers to the exact same poeple I am now sending a brand new bunch of people the mailers.

And again, out of the 100 people that see the mailers.. bla bla bla, same story and again I get 25 leads.

That is 50 leads,

And with the third mailer THE SAME thing and now I have 75 leads, vs your 16 leads.

You may think well that is a lot of number manipulating... now I ask you.. IS IT??

Is it really?

The majority of people DO NOT LIKE being pressured. You sending a mailer again you are PUSHY and you WILL turn people off.

Now tell me honestly:

If you get 3 mailers and one is from me, and 2 others were from seriously pushy annoying disrespectful people that keep sending you mailers. Who would you call back after you are ready?

those 2 that have pissed you off.. or that one guy (me) that is credible polite respectful and NOT DESPERATE?

Sp while you sending the mailers out 6 times and getting just a fraction for the interested people every time you resend the mailers while pissing off the majority of the people that were interested you THINK you are gaining leads while in fact you are LOSING them

Tell me honestly.

Do YOU like to be bombarded and pressured with mailers? No right? Well neither does the other 99% of the population.

So YES it is an illusion.

You will NEVER know how many potential leads you are losing because you are being pushy You can NEVER know.

Now you will say, but sending the mailers again will have people see the mailers the second time when they didnt see it at first. Here is where I tell you nope! It is not that people do not see your mailers. They simply throw them away because no one like spam. so that doesn't count!


You cant argue with the numbers bud.

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

You LOVE making assumptions.

 "A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit."

I am sorry that your average profit is ONLY $2k, but certainly NOT for us. Our average profit is $20k+, 10 times what your average profit is.

"I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable." Not true. VAST majority of big investors I know from my mastermind tell me that DMM is the most consistent for them.

As for Direct Mail not working for you, did you try pulling the right list? Did you make a rookie mistake of sending to 30%+ equity of absentee just one mailer and then stopped doing any more marketing? And now you have this incorrect opinion about DMM? Did you make the mistake of using the same phone number for all different campaigns? I will be more than happy to jump on a call with you and help you with your DMM campaign.

 dude, the profit /  deal has little to do with anything.

5K/dealis a lot of money no matter how you try to spin it. Are you telling everyone you have to spend 10K to HOPE to make 2 deals?

Thats crazy!

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

You LOVE making assumptions.

 "A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit."

I am sorry that your average profit is ONLY $2k, but certainly NOT for us. Our average profit is $20k+, 10 times what your average profit is.

"I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable." Not true. VAST majority of big investors I know from my mastermind tell me that DMM is the most consistent for them.

As for Direct Mail not working for you, did you try pulling the right list? Did you make a rookie mistake of sending to 30%+ equity of absentee just one mailer and then stopped doing any more marketing? And now you have this incorrect opinion about DMM? Did you make the mistake of using the same phone number for all different campaigns? I will be more than happy to jump on a call with you and help you with your DMM campaign.

 dude, the profit /  deal has little to do with anything.

5K/dealis a lot of money no matter how you try to spin it. Are you telling everyone you have to spend 10K to HOPE to make 2 deals?

Thats crazy!

The profit/deal has little to do with anything?? WOW!! No point discussing when math and logic isn't applicable. 

Good luck with your investing, man! 

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

Sigh... so stubborn,

People simply refuse to think on their own.

Here is why sending multiple mailers to the same group is an illusion.

1st Time Sending:

Imagine you send out 1000 mailers and 100 people see your mailers. Out of the 100 that see them lets say 40 people are interested.

Out of the 40 people 10 respond to you immediately and 30 are on the fence.

2nd time sending:

Out of the 30 people that were on the fence, 5 respond to you the second time and you pissed 10 people off. These are gone. They hate you now and call you to take them off your list. So you have 15 people left over that didn't call you for more info and they didn't leave you, but they are obviously a bit annoyed.

3rd time sending a mailer:

The more often you send a mailer the faster the recipient will now be pissed as you are annoying them. So out of the 15 people left you get 1 call and 14 bounce.

So in total you have gotten 10 immediate leads, and then you got 6 additional leads resending the mailers. 

So you got 16 leads in total

So YOU say.. SEE I TOLD you it works... because you have NO CLUE how many leads you LOST sending the repeat mailers. HOW could you know?

Now consider this

sending 1000 mailers.

100 people see the mailers and you get 40 people interested and 10 respond immediately.

Since you didn't harass them the other 30 interested simply needed more time and eventually 15 of them will naturally get back in touch with you at a later point. (How many of you received a call from a mailer you send out months and months , even years ago, and they called you up? (I am raising my hand). So yes they WILL call you back as long as you do not piss them off, be pushy or harass them.

So for that round of one time mailing I made 25 leads.

SO I already beat you here.

BUT the story doesn't end here ohh no.

Instead of using the money to send mailers to the exact same poeple I am now sending a brand new bunch of people the mailers.

And again, out of the 100 people that see the mailers.. bla bla bla, same story and again I get 25 leads.

That is 50 leads,

And with the third mailer THE SAME thing and now I have 75 leads, vs your 16 leads.

You may think well that is a lot of number manipulating... now I ask you.. IS IT??

Is it really?

The majority of people DO NOT LIKE being pressured. You sending a mailer again you are PUSHY and you WILL turn people off.

Now tell me honestly:

If you get 3 mailers and one is from me, and 2 others were from seriously pushy annoying disrespectful people that keep sending you mailers. Who would you call back after you are ready?

those 2 that have pissed you off.. or that one guy (me) that is credible polite respectful and NOT DESPERATE?

Sp while you sending the mailers out 6 times and getting just a fraction for the interested people every time you resend the mailers while pissing off the majority of the people that were interested you THINK you are gaining leads while in fact you are LOSING them

Tell me honestly.

Do YOU like to be bombarded and pressured with mailers? No right? Well neither does the other 99% of the population.

So YES it is an illusion.

You will NEVER know how many potential leads you are losing because you are being pushy You can NEVER know.

Now you will say, but sending the mailers again will have people see the mailers the second time when they didnt see it at first. Here is where I tell you nope! It is not that people do not see your mailers. They simply throw them away because no one like spam. so that doesn't count!


You cant argue with the numbers bud.

"You cant argue with the numbers bud" 100% AGREED! BTW, numbers which I have shared and you haven't.

Anyway, let me know if I can help you with your DMM campaigns.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :

 ha ha try the food deduction and let me know if it works.

Then

Investor carrot costs the same as DMM?

How do you figure that?

I pay 150 a month on Carrot, and when I was doing DMM I was spending $3000 for that month...

 Woah! That's a lot of mail. 

So from what I've read digging through old forum posts, it seems like IC creates the website, but you're in the driver seat as far as SEO and building traffic is concerned. For someone inexperienced with websites and looking for their first off-market deal, do you recommend putting money into SEO? Or is that something that can be learned? I was reading a thread where a commentor said you needed to spend $1k minimum a month to get any kind of traction.

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

You LOVE making assumptions.

 "A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit."

I am sorry that your average profit is ONLY $2k, but certainly NOT for us. Our average profit is $20k+, 10 times what your average profit is.

"I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable." Not true. VAST majority of big investors I know from my mastermind tell me that DMM is the most consistent for them.

As for Direct Mail not working for you, did you try pulling the right list? Did you make a rookie mistake of sending to 30%+ equity of absentee just one mailer and then stopped doing any more marketing? And now you have this incorrect opinion about DMM? Did you make the mistake of using the same phone number for all different campaigns? I will be more than happy to jump on a call with you and help you with your DMM campaign.

 dude, the profit /  deal has little to do with anything.

5K/dealis a lot of money no matter how you try to spin it. Are you telling everyone you have to spend 10K to HOPE to make 2 deals?

Thats crazy!

The profit/deal has little to do with anything?? WOW!! No point discussing when math and logic isn't applicable. 

Good luck with your investing, man! 

 Yes indeed. you are now only trying to cling to semantics.

What ever the profit you make for a deal, 

5K/deal is a lot.

Period.

Anyways dude. I have shown you that DMM is bad. (5K/deal, with luck. We know that DMM is not reliable and not predictable.. otherwise EVERYONE would be successful right?

I have people that make 40K a month and spending 30K a month telling me that DMM is not working).

So this is not a matter of debate.

So just stop dude.

Go spend your 5K/month on DMM.

GOod luck with it.

If you tell people that DMM is a good idea or it works?

I will call you out on it and I did.

Now.. my cost / deal is 10 cents!

You can be stubborn and keep doing DMM.

Its all good.

Go for it,

I really don't care. On this thread there is enough info and proof for anyone to make their own educated decisions.

So that is the point.

Good luck man

BTW.

If you TRULY are proud of your numbers.. the numbers you get for YOURSELF>

Why don't you post this on your website for everyone to see.

"We get you deals with DMM... $5,000.-/deal!!!

ADVERTISE it. DO IT. Let's see how many people will hire you.

So if not, you really need to be quiet!

Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

 ha ha try the food deduction and let me know if it works.

Then

Investor carrot costs the same as DMM?

How do you figure that?

I pay 150 a month on Carrot, and when I was doing DMM I was spending $3000 for that month...

 Woah! That's a lot of mail. 

So from what I've read digging through old forum posts, it seems like IC creates the website, but you're in the driver seat as far as SEO and building traffic is concerned. For someone inexperienced with websites and looking for their first off-market deal, do you recommend putting money into SEO? Or is that something that can be learned? I was reading a thread where a commentor said you needed to spend $1k minimum a month to get any kind of traction.

 correct. Investor carrot is "just" a website. It is just a tool. YOU still need to make your site credible and do SEO so it ranks.

The reason I choose investor carrot is because they have what ever it is under the hood of the site right. They are fast, they customer support team is impeccable. There are some areas me and Trevor do not agree with but we both know that their site is second to none.

Do a search for we buy house sin [city] [state] and chances are it is an investor carrot site on the top 5 positions.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

 ha ha try the food deduction and let me know if it works.

Then

Investor carrot costs the same as DMM?

How do you figure that?

I pay 150 a month on Carrot, and when I was doing DMM I was spending $3000 for that month...

 Woah! That's a lot of mail. 

So from what I've read digging through old forum posts, it seems like IC creates the website, but you're in the driver seat as far as SEO and building traffic is concerned. For someone inexperienced with websites and looking for their first off-market deal, do you recommend putting money into SEO? Or is that something that can be learned? I was reading a thread where a commentor said you needed to spend $1k minimum a month to get any kind of traction.

 correct. Investor carrot is "just" a website. It is just a tool. YOU still need to make your site credible and do SEO so it ranks.

The reason I choose investor carrot is because they have what ever it is under the hood of the site right. They are fast, they customer support team is impeccable. There are some areas me and Trevor do not agree with but we both know that their site is second to none.

Do a search for we buy house sin [city] [state] and chances are it is an investor carrot site on the top 5 positions.

 Hey thanks for your input. What is your secret sauce that makes your website rank No1. I am very new to this SEO and I'd appreciate if you can help spread some information out. Thanks man 

Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

 ha ha try the food deduction and let me know if it works.

Then

Investor carrot costs the same as DMM?

How do you figure that?

I pay 150 a month on Carrot, and when I was doing DMM I was spending $3000 for that month...

 Woah! That's a lot of mail. 

So from what I've read digging through old forum posts, it seems like IC creates the website, but you're in the driver seat as far as SEO and building traffic is concerned. For someone inexperienced with websites and looking for their first off-market deal, do you recommend putting money into SEO? Or is that something that can be learned? I was reading a thread where a commentor said you needed to spend $1k minimum a month to get any kind of traction.

 correct. Investor carrot is "just" a website. It is just a tool. YOU still need to make your site credible and do SEO so it ranks.

The reason I choose investor carrot is because they have what ever it is under the hood of the site right. They are fast, they customer support team is impeccable. There are some areas me and Trevor do not agree with but we both know that their site is second to none.

Do a search for we buy house sin [city] [state] and chances are it is an investor carrot site on the top 5 positions.

 Hey thanks for your input. What is your secret sauce that makes your website rank No1. I am very new to this SEO and I'd appreciate if you can help spread some information out. Thanks man 

 I have been telling this for a long time. Everyone does SEO wrong. EVERY single person I  have seen.

Here is the thing.

ANYONE that wants to figure out SEO, where do they start?

They start with Google right? And this is WHY everyone does it wrong.

EVERY single marketing or SEO company will try to rank you #1 by doing "back links".. oh please.

Here is the funny thing. Ranking #1 on Google DOES NOT get you leads. Ranking #1 gets you TRAFFIC. You STILL need to convert that traffic into leads. Here is where brilliant SEO strategies come in.

But what do people do when they want to learn about SEO?

They do a search and they try to research what Google says how to rank.

That is where everyone goes wrong. FROG Google.

Google can kiss my arse. I do not care about Google and never will. This makes me completely immune to Google updates.

What we do, is we please our traffic. We please the home sellers.

What do you think is going to happen when you develop strategies that legitimately pleases your traffic?

We get our forms filled.

A BONUS is that Google realizes that everyone loves our website and thus Google will rank us #1.

Why? Because it is Google JOB to rank #1 the website that provides the most value to the users. THAT my friend is the ONLY rule to SEO.

As long as your website can MEASURABLY provide more value to your traffic than any other site you WILL rank #1, no matter how many friggin backlinks your competitor has.

So in order to rank #1, STOP thinking about Google and think about pleasing your traffic.

Credibility gets your forms filled and SEO gets your site seen by everyone.

So in order to rank #1 the first step is, asking yourself what would give value to my traffic? Find that answer and manifest that answer onto your website.

I have turned ranking #1 into a mathematical equation. 1 + 1 = 2 no matter how often you do it.

These are all people that used that equation to rank. It is not magic. It is AN EQUATION.

Google is an algorithm. Google is a computer program. Google is an EQUATION.

If you figure out that equation you can rank ANY website in record time. It is the simplest thing EVER as long as you know how to. And I have no issues telling you how. Obviously not in the open.

BTW.

NO NEED TO HIRE OR PAY ANYONE>

I did it on my own so can you!

Just ask your questions here and I will answer. My inbox is flooding with questions and often they are all the same questions. So please ask here

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

Sigh... so stubborn,

People simply refuse to think on their own.

Here is why sending multiple mailers to the same group is an illusion.

1st Time Sending:

Imagine you send out 1000 mailers and 100 people see your mailers. Out of the 100 that see them lets say 40 people are interested.

Out of the 40 people 10 respond to you immediately and 30 are on the fence.

2nd time sending:

Out of the 30 people that were on the fence, 5 respond to you the second time and you pissed 10 people off. These are gone. They hate you now and call you to take them off your list. So you have 15 people left over that didn't call you for more info and they didn't leave you, but they are obviously a bit annoyed.

3rd time sending a mailer:

The more often you send a mailer the faster the recipient will now be pissed as you are annoying them. So out of the 15 people left you get 1 call and 14 bounce.

So in total you have gotten 10 immediate leads, and then you got 6 additional leads resending the mailers. 

So you got 16 leads in total

So YOU say.. SEE I TOLD you it works... because you have NO CLUE how many leads you LOST sending the repeat mailers. HOW could you know?

Now consider this

sending 1000 mailers.

100 people see the mailers and you get 40 people interested and 10 respond immediately.

Since you didn't harass them the other 30 interested simply needed more time and eventually 15 of them will naturally get back in touch with you at a later point. (How many of you received a call from a mailer you send out months and months , even years ago, and they called you up? (I am raising my hand). So yes they WILL call you back as long as you do not piss them off, be pushy or harass them.

So for that round of one time mailing I made 25 leads.

SO I already beat you here.

BUT the story doesn't end here ohh no.

Instead of using the money to send mailers to the exact same poeple I am now sending a brand new bunch of people the mailers.

And again, out of the 100 people that see the mailers.. bla bla bla, same story and again I get 25 leads.

That is 50 leads,

And with the third mailer THE SAME thing and now I have 75 leads, vs your 16 leads.

You may think well that is a lot of number manipulating... now I ask you.. IS IT??

Is it really?

The majority of people DO NOT LIKE being pressured. You sending a mailer again you are PUSHY and you WILL turn people off.

Now tell me honestly:

If you get 3 mailers and one is from me, and 2 others were from seriously pushy annoying disrespectful people that keep sending you mailers. Who would you call back after you are ready?

those 2 that have pissed you off.. or that one guy (me) that is credible polite respectful and NOT DESPERATE?

Sp while you sending the mailers out 6 times and getting just a fraction for the interested people every time you resend the mailers while pissing off the majority of the people that were interested you THINK you are gaining leads while in fact you are LOSING them

Tell me honestly.

Do YOU like to be bombarded and pressured with mailers? No right? Well neither does the other 99% of the population.

So YES it is an illusion.

You will NEVER know how many potential leads you are losing because you are being pushy You can NEVER know.

Now you will say, but sending the mailers again will have people see the mailers the second time when they didnt see it at first. Here is where I tell you nope! It is not that people do not see your mailers. They simply throw them away because no one like spam. so that doesn't count!


You cant argue with the numbers bud.

"You cant argue with the numbers bud" 100% AGREED! BTW, numbers which I have shared and you haven't.

Anyway, let me know if I can help you with your DMM campaigns.

WHY in hells name would I hire you for lead generation??

You are telling me that it will cost me $5 THOUSAND dollars / deal... $5,000.- and ON TOP of that I have to pay you for your services? 

And on top of that top of that all my leads are WAY better quality than yours AND they are free!!

You must be crazy dude!

 No thanks.

I am good. :)

But good luck with the DMM though!