Putting $1M into Crypto
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
1yQuote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Steve K.:
@Jay Hinrichs Ohio, Columbus, Cleveland @Jim K. @James Wise
I don't invest in things I don't understand and I don't invest in things that I can't control. For those reasons, I've never got into Crypto so I got no friggin clue.
LOL me too.. my son in law is always telling me to buy it though. And I have some clients in Baltimore that were telling me to buy some when it got down to 15k a few years ago.. But I also had a client the year before get hosed with it.. going form 60k she paid and selling at 20k. I remember when it was 1 dollar and I do kick myself for not taking 1k and buying a thousand of them :) Even though I did not understand it then and done really now.. will stick to renting my money out to others for a fee that seems to have worked for me by and large for decades along with rehabbing or building new construction.. But like crypto can crash real estate was/is not immune from falling either.. we got hammered in 09 to 2011.
I look at it like this......If there is a random group of 10,000 people, I am probably smarter, better, and more experienced than 99% of them when it comes to making money in real estate.
Likewise, if there is a random group of 10,000 people, I am probably less knowledgeable and experienced in Crypto than 99% of them.
Only an idiot would invest their money in an area where they are on the bottom 1% when they could just invest it in an area where they are on the top 1%.
345 Replies
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
FWIW, the economy will be going through (hopefully) short term austerity.
Any leverage in any market is going to radically flip on it's head. Identify where that is, and you found the opportunity.
In America, it's almost every market. So all NAV in every field will take a circumstantial hit.
- 1yBen FernandezBusiness MemberRealtor · Lancaster, PA · Member since 2025 · 169 posts · 97 votes
I call this turbulence. The first stages of change are resistance, hesitation, confusion and uncertainty.
SPY has bounced 7 times in the last 90 days. However, bearish is nowhere in sight. We'd need to drop to 485ish for that to be validated.
Despite the consistent upward momentum, all news, even when positive, has caused dips in the market. This shows desperate activity for those who are bearish.
A huge upset, was the announcement of only 1-2 rates drops in 2025. Although, all last year we were prepared to expect about 6. Therefore, recent consumer sentiment has been terrible.
I rarely listen to news anyway because most of it is noise. Especially, since the current interest rate climate has been historically low for the last few decades. Higher rates for longer makes absolute sense if we expect to maintain strength as a nation. So, an expectation of best possible rates, over the next 10 years, being about 5%, and the worst possible high being about 7%, is reasonable. We will likely never see anything below 4% for at least 20 years. (That's if if don't an event where a something unexpected breaks - like a COVID outbreak for example).
Overall, real estate is not crashing. In fact I recall this clickbait word a little while back and...
Well, I'd say you should invest where you've performed best and not venture into new territory all because you're letting news trigger fear. No inventory, and high demand, still puts real estate owners in the power position. That won't change until new inventory arrives at a level that establishes a heathy balance between supply and demand. I will admit, many real estate markets have gotten stale since the election. But I attribute this to the failure of the expected rates drops.
Keep a close eye on the 10 yr. That'll be the trigger to bring buyers out again.
P.S. I bought ethereum in like 2000 (i think) and I do like XRP! So I'm into crypto. Just not dropping real estate for crypto! Lol
- Investor · Placitas, NM · Member since 2019 · 105 posts · 61 votes1y
Remember the tulip bubble in 1634
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Randy Dubiskas:
Remember the tulip bubble in 1634
Nobody remembers it because no one was around then.
The AI bubble will have more of an impact on crypto than most can imagine. It'll absolutely create a catastrophic event in some forms we can't anticipate or be prepared for. Then again, that's the definition of a crash.
Try the tech bubble and GFC, not tulips. This isn't irreparable and unable to recover, just very damaging.
- 1ySteve K.Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votesOP
Quote from @Randy Dubiskas:
Remember the tulip bubble in 1634
I remember it like it was yesterday ;).
I wrote a paper on this for school once upon a time and an interesting detail about the "Tulip Bubble" is that the story as it is usually told today is actually mostly false. The story was extremely exaggerated by a Scottish journalist in 1841 who was ahead of his time in the "Fake News" sector, and the tulip "mania" actually didn't involve very many people and had very little economic impact:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-...
I suppose we can still draw lessons from a story that is mostly fiction, but more accurate comparisons would probably be the South Sea Bubble in 1700s England, the 19th century railway bubble, or the dot.com bubble. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @Randy Dubiskas:
Remember the tulip bubble in 1634
I remember it like it was yesterday ;).
I wrote a paper on this for school once upon a time and an interesting detail about the "Tulip Bubble" is that the story as it is usually told today is actually mostly false. The story was extremely exaggerated by a Scottish journalist in 1841 who was ahead of his time in the "Fake News" sector, and the tulip "mania" actually didn't involve very many people and had very little economic impact:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-...
I suppose we can still draw lessons from a story that is mostly fiction, but more accurate comparisons would probably be the South Sea Bubble in 1700s England, the 19th century railway bubble, or the dot.com bubble.I think the Tulip Bubble is a very apt comparison to crypto, not on the wildly exaggerated tales of it but the truths of it.
Tulips were a legit thing of a legit utility. And via some actions a tail-spin up in it's valuation happened which became saturated by speculative investors who made argument after argument it was not speculating.
And it was the very actions of those speculative investors that actually empowered the runaway appreciation.
Sounding kinda familiar....
And as an exit began, thus dropping that pricing founded not on utility but on speculation, despite many arguing at the top otherwise, the decline was sharp and fast. Rapidly gaining compounded declines.
It was a niche investment segment.
I am not aware of any economic wide catastrophe from it.
If anything it was a great education in speculative investments vs fundamental intrinsic investments.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesThis is the dot com bubble esque though none of the crashes are the same, obviously. AI, private credit, and immense leverage in crypto(general not just BTC) are the vulnerabilities. What creates the actual fall-- we will see. If anything.
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @Randy Dubiskas:
Remember the tulip bubble in 1634
I remember it like it was yesterday ;).
I wrote a paper on this for school once upon a time and an interesting detail about the "Tulip Bubble" is that the story as it is usually told today is actually mostly false. The story was extremely exaggerated by a Scottish journalist in 1841 who was ahead of his time in the "Fake News" sector, and the tulip "mania" actually didn't involve very many people and had very little economic impact:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-...
I suppose we can still draw lessons from a story that is mostly fiction, but more accurate comparisons would probably be the South Sea Bubble in 1700s England, the 19th century railway bubble, or the dot.com bubble.
Are you just long the keys or doing a long/short? Personally am short MST and BTC futures, long the keys and IBIT. Net short 2025, long the curve. Other asset plays in portfolio to rally if I get tapped out, and other assets to benefit if we see a fall. - Investor · Placitas, NM · Member since 2019 · 105 posts · 61 votes1y
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @Randy Dubiskas:
Remember the tulip bubble in 1634
I remember it like it was yesterday ;).
I wrote a paper on this for school once upon a time and an interesting detail about the "Tulip Bubble" is that the story as it is usually told today is actually mostly false. The story was extremely exaggerated by a Scottish journalist in 1841 who was ahead of his time in the "Fake News" sector, and the tulip "mania" actually didn't involve very many people and had very little economic impact:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-...
I suppose we can still draw lessons from a story that is mostly fiction, but more accurate comparisons would probably be the South Sea Bubble in 1700s England, the 19th century railway bubble, or the dot.com bubble.Thanks for the reference. I love Smithsonian and look forward to reading the reference.
- Developer · Moscow Idaho · Member since 2024 · 224 posts · 143 votes1y
We happned to have had a beer so I know what you have going on. You have cash flow rentals in an area that is doubled every 10 years for 50 years. You could go broke and loose everything you have worked so hard to get.
Are you crazy? But if you do sell maybe sell your potfolio to me. See you later this week for a beer?
- 1ySteve K.Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votesOP
Quote from @Matthew Becker:
We happned to have had a beer so I know what you have going on. You have cash flow rentals in an area that is doubled every 10 years for 50 years. You could go broke and loose everything you have worked so hard to get.
Are you crazy? But if you do sell maybe sell your potfolio to me. See you later this week for a beer?
Haha don't worry I am not selling anything. Just having some fun. Yeah man hit me up when you get to town. Looking forward to it!
- Member since 2022 · 2 posts · 3 votes1y
I don't think that would be a bad idea if you have a 100-million-dollar portfolio and you wanted to sell 1 million to do it. With all the transition I feel like it is more prudent to hold dollars and be ready for the new normal. On the flipside, I do have a self-directed IRA that is in BTC that is funded by one of my properties. I want some exposure, but I'm not betting the farm.
- Member since 2022 · 2 posts · 3 votes1y
I would be more bullish if Trump and Melania didn't come out with their own meme tokens.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Joe J.:
I would be more bullish if Trump and Melania didn't come out with their own meme tokens.
They've gamed the euphoria and frenzy via Solana. This is the type of behavior that's just repulsive.
Honestly, the bull news was bought already. Stuff like SOL moved $100(60%), BTC $40k(40%) right after the election.
Just like the equities market, everything is priced to perfection. Any obstacle and we can see this scale of leverage unwind.
Not a fan of these little coins, at all.
- Developer · Moscow Idaho · Member since 2024 · 224 posts · 143 votes1y
i’m in steamboat now back to Boulder tomorrow. Wide open all week.
- Wholesaler · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2025 · 11 posts · 3 votes1y
This article was written over 3 years ago, and the similarity between the two is that there will be a limited supply. In real estate, yes you can build, but there are only so many plots of land so there is a cap of some sort on real estate. Heres the short article if you want to read.
- 1yDenise SuppleeBusiness MemberRealtor · Willow Grove, PA · Member since 2017 · 955 posts · 635 votes
I would never put all my money in crypto! I will NEVER put my money in one place. Do I have some there? Yes! But diversification provides a bit of a safety net. And that means investing in stocks, bonds, real estate, crypto and precious metas. For me, investing in real estate has been very good, for the most part. Like many, I had some issues in 2008. I have created with my partner Brian the coinvesting club and participate in it as well. We have invested in large apartment communites, land, vacation resorts and even an industrial company. Looking into precious metals and who knows... maybe crypto will be on the horizon. Anyway, sorry for the rant... but I wholeheartedly believe you never invest all monies in one place..
Spark Rental Co-Investing Club575 Reviews - 1yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
Just to confirm, it's a week since this thread started, and we're still long term bullish on RE right?
I have enjoyed reading the perspectives of @James Hamling and @V.G Jason
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
Just to confirm, it's a week since this thread started, and we're still long term bullish on RE right?
I have enjoyed reading the perspectives of @James Hamling and @V.G Jason
Yes, long term bull. Short term bear, polar bear.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
Just to confirm, it's a week since this thread started, and we're still long term bullish on RE right?
I have enjoyed reading the perspectives of @James Hamling and @V.G Jason
Oh-man, all this does is shift gears to double bullish on Real Estate in the NOW!
In theory, and we have somewhat seen this flesh out, as stock market / economy drops the 10yr bond also drops.
This has biggest impact on mortgage financing, not fed funds rate.
So market down means cheaper mortgage funds making for better R.E. acquisitions.
In theory.
We will have to see how it all comes together with the S/D dynamic. I anticipate it will be a brief ideal window of opportunity until every mortgage broker presses people to jump on the buy facilitating a new "rush" of buyers, driving R.E. prices up even more.
As the Oracle of Omaha says, be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesThat's if they have the liquidity to run it up. Lots will be licking their wounds, and depending on local maybe underwater on any attempt to re-fi.
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
Just to confirm, it's a week since this thread started, and we're still long term bullish on RE right?
I have enjoyed reading the perspectives of @James Hamling and @V.G Jason
Oh-man, all this does is shift gears to double bullish on Real Estate in the NOW!
In theory, and we have somewhat seen this flesh out, as stock market / economy drops the 10yr bond also drops.
This has biggest impact on mortgage financing, not fed funds rate.
So market down means cheaper mortgage funds making for better R.E. acquisitions.
In theory.
We will have to see how it all comes together with the S/D dynamic. I anticipate it will be a brief ideal window of opportunity until every mortgage broker presses people to jump on the buy facilitating a new "rush" of buyers, driving R.E. prices up even more.
As the Oracle of Omaha says, be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy.
Reality is Trump's route there's two paths;
International community concedes in some or all forms; Israel gives us land for same current aid, Ukraine gives us mineral rights & land for same current aid, Canada, Mexico, China, EU reduce tariffs.
The waiting time will be where blood is on the streets, once agreed to is where we rally up to the right.
International community resists: our economy will face major headwinds, stuck supply chain, demand depletion. Likely deflation, negative GDP growth. Their economies will all suffer to point of devastation-- who blinks first?
The former will help America, make international suffer. The latter will help America after suffering, but will destroy the world.
I see only hard times in the short term.
- Member since 2024 · 5 posts · 3 votes1y
Quote from @Steve K.:
The President Announced a Strategic Crypto Reserve consisting of ether, XRP, SOL, and Cardano/ADA. His son Eric said crypto is better than real estate for 2025. It seems like except for crypto, the economy is crashing. Should I sell my real estate and invest in crypto in 2025?
Hello Steve,
Most people replying to your post have no understanding of how Bitcoin works. I would suggest you read the "Bitcoin Standard" and spend some time understanding: Cryptography, Blockchain technology, and hashing power.- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesHave not read it, but give us a breakdown.
Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @Steve K.:
The President Announced a Strategic Crypto Reserve consisting of ether, XRP, SOL, and Cardano/ADA. His son Eric said crypto is better than real estate for 2025. It seems like except for crypto, the economy is crashing. Should I sell my real estate and invest in crypto in 2025?
Hello Steve,
Most people replying to your post have no understanding of how Bitcoin works. I would suggest you read the "Bitcoin Standard" and spend some time understanding: Cryptography, Blockchain technology, and hashing power. - Member since 2024 · 5 posts · 3 votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Have not read it, but give us a breakdown.Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @Steve K.:
The President Announced a Strategic Crypto Reserve consisting of ether, XRP, SOL, and Cardano/ADA. His son Eric said crypto is better than real estate for 2025. It seems like except for crypto, the economy is crashing. Should I sell my real estate and invest in crypto in 2025?
Hello Steve,
Most people replying to your post have no understanding of how Bitcoin works. I would suggest you read the "Bitcoin Standard" and spend some time understanding: Cryptography, Blockchain technology, and hashing power.Jason,
If I give you a breakdown, you will forget it in 21 days. If you read the book, it will stay in your mind. - 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Have not read it, but give us a breakdown.Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @Steve K.:
The President Announced a Strategic Crypto Reserve consisting of ether, XRP, SOL, and Cardano/ADA. His son Eric said crypto is better than real estate for 2025. It seems like except for crypto, the economy is crashing. Should I sell my real estate and invest in crypto in 2025?
Hello Steve,
Most people replying to your post have no understanding of how Bitcoin works. I would suggest you read the "Bitcoin Standard" and spend some time understanding: Cryptography, Blockchain technology, and hashing power.Jason,
If I give you a breakdown, you will forget it in 21 days. If you read the book, it will stay in your mind.
Well, not sure if you've read the thread entirely. But if you have, how much does it add that I've not?
If significantly, I'll grab it.
As for the USB stance, that's just a lazy misunderstanding of what crypto entails. Posts like just show a complete lack of knowledge. - Member since 2024 · 5 posts · 3 votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Have not read it, but give us a breakdown.Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @Steve K.:
The President Announced a Strategic Crypto Reserve consisting of ether, XRP, SOL, and Cardano/ADA. His son Eric said crypto is better than real estate for 2025. It seems like except for crypto, the economy is crashing. Should I sell my real estate and invest in crypto in 2025?
Hello Steve,
Most people replying to your post have no understanding of how Bitcoin works. I would suggest you read the "Bitcoin Standard" and spend some time understanding: Cryptography, Blockchain technology, and hashing power.Jason,
If I give you a breakdown, you will forget it in 21 days. If you read the book, it will stay in your mind.
Well, not sure if you've read the thread entirely. But if you have, how much does it add that I've not?
If significantly, I'll grab it.
As for the USB stance, that's just a lazy misunderstanding of what crypto entails. Posts like just show a complete lack of knowledge.Hello Jason, I noticed that your recent post lacks substance and detail. I would like to understand your perspective on what cryptocurrencies entail and the misconceptions surrounding them. I’m confident that I can teach you a thing or two about cryptography and blockchain.
- Attorney · Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 4 votes1y
I understand crypto well enough from an asset protection standpoint and how to shield it from lawsuits. As for personal investment, I view it as highly speculative—I wouldn’t put in more than I’d be willing to take to Vegas and lose entirely. I’m a big believer in diversification, which includes cash value life insurance, stocks, bonds, and rental properties. Crypto is just a small, speculative play within my portfolio, not a core investment strategy. But what I do like about it is the volatility. I know lots of people that made a fortune, and I also know lots of people that lost a fortune and went broke. But the same can be said for real estate.
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
- Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yIncorrect about crypto not cash flowing. One can obtain yields far in excess of any RE investment in DeFi, just using stable coins that maintain their peg to the dollar. Mind you, you could also lose every cent you put in if you get rugged, so it is not for the faint of heart.
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
- Member since 2024 · 5 posts · 3 votes1y
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Hey Marcus,
Real Estate, Stocks, E.T.C. are based on the same principle. You buy it hoping that someone else will buy it from you at a higher price point. Most crypto, indeed, has no intrinsic value. The other remaining crypto will change the world. As your argument with the USB, it has a seed phrase, you do not need a USB, as long as you do not forget the 12 words (seed phrase). I would suggest you take some time and learn about blockchain, cryptography and hashing power. - Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Chad U.:
Incorrect about crypto not cash flowing. One can obtain yields far in excess of any RE investment in DeFi, just using stable coins that maintain their peg to the dollar. Mind you, you could also lose every cent you put in if you get rugged, so it is not for the faint of heart.Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Well, if you run a lending business on crypto you get interest, but crypto in itself does not cash flow. Neither does gold.
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Hey Marcus,
Real Estate, Stocks, E.T.C. are based on the same principle. You buy it hoping that someone else will buy it from you at a higher price point. Most crypto, indeed, has no intrinsic value. The other remaining crypto will change the world. As your argument with the USB, it has a seed phrase, you do not need a USB, as long as you do not forget the 12 words (seed phrase). I would suggest you take some time and learn about blockchain, cryptography and hashing power.Yes you can use use your zengo or coinbase wallet so you don't need to bring a USB stick. I was just making a point. Don't be so offended
If you buy a farm it does not matter if farm prices go up or down, you make money every year. If you buy an apartment building and real estate prices drop to half, it does not matter, because people can live in it and pay rent. If you buy dividend stocks, it does not matter, you get dividends...
You do know about the Dutch tulips right?
- Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yThere are several that do without having to lend, one in particular is called Ethena. The premise behind it is a delta neutral basis trade that arbitrages funding rates on various exchanges, which has consistently paid 5-30%+ APR since its inception.
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Chad U.:
Incorrect about crypto not cash flowing. One can obtain yields far in excess of any RE investment in DeFi, just using stable coins that maintain their peg to the dollar. Mind you, you could also lose every cent you put in if you get rugged, so it is not for the faint of heart.Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Well, if you run a lending business on crypto you get interest, but crypto in itself does not cash flow. Neither does gold.
This is just one example, there are hundreds of other strategies where you obtain yield on your crypto. - Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Chad U.:
There are several that do without having to lend, one in particular is called Ethena. The premise behind it is a delta neutral basis trade that arbitrages funding rates on various exchanges, which has consistently paid 5-30%+ APR since its inception.Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Chad U.:
Incorrect about crypto not cash flowing. One can obtain yields far in excess of any RE investment in DeFi, just using stable coins that maintain their peg to the dollar. Mind you, you could also lose every cent you put in if you get rugged, so it is not for the faint of heart.Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Well, if you run a lending business on crypto you get interest, but crypto in itself does not cash flow. Neither does gold.
This is just one example, there are hundreds of other strategies where you obtain yield on your crypto.Right, but that still does not make it an investment. It's a currency. You can lend out dollars too, (or Euros if you want it to sound more exciting). Nobody would say: I invest in dollars because they "cash flow". Same with crypto.
- Member since 2024 · 5 posts · 3 votes1y
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Andres Giraldo:
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Hey Marcus,
Real Estate, Stocks, E.T.C. are based on the same principle. You buy it hoping that someone else will buy it from you at a higher price point. Most crypto, indeed, has no intrinsic value. The other remaining crypto will change the world. As your argument with the USB, it has a seed phrase, you do not need a USB, as long as you do not forget the 12 words (seed phrase). I would suggest you take some time and learn about blockchain, cryptography and hashing power.Yes you can use use your zengo or coinbase wallet so you don't need to bring a USB stick. I was just making a point. Don't be so offended
If you buy a farm it does not matter if farm prices go up or down, you make money every year. If you buy an apartment building and real estate prices drop to half, it does not matter, because people can live in it and pay rent. If you buy dividend stocks, it does not matter, you get dividends...
You do know about the Dutch tulips right?
Hello Marcus, yes, I am aware of the Dutch tulips. What are you trying to say? I understand your perspective on Dutch tulips, but I'm having trouble seeing how it relates to cryptography and blockchain technology. I would love to read your comparison.
* (btw, I am not offended lol) - Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y99.9% of crypto is not currency. And there are numerous crypto that earn staking yields, which are paid out in their denominations. The yields generally pay out 2-15% and protocols allow you to leverage up these yields. I've attached an example of one such protocol where you can currently get 23.5% APR on an Ethereum derivative.
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Chad U.:
There are several that do without having to lend, one in particular is called Ethena. The premise behind it is a delta neutral basis trade that arbitrages funding rates on various exchanges, which has consistently paid 5-30%+ APR since its inception.Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Quote from @Chad U.:
Incorrect about crypto not cash flowing. One can obtain yields far in excess of any RE investment in DeFi, just using stable coins that maintain their peg to the dollar. Mind you, you could also lose every cent you put in if you get rugged, so it is not for the faint of heart.Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
Crypto is 100% speculation. Remember the dutch tulips?
If not, you might want to google it..
You basically buy crypto in the hope that someone else will buy it from you for more. Crypto has no intrinsic value. Crypto does not cash flow. It's even worse than gold in that way. Might as well buy an NFT. High on hopeum.
The best argument I see for crypto is that you can take it with you on a USB drive. But you gotta have some nerve to put your life savings on a USB drive, fly to New Zealand and hope that the USB drive is not broken when you plug it in.
Well, if you run a lending business on crypto you get interest, but crypto in itself does not cash flow. Neither does gold.
This is just one example, there are hundreds of other strategies where you obtain yield on your crypto.Right, but that still does not make it an investment. It's a currency. You can lend out dollars too, (or Euros if you want it to sound more exciting). Nobody would say: I invest in dollars because they "cash flow". Same with crypto.
- 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
@Steve K., for clarity is proposing the following three step plan to become a millionaire in just a single year:
Step 1: Start with $2M in real estate equity.
Step 2: Sell it and exchange it for crypto.
Step 3: Wait 1 year, become a millionaire.
- 1ySteve K.Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votesOP
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Steve K., for clarity is proposing the following three step plan to become a millionaire in just a single year:
Step 1: Start with $2M in real estate equity.
Step 2: Sell it and exchange it for crypto.
Step 3: Wait 1 year, become a millionaire.
Haha so are you saying the easiest way to have $1M in crypto is to start with $2M?
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Steve K., for clarity is proposing the following three step plan to become a millionaire in just a single year:
Step 1: Start with $2M in real estate equity.
Step 2: Sell it and exchange it for crypto.
Step 3: Wait 1 year, become a millionaire.
Haha so are you saying the easiest way to have $1M in crypto is to start with $2M?
I mean, I would agree with that.
- Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 107 posts · 89 votes1yBTC has been the best performing investment of all time since inception with a CAGR above 40% since inception (technically infinite but starting after the first quoted price).
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Steve K., for clarity is proposing the following three step plan to become a millionaire in just a single year:
Step 1: Start with $2M in real estate equity.
Step 2: Sell it and exchange it for crypto.
Step 3: Wait 1 year, become a millionaire.
In any given year, you could have an 80% or x% drawdown, but you have always been better off in any 4 Year period from a sharpe ratio perspective having some small percentage versus none at all.
Ceterus peribus, M2 money supply grows by 6.8% and the economy that money "represents" grows about 2%ish, so 8.8% should be the long term return, minus a annual 0.05% dilution each year for the next 100 years of issuance. It will probably have excess return above that from net new adoption as well. It's really quite a simple pitch, like gold in the past without a lot of the limitations.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
FWIW, equities are pricing back to later Q3 + Oct days of 2024.
Real estate, in some markets, is listed under Q2 & Q3 2024 as we are in Mar 2025.
Bitcoin is still 30% over Q3, but barely over Q2(about 5-15% more). Alt crypto is significantly higher, especially XRP.(50c vs 2.25+).
It has some serious room to fall. The entire crypto space does.
Real estate is a lag, but this should come down harder in those places it's already being tested at. Equities I don't see finding Dec24-Jan25 numbers before seeing early 2024 numbers. BTC I don't see hitting 150k before 70k or even high 50s.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
S&P up today. BTC passing $88k.
Can't help but think it'll rally a bit into Q1 earning season. Light choppiness for the next week, then a bit more turbulent Apr 2 until we get some clarity on the tariffs.
Next earnings for Mag 7:
META- 04/23/2025
TSLA- 04/23/2025
MSFT- 04/24/2025
AMZ- 04/29/2025
AAPL- 05/01/2025
NVIDIA- 05/28/2025
Unemployment is April 4, 2025 for March and first Friday of May for April's unemployment.Going to continue to buy any new lows(except Tesla until it's closer to $190), not sell much more. Will sell Tesla allocation if it crosses the 50DMA(closer to the $330s). Won't get short there, just will get flat. Going to get longer IBIT as we get closer to the April 2nd tariff date, and buy any news there(good or bad).
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
S&P up today. BTC passing $88k.
Can't help but think it'll rally a bit into Q1 earning season. Light choppiness for the next week, then a bit more turbulent Apr 2 until we get some clarity on the tariffs.
Next earnings for Mag 7:
META- 04/23/2025
TSLA- 04/23/2025
MSFT- 04/24/2025
AMZ- 04/29/2025
AAPL- 05/01/2025
NVIDIA- 05/28/2025
Unemployment is April 4, 2025 for March and first Friday of May for April's unemployment.Going to continue to buy any new lows(except Tesla until it's closer to $190), not sell much more. Will sell Tesla allocation if it crosses the 50DMA(closer to the $330s). Won't get short there, just will get flat. Going to get longer IBIT as we get closer to the April 2nd tariff date, and buy any news there(good or bad).
My Spidy-sense is tingling......
I don't trust todays rally. It looks a lot more like a bull-trap with exception to NVDA. NVDA one can clearly see big-$ pilling back in, which makes total sense.
The rest, or at least the vast majority, what was this rally on? What big "thing" happened? yeah, nothing.
It feels like a false pump to transfer bags unto retail in preparation for next drop.
TSLA is a great example of this. I'd say it was negative news and it jumps 10%+.......
Even BTC's "rally" is lack luster. A REAL BTC rally would be cruising through 90's and punching through 100. This is just trading activity. I still need to see a consolidation in 70's before I hold any faith in a rally anytime soon. Or some catalyst that over-rights a consolidation.
Market wide moves of 2%+ on little to no news is not a good thing.
Watch for big red days to equally come. That's what volatility in this measure brings, big up's and big downs.
Just makes the case for Real Estate all the more.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @V.G Jason:
S&P up today. BTC passing $88k.
Can't help but think it'll rally a bit into Q1 earning season. Light choppiness for the next week, then a bit more turbulent Apr 2 until we get some clarity on the tariffs.
Next earnings for Mag 7:
META- 04/23/2025
TSLA- 04/23/2025
MSFT- 04/24/2025
AMZ- 04/29/2025
AAPL- 05/01/2025
NVIDIA- 05/28/2025
Unemployment is April 4, 2025 for March and first Friday of May for April's unemployment.Going to continue to buy any new lows(except Tesla until it's closer to $190), not sell much more. Will sell Tesla allocation if it crosses the 50DMA(closer to the $330s). Won't get short there, just will get flat. Going to get longer IBIT as we get closer to the April 2nd tariff date, and buy any news there(good or bad).
My Spidy-sense is tingling......
I don't trust todays rally. It looks a lot more like a bull-trap with exception to NVDA. NVDA one can clearly see big-$ pilling back in, which makes total sense.
The rest, or at least the vast majority, what was this rally on? What big "thing" happened? yeah, nothing.
It feels like a false pump to transfer bags unto retail in preparation for next drop.
TSLA is a great example of this. I'd say it was negative news and it jumps 10%+.......
Even BTC's "rally" is lack luster. A REAL BTC rally would be cruising through 90's and punching through 100. This is just trading activity. I still need to see a consolidation in 70's before I hold any faith in a rally anytime soon. Or some catalyst that over-rights a consolidation.
Market wide moves of 2%+ on little to no news is not a good thing.
Watch for big red days to equally come. That's what volatility in this measure brings, big up's and big downs.
Just makes the case for Real Estate all the more.
Pension re-balancing is why it's up. Plus Trump's comments on flexibility with tariffs.
Tesla is up from retail buying in, it'll retreat. Curious to see if insiders sell more, if it retreats. That'll break it. I am eager to see Q1 earnings on Tesla.
- 1yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
- Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes1y
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect - 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent. - Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y.
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.
Your comment "You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent."
Now, that is Not something I believe. No offense meant. But it simply isn't believable.
The whole reason the blockchain got started was to launder funds and to do illegal things. Okay, let me modify that, as soon as it was created, it was used for money laundering and illegal things so people didn't get caught. - 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesOk then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it. For others that are open minded and willing to try to understand, then read below.
Quote from @Ken M.:
.Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.
Your comment "You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent."
Now, that is Not something I believe. No offense meant. But it simply isn't believable.
The whole reason the blockchain got started was to launder funds and to do illegal things. Okay, let me modify that, as soon as it was created, it was used for money laundering and illegal things so people didn't get caught.
Do you know what the blockchain is or even means?
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
What you're staying is an exchange issue, as in not being regulated. Not a blockchain issue--it's literally meant to be the most transparent system.
It is always 100% clear where the asset moved, it's not always clear if you can access it. That depends on the exchange. Not blockchain.
Anyone thinking their truly anonymous has learned the hard way their not, or due to international law has gotten away with it.
There's a reason we know the Lazarus group was behind Bybit and Heather Morgan/Ilya were behind Bitfinex among many others ---blockchain. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.You know that's only kinda true in some ways and totally not true in others.
For example, BTC is the "currency" of choice by North Korean hack & scam teams.
There is ways malicious actor's can very readily use BTC to take in $, world wide, wash it clean and reap the rewards.
Russian sanctioned hack & scam teams do the same, as well as others from Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, the list goes on and on.
It's transparent for the average user, and the malicious actors can readily use it in full anonymity 1,000X easier than any other tool of value conveyance.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it. For others that are open minded and willing to try to understand, then read below.Quote from @Ken M.:
.Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.
Your comment "You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent."
Now, that is Not something I believe. No offense meant. But it simply isn't believable.
The whole reason the blockchain got started was to launder funds and to do illegal things. Okay, let me modify that, as soon as it was created, it was used for money laundering and illegal things so people didn't get caught.
Do you know what the blockchain is or even means?
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
What you're staying is an exchange issue, as in not being regulated. Not a blockchain issue--it's literally meant to be the most transparent system.
It is always 100% clear where the asset moved, it's not always clear if you can access it. That depends on the exchange. Not blockchain.
Anyone thinking their truly anonymous has learned the hard way their not, or due to international law has gotten away with it.
There's a reason we know the Lazarus group was behind Bybit and Heather Morgan/Ilya were behind Bitfinex among many others ---blockchain.To be exact and accurate, the movement of funds is 100% transparent.
The identity of the person behind that amount of BTC is the item that is not as clear. It can be, but if one doesn't want it to be, that is rather easy to do.
And given the nature of BTC, one can use advanced laundering tactics of (using algorithms for such) moves upon moves upon moves that lays a very complex trail to follow.
Now, with current leaps in ai it's adding a whole new levels of capabilities in tracing such, heck probably even monitoring for such. And that could change things. But were in the land of theory here but the capability is coming into being so it's just a matter of deployment.
So what was and even is, is not necessarily a dictator of what will continue to be. But for the now, it is what it is.
The facts really are the vast majority of utility for BTC is (a) for nefarious operations (b) investing, and (c) reserve is in it's infancy - toddler age but growing fast.
And in that order.
- Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it. For others that are open minded and willing to try to understand, then read below.Quote from @Ken M.:
.Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.
Your comment "You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent."
Now, that is Not something I believe. No offense meant. But it simply isn't believable.
The whole reason the blockchain got started was to launder funds and to do illegal things. Okay, let me modify that, as soon as it was created, it was used for money laundering and illegal things so people didn't get caught.
Do you know what the blockchain is or even means?
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
What you're staying is an exchange issue, as in not being regulated. Not a blockchain issue--it's literally meant to be the most transparent system.
It is always 100% clear where the asset moved, it's not always clear if you can access it. That depends on the exchange. Not blockchain.
Anyone thinking their truly anonymous has learned the hard way their not, or due to international law has gotten away with it.
There's a reason we know the Lazarus group was behind Bybit and Heather Morgan/Ilya were behind Bitfinex among many others ---blockchain.
Your comment: "Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it."
I've been educated on Santa Clause and I don't believe in him either.
I come from the tech world. I have a little understanding. ;-) I understand it well enough to reject it. I also understand Subject To pretty darn well and average investors shouldn't get near it either, but that doesn't stop a Facebook group of 150,000 novices from dabbling in it to their peril. Just because it (Bitcoin, Subject To, Psilocybin) is "discovered" does not make it safe or recommended.
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
That's a lot of data to sort through to find anything.
Anyway, that data exchange would make it slow and unlikely to become useful as a functioning form of exchange for goods and services anytime soon. - 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it. For others that are open minded and willing to try to understand, then read below.Quote from @Ken M.:
.Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.
Your comment "You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent."
Now, that is Not something I believe. No offense meant. But it simply isn't believable.
The whole reason the blockchain got started was to launder funds and to do illegal things. Okay, let me modify that, as soon as it was created, it was used for money laundering and illegal things so people didn't get caught.
Do you know what the blockchain is or even means?
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
What you're staying is an exchange issue, as in not being regulated. Not a blockchain issue--it's literally meant to be the most transparent system.
It is always 100% clear where the asset moved, it's not always clear if you can access it. That depends on the exchange. Not blockchain.
Anyone thinking their truly anonymous has learned the hard way their not, or due to international law has gotten away with it.
There's a reason we know the Lazarus group was behind Bybit and Heather Morgan/Ilya were behind Bitfinex among many others ---blockchain.
Your comment: "Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it."
I've been educated on Santa Clause and I don't believe in him either.
I come from the tech world. I have a little understanding. ;-) I understand it well enough to reject it. I also understand Subject To pretty darn well and average investors shouldn't get near it either, but that doesn't stop a Facebook group of 150,000 novices from dabbling in it to their peril. Just because it (Bitcoin, Subject To, Psilocybin) is "discovered" does not make it safe or recommended.
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
That's a lot of data to sort through to find anything.
Anyway, that data exchange would make it slow and unlikely to become useful as a functioning form of exchange for goods and services anytime soon.Much like James said, the movement of funds is transparent. It is pseudo anonymous, by default.
That's why as regulation picks up, it'll be a lot easier. US exchanges require KYC/AML & licensing. Of all places, the Cayman islands now require licensing(effective Apr 1). So if there's the regulatory levels at the exchange level, it's incredibly easy to spot the bad offenders. North Korea I don't expect anything anytime soon,
Like anything though, there's always crooks out there figuring out how to deceit the system.
In an earlier post, I put a chart up of sanctioned entities, etc., again just as more adoption takes place there'll be more structure. It's not an overnight process.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it. For others that are open minded and willing to try to understand, then read below.Quote from @Ken M.:
.Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike H.:
How in the world does crypto make any sense. Its nothing but a speculative play on an investment that literally has no value unless more people continue to buy it. Even if you could use it to pay for things (which you can a little but nowhere near enough places take it), the issue is how is it possibly better than just using a debit or credit card?
Your security for crypto is absolutely terrible. If someone hacks your bank account, its insured and you get it back. if they steal your crypto, its gone forever. And these crypto exchanges have been hacked or they themselves have stolen money out of accounts.
If you like ponzi schemes, then crypto is the way to go. Just time it right so you buy before the suckers go in and you sell before everybody else gets out.
But I just don't understand how you can possibly believe that crypto is better than cash. Cash is digital too with the use of credit/debit cards or ach. And its insured.
The only thing that makes crypto go up is to have more people want to buy it. But what are they doing with it other than holding it and hoping more people buy it. There literally is almost no value in using it.
bad actors hiding their money is a big % I suspect
You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent.
Your comment "You can't hide on the blockchain. It's transparent."
Now, that is Not something I believe. No offense meant. But it simply isn't believable.
The whole reason the blockchain got started was to launder funds and to do illegal things. Okay, let me modify that, as soon as it was created, it was used for money laundering and illegal things so people didn't get caught.
Do you know what the blockchain is or even means?
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
What you're staying is an exchange issue, as in not being regulated. Not a blockchain issue--it's literally meant to be the most transparent system.
It is always 100% clear where the asset moved, it's not always clear if you can access it. That depends on the exchange. Not blockchain.
Anyone thinking their truly anonymous has learned the hard way their not, or due to international law has gotten away with it.
There's a reason we know the Lazarus group was behind Bybit and Heather Morgan/Ilya were behind Bitfinex among many others ---blockchain.
Your comment: "Ok then don't believe it. Just like this entire topic, you're just not educated on it."
I've been educated on Santa Clause and I don't believe in him either.
I come from the tech world. I have a little understanding. ;-) I understand it well enough to reject it. I also understand Subject To pretty darn well and average investors shouldn't get near it either, but that doesn't stop a Facebook group of 150,000 novices from dabbling in it to their peril. Just because it (Bitcoin, Subject To, Psilocybin) is "discovered" does not make it safe or recommended.
The blockchain is a distributed, public ledger that contains the history of every bitcoin transaction. Anyone can download a copy of the blockchain, and it can be inspected to trace the path of bitcoins from one bitcoin transaction to another.
That's a lot of data to sort through to find anything.
Anyway, that data exchange would make it slow and unlikely to become useful as a functioning form of exchange for goods and services anytime soon.Much like James said, the movement of funds is transparent. It is pseudo anonymous, by default.
That's why as regulation picks up, it'll be a lot easier. US exchanges require KYC/AML & licensing. Of all places, the Cayman islands now require licensing(effective Apr 1). So if there's the regulatory levels at the exchange level, it's incredibly easy to spot the bad offenders. North Korea I don't expect anything anytime soon,
Like anything though, there's always crooks out there figuring out how to deceit the system.
In an earlier post, I put a chart up of sanctioned entities, etc., again just as more adoption takes place there'll be more structure. It's not an overnight process.
Playing devil's advocate, to that point, for a looooooong time there was the widely done action with "normal" currency of coin clipping and shaving.
To such a point that merchant's would weigh and dunk the currency to check for validity.
"Money" didn't get to where it is now over night or even in a few short years.
Counterfeiting and what not.
So growing pains is not anything new or abnormal for a store of value.
That said, I'm not rah-rah BTC myself. A bit more bearish than bullish, but I still acknowledge the fact's of it all.
- Member since 2018 · 1 post · 2 votes1y
I've worked in crypto/blockchain for 5 years now.
In general, I agree with other posts that say, "Don't invest in things you don't understand."
That aside, with the huge year of progress in crypto ETFs along with huge tailwinds from the current administration, it's safe to say (most of) crypto isn't going anywhere tomorrow. It's been institutionalized and, I believe, will become more engrained in our financial system over time.
Still, it's a new(er), relatively volatile asset class that I would classify as high risk. If you have appetite for that in your portfolio, that's great! It should probably take a relative proportion based on that classification, so ~5% give or take.
I do not see it as a replacement for real estate by any means. They are very different asset classes.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Markets taking a beating beyond most expectations, yet Bitcoin is remaining quite resilient. Up 2% versus just catastrophic draws across the board.
It is gravitating away from a hyper-tech trading pattern.
Adding to QQQ & proactively covering some shorts at these levels in domestic markets, and opening up some net shorts in international markets.
Usually when such quick, abrasive cuts hit the market there's something unexpected that breaks. Curious if that applies and what it is. Maybe openai I don't know?
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Markets taking a beating beyond most expectations, yet Bitcoin is remaining quite resilient. Up 2% versus just catastrophic draws across the board.
It is gravitating away from a hyper-tech trading pattern. Should see a drawdown soon, I believe.
Adding to QQQ & proactively covering some shorts at these levels in domestic markets, and opening up some net shorts in international markets.
Usually when such quick, abrasive cuts hit the market there's something unexpected that breaks. Curious if that applies and what it is. Maybe openai I don't know?
- Member since 2025 · 316 posts · 119 votes1y
I lost some money on SOL. So no. Crypto is even harder to do than conventional stock markets. But today I learned another lesson...
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesYou lost money cause you realized it.
Quote from @Ying Tang:
I lost some money on SOL. So no. Crypto is even harder to do than conventional stock markets. But today I learned another lesson...
Buy with some conviction & understand what you're getting into it. Discipline, patience and conviction. Hard to lose then. - Member since 2025 · 316 posts · 119 votes1y
@V.G Jason no actually I exchanged into llm, swarms, the one, A1z, Barron meme, doge.gov, which basically equals zero now.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Ying Tang:
@V.G Jason no actually I exchanged into llm, swarms, the one, A1z, Barron meme, doge.gov, which basically equals zero now.
Sheesh that sounds like you literally fell for scam after scam. I always wondered who actually bought that stuff?
Appreciate your honesty. No one to blame but yourself. - Member since 2025 · 316 posts · 119 votes1y
@V.G Jason Luckily not much money invested. Just to test it out. Nothing to blame myself for. I was just wondering how it works.
- Member since 2025 · 316 posts · 119 votes1y
@V.G Jason There are actually people who make millions off these things. They need to get in and get out quickly, as if they were playing video games. A lot of young folks are into this. They have their groups for doing that, they would get on a video conference and ask everyone to buy when they think "the time comes" for a specific meme. I decided it's not for me.
- Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yYep, for most memes you gotta be in the trenches and if you're lucky enough, get in on the cabal. Only way to truly make it.
Quote from @Ying Tang:
@V.G Jason There are actually people who make millions off these things. They need to get in and get out quickly, as if they were playing video games. A lot of young folks are into this. They have their groups for doing that, they would get on a video conference and ask everyone to buy when they think "the time comes" for a specific meme. I decided it's not for me.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
To put you on some game about what I was talking about on another thread.
Pre-election 6 month chart. If Kamala won this would've tanked the equities market. Trump winning did the inverse. I got long CDS after Trump won--full disclosure. Very cheap bet, for a few hundred million you're paying .1% to put it on. Just as an insurance. This pays off less than 5% of the time, and maybe 1% of the time-- it's the jackpot. I'm betting on one of those two outputs.
YTD & 1M
To my point of 2023 with QE covering the reality of the market needing to get smacked:
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again-- go find the (over)levered positions and you will make a fortune. Lifetime supply of money.
- Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yNice, so you are taking a long position on CDS? Where do you buy these, IBKR?
Quote from @V.G Jason:
To put you on some game about what I was talking about on another thread.
Pre-election 6 month chart. If Kamala won this would've tanked the equities market. Trump winning did the inverse. I got long CDS after Trump won--full disclosure. Very cheap bet, for a few hundred million you're paying .1% to put it on. Just as an insurance. This pays off less than 5% of the time, and maybe 1% of the time-- it's the jackpot. I'm betting on one of those two outputs.
YTD & 1M
To my point of 2023 with QE covering the reality of the market needing to get smacked:
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again-- go find the (over)levered positions and you will make a fortune. Lifetime supply of money.
Another sure bet during these volatility swings is playing the VIX. When it hit >60 last week, I went short. Been paying off quite nicely.
- 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I am thinking BTC actually might be the leading indicator of the markets, not necessarily a de-coupling just the forward move.
Largest 1-day rally in a lot of US markets today; yet BTC down 2%. It had such a rally very recently though.
Maybe a trend to watch.
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