BiggerPockets Podcast 110 with Glenn McCrorey Transcript

Link to show: BP Podcast 110: Eliminating the Hassle Factor As a Landlord with Glenn McCrorey

Josh: This is the BiggerPockets Podcast, show 110!

I don’t interview the people that are actually going to be living in the house, so I don’t deal with applications, or background checks, or any of those things.

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Josh: What’s going on everybody? This is Josh Dorkin, host of the BiggerPockets Podcast, here with my co-host, it’s Brandon. What up B?

Brandon: What up J? Are we not tired of that introduction yet? You know, we have got to spice this up!

Josh: Oh yeah? How are we supposed to spice it up? Should we get some salsa music, some dancers?

Brandon: We should get some music, we should get some music and be like you know I don’t know, “Here comes Josh and Brandon, here comes Josh and Brandon.”

Josh: Nice, nice. I like it, I like it. All right, somebody record it and send it our way and we’ll do it!

Brandon: Okay!

Josh: Good show ahead today, man. We’ve got a lot of interesting strategies to talk about, don’t we?

Brandon: We do! This is a cool one. This is something that I latched onto, because in my land-lording, it gets a little bit stressful and there’s a lot of hassle sometimes. Today, our guest actually uses a word called, or a phrase called the “hassle factor” and talks about how to eliminate it. His strategy has almost no hassle, and you guys are going to love this.

Josh: Yeah! It’s really smart, really really brilliant. You know we haven’t talked to anybody about this and man, I love doing these interviews and learning new stuff, it’s just awesome! It’s awesome.

Brandon: Me too!

Josh: Well with that, let’s get this kind of up front stuff out of the way and we will get right to the show, so Brandon, why don’t you take it away with today’s sponsor?

Brandon: Sure! All right! Today’s episode was brought to you by Realtyshares.com. Realty shares is a real estate crowd-funding platform that allows accredited investors to invest in pre-vetted real estate deals online. So investors can browse and invest in both residential and commercial properties that yield returns of eight to 16 percent annually. As a realty shares member, you can passively invest in professionally managed real estate investments in a variety of asset-types and locations for as little as five thousand bucks, all from the convenience of your living room! To learn more and to get started with a free account, visit Realtyshares.com/BiggerPockets. Again that’s Realtyshares.com/BiggerPockets.

Josh: There you go! There you go. Nice, nice. Awesome!

Brandon: Trivia?

Josh: Let’s do it!

Brandon: Let’s do it!

Josh: Today’s trivia is,

Brandon: at last week’s show we sat down with Scott Smith, an attorney, a very smart one, from Austin, TX…

Josh: Or so we think…

Brandon: We think he seems pretty smart to me. Who taught us how to protect ourselves from that inevitable situation of getting sued. On that show, Scott mentioned a certain kind of trust that he said was as good as an offshore account. What was the name of that trust? If you think you know, send an email to trivia@BiggerPockets.com for your chance to win the digital version The Book on Investing and Real Estate with No and Low Money Down written by yours truly. And if you want to pick up a copy of that without doing the trivia, BiggerPockets.com/nomoney. Check it out!

Josh: There we go! Nice stuff, nice stuff! All right! Well, let’s get to this, today’s guest, Glenn McCrorey! Glenn McCrorey - I have a hard time saying it - is a landlord from the great state of Iowa who has a unique and very appealing niche in the real estate space. Glenn was recently able to quit his job and is kind of running that hassle-free land-lording business that we had alluded to earlier. I think you’re going to love it, there’s really just a whole lot of cool stuff to gain from this show, so I know I’m excited to introduce him, and let’s bring him on board. Very quickly before we do, this is BiggerPockets.com/show110. This is actually BiggerPockets.com Podcast Show 110, but you can find the show notes at BiggerPockets.com/show110, and we’ve got notes there if you want to ask questions to our guest, so feel free to do that over there. And with that, why don’t we bring him on. All right Glenn! Welcome to the show, man! It’s good to have you here!

Glenn: Well thanks guys! It’s surreal of a pleasure to be talking to you live.

Brandon: It’s surreal for me too, man! I see you wearing that shirt, and you know, I mean, it’s freaking me out!

Josh: Yeah man. No, seriously though, it’s great to have you man. We’re very excited to chat with you. You have a very unique strategy and we’re looking forward to chatting about it. Before we go there, why don’t we kind of talk about your background and how you became a real estate guy? What did you do beforehand, and how did you get started?

Glenn: Well I joined the army right out of high school.

Brandon: I take back my comment on the shirt.

Glenn: I joined the army, right out of high school. That was ’82, the recession going on back then too, so was in the army as an avionics mechanic, which is working on airplanes and adios and autopilots and things like that. I did that for a while, then I got out and worked for Boeing and for Delta and was an aircraft mechanic, but personality wise, didn’t really feel like that was the best fit, but I was just trying to make a living.

Josh: Yeah. Nice.

Glenn: So, a funny story about Delta airlines, I was 25 when I got there, and you know they got the uniform and the toolbox and you walk out on the flight line and you’re there with a guy that’s 65 and he’s got the same uniform, the same toolbox, and I honestly think that’s when the light kind of went “Ding!” This is your life! And that’s when my wheels starting turning. I didn’t plan real estate for a while after that, but that’s when the wheel started turning.

Brandon: Ok.

Josh: So how did you eventually kind of get there, you know?

Glenn: Well I was going to school, night school and trying to get farther ahead at work and you know white collar job, you know things like that in sales. You’re going to love this one, one of my co-workers told me about a book Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I read that in about 2003. So I read that, and I was like “Holy cow! I wonder if this guy knows my dad!” I mean, my dad’s the greatest guy in the world, but it’s exactly the same! You know, Depression-era mentality, and I was already trying to find the answer, financially anways, and it just really resonated with me. So I got all excited and did nothing for six months, but then I got my feet wet. My plan was to buy like one property a year, but you know after a while, you start seeing that, “Hey, you could really turn this into, no need for a job.” That’s why I got a little more excited as time went on. Plus you keep getting laid off, you know?

Brandon: Yeah.

Josh: Nice, nice. Well, that’s not nice, but yeah, I get you. The lay-off thing sucks. I’ve got, you know, we see that a lot amongst folks in the fam and it’s frustrating, and it happens to a lot of people, regardless of how skilled you are. You pick a job in an industry that’s shifting, or something’s happening and you find yourself in trouble. So you’re ready, you’ve been kind of bouncing around for the idea for six months, how did you jump in? How did you dive in?

Glenn: I decided that “Hey I like Florida, my sister’s moving from Tampa to Fort Meyers. I should buy a condo and rent it to her!”

Josh: OH! Good idea!

Glenn: Yeah! It was a terrific idea!

Josh: When was this?

Glenn: 2004? I did get her permission to tell this story though.

Josh: Okay, good!

Glenn: So she had a job, she’s getting transferred, and so I said “I’ll buy this little condo, by the golf course and rent it out to her, and you know, rent it out seasonally when she moves out and some day when I retire I can go use it.” So she moved in, and spent a couple of thousand dollars putting in ceiling fans and carpet and all that stuff, and then three months later, was picking my wife and I up at the airport, in tears saying “I quit my job today! I’m moving back to Tampa!”

Brandon: Yeah!

Glenn: Well at least, you can’t evict your sister. I didn’t have a lease, so we just worked together to get the place furnished up and that was the year they had four hurricanes, in 2004. Condo fees doubled. Special assessments, you know pretty much anything to run, I did. But over the next two years, I just kept it and rented it seasonally, and it doubled in value in a matter of a few years, and since I wasn’t smart enough to sell it…

Brandon: It dropped in value.

Glenn: It dropped in value. I still have it.

Josh: Oh there was a bubble wasn’t there? Was that what we were talking about? Oh yeah!

Glenn: I do tell people that was probably the worst mistake I made, you know I left a hundred something thousand dollars hanging out there. I did take out a line of credit, I was smart enough to do that, and I used that to buy four rental properties and I still have all of those today, and I still have the condo and it’s the only thing that loses money. But my credit’s in tact!

Josh: Yep!

Brandon: I think that’s one of the things that a lot of investors go through. I’ve been there. I have property, at least one I can think of that’s the same story. Well, I rented to my brother-in-law, and it’s a terrible property. It doesn’t give me a lot of money today, and I have a lot of problems with it. I don’t know, it got me to where I am today. It got me moving on, just like yours got you the line of credit that you were able to buy more properties with, which I would actually love to touch on that subject here maybe in a minute, but maybe I can ask you about the family thing first. Why is that typically not a good idea to rent to family or friends?

Glenn: Well because your one big tool in the toolbox, in your landlord toolbox, is evicting someone if you had to. And you have to keep peace. I didn’t ever sign a lease, because I figured, it’s my sister, she’s good for it! And she did pay her rent for three months, and I get to keep the improvements she made and we’re on great terms, but we’re on great terms because we didn’t have a big blow-out. So just going forward, and then you start reading books, and they say “Hey, you know that thing you did? Don’t do that!” So then, I would help anyone in the family and I’m always trying to get people to invest and read things, and friends and family, colleagues too, but I have not done any business deals with friends, or colleagues, so I just kind of keep that separate.

Brandon: You know the last friend that I rented to was this couple that I knew from growing up when I was a kid. They wanted to move out to my area, and so they said “Hey, do you have anything to rent?” and I said, “Actually, perfect! I have a property that you guys can rent for free, just take care of the place.” It was my apartment complex. I mean I love this couple to this day, they’re one of my favorite people in the world, but when they moved in I said, “There’s only really one thing I ask is that, please don’t move out in the middle of December,” which was like four months in the future. “Yeah! No problem!” So when did they move out? Middle of December. It didn’t get rented until March 1st, I think. It’s like that same thing, what am I going to do? I’m not going to lose a friendship over that, but it cost me a couple of grand!

Josh: Which is why you don’t get into those situations…

Brandon: Exactly. Yep.

Glenn: Right.

Josh: in the first place.

Brandon: The last time I ever did it was that couple. And again, I love that couple. You know if they’re listening, you guys rock! But,

Josh: You guys screwed me! Literally!

Brandon: You know it was a rough thing. She got pregnant, and moved home to be closer to family, because it was a difficult pregnancy.

Josh: Well that makes sense.

Brandon: Every reason in the world, but had that not been, it would have probably turned out a little different. They would have had a lease and they would have had responsibilities more, so anyway.

Josh: Nice, nice. Hey Glenn, and then I know Brandon, you had some other stuff you wanted to kind of get into, but you had mentioned some of the worst things happening to you with that condo, I just wanted to kind of dig in a little bit. You had talked about special assessments and some other stuff. Explain that, how does it work? I’ve talked about it a few times over the couple of years on the show, but it’s nice, I’ve got socked with some small ones when I was in condo, when I had a condo. I know some folks who have gotten really, just rocked by those things. So, tell me about your experience.

Glenn: The assessment is, it’s condo association collects a fee, the homeowner association dues, and they set money aside. So every year, they set aside 1/15th of a roof, what they think a roof would cost. And then 15 years from now the money’s squirreled away specifically for the roof, and every so many years for the paint, and so many years for this and that. So this was run really well, but if three or four years after replacing the roof, there’s a hurricane and it rips the roof off, not only do you have to utilize the money for the roof, but everybody needs a new roof, and the cost of that roof is twice what you were planning on, so they just take their cost and do it by the number of units and say, everybody write me a check.

Josh: And what if you don’t write them a check?

Glenn: I think they can put a lien on your property. But, just write the check.

Josh: But if you can’t, then that’s the problem. If you can’t, you know if you’re running thin, which most people do, right? Most people aren’t sec in a way with tons of cash just in case a special assessment comes up. I think that’s one of the big reasons I tell people to shy away from condos, because those things are scary. But at the same time, listen, you need cash to invest in buying whole property. You have to have some kind of cash, whether it’s yours, or a line of credit or some kind of access to cash, and if you don’t, you should not be in that business. You really, really need to make sure you have that, correct?

Glenn: That’s right, and a lot of people think you can buy properties with no, or low money down.

Brandon: Oh, boy! I believe I saw that book in your screen just a moment ago, see that’s what I thought. See? He’s just giving me a hard time! I’m a hundred percent, and that’s why I wanted to touch on what else you said there, is the line of credit thing, because that’s from that same kind of concept of creative investing. No, I actually agree 100%. You might be able to invest in real estate with low or no money down, but it doesn’t mean you can invest in real estate when you’re completely flat broke. I think I made that pretty clear in the first chapter, and you know hopefully people who read it will agree with me on that one because you have to have money for those things that come up, because they will come up.

I know somebody who got a house, what was the story? Now I don’t remember the exact details, and it was something like they bought a rental, and the very first month they had an eviction and it was a terrible eviction that took like nine months, and they destroyed the house in the process. And it was like $8,000 or $10,000 hit on their very first month with their very first rental. Those things are unlikely, but it happens, those things do happen. Again, even if you’re going to invest creatively, make sure you have some kind of resilience.

Glenn: We really have had one horror story, and it was similar to that. The lady wanted to rent the house, and I said, well I haven’t made my decision yet. She also painted, so like I said, I needed to have it painted, so I’ll pay you to paint the inside of the house, which involved me giving her a key, so here comes everybody! Cats included.

Josh: Really? Aw, man! I mean the cat part is really the freaky thing.

Glenn: Well, when I finally got rid of them, they abandoned the cat. My wife and I had to find a home for the cat.

Josh: You didn’t keep it?

Brandon: Come on Glenn, the cat guy?

Glenn: She’s allergic to cats and dogs.

Brandon: I’m allergic to cats and dogs!

Glenn: Is that right?

Brandon: Yeah! I suck it up.

Josh: Hey Glenn! Go ahead.

Glenn: I was just saying it was her call on that.

Brandon: Smart, smart.

Josh: So I want to kind of jump a little bit, because we’re talking about special assessments, we’re talking about condos, we’re talking about Florida. Florida is a place that scares me as a potential investment. I mean, it’s amazing, listen. People go there to die. You know, I’m from New York.

Brandon: I go there from Disney World. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Josh: I mean, if you’re from New York and you hit 55, you pretty much, you suddenly live in Florida, like it’s a law or something. You have to do it.

Glenn: Yeah, right.

Josh: I mean, you’re obviously not dead at 55. But Florida, you have those hurricanes, and those things can really wreak havoc, and so what’s your take on it? Have you bought other properties there? Obviously you got wacked by that one hurricane.

Glenn: What I did was, I did that, and I haven’t bought anything else there yet, even though when you’re looking at cash flow, and your condo association fee is 360 and you have a mortgage on top of that, it’s kind of tough to make money. What I learned, is that I really don’t think that buying something sight-unseen in Florida was, you know, anybody could write a check or do something like that. But the trick was saying okay, this isn’t going well, but I was still convinced that real estate was my means to an end, and so I told my wife, you know “By the second, third, fourth property is the trick.” I just say “Hey I know it’s going to work, and I’m not going to do this again, I need to go buy some boring stuff in Iowa that cash flows so I can go to Florida and hang out whenever I want.” We just changed gears. I realized the difference between speculation and buying for cash flow, and that was my one mistake.

Josh: Are you still, so you’re losing money on a monthly basis?

Glenn: I lose a few hundred dollars a month on that condo.

Josh: But you go and visit right?

Glenn: Well I go down and I’ll hang out for a few days, and do a little walk through and write the whole thing off, like anybody would, you know?

Josh: Interesting, interesting. Brandon mentioned his property, you’ve got this property. Both of you guys are holding onto properties that in a lot of ways are losers. I mean, these are properties that you guys are losing money on. For those folks who are listening, Brandon just said, why do you continue to do that? Like I could see doing that with your property, Glenn, if I were going to say, you know what I’m going to go out a couple of weekends, or I’m going to go out midweek for a couple of days a month and get the enjoyment out of the property. Is it because you guys are both emotionally tied to those properties, because they kind of helped you hop off? I’m just curious. And for those people listening, should other people do if they’re in a similar situation, should they do what your doing, or do you know that you shouldn’t do what you’re doing, and you just can’t get out. And I throw this to both of you guys.

Glenn: Well I’ll say this. The reason I kept it was because it was going up like, I mean it went, when it doubles in value in three years, you think and you look in the mirror and you see a real estate genius, right? So I was pretty excited about that, and then I was smart enough to think to get a line of credit for $90,000. That allowed me to buy four bread and butter properties here in Cedar Rapids. I just kind of look at it as sort of a portfolio, so that when the bubble burst and it went down, and you guys have heard of the concept of “under water?” Then I had a first and a second and I was upside down on it, and so I just, it was an interest only second, so I just kept it and consider that a cost to capital and you put that with the other four properties I bought, and I was making money, and that’s the goal.

Josh: So, Brandon, what’s your take?

Brandon: Well, I’m also under water, or at least at an even point, where it’s worth about what I owe, probably not, I’m probably a little under water. I don’t know. I would have to bring money to the table to get rid of it, which is a possibility. We considered that, knowing we call that our hell house, because we’ve had like five or six bad ones in a row, tenants that is. It just seemed to attract that type of person. So we had a choice, do we want to get rid of it, or do we want to give it to property management. We gave it to property management. That’s the one I talked about a couple of months ago as one of the two I handed off because, I lose, I actually break even on the cash flow on a rent versus mortgage.

The rent we get on that place is like 850 and my mortgage is 790? And then I think there’s, I think we pay water, or something like that. So we basically break even on that property, and then whenever there’s a tenant turnover, there’ s a couple thousand dollars whenever there’s a vacancy, or you know a repair that costs a little bit of money. I actually lose money on that, but I pay the mortgage down by several thousand every month. So in other words, right now, today it is a forced savings account. So 30, or 25, 24 years from now it will be paid off, and my tenant will have paid that mortgage for me, essentially, sort of.

Josh: I mean, this is a tough topic, and I’m not you know. I’m bringing this up because it’s an important thing. You guys are not alone on this. There’s a lot of people out there who are in a similar situation and they probably are. I’m guessing you guys have had that conversation with spouses or others, like “God, do we get rid of this thing, and it’s upside down, and it keeps kind of coming back. It keeps coming back, what do we do?” These conversations happen amongst other investors, guys, whoever’s listening, so you recognize a) you’re not alone in this situation and b) you know, everybody’s going to have their own kind of reasoning for what they do, and the question is, is your reasoning sound, or are you doing it because you’re emotionally attached?

I think if you’re doing it because of some kind of sound of reasoning, Brandon, forced savings account, it’s not the greatest reason, but it’s reason enough, right? Glenn, yours is that you get the opportunity to go down, write it off, go to Florida, work on the tan a little bit, cool! If you don’t have a reason, oh well, you know, should you be holding on still? If you were an outsider talking to you, would you say, hold on or get rid of it? Both of you guys.

Glenn: I’m at the point now where it’s back to about break even. But I have got a year round renter who has been there almost four years. He’s a white collar realtor type guy, you know? And he’s just low maintenance and he pays me sometimes two months at a time, if he’s going to be travelling and it’s just sitting there, and the market’s coming back. You know I’m not emotionally attached to it, but if I were someone else, and I had one money loser across the country and I could write a check of some sort and get out of it and move on, lesson learned, I probably would do that.

But a lot of people they take out those second mortgages and they went out and bought motorcycles and whatever else they bought with them and then it all collapsed and they bankruptcy and things like that. We just didn’t want to do that, and we realized we need to keep good credit while we’re building our portfolio, so we just sucked it up for a few hundred dollars a month, and just kept going, and now we’re back to where if we wanted to sell it, it would be no problem. It’s like the path of least resistance. I’ve got other things to do.

Brandon: Yeah. You know I think for me you could boil it down to a mathematical equation. If it costs me $10,000 to get rid of this property so I no longer have to deal with it. Essentially I’m saying I’m investing $10,000 of my cash in order to earn the $200 a month on average I’m losing on that property. $10,000, $200 a month, that’s 24% return on investment. Am I better off with a 24% return on investment off of paying that? Maybe? But if you add in appreciation on that, potential appreciation, or loan pay down, which is what I’m doing right now, it actually works out pretty well.

Josh: And I love that by the way.

Brandon: The mathematical look at it?

Josh: Well I don’t know if your math was right, I didn’t really pay attention to that.

Brandon: Yeah, I did that kind of quick.

Josh: But I think that’s awesome. That’s a really good calculus for how to figure it out. It’s going to cost you to sell, does that make sense?

Brandon: And I think, you know, one thing I tell people a lot when they screw up, not really screw up just they bought a deal early and it doesn’t turn out today very well, whether it’s market or whatever is use that as a springboard to do better next time. So if you buy a property that loses a $100 a month in cash flow, ok well use that lesson, and buy one that earns 200 in positive. So now you’re up by one. And then jumping back to what you said earlier, Glenn, I want to get to that topic of using a line of credit to buy another investment property. And so that’s what you did. Now back then, you could really easily get a line of credit on investment properties, it’s a little more difficult. Being that’s an entire chapter in my book, I figure I want to get your opinion on it. What are your thoughts on that? How does that even work? Maybe for my stupid simple standpoint, somebody who has never heard of that concept before, what have we been talking about?

Glenn: I have been getting lines of credit established. The best time anybody will tell you is to do it is when you don’t need it. Because if you go to them and say, “Hey I need a deal on this,” it just can’t happen fast enough. Get your lines set up before hand. Now that particular one, they gave me a $90,000 line of credit based on the equity in the condo. It was interest only and it was for 15 years or something, it was just really good terms. I used that to buy four properties, well when I got about to the fourth property, I was up to $72,000 and when the bank went, “Hey! Wait a minute. I don’t think we’re really secured on this loan.”

I was laughing because I was the one who gave you the money, but so I bought four bread and butter properties here in Cedar Rapids and I make money on every one of those, every month, except when there’s a new roof to put on, or something, which will happen, but so I just kept paying that minimum payment, minimum payment. Then one day I re-financed from 25% down to 15% down on basically the whole portfolio, and wound up with a bunch of cash, and just went back and paid off that line, so it’s gone.

Brandon: Nice.

Glenn: In the meantime, I’ve established other lines of credit and I actually use those to exercise, so I’ve got them there. If I’m using cash all the time, and I don’t exercise a line of credit, I’m afraid it will go away on me. So sometimes I’ll pay these people some interest to take, say $50,000, and put it towards a deal, and then a couple weeks or months later, re-finance it and then pay them back. Then I wait a little while, then I ask them for more money.

Josh: So is that a standard practice for those people who don’t know how lines of credit work? If say you get a line of credit for a hundred grand, you know they give it to you for five or ten years and year one and a half and you haven’t touched it, they might take it away, is that right?

Glenn: I think that’s true. I’ve been told and I’ve read that’s what you should do to keep it going and make it have them grow it, you know so you never know what you’re going to need the money for. It’s just better to have the access to it, so just throw them a little interest every now and then and just keep it so maybe some day, whether it’s a really big deal, you know, I’m in a position to do something about it.

Brandon: To see a real life example of how you can use a line of credit, this is something that just popped in my head this morning, honestly. You know I have a pretty decent amount of equity on my house. Not a massive amount, but I owe like $80,000 on my house and it’s worth about a hundred and fifty. With a good appraisal, about $70,000 in equity. Now, a bank might give me half of that. Let’s say I go out and take out $30,000 in a line of credit. What I’m hoping to do, and I think, is take that $30,000 and use that as a 20% down payment on my next house, or on a rental property, but I kind of want to move to a better, a little bit bigger house that I can, I don’t know, have a piano in. Because my wife plays piano.

So anyway, I might take that $30,000 line of credit go put that on a down payment as another primary residence for myself, and then have a house for no money down. It’s just another strategy, you can use a line of credit as a means to acquire a different property. Then from that one if I built some good equity into it, I can go get a line of credit on that one later on and then go do it to the next one. I mean you can kind of do that a number of times before you’re, you know,

Josh: Provided you have the income.

Brandon: Provided you have the income to get the loan. Yeah. And every time it gets more difficult, sort of.

Glenn: You should get a boat, or a motorcycle, or…

Brandon: Exactly! No, well and that’s actually a really good point so like a lot like you said earlier, a lot of people would do this over leverage thing, so they take all their money out and they’d invest in or they would buy cars or vacations or whatever. It’s the idea of taking out your asset, which is your equity and then buying a liability with it. It’s that whole rich dad, or cash flow quadrant thing of going the wrong direction with that. And moving on! Let’s get out of this!

Josh: Fascinating discussion!

Brandon: Yeah, yeah I love this stuff. How many deals do you currently, like how many properties do you own and what are they?

Glenn: The condo, and 27 single family homes.

Brandon: 27! That’s a good number of single family homes. Do you manage all… Go ahead.

Josh: Are all of those in Iowa?

Glenn: They are. I’ve dabbled a couple of times where I moved something out of state, somebody maybe endured the house, or a family member bought a house in Missouri and it was a foreclosure. But I’ve sort of refined my business model, just these one-offs here and one-offs there just doesn’t make as much sense, so I’m here to stay in Cedar Rapids. I have how many dozen properties over in Davenport, which is about an hour and 15 minutes away. In terms of emergency it’s a lot easier. My plan is to automate it a little bit more, you know empower people and get processes so that I don’t have to, I don’t fix anything unless it’s just obvious that, hey it’s something simple and I’m here and I have a screwdriver, I’ll put that doorknob back on for you, but if it’s anything else, I usually just have the handyman take care of it.

Josh: And what’s the average acquisition cost on properties in Iowa? And Davenport, isn’t that where the quad cities, or something? Isn’t that where?

Glenn: That’s correct. Yep. Yep.

Josh: A gambling mecca up there, right?

Glenn: I guess so. There are some casinos, but I try to stay out of them. But it’s too much fun.

Josh: Nice.

Glenn: I’d say, I’m looking for houses in the ninety to a 100K, maybe give or take a little bit. I have a few that are more like 150, 160, but I don’t like to get down into the two percent properties. We have a part of town where you can buy a $40,000 house and rent it out for $800 or $900, but the hassle-factor just isn’t worth it to me. I prefer, a little nicer properties, in a little nicer neighborhood and then renting it out like that. Your turnover is less, and it’s just like I said, a lot less hassle.

Brandon: I like that “hassle factor” I don’t think I’ve ever heard it phrased like that.

Glenn: Use it!

Brandon: I’ll write a book! The Hassle Factor! I mean that’s a discussion that’s very popular on the BiggerPockets blog. There’s a new post about that every month or so, usually Ben Leibovitch is behind it. He’s got several, why I don’t buy thirty thousand dollar junkers, or fixers, or whatever. Maybe, can we kind of expand on that a little bit more? What do you mean by hassle-factor?

Glenn: I rent mostly to companies or organizations, and I think I told you about that word, that it’s not an individual or a family. It’s an institution or a company where they provide services for people with special needs, so instead of dealing with “Hey I lost my job,” or “they cut my hours” or this or that, you know, or “Hey the roof’s leaking.” I buy a nice house, keep it maintained, not necessarily fancy, but then I rent to mostly to these companies who then kind of manage everything and so it’s like business to business communications, and everything’s with email, and it’s not a bunch of late night texts and phone calls and toilet’s stopped up and that sort of thing. I just, I’m like, I’m not the most ambitious guy in the world, so I’m not, you know.

Brandon: How did you even get into that? The idea…

Josh: Yeah, I mean we have got to talk to this, for sure.

Brandon: This seems much better! I mean my tenants are often a hassle. I mean I rent to the, not quite the $30,000 or $40,000 houses, the multi-families are kind of in that group, and they can be a hassle sometimes to deal with. The idea of renting to a company like this, and both me and Josh used to work in these industries. I used to do the overnight shift and that’s when I discovered real estate. I did the overnight shift at a group home. There was like, four developmentally disabled adults, and I did the overnight shift, and I was flipping through channels and watching flip this house, and that’s how this, kind of at the very beginning, it all started.

Josh: And I was teaching high school at a special ed school where a good number of our kids lived in group homes, and it was the same kind of thing, and the homes were owned. I don’t know if in our situation if the home’s were owned by the organization, the organization was running from an individual like yourself, but I think it’s a fascinating model. Really quickly on the hassle factor, I think the hassle factor takes into account like, lower income properties you’re going to have a higher turnover, higher evictions, potentially greater odds of damage, that kind of stuff.

Brandon: More phone calls.

Josh: More phone calls.

Brandon: Yeah.

Josh: But you’re talking about even taking it a step further. You’re not even dealing the hassle factor on the blue-collar, less drama, less drama thing. You’re talking like, least possible drama! I’m going straight to a business entity who has got a level of professionalism that is going to supposedly considerably higher. How did you fall into that?

Glenn: My wife, after several years of investing in real estate, she decided to quit her job and become a realtor. She thought that would be a nice partnership, you know? So, she’s still a realtor today and one of her colleagues was on the board at one of these non-profit organizations and they were having issues with several of the houses, they had like two dozen houses, and four of them they weren’t happy with for some reason or another. It could be that folks had been there so long that they can’t do stairs any longer, it could be landlords raising the rent, whatever the issue is. So I used that line of credit to buy four houses in 2008, so I bought four houses for that institution in 2008 and basically they would say, this group of guys needs to be near a bus line, and you know they go to take the bus and they go someplace every day.

Another house they might say, that doesn’t matter to us, but we can’t have stairs. You might, or we’ve got, you might even have to remove a gas stove and put in an electric stove, because they don’t feel like it’s safe to have a gas one. So whatever their special needs are, they tell me what the requirements are, and then I go out and find houses. My wife and I, we go out and find the house and then we give them a short list that meet our requirements, that meet their apparent needs, and then we say ok “what about this one, or what about this one.” And then they say, “Yeah, this would be great, we’re in the great shape to rent.” And then I buy the house, and then they move in. I’ve only had one house where they’ve moved out since March of 2008, when I bought the first one. I don’t interview the people that are actually going to be living in the house. I don’t deal with applications or background checks or any of those things.

Josh: Wow! This is what I’m talking about! This is called easy breezy landlording, man!

Glenn: I told you that I wasn’t that ambitious!

Josh: Wow! So now, you said 27 houses so far. So are all those now filled by folks from this organization, or others?

Glenn: Well, 25 of the 28 properties are rented to some sort of organization.

Josh: No kidding.

Glenn: I’m dealing with five different organizations now. So we started with the one, and then we bought a fifth one for them the next year. Then I got laid off somewhere in the middle of all of that, and then we, a couple of years went by and we just picked up one here, one there, for regular, you know, we just found a good deal, so we bought it. Then I started saying, I’m comparing notes between, mentally, between dealing with this company, and dealing with individuals, you know and I think I like this better. Then I started networking a little bit and started finding other organizations that might have similar needs. These people all know each other, because it’s an industry. They go to the same trainings and things like that. So you start networking and getting referrals and hopefully develop good reputations and the next thing you know, you can say, “Hey, customer! Company A. I work with Company B, C and D.” Drop a few names, and they can check your references if they want, and they can feel comfortable letting you help them with their housing needs.”

Josh: Great idea! Really, really great idea!

Glenn: Don’t tell anybody!

Josh: Yeah! Apparently. Nobody’s listening, nobody’s listening. This is the Josh and Brandon show. We have my mom listening. And Brandon’s wife. But yeah!

Brandon: Ha! She stopped a long time ago Josh.

Josh: Yeah, so did my mom! You’ve got these organizations, the rent checks come in regularly. Have you had any challenges with tenants? Or is that not even an issue because the organization deals with them? They kick them out and they’ll throw somebody else in if there’s an issue, or how does that work?

Glenn: They deal with the tenants. I mean, I interact you know if I go over there. They get to know you. Like there’s one that’s literally four or five houses down, so if it’s anything simple, I go and check It out myself it’s just so convenient. But they don’t have to fill out applications, the individuals. I rent it to the institution, so the company is responsible. Actually all but one check, everything else is electronic. I literally get electronic funds transfer for five rents for this company, and here’s 14 for this one, and here’s you know? So I don’t even have to collect checks. So, as far as managing what’s going on, they handle all the issues, because I’m not a caregiver, I have no opinion on that. There are instances where depending on the level of function level of the tenant, they might have outbursts, and punch a hole in the wall and that sort of a thing, so we just have a standing agreement, don’t tell me about it, just fix it. Don’t bother me. So they know, if they damage it, they need to fix it, so they just take care of it.

Brandon: That’s a thing to ask! I mean, when I was in that industry, there were things breaking all of the time. Some of the clients were just, I mean they were just violent. One of the guys would just break his window all the time. I mean, again, if you just have that, you know.

Glenn: There’s an upside to that.

Brandon: Yeah, I mean they take care of it.

Glenn: My son has a house that he rents to the same, like the same customer and one guy kept breaking out the windows, when he broke the window, they literally broke every window in the house. The company came back and had to put in all new windows. Well you can’t put in old crappy wooden windows.

Josh: Unbreakable windows.

Glenn: Yeah! So they’d put in nice double paned, vinyl windows. And they’d knock holes in the door, so they would go get solid oak doors, so they couldn’t do that anymore. You know, it’s fully renovated that house for them. But that's really an outlier. Most of them are either not like that at all. You always talk about the horror stories.

Brandon: Yeah, exactly!

Glenn: Usually it’s just month after month of getting paid and dealing with small maintenance issues that I usually have someone else do, so.

Brandon: Okay. How do you find deals? I mean how do you find these properties? Just because your wife’s an agent? Or are you MLF, or do you do anything fancy like that?

Glenn: This is a complete 180 out of phase of what people are doing as normal investors. Instead of finding the good deals, somehow, and then going out and finding a tenant, I mean we start with the tenant, and the layout, the location, everything. So one of the downsides, is I pay retail pretty much for everything. But you can still use investor principals, I want to tell you about the last deal I did, where I was trying to find a house in a different town, I listed it down the road. Very expensive. So I found one that was very dated, it was stained, and it was $99,000. And I had been looking for a three bedroom, but I couldn’t find anything that was affordable, so I took the people that work for that company over to the house, and I said, now “Imagine fresh paint. And imagine updated fixtures and carpet and new vinyl and some appliances, and so this is the second time I had done that for them. So they said okay. It took me a month, well you know. I just wrote the checks and said, yeah we’re going to do this this and this. We had the guys do it, and we actually got the house for 85k, because we did cash, and put about $10,000 in carpet and paint and fixtures and things like that. And that’s $95,000, and it appraised for $126,000. I went to the bank, and I got a loan for, it could have been up to a hundred, but I just said give me the $95,000 I got in, so then I got a mortgage for $95,000, and then I have $31,000 of equity, a satisfied tenant where everything was fresh and new on the inside. I really was starting to pocket no money.

Brandon: Love it.

Glenn: Yeah, I like to talk about those, because just to say hey, I’m going to the end of the bust to pay top dollar for, it’s not very impressive you know?

Josh: What about rent? Are they paying market rent? Or are they paying slightly above, because you kind of have to go a little bit above and beyond to make the property friendly. You’re really, you’re kind of like a personal shopper so to speak, for people, right? I mean you go and “hey we need this kind of property with these things.” And “Okay! I’ll get it for you.”

Glenn: I’m going to say it’s market rent. But that’s, I’m within a $100 of market rent on any house. The last thing that you want to do is look like you’re taking advantage of these non-profits, you know? So it’s always like a thumb in the air, will this be a $1000, or a $1050 or $975, you know that kind of thing? It’s a nice niche, and then if you charge a fair rent, keep the house nice, you get good referrals, you eliminate vacancy, you eliminate turnover and you know that sort of thing. That’s worth something to me. So, I’m not necessarily making more money in higher rent, but I’m making it and I just, when I got to a bank and I say I have 28 properties and I haven’t had a vacancy in five years, so I have to show them my tax returns, you know. I have to explain it every time.

Josh: I think most investors would call you on BS on that one too! And it’s true. I love it! I mean this is really really a cool strategy, a cool niche. You know there’s not a lot of room for competition. I mean how many people can come into your town and take over. You know, not a lot of people. That’s the cool thing about focusing on that niche and starting to own it. I’m assuming there’s opportunity around the country for other folks listening to do something like this, but they better not show up in Davenport, or they’ve got an Army General to go after.

Glenn: Well I was a Sergeant, but still.

Josh: Oh, well close enough.

Glenn: They do all of the work. It is a bit of a risk. I had to think about that, whether I wanted to go public with what I’m doing, because I kept it really quiet for a long time. I think after you’ve been doing it long enough and you’ve got a good reputation and you can get referrals. If you said, “Hey, I heard this is a good deal, and you went to my customer and said I want you to start moving people, because I ant to collect the rent.” If they’re not unhappy, they’re not going anywhere! Now if people want to do this other places, it’s one of the reasons I wanted to do the podcast to encourage people to keep an open mind when they’re dealing with an organization like this, because it’s a horse of a different color and you don’t really understand “Hey! Where do you work? Let me see your W2. What’s your credit score?” You know it doesn’t really fit into that box. It’s got some tremendous upsides.

Josh: Well and, you’re doing good to society as a whole too, which is really one of the coolest parts of it.

Brandon: Yeah

Glenn: Altruistic, I don’t know. I’ll let you say that.

Brandon: That’s cool. I like it. I have, my in-laws actually, have a duplex and one of the units they rent out to a religious organization of missionaries, right? So they move new people in every, I think it’s four to six months or whatever. But they have a contract with the religious organization and they haven’t had a vacancy in three or four years. Never any problems, it’s just flawless. And I’m very jealous of that rental that they have. It’s just the easiest, easy-breezy as you put it Josh, landlord experience. It definitely is a cool niche to invest, or landlording to companies that then rent it out to somebody else.

Josh: Fantastic.

Glenn: Another downside for an investor, if you want to grow your business really fast, you may not have the opportunity in your area because there just may not be enough people to work with. So maybe in addition to your investing strategy? As opposed to, anyone jumping in with both feet. It’s taken a while to kind of put this together, but now I’m full time as of the first of the year.

Brandon: Cool! I was just about to ask that.

Josh: Congrats!

Glenn: Yeah I wasn’t even working a full time job when I had a full time job. I was working from home as like an account manager in aerospace, so I had plenty of time to switch back and forth between my work email and my Hotmail and my podcast and sit on my front porch and listen to my podcast and watch cars go by. You know I love it. It was a good job and it was a good company, and it was a very amicable departure, but I was just at the point you know I’m not excited about that anymore.

Josh: Fantastic. Thank you. Really really cool stuff. Well I think it’s time to move forward. Brandon?

Brandon: It is! It is time for the fire round! Which is sponsored by the BiggerPockets live webinars, hosted weekly by me. That's right! If you’ve not attended one of my weekly webinars, you are missing out my friends! Last week we talked about how to quit your job to the power of real estate. This week we’re talking about how to find finance and analyze deals and who knows what we’ll be talking about next week. Well! You can find out what we’re going to be talking about by going to BiggerPockets.com/webinar and signing up there! And we’ll continually update that page with the newest webinar. Again that is BiggerPockets.com/webinar And with that, let’s get to the fire round!

It’s time! For the FIRE ROUND!

Brandon: All right these questions for the fire round come straight from the BiggerPockets forums, and we’re going to fire them at you Glenn. Are you ready? Can you handle the heat?

Glenn: I’m ready!

Brandon: All right. Number one. What are some key factors real estate investors look for in homes? Like, what makes run-down homes valuable, bedrooms, location, etc? What should an investor look for to provide value?

Glenn: I think it varies by market, obviously. That’s a cop out. For instance, the house I was just telling you about, the deal, which was like a no money down deal, I saw that there was a bedroom, or there could be a bedroom in the basement. It had the window and the foundation. The rest was just some drywall and a vent and light fixture, so it would turn a three bedroom into a four bedroom and that’s how I was able to get that much equity. So looking for some equity like that is a good way of doing it. You know somebody was just asking me about a two bedroom, and I would just stay away from two bedrooms if there were three bedrooms to buy. Just try to find houses that have the most utility that aren’t made, or are a little under loved, and fix them up a little bit.

Brandon: I love that. And what you said there, going from like two to three, or three to four, especially two to three, if there’s that third bedroom, that’s the number one thing I look for in a property, is if it says two bedroom, I see if there’s a way to make it three. Because that adds so much value, in my neighborhood anyway.

Glenn: And if possible, even if the organization is saying hey this group couldn’t do stairs, I still look for a slab, because maybe the next person that moves in or takes someone’s place does have a stair problem So I try to look for the most utility.

Brandon: Smart. I love that.

Josh: Right on, right on. When working with a foreclosure, how do you find out which bank owns the property?

Glenn: I’ve bought a few like that, but there was a sign in the yard and it says, call this person, and I know that person, it’s a person who does a lot of foreclosures.

Josh: Let me ask a better question!

Brandon: Yeah, because you hardly ever know who the bank is, you know the real estate agent who is selling it. But typically, the bank, the only way I know to find it is to call, or look up in the county records or you can call the real estate agent and say, which bank is this?

Glenn: I was just looking at one that had a sign in the yard, no sign yet. And so I found that and I looked that it said something about Wells Fargo. So I called Wells Fargo, so the gave me the REOwellsfargo.com and you can look at their properties, but I still never figured out who owned it, because they said, well we’re managing it for someone else. So I’d be interested to find out what, I can’t answer that.

Brandon: I found that out as well. There were a few properties that I found I could not find out who owned it, like who ultimately owned. It’s possible. But I think the crux of the question was the second half of it.

Josh: I didn’t understand the damn question.

Brandon: Should you even contact them? Are you supposed to contact the bank to negotiate a foreclosure, or should you just work through the real estate agent? I’m guessing that was their jist.

Glenn: Well I’ll answer it this way. I always just use the real estate agent.

Brandon: Me too.

Josh: And as a head’s up, since we’re talking about this, about eight or nine years ago, I think nine, maybe ten, I started a directory of banks that offer REO listings, so you can literally go directly to the banks website and see what properties that they have available for sale, and

Brandon: Problem is now, that most of those websites say talk to your real estate agent, or talk to this real estate agent.

Josh: Which a lot of them do, but you can still kind of access, and say, oh okay, here’s REOs and obviously there’s properties don’t have any liens on them, so yeah. Not necessarily good deals, but you know odds of finding something are decent. You can find that at BiggerPockets.com/REO. BiggerPockets.com/REO where we’ll have a link on the show notes at BiggerPockets.com/show110

Brandon: Perfect! All right, next question! What is the difference between assessed value and appraised value on a property?

Glenn: The assessed value is what the city or county wants to base their taxes on, so that’s the assessed value. But the market value, or what it would appraise for, those are two different things too. Theoretically, it’s pointing to, you get an appraisal and it should be what the market value is. It could be above or below the assessed value. But the house I live in now was assessed at $50,000, at least $50,000 more, it was at $195,000, and we bought it for $125,000, and we had them come out the day we bought it and they lowered it $50,000, so our taxes went down about $1200 dollars a year, $100 a month. So it can vary, and vary wildly. But the credit union that I was using was letting me use the assessed value, and the assessed value was better than the purchase price. So I’ve done some very low money down deals, I think that guy’s boss has caught on.

Josh: That’s a really good tip there, which is you know, hitting up the assessor and letting him know and kind of fighting for the valuation, because it’s a really good tip there. Go and see your assessor and fighting the valuation, because you can actually negotiate it down. I think there is something that a lot of people didn’t know that they can do, so if you were not aware, definitely keep that in mind going forward.

Brandon: I know in my area our assessed values are way lower than our property values. And they do that because, I don’t know why they do that. I think it’s because they don’t want people calling and complaining. So my house is assessed at like, I think $60,000 right now, or like $50,000, even though I paid, well I paid like $60,000 and then I fixed it up and whatever else, but like it’s worth like $150,000. Typically a half to even a third of what the actual value is, which is crazy, but then what I find is that certain banks will only go off the assessed value. So I go to the bank and I say, well I want a loan on my house, and they’re like ok, it looks like the assessed value is $50,000, that’s the only number we will use. And I’m like but that doesn’t, I mean that’s ridiculous. They only use that number just to base taxes off of, that’s it. And I can’t convince, I mean it’s usually the big national banks that have done that to me.

Josh: Which is why you should work with primary lenders and local banks.

Glenn: That’s exactly what I do. I wouldn’t deal with a big bank like that. They just have so many rules, and if you’re keeping the loan in house, they have a lot more flexibility as to how they do it.

Brandon: I love portfolio lenders for that reason. Anyway, last question.

Josh: All right Glenn, last question. Not a question I would ask you, but I’ve been told I have to.

Brandon: This is the most popular question in the forums of this week.

Josh: You know some people like asking, and answering and others it’s none of your damn business, so, what kind of car do you drive and why? Is it new, used? And how does this play into your investing?

Glenn: I actually bought a truck, so you know when I first, well I just feel like it was a better fit, because I did have a 325 vibe, bright red that I was driving around and then we would go to a rental property and I would tell them they couldn’t have a new whatever, and then I’d tried to get a shovel out of my back seat and put the thing in the, you know what I mean? It just kind of sent the wrong message, and it wasn’t very utilitarian, so I drive a 2012 Toyota Tundra.

Brandon: I love Tundras. I want a Tundra. Anyways, it was a fascinating discussion. It was 168 comments right now of what car do you drive and why. It was just a fascinating discussion on, I don’t know, what people spend their money on investing wise. Check it out people, I’ll put a link to it in the show notes. Moving on.

Glenn: By the way, I don’t own that truck. The LLC does, but they just let me drive it.

Brandon: There we go! We talked about that last week with Scott, the attorney, about putting tings into LLCs and all that. If people haven’t listened to that one, make sure you check that show out. It was fascinating. It’s BiggerPockets I think show, 109. All right moving on! We are going to the world famous.

Famous four!

Brandon: All right these questions we ask everyone. I know you listen to our show Glenn, so you know what’s coming. Number one, what is your favorite real estate book?

Glenn: I haven’t read it yet! It’s right here in my lap!

Brandon: What book is that, Glenn?

Josh: For the people who are listening to the Podcast??

Glenn: It’s a brand new book.

Brandon: Oh nice! Which they can get at BiggerPockets.com/nomoney

Glenn: Just a shameless plug for you!

Brandon: Thank you! Now I don’t have to do it!

Glenn: Well everything goes back to the Rich Dad, Poor Dad book, which I try to get people to read, but just as a place to start. I used to buy those books used and give them to people and they would never comment on it, so I just quit doing that. You know, help yourself. So. I just finished one that was very tedious, it was How I Turned a Thousand into a Million in Real Estate in my Spare Time. It was 500 pages, and if you needed proof that it couldn’t be done, he’ll show you every number.

Brandon: That was Nickerson right? I love that book.

Glenn: Nickerson! Yeah.

Brandon: I love that book. It is a longer book, but I really like that strategy. He’s got kind of that trading-up thing that I’m a big fan of, the hybrid investing, I call it. All right. Cool. Josh?

Josh: About business. What is your favorite business book and why?

Glenn: You know I don’t usually read business books more than once, and it’s usually required reading in a class or something. But I did, there was one called The Goal, which I don’t think I’ve heard anyone mention, G O A L, the Goal.

Josh: Who’s that one by?

Glenn: Goldtratt? It’s like from ’84, and it’s about the theory of constraints, so it’s more of a process management, program management, like you’re running a factory kind of thing. But it talks about constraints and it uses Socratic reasoning and things. I don’t know it was just interesting to me, even though I’m a sales guy.

Brandon: I love new book suggestions.

Josh: What about hobbies? What do you do for fun?

Glenn: Well, the training for the…

Josh: What are we training for?

Glenn: Training for marathons in my mints and meetings keeps me…

Josh: So, wow, hard to know if that’s the wise-ass Glenn McCrorey. If I’m saying your name right. Now, what do you really do?

Glenn: Now, I’m not a mensa guy.

Josh: I’m not doubting that you’re a mensa guy! You’re the one with the cool parties.

Glenn: You didn’t have to ask about the running part, I’m kind of hurt. Actually, I’m doing less and less with work. Work wasn’t really that time-consuming, so real estate is kind of like my hobby. I really enjoy it, and it’s one of those, if you do what you love, you never work. So real estate is kind of my hobby, now that being said, golf, cigars you name it, I find lots of fun things to do. We spend a month down in Florida, my wife and I, this past winter.

Brandon: Nice.

Glenn: Where I called my boss and I told him, I quit.

Brandon: From Florida! By the way, here’s a picture on Instagram

Glenn: I really did.

Brandon: My parents are in Florida right now. They’re in their mid-fifties, just like Josh said. They’re going there, they’re not living there though, they’re on vacation. But yeah, they’re going for a month. So I guess that’s what you do when you’re older.

Glenn: Unencumbered.

Brandon: Unencumbered, yes! All right, my final question. What do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give-up, fail or never get started?

Glenn: I think it’s two things. I think first of all, you have to have a reason to want to change your life. And you know, real estate was kind of the, it was the answer to the equation. It wasn’t like “Hey I want to get into real estate.” It was, “Here’s where I’m at, and I think I know where I’m going, and how can I change that.” So I kind of used the big pile theory, and you know everybody put their money in a pile and it finally got to some people in real estate, and I thought, hey that seems like something I think I can do. I can’t inherit, and I can’t be the CEO of a large corporation or something, and so I really started focusing on real estate.

So you have to have a reason to want to change your life. Secondly, when you realize, when you see like in this William Nickerson, you can do it, it’s not rocket science, you just kind of start doing it and do it. You know, really believe that that's going to work. Anyways that’s kind of what I think. You have to have an impetus to get started, and then you have to stick to it. When you rent your condo to your sister you need to pick yourself up and go buy property number two and number three and try not to make the same mistake over and over again.

Josh: Right on. Fabulous, man. That’s great, and we know you’re not going to make that mistake again. You didn’t have to plug it twice, I mean maybe your sister gave you permission, but you took it a little far there, Glenn.

Glenn: I’m just saying, stick with it you know! I have other mistakes, we just didn’t get to those!

Josh: Awesome! All right man! Where can people find out more about you, where can they find you?

Glenn: Professionally, I would just say BiggerPockets. I get on there a few times a week and listen to almost all of the podcasts, so I’m on there quite a bit. I’ve, well when I put the I’ve quit my job post, I got a lot of traction on that one. Anyone who just said congratulations I didn’t respond to, but anyone who had questions I tried to answer every one of them.

Josh: Right on.

Glenn: I like to help.

Brandon: Cool! That’s great. And people can connect to you if they go to the show notes at BiggerPockets.com/show110. We’ll have a link to your profile they can send you a call or request and get to know you a little more there.

Glenn: Great! Perfect. Thanks for having me on!

Josh: Thank you so much for being on the show! We really really do appreciate, and again I love the idea, I think it’s great, this whole renting to organizations as a means for avoiding the hell factor, or the I forget what you called it…

Glenn: Hassle factor.

Brandon: Hassle factor! That’s great that’s great. Thanks again Glenn! We’ll see you around!

Josh: All right guys that was Glenn McCrorey, making all kinds of moves buying real estate that is managed by corporations and tenanted by corporations. It’s just a really cool idea.

Brandon: It is a very cool strategy. I really want to like, I think I’m going to go make some phone calls. I know a lot of the group homes in my area. I’m just going to ask them, “Hey are you guys looking for any new properties?”

Josh: Not a bad idea!

Brandon: It’s a two minute phone call and you never know what might happen.

Josh: There you go! Great, great great. There’s your action to take today, right guys? Try that out! Do the same thing.

Brandon: Yep! Do it!

Josh: Awesome. All right guys. Listen, thanks for being a part of our world, thanks for listening to the show! Show notes again at BiggerPockets.com/show110 If you’re not already on BiggerPockets.com, jump on and you get to hang out and spend time with guys like Glenn who are making things happen every single day. These are movers and shakers and doers, so get out there and connect and otherwise, you know, let us know if there’s anything we can do to help you out at BiggerPockets. Jump on the forums and ask us. We’re happy to help out. Thanks for being a part of our world, thanks for listening to the show, and we will catch you next time on the world famous…

Josh & Brandon: BiggerPockets podcast!

Josh: Aren’t you signing off?

Brandon: Signing off!

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