BiggerPockets Podcast 027 with Jason and Katherine Grote Transcript

Link to show: BP Podcast 027: Fix and Flipping, Wholesaling, Marketing, and More with Jason and Katherine Grote

Josh: This is the BiggerPockets Podcast, Show 27.

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Josh: What is going on, Ladies and gentlemen? Hi, I am Joshua Dorkin, your host of this, the 27th episode of the Bigger Pockets Podcast, here with my good friend and cohost, Brandon Turner. Hey Brandon.

Brandon: Hey Josh, it’s good to be back in the state of Washington and you again.

Josh: Really, where were you?

Brandon: Well, if you would have listened to last weeks podcast, I was going to San Francisco.

Josh: Ah, there you go, what were you doing in San Francisco.

Brandon: Alright, so I went to the Inman Connect Conference, I mentioned it last time. It was awesome. It was I—very cool, I was meeting a lot of people, real estate agents, and people in the industry so. Yes, learned some cool stuff. I saw some robots on stage.

Josh: Nice, robots. I know you’re writing a little piece on your experience there correct?

Brandon: I already have that.

Josh: Or you’ve written one by the time this goes live, right?

Brandon: Correct, yes, that should be out. If not, it will be out this afternoon. It’ll be there.

Josh: Yes, yes, the part about the robot. It’s a little bit strange, a little interesting and you know those of you who are listening, can check out the show notes and we’ll have a link to the—to Brandon’s article on it. I guess, people, instead of doing a—tours—are now using robots to do the tours because they don’t want to walk around houses?

Brandon: Yes, that’s the idea is that these little robots can do a house tour for you, but I don’t think it’s going to take off. Anyway, there’s going to be a video on that page as well so yes, show notes, You can see a link to that and yes, come check out the robots.

Josh: Awesome, awesome, well, so we’ve got a really cool show ahead today and in it we’re talking with Jason and Katherine Grote. They are real estate investors and professional homebuyers in the greater Austin area. They’re currently working in the short term residential investing, fix and flips, wholesaling, and actually, they are moving into buy and hold and we’ll talk to them in just a minute. Before we do, we want to do our Quick Tip.

Brandon: Quick Tip.

Josh: For today’s Quick Tip, Brandon what—we’re we going to—we’re going to talk about our brand new calculators and analysis tools, weren’t we?

Brandon: Yes, we are. We just released them this week. They’re—if you are a house or if you want to be a house flipper or if you are a wholesaler or if you want to be a wholesaler, that’s what these are for. Basically, they are analysis tools right on BiggerPockets that kind of connect to your account so you can go in there, you can enter in all the information about a property, as much or as little as you can or want and it’ll shoot out a nice analysis for you and tell you, kind of give you a good estimate of how much you’re actually going to make on the property. It accounts for all of the facts and figures, not just, you know, I a house for 50, and I put 20 into it and now I’m selling if for a hundred. You know, it’s more complicated than that, but in a really easy to use way so.

Josh: That hold and cost, all sorts of rather.

Brandon: Yes.

Josh: Really, it’s awesome.

Brandon: Fees, taxes. Yes. It’s pretty cool.

Josh: Then the nice thing about it is it also prints out a fancy, shmancy, report, which you can use to hand to a hard money lender, if you’re looking for financing. It’s great. We just launched that couple days ago and you can find a link to it on BiggerPockets. If you go to, go to our blue nav bar and you’ll see the analyze drop down menu and you’ll see investment calculators there. Just go there and you’ll see a suite of calculators and analysis tools. We’ve got a couple more in the works including a wholesaling calc, and a buy and hold calculator/tool so keep an eye out for those and definitely jump in and check out the fix and flip analysis and reporting tool. The 70% rule of calculator that are currently live and of course, we’ve got a quick and dirty mortgage calculator on there as well. Not such a quick Quick Tip, but.

Brandon: It’s important.

Josh: It’s an important new tool on and since we are talking to fix and flippers today, we thought it would be fairly relevant to discuss. Really quick, before to that one last thing. Podcast, thank you so much to everybody who’s been listening, the show’s going great. We’ve actually got 334 review/ratings, 324 of which were five star and we’ve got 210 awesome customer reviews from you guys on iTunes. Thank you very much to everybody who’s left us one and if you haven’t left us one already, please do jump on iTunes and leave us a review and a rating. That’s pretty much it. With that all said, let’s jump into the show. We’ve got a fantastic interview as I already said—coming with Jason and Katherine Grote. Hey guys, how’s it going?

Jason: Thank you, glad to be here.

Katherine: Thanks, it’s good to be here.

Brandon: Awesome, thank you.

Josh: Yes, yes, alright guys well let’s jump right into this and talk about what kind of investing do you guys actually do.

Jason: We are primarily, fix and flippers. We buy houses, remodel them, and then get them back from the markets, either we will do a live rehab and do what we call a wholetail or we’ll do a major rehab and we just call that a full retail/rehab. We also are moving back into buy and hold.

Josh: What is a wholetail?

Jason: A wholetail is a mix between a full retail/rehab where you take it and you’re pressing the comps getting top dollar for the house, doing a full remodel, making a really nice. It’s a mix between that or actually you’re just putting it on the open market, on the MLS, the realtor, but you’re not doing much with it so it’s basically, just lipsticking it and putting it on the market, which works in a hot market like we’re in right now, primarily.

Josh: Okay, okay, cool so let’s go back and start at, you know, that’s where you guys are today, how did you get started, how did you guys get into the field of real estate and real estate investing and obviously you guys worked together, which is why we’ve got the two of you here correct?

Katherine: Yes.

Jason: Yes. Well, our first stab was back in 2000, it was a terrible stab. It was poor marketing. We did a direct marketing campaign and it flopped. We put out about 3,000 postcards, got five calls in no deals. We hung it up for about six years and we were watching Flip That House and we just said I was with my dad and I said, “Dad, we can do this.” He said, “Well, go find me two houses, son.” I did, within 30 days, and they’re the largest projects I’ve done to date. They were monsters and I knew nothing about construction.

Josh: Nice.

Jason: Those two flips, those two rehabs, took a year and four months to turn.

Brandon: Wow.

Josh: Wow.

Jason: To rehab.

Brandon: Wow.

Josh:: You know, that’s actually a funny pattern I see in a lot of flippers is that you’d think like you’d start small and get bigger, but most of them start way too big and then get smaller. That’s a lesson for new people.

Jason: I think the reason is, is because it’s easier to find properties that are totally messed up and the longer, you do it, you become, a little more accessible—you have more access to just better, you know flip properties that take less work and can make a better margin.

Katherine: Let me jump in here really quick. The interesting thing about that though is that those two projects although were extremely difficult, it was this learning curve. We learned everything there is to learn about construction and rehab and flip. When he drove me up to one of the properties. I remember driving up and you could see through the house because there were walls missing and windows and I was like, are you kidding me? What? This is the house and so we learned a lot about that and I think for a lot of flippers what happens is when they get projects like this. You know, they lose their shirt, they flip out, they you know, no pun intended, and you know they completely, just they’re like “Oh, I can’t do this.” They bail out, but for us, you know, we’re both entrepreneurial minded, we both own businesses. I think we just dug our heels in and his parents are also involved in the business. It’s the four of us.

Josh: Okay.

Katherine: We just dug out heels in and just said no, we’re going to do this and so it really just inspired us to move forward at that point.

Josh: Now, did you guys make money on those? I mean you held them a long time. I mean, the longer, obviously, to those people listening who may not have a lot of experience, the longer you hold onto a flip, the smaller profit margins become.

Jason: Yes, that’s in fact this is a funny story. The first one we did, we put 70,000 into the house and we literally sold it. The house for what we had in it so we broke even, but the caveat was that we had—it was two lots so we sold the empty lot right next to it that came with the original house for $22,000 and that was our profit.

Josh: There you, there you go. Nice and really quick, let’s talk about that marketing campaign that was an absolute failure six years earlier. You had gotten five leads and why did those just not work out? Was it inexperience? What could you guys have potentially done differently if you looked back today as somebody who’s experienced?

Jason: Honestly, I have looked back and they were just bad leads. I mean they were just—they weren’t good. I remember one of them, they had no equity. The other one was this convoluted family affair. I think the family was going through a divorce and the house was a mess and the titling of it was a mess and we gave it a good shot. We got in there and we built a relationship with the family, but they just eventually did something else and the other one I don’t think I even made it to the door.

Josh: Got you.

Jason: I just think, yes, some, lack of experience, but the area where I sent the card out to and the cards themselves were terrible.

Josh: Okay, but had you guys continued marketing, yes, eventually, a lead would have come through that might have worked, but maybe you know, it was just. At that time, it was kind of just too tough, right?

Jason:Yes, it just took the steam out of us and.

Josh: Yes.

Jason: We didn’t know about. We didn’t know anything about marketing that you know, the more you send it out, the, you know, the better the return is. We didn’t know any of that stuff. We really knew nothing.

Josh: Yes, and so that’s great advice again for those folks listening. You got to stick with it. You got to find a good market, you got to farm a good area, and you know, you probably want to target those kinds of leads that you have the best shot of working with. Right? In your case, maybe that divorce that was kind of messy. That was kind of tough right? If you know, I guess would have recommendations for somebody starting on what kind of leads to market to. That might be the easiest.

Jason: Yes, I like you hear over and over, the high equity leads are going to be the easiest because you’re not going to have to deal with a bunch of you know, convoluted stuff. Basically, you’re going to have people that have equity. It’s just a matter of buying the property correctly so that’s probably the best thing. Even, you know, out of town leads, you know, landlords and stuff like that. They’re great too because they’re usually know real estate a little bit. They’re easy to deal with. That’s the most common direct marketing leads from what I’ve heard is those to the high equity and non-resident homeowner—those are non-resident owner.

Brandon: Yes, that makes sense so you mentioned earlier that you guys, you flip houses, but you’re also doing a little bit more buy and hold. I’m wondering why did you start flipping houses, why have you transitioned a little bit more to buy and hold, kind of what’s your philosophy behind, like why you do what you do?

Jason: Initially, it’s really just about our capital. The kind of—the money we had access to, you know, my dad’s our moneyman and our business deal here and so we didn’t have that much capital to work with so we needed to flip houses and build capital. I needed income. You know, we wanted to transition out of our businesses that we owned into making an income to real estate and buy and hold takes a lot longer to do that. You know, flipping houses, you can, you know, you can transition into that, you know, probably in it’s couple three years if you do well and so, but now it’s become a tax liability. The buy and hold, that’s why we’re going back to buy and hold and you know help us out with some of our taxes and you know, it’s just wise. You just put—you someone else’s paying for a property that you own instead of you paying the no month over month, I mean just the basic sure having someone else pay for the notes and at the end, you’ve got yourself a house paid for and you got this asset that you can work with. That’s why we’re doing it. We’re wanting to transition to about 15 buy and holds in the next two or three years.

Josh: Right on and you had mentioned three years as kind of like, you know, I think what you said was reasonable for somebody to kind of transition from maybe a job to three years of flipping, you know, becoming kind of full time at that right?

Jason: Right.

Josh: You don’t think it’s reasonable that somebody quits their job after like 30 or 60 days of becoming a real estate investor like, hey quit your job, you’re going to get rich in 30 days?

Katherine: I think that’s insane. I think it’s insane and I think again, this is where you see people who fail. They get this idea that they’re going to get rich quick. I mean, not always. I don’t want to generalize.

Josh: No, some people. Some people do.

Katherine: They do.

Josh: Yes. Yes.

Katherine: They do and the gurus—there’s lots of gurus that feed into that. We hear it all the time here in Austin. There’s constantly seminars that come through, hey, use other people’s money. You know, make $50,000 in 30—I mean it’s ridiculous and so inexperienced people are like wow I could do that and that’s what they do. They quit their job and then they get frustrated and they get broke and they’re just and they give up and so I firmly believe that you need to keep your day job and it needs to be something that you constantly work towards. You’re educating yourself, you’re learning, you’re you know, learning the tools of the tools of the trade and you’re building a portfolio and you can work a full time job and do a flip. Is it hard? Absolutely, but anything that’s worth something is going to be hard work so I’m all about taking the slow road for it.

Josh: Well said. Well said. Alright, so flipping, does it work in any market and you know, can we talk maybe a little bit about flipping while the market’s hot versus the market being cold.

Jason: Well, it’s funny is, we actually have two flip properties that are on the Highland Lakes, one is in the Lake LBJ which is about an hour from Austin, hour west. Then Lake Buchanan, we have one. It’s about an hour and 30 minutes west and.

Katherine: They’re killing us. They’re killing us.

Josh:Who’s killing you?

Katherine: These properties.

Josh: Oh, no. Why?

Jason: It’s dead because we’re in a drought and there is no lake.

Brandon: Oh.

Josh: Oh, that’s not good.

Jason: Right, and so we have this contrast, we have properties in the city limits of Boston and I mean, they’re no brainers. They just fly off the market. Then we have these, we have this contrast of these properties on the lake that are just sitting and so can you buy, can you flip houses in any market? Well, if a house won’t sell, if there’s no buyers in the market then no, but if there are buyers in the markets then you know, really if there’s just a few, if it’s a pretty cold market. You’ve got to buy it cheap. That’s the only solution is buying it cheap because if you buy it cheap, you sell it cheap. Everybody wants a deal and if you have the best deal on MLS at the end, you win.

Katherine: Right.

Josh: Okay, let’s talk about that because people come in, you know, there’s experienced people listening, I mean they all get nuggets out of these shows, but you know, the beginners are really the ones who get the most out of this I think. How do I buy cheap? How do you buy a cheap property? We talked a little bit about marketing, but you know, how do you do it? What do you do?

Jason: This is my philosophy with it. It’s kind of you reap, what you sow. If you sow into your marketing, you will reap. If you don’t sow into your marketing, you’re not going to reap so it takes—and sowing takes time.

Josh: Sowing does, I was sowing, trust everything. My wife and daughters.

Jason: It can be bloody too, but sowing, just like a farmer, they don’t just go out there put the seed down and then bam, they got all their fruit. No, it takes time so.

Josh: Right.

Jason: I think that’s the key is. You know, with the—that’s what I like about BiggerPockets, there’ so many ideas and you can just become so overwhelmed with ideas. You know, just grab a few. One of our favorites. This is actually what—initially what kept us alive, we call it the dirty 30 and.

Josh: Hold one Brandon, you ready? Dirty 30.

Brandon: Dirty 30.

Josh: Good.

Jason: I’ve heard it also, Drive For Dollars, but we drive a neighborhood and we look for—a neighborhood we want to buy in that we already know is got good investment potential so it’s really focus marketing and you go and you drive and you look for houses with the roofs are bad. They obviously, cannot afford to put a new roof on the house, a distressed situation. The yards are overgrown, you know things like that. There’s about five or six clues that we look for and we’ll write down the address and we’ll go home and we’ll send them a handwritten letter and we did this for the first three or four years. We had a—it was a 3% return so we’d send out a hundred letters and pick up three houses.

Josh: You actually—so the 3% was not response rate, it was a 3% purchase rate?

Jason: That’s correct.

Brandon: Wow.

Josh: That’s pretty good.

Jason: Yes, I mean.

Brandon: What were the—wait—what were those letters? What did they say?

Jason: They basically said, hi, we were in your neighborhood, saw your property at and then you put their address on it and we are interested in buying a house in your neighborhood. We are able to purchase the property and can close at your convenience. If you have tenants in the property, we are willing to close now, or when their lease expires. Please call me. Then put my name and my number and that was it.

Josh: Wow. That’s great.

Brandon: That’s awesome.

Josh: That’s great and that’s obviously very effective, you had talked about five or six different things. You talked about roof, overgrown lawn, what are the other factors that you guys kind of peep out when you’re looking for distressed situations.

Jason: This kind of sounds silly, but my—the one that always catches my eye is the dented or messed up garage door.


Jason: That one, the roof, the yard overgrown, obviously, debris, you can like look on the sides of the house. If they’re collecting junk.

Josh: Yes.

Jason: Then that’s you know, to me that’s a good sign that.

Josh: Car parked on the lawn.

Jason: Yes, yes, you know the giveaways, the car parked on the lawn, obviously, the siding is messed up. You know, stuff like that or you know, of course, the obvious ones, papers on the front doorstep, maybe they’re not home or maybe it’s vacant or you know, something like that or maybe the person had to—was in the hospital or something like that. Just sending letters to what it looks like are distressed homeowners in distressed situation. The people—the houses are distressed because the people are distressed.

Josh: Right.

Jason: That’s what we’re looking for.

Josh: You’re job is not to further their stress, but to help them resolve their situation and get through it by you know, getting this property, which obviously if the property is in bad shape, it means they’re in capable of taking care of it for one reason or another and take it off their hands. Right?

Jason: Right and some people just need, you know, I can’t tell you how many people grabbed our letter and said, hey this is from God. I mean, we saw your letter and said I knew that you could help us. You know, there’s just people that just you know.

Katherine: Desperate.

Jason: You put a letter in their hand they’re like, this is a good a solution. This is what I need. I didn’t even know what I needed to do, but I really do need to sell this house, get down the road and start over. It’s a great opportunity to help people.

Josh: Right on. Right on. That’s great. That’s great. Alright, well, let’s kind of talk a little bit about this flipping business that you guys have established right? You started, obviously, now you’re transitioning a little bit to buy and hold, but how’s your business grown? What steps have you taken to continue to build it out. Obviously, and we’ll talk a little bit about marketing in a bit, but you know, just how do you keep the flow of deals coming. How do you manage your opportunities, maybe kind of expand into it a little bit.

Jason: Sure, you know, of course as the deals flow in, we just learned to kind of grow with it. Administratively, my wife is you know, Katherine is the real estate agent. She handles.

Josh: Okay.

Jason: Once we acquire the properties it goes into her hands. She is the transaction coordinator, gets them to close and then at the end, when we go to market them, she handles all the marketing and the selling them on the MLS. My dad is the moneyman. He handles the closings. He handles the—just all the money stuff and then I’m the one who actually goes and you know meets the motivated sellers, acquires the properties, gets them under contract, and then I handle the construction aspect or managing the construction or the general contractor and so we just had to morph into that.

We just had to grow into that, but really the only way to grow it is like you were saying is marketing and the more leads, the more business and then networking as you need to network. I don’t believe in just to network. I believe networking should have a purpose and everybody knows that. You’re not going out and meeting other investors because you want more friends. You go out and meet other investors because you can have a mutual business relationship.

Brandon: Alright, so yeah, that’s awesome so let’s actually talk more about that. The networking stuff because you know, I think a lot of new people struggle with that of getting in touch with other investors and people who might matter in their lives so what can you tell us about networking. How do you do it? How’s it affected your business?

Jason: Well, what I can tell you is the first four years, we did zero networking, with absolutely no networking. I think it affected our business. It limited us greatly so we met one investor and it changed our whole business. That’s all I can say. He’s been such a help and he’s actually one of my best friends now. I bounce everything off of him and he bounces stuff of me, but its just great to have a colleague that is doing the same thing you’re doing because there’ s so many weird situations and so many little nuances that you’re trying to work through. It’s just great to have someone there to help you and then through BiggerPockets if I can plug BiggerPockets. Is that okay?

Josh: No, you can’t plug Bigger.

Jason: Okay, I didn’t think so.

Josh: Yes.

Jason: I’ve actually picked up several deals. In fact, I’m working on a house right now from a gentleman I met through BiggerPockets. Lamar is his name and he’s wholesaling and doing a great job here.

Josh: Nice.

Jason: He gave me a lead and we’re in the middle of rehabbing that now and you know, I’ve met others here in Austin that I’m connected with and it’s just great to have that ability to bounce things off of and then it’s a great way to pick up deals, turn deals, and just learn more.

Josh: I love it. That’s for those of you who are listening. Be part of the BiggerPockets economy like the Grotes. Do it. Sign up. Alright, let’s get back to this.

Brandon: Hey, what.

Josh: That was awesome.

Brandon: That was.

Josh: They did not get paid at all for that.

Jason: Not yet.

Katherine: We even put up little signs that says we did not get paid for that.

Brandon: Yes. Well, let’s actually talk about the wholesaling thing a little bit. You said that this Lamar guy is wholesaling. That was going to be one of my questions. Do you buy from wholesalers? Apparently, you do. Do you have any tips for buying from them and do you have any tips for people who are wholesalers on selling to you?

Jason: Yes, we normally do not buy from wholesalers, just simply because there’s few wholesalers that market for their own properties. They’re usually just what I call, you know, bottom feeders. They’re just kind of taking scraps from other people, other deals, or the MLS or—and they’re just trying to make something happen with any kind of a lead and they’re usually just not very good so they kind of time stealers. Wholesalers that market their own properties. That’s what I ask. Do you, are you sending out letters? How are you marketing? It’s not I want to find out how they’re getting their deals. I want to see that they are getting real are off market properties. If they’re not, I won’t deal with them and so that would be my—my cue to other wholesalers listening is get a marketing campaign together. Get a good solid marketing campaign and bring real deals to the table. Otherwise, you’re name is just going to be associated with junk.

Josh: That’s awesome. That was going to be my follow up question, which was going to how do you not be a time stealer and how do you not be a crap wholesaler? With these guys, you know, a lot of them what you’ll see, a lot of these new wholesalers will—they’re scared. The thing I’ve noticed is they’re afraid to tell about the property because they’re afraid you’re going to steal the property from them.

Katherine: Right.

Josh: Maybe, you could give some advice on that. What is it that a wholesaler could do to not be so worried that people are going to steal deals from them and is there a way that they can protect themselves from that happening?

Jason: You know, it’s funny. I had the same fear. I think it’s natural.

Josh: Yes.

Jason: You know, it’s very fragile, when you get a good lead, man that’s precious. It’s good stuff and so, but you know, I think you have to build relationships with others and that’s where the trust comes in. Like, I wholesale to two or three different guys. I have just a handful of guys I wholesale to and I don’t even put—we don’t even put their wholesale fee on the contract or on an assignment contract with them. We literally shake a hand. He said, I’m going to pay you this much after closing and so it just makes things simple and so that would take away the fear. I’d say is building trust and until you build trust, you just need to cover yourself. There’s a right way to do it and let’s get it under contract and you know, seal the deal up and then when you go and show people that you’ve got a deal then you don’t have to worry about it.

Josh: What you’re saying is, if you have the deal in a contract then you don’t have to worry about it? Correct?

Jason: Yes, definitely.

Josh: Okay, so that’s the thing that blows my mind. All these guys are like, well, I don’t want to share with you, I don’t want to share. I’m like, well, is it your deal or is it not your deal.

Katherine: That’s it.

Josh: If it’s your deal, it’s not going anywhere. Nobody is going to take it and if they do take it then you’ve got recourse.

Jason: I think they’re afraid to get it under contract for in fear of not having an in buyer and that’s where inexperience comes in. That’s where it’s tough.

Brandon: Yes.

Jason: That’s where the wholesaler has to break through to the place where, you know, they can trust their decision and that’s where you’ve got to have a good realtor, you’ve got to have a good comps. You’ve got to know what the rehab costs are going to be. You’re analysis has to be there and I think if you don’t have the experience, you need to just go team up with someone until you get that experience. Otherwise, it’s just going to be rough.

Josh: That’s great advice. Alright, so one more thing along those lines of wholesaling so you mentioned that you guys will actually wholesale deals and by nature, you are the fix and flippers, rehabbers and you’re able to wholesale and you need to wholesale, presumably because you’re marketing campaign is so good that you’ve got all these of these extra leads that you can’t work at any given time so that’s how you dispose of them is that correct?

Jason: That’s exactly it. We basically fill up our pitcher, you know, our tub and then when our tub is full, we’ll turn them or there are some deals that really don’t fit our business. I like to stay a little closer to home if possible. If I get a hot property on the other side of town. I’m going to work it, but if it’s close to my home. It’s mine, but if it’s far away and I know it will fit someone else, then I’ll more than likely turn it.

Brandon: Yes.

Josh: Great.

Brandon: That makes sense. I think Danny Johnson said that same thing that you know, if it fits within his business model, great even if it might be a really good deal. If it’s outside his specific business model, he’s not going to do it so I think that’s awesome. Well, let’s talk about your marketing a little bit because you obviously have good marketing so how do you do it? What’s working for you right now?

Jason: Well, our number one is our website. I mean, that’s actually what’s transitioned us from just doing a couple you know, every few months to just you know one or two a month.

Brandon: Really.

Jason: The website was the big deal and I never thought there was people looking on the internet, which is so dumb because everybody looks on the internet for everything. I mean, I was like I don’t know what my problem was, but it was my air conditioner sub convinced me in actually build my first website. We SEOd it and it eventually is started bringing in some leads and we just took it and ran from there, but.

Katherine: It changed everything. It changed, when he first came to me and told me about starting a website, I have to tell you, I said, “Oh no, it’s a terrible idea.” Especially when I started thinking about the cost to SEO it, how expensive it is a month and things were really tight at that time. Our business was not doing well and I was against it, but I just have to say that I was totally wrong. I can absolutely admit that. It has changed our business completely and taken us to a whole other level.

Josh: I’m glad you admitted that publicly because you know.

Katherine: Yes.

Josh: Jason’s been waiting a long time for you to say that.

Katherine: Yes. Yes.

Brandon: No, that’s awesome though. I mean nobody else has actually yet that their website is like their top kind of producer. What about your website’s doing so well do you think? Is it just like Google’s bringing you people?

Jason: Yes, I mean just being on top of the search engines for just the main keywords. You know, just the basics. Just basic internet marketing, you just got to find out in your area how people are going to search for you and I will give the million dollar tip right now. Are you ready?

Josh: Drum roll.

Jason: Here we go. Whatever the bandit signs say, that’s what people are searching for.

Brandon: Ooh. That’s good.

Josh: That is interesting advice.

Jason: If they say you need to sell your big fat house and that becomes the buzzword. That’s what people are going to search so you know, that’s the number one tip there, but if you do that and you just have a website that’s warm and friendly and.

Katherine: Not a bunch of junk on it.

Brandon: Yes.

Katherine: I mean, I can’t tell you how many times we go to different investors sites and there’s just so much. I’m just overwhelmed. I can’t even—it just stresses me out. I have to leave that website because there’s just too much information.

Brandon: I know a few—a couple of months ago, I wrote a post on the blog on how to build a website in under an hour or whatever, but I used your guys’s website as a sort a.

Josh: Example.

Brandon: Example, yes, in there of what a good website looks like. You guys—yeah I thought yours looked awesome. We’ll link to it in our show notes too, but yes, it looked really really good so.

Jason: Thank you.

Josh: Hey, and something else that you guys do on the web since we’re talking about is you blog, right? I mean you’re a writer, you’re an investor, but you write and you write about real estate and that’s how we are I believe, originally ended up kind of getting to know you guys and you came over and sort of started writing for us. Presumably, blogging on your site and eventually as you came over and started writing with us. That’s been beneficial. The blogging part correct?

Brandon: Yes, it has. I guess for SEO value, it’s very helpful. You know, the people that we’re trying to attract to the website aren’t reading real estate blogs.

Josh: Yes.

Jason: I mean in that sense, it’s kind of indirect, you know, it’s a building up a presence. Just like you’re doing with your website Josh, that’s why we came over to the BiggerPockets was the exposure via, you know, just being able to add in and receive from all the information, but ultimately, to get a seller to commit to selling you their house, you know, none of that really matters to them, but it does help your website. It makes you look like an authority whether you are or not.

Katherine: Well, let me say one more thing just really quickly on the blogging topic. I think that the other thing it helps for example, on our website, I think when a motivated seller or someone who’s looking to buy our house goes there and can read about that. I think it’s a good way for them to also get to know you a little better. I know that sounds a little crazy, but on a personal level, and a lot of these people are looking for someone that they can relate to. I think it—if you will it give them a little bit more warm and fuzzy to read and feel like they’re starting—they’re really getting to know whoever it is that’s going to buy your house.

Josh: It builds trust and.

Katherine: Right.

Josh: In particular, if you’re writing about deals that you’ve done what it does is. It establishes a track record for you and.

Katherine: That’s it.

Josh: A new person or not a new person, but yes, somebody’s who’s worried. They’re like who the heck are these people? Can I trust them? Do they know what they’re doing? Looks you up and they see wow, this guy has done 12 deals, and you know, they’ve closed quickly. You’ve demonstrated it by writing about it and talking about. That’s going to make them more likely to work with you.

Katherine: That’s it and the other thing is referrals and you know, we do a good job with the people we work with. We’ve gotten several deals from referrals like that. Additionally, we also have reviews on our website. People will review us and that’s important. People, you know, nowadays, they’re turning to sources like Angie’s list in Yelp to get reviews on people and those are all important, especially for real estate investing.

Josh: That’s a really interesting point because I don’t think we’ve heard that one before.

Brandon: Yes.

Josh: Do you have button on your site that points to your profile on Yelp and Angie’s and ask your folks to review you over there.

Jason: We do. I believe we have a button for Yelp, Better Business Bureau, and Google Reviews.

Josh: Interesting. That’s great piece of advice so and frankly, I think anybody listening should probably do the same thing. I think that’s awesome.

Brandon: Yes, yes, that’s really cool. Say I have a question about when you get a call from a motivated seller, like how does that play out? Walk us through if you would real quick. You talk to them for the first time when do you go look at their property? When do you make them an offer? What does that look like?

Jason: What’s funny is that I was listening to Danny Johnson’s podcast and you know, what we do is identical. He’s grinding out and figured out basically the same things we’ve figured out by ourselves. What I did learn from him, I’m going to start doing is when we talk to someone on the phone, I’m already, my wife’s a realtor, we’re already looking at the comps before I even get into an in depth conversation, I know what they’re house is generally worth. If they’re asking for retail value plus or you know, something that’s not going to work for us and I know. I’m just starting negotiating on the phone with them or asking what they’re best deal is.

If they say well, you know, it’s 90 and the house is worth retail a hundred which is not a good deal for a wholesaler then I’m going to just tell them, listen, we buy wholesale, not retail. I don’t want to waste your time, my time is precious also, but before I come out and take a look at your, I need to feel like we’re in a ball park range of where we can be. We’ll try and determine that.

If not, we just part ways and I usually try to send them on them on a positive note and say listen, you can listen with a realtor and do a little better so I turn probably I would say, almost half of my leads to real estate agency. My wife’s not even taking listings anymore so I would just, I’d just say go find a realtor, go find a good realtor and list it and so it’s not this like hey, we can’t help you, you know, you’re not selling me your house cheap enough so kick rocks. When we do go into the field, we actually go to the house, I usually acquire 70% to 80% of the houses I actually look at.

Brandon: Wow, that’s awesome. That’s like shock to me. That’s awesome.

Jason: The need for efficiency, okay.

Josh: Well, it’s all about that screening, huh. It’s essential.

Brandon: Yes.

Jason: It is.

Katherine: Yes, and the other thing is, is some of the ones that he will look, you need to retail value for your house. Like, you know, wholesaler and then best you can help you. There’s been several people who’ve called us back. You know, a month or so later or weeks later and say okay, we just can’t do this. We trust you, you’ve given us good advice. You weren’t trying to steal our house. We’re ready to come down. We’re ready to be realistic about this and sell to someone like and we get the deal.

Josh: Nice. Nice. No that’s great. Let’s really quick, this is show—this show 27 of the BiggerPockets Podcast, check out the show notes at

Brandon: Cool.

Josh: What kind of properties are you guys looking for specifically, age style, anything in particular? What’s the Jason and Katherine, you know, bread and butter house?

Jason: The bread and butter house is your ‘80s built, three bed, two baths, 14-1500 square foot house and in Austin, there’s about a million of those. It’s, they’re easy, the construction is so simple. We can almost expect the same issues every time so when rehabbing a house, that’s our bread and butter.

Katherine: High equity, maybe a landlord looking to you know, get rid of their property, someone that has maybe—they understand how real estate works, they’re easy to deal with because you don’t have to handhold them through. It’s great.

Josh: Okay.

Brandon: Have you found that it’s been more difficult to get those really good deals now that the market is going up and everyone knows the market is going up. Is it getting tougher?

Jason: Yes, it is actually. It’s thinned out a little bit, even our website. You know Danny said on his website, his leads have gone down and he thought it might be because of his phone book, but what was so wild it confirmed something I had heard form an investor in Dallas who has a lead generating website. They were having the same problems since January. If we, and so does Danny, it’s just the market right now. I think there’s more investors in the market than ever right now so yes, they’re a little thinner. You just have to work a little harder and, but the plus is when you go to sell it, it’s easier so the buying them harder, the selling them is easier.

Josh: Yes.

Brandon: Yes.

Josh: Really, quick on the website thing, if you go to Google Trends, there’s something called Google Trends, you can Google it, Google, Google Trends. What you’ll actually see is that interest in real estate and real estate investing terms are dramatically lower than they were back in the—I haven’t looked recently, but I know Brandon and I.

Brandon: They’re definitely on their way up again though, but yes, they’ve definitely bottomed out here a year ago and yes.

Josh: Yes.

Brandon: It’s a good way to kind of track of like what’s, yeah, what are people searching for in Google.

Josh: Yes.

Brandon: It’s definitely, yes, it’s definitely on the climb up right now, so.

Josh: Yes. Well what do you guys look for like what do you guys do on a typically flip. What repairs are certain absolutes that you’re going to jump in and do.

Jason: Typically, roof, AC, foundation is pretty big, the foundation repair. You know, we like to door all flooring, paint inside and out. You know remodel the kitchen, countertops. We try to keep cabinets if we can.

Now these are houses that will sell for 200 or less when you start getting over 200-250 you know you got to change out cabinetry usually. You know, all the fixtures, we like to put in cans because they’re recess cans because they’re so inexpensive and they have such a nice feel. Front door, that’s one of our favorites, we love changing out the front door, getting a nice pop on the front door, a landscaping, we believe in curb appeal.

We believe that people make their decision, whether or not they’re going to buy the house in their first three of four minutes, which includes, when they pull up and they walk in the first two or three rooms, they see. You’re going to have them or not, have them by that point so we try to make those, the outside and then the main areas like the living, the family, and the entry pop. That’s where we put our focus.

Brandon: Nice. You mentioned foundation issues. Now, that scares a lot of people. A lot of investors are just freaked out by that. Let’s talk about that real quick. What’s a bad foundation look like? Like, how bad is too bad and what can you do about them?

Jason: Well, I actually, strangely enough I worked for a foundation repair company, when our business got really slow so I did foundation repair estimating on slab foundations for about a year. I learned so much. Now, I even have my own level. I’ll take it out to the properties and it’s a great negotiating tool because nobody thinks, they’ll just say, I don’t have a foundation problem. I just have some settling. Well, duh, that’s what a foundation problem is, is when your slab settles, so it to what degree and how much it’s moving.

You know, one inch, variation in 20 feet is guideline for FHA and BA so we’re always looking to the close to the end buyer, are we going to freak them out. Of course, we repair the drywall cracks and what you don’t want and this what we calculate. When we repair the drywall cracks are they going to come back after we repair it? If we feel like they’re going to show back up, then we fix the foundation. If we feel like, and we’ve done this on a few that have foundation cracks, but you could tell those cracks had been there for 20, 30, 40 years and hadn’t moved much. We won’t fix that foundation, but if the house is 10-12 years old it’s got foundation cracks, you need to at least stabilize it, put peers underneath it because you don’t want to sell a house then people move in and then the cracks start showing back up. You don’t want to do that.

Brandon: Typically, what’s the cost to fix a, you know, minor foundation problem like a crack. I know that’s a general question, but what are people looking at?

Jason: Yes, well, typically, it’s about $300 a peer and I would say the average foundation repair cost is about $5-$7,000.

Brandon: Okay.

Josh: Well, but knowing that you can now go ahead and estimate it, right and so you know, you’re going out. You’re looking and the average guy who doesn’t quite understand what that cost is, they’re going to see a crack, they’re going to think, wow, it’s going to cost me10-20-30, you know, whatever they think whereas you know, knowing that its potentially right around seven you can now put that into your estimation cost.

Jason: Yes, so we have a comfortability with foundation repair. I think it gives us a little bit of an edge and we have flipped many houses with foundation repairs. In fact, we have one under contract right now. The lady had it on the market and it wouldn’t sell because it had a foundation problem. She was referred to us and she had the listing agreement cancel with her agent and sold it to us and we’re about to close on that one Friday.

Josh: Nice.

Brandon: ice.

Josh: Nice. Are there any problems that you guys stay away from?

Katherine: I don’t think so.

Jason: We’re not really afraid of much if that house is just—what we look at is basically, we can put as much money into a house as possible, but can the neighborhood support it. You know, it’s just a matter of if we out that much money into a house, can it support it? If it can, and we can make a margin, we’ll do just about anything.

Katherine: One of the houses that we bought a few years back was partially burnt down. I mean, you throw money at anything and you can make it look good, and as long the neighborhood will support, the comps will support it, we can deal off of it. I don’t think we’re really afraid of it.

Josh: Right on.

Katherine: One more thing about foundations, sorry, here in central Texas, people are used to it. I heard a foundation expert once say that they get something like 3-4 saval homes in this area, either have had foundation repair, need foundation repair, or will need it. It’s just the fact of the matter here.

Josh: Seems like a good business to go into down there.

Brandon: Yes.

Jason: It’s huge.

Josh: Yes.

Brandon: My area is the same way, we’re built on a swamp and so my whole county is built on a giant swamp so. Do you guys hire?

Josh: That explains a couple about Brandon.

Brandon: Thank you. Do you hire an inspector to look at your properties or do you just do it all yourself.

Jason: No, we never have. We just inspect them ourselves and now we just look for the big things mainly as we walk through, we just look at the AC, the roof, the foundation, and then just make some quick notes about, you know, kitchen, bath, cabinets, flooring. We are—there’s some things we just gut always and then we just look the ones that we try to keep and remain and then so we just kind of keep it simple. We just do it ourselves and we’ve never run into anything that’s killed us so, so far.

Brandon: I’m also wondering then, you guys, I’m assuming, you don’t do your own labor so how does that work with hiring contractors. Do you have any tips for finding good ones? I ask a lot of people this because this is a question I deal with constantly.

Jason: You’re not alone, Brandon.

Josh: You are not alone.

Jason: I have the worst. We have the worst sublist that we’ve ever had right now. It’s and it’s because it’s crazy, construction’s crazy busy here and so all you know, they’re going and fleeing to people that are willing to pay top dollar. We’re not so we go in the back burner and then we go looking for new subs. It’s rough, but I think the key is to just take care of the ones that do a good job. Just pay them timely, take care of them, but you can’t control how they come in and out, but finding them, Craigslist, other contractors, other—this is where networking comes in, some of the investors that I work with, I get some of the greatest subs from them.

Josh: Nice.

Brandon: Yes, that makes sense and I’m just going to throw this out there for those who haven’t heard because I bring it up every so often. Once of J Scott’s tips was go to Home Depot at like six in the morning and see who’s standing around the pro-desk and those are the guys that are you know good. I love the tip. Yes.

Jason: That’s brilliant.

Brandon: Well, cool. Well you guys both work together. We talked about that earlier. You’re kind of a team. I’m wondering if you have any tips for working with your spouse. I know a lot of people, a lot of real estate investors, one of the benefits of being an investor is a lot of times you get to work with your spouse so what are your thoughts on that?

Katherine: I think it’s really important to—that everyone knows their place and what their job is. I think that’s probably the most important thing.

Josh: Can you rephrase that really quick because you know, if a guy tells that to his spouse, she’s not going to be real happy with that.

Brandon: No, you. No.

Josh: Like, it’s coming from Katherine, it’s cool. You know your place Jason.

Jason: Yes, I do.

Katherine: Thank God.

Jason: I got to take over. There’s a phone call that she’s been waiting for all morning. She’s got to take, but yes, basically, defining your position, you know of course, I had the tendency to dominate and take over some of my wife’s jobs.

Josh: Of course, she says that as she leaves the room.

Jason: Ok, now let’s be honest. No, but it’s great. It—you know, we have a great marriage so it makes it—it makes it nice and adds another dimension, but it’s helpful, you know. We work together, we’re you know, at night, I’m like, oh hey, did you forget to do this or did you do this? We just be laying in bed and she said oh yeah, I took care of that. Not that I advocate talking about real estate all night long, but.

Brandon: It’s easy to do. Isn’t it?

Jason: It’s I mean because we love, we’re passionate about real estate and it’s fun and so.

Brandon: Yes.

Jason: It’s just another dimension, but working together, you understand and know each other more and let’s just face it, if you have issues or problems, you get mad at one another. You got to work through it. You’re married.

Brandon: Yes.

Josh: Yes. What about selling? You know, obviously you get these things, you get to cover PL, where do you guys price your houses?

Jason: What do you mean by how do we price our house?

Josh: Well, you know, so say the average comp of a house in an area you’re doing is say 150,000, it matches pretty well, you guys finish it fairly nicely. Are you going to price it at 150 are you going to drop to say 140-145 and try and bid it up or are you going to. Where—what’s you’re pricing strategy selling one of your flips.

Jason: Okay, well, we do have a cookie cutter philosophy on it, but basically what we do we want to—we want the house to sell within the first three weeks or get a contract within the first three weeks because after three weeks, I believe the seller goes—leaves the driver seat and gives it to the buyer. That’s when you start getting low ball offers and when you see—everybody know when you see houses on the market for two-three-four months, you’re not in the driver seat as a seller. The buyer is they’re going to come in and they’re going to tell what’s—how it’s going to go down. We don’t want to give up that position, obviously so. Everything we do is, we try to price it to where we believe it’ll sell within the first really 14 days.

Josh: Okay, so what does that mean?

Jason: That means for example, if we did a full remodel, a nice remodel and the comps are at 200 for a full remodel, you know, we’re going to list right around there. We used to try to push the comps up a little bit and really stretch things and we will if the neighborhood is super hot and so Austin’s a little bit of an anomaly. Many neighborhoods the average days on the market is seven, six, seven days, which is basically enough for people to go in and out of the house and try to work through multiple offers. It takes six, seven days to do that so we can really push things up, like recently, we just got—we have it under contract. It was on the market seven days, this house we had and the most the house ever sold for in the neighborhood was 205, I think and we listed at 2 14 5 and we got it under contract in seven days. It just-there’s so many variables that we take into consideration.

Brandon: Awesome. Awesome. Alright, well, what’s—let’s move this right along. We’re almost out of time so very quickly, we’re going to do our new segment that we’ve been doing recently, called the Fire Round.

Josh: Fire Round. Fire Round.

Brandon: That was—we should get one of those monster truck guys to announce that.

Josh: Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.

Brandon: Yes, that’s what we’ll do. I’ll get a guy in fiver to do that. Alright, so these questions all came from the BiggerPockets Forums. These are actual questions people are asking so if you are a listener and you have questions, go through them on the forums and we might read it on your—on the next podcast so. Here we go, number one, what is your average profit per flip?

Josh: A lot of times I say.

Jason: $30,000.

Brandon: Oh, okay and what is your minimum profit per flip?

Jason: $15,000.

Josh: Windows, refinish old wood one or update with new vinyl?

Jason: Update with new vinyl.

Brandon: Would you buy a house, and I think I know this answer, you kind of said it earlier. Would you buy a house that was severely burned?

Katherine: Yes.

Brandon: This is a quick Fire Round.

Josh: The password is. What about a pool, if there’s just like a real nasty looking pool? Do you guys remove it? Refinish it? What do you do?

Jason: Oh, we forgot, we don’t buy houses with pools.

Josh: I knew there was something. Busted.

Jason: Every house we’ve bought with a pool is has not gone well, but will do it.

Brandon: Will you fill it in or will you make it look pretty?

Jason: Depends on how much the cost is. I would say $2,000 or less, we’ll keep it. More than that, we’ll make it a garden.

Josh: Really quick, I saw a, I don’t know, it was one of the 10,000 flipping shows and this guy buys a house with a pool and the pool was all jacked up and he had all this debris from the renovation of the house.

Brandon: He put it in there.

Josh: He’s got a big old pile of debris and he literally gets his buddy and he starts throwing all the crap into the pool and you know, just like, yes, this is going to fill it and we’ll just cover with a little layer of dirt and his contractor comes running out and is like, what the hell are you doing? Are you out of your mind? You can’t do that and obviously in the end, you know, they had to do it the right way and take out the concrete and fill it appropriately. Throw their garbage where it belonged instead of chucking it in a hole in the backyard.

Jason: Well, I thought it was a great idea until you told me you couldn’t do it.

Brandon: That’s funny. That’s funny. Alright, do you.

Josh: Don’t listen to all those flipping shows guys, I mean, there’s so. There’s some crazy stuff.

Jason: They’re helpful for sure.

Brandon: Yes, alright, do you charge a late fee for contractors who don’t finish on time or do you have any other. What do you do when contractors don’t finish on time?

Katherine: We beat them. I was kidding.

Josh: Okay, I was drinking water and I came this close to spitting it across the screen.

Katherine: I was kidding.

Josh: I can see that happening.

Brandon: I could as well. That would be awesome.

Jason: No, no, seriously, we don’t really have anything like that, but you know, I’ve never really had a big problem with it. We don’t use general contractors. If I do use a general contractor, then we obviously have something built in there.

Josh: Right on, right on. Alright and the last of the Fire Round is a wood floors. What do you guys do? Dark stain, light stain, or no stain?

Katherine: Depends on the property, depends for example, if it’s dark in side the house, we’re going to do something a little lighter to lighten it up. Actually, we’re going into a property right now. We’re kind of doing a modern update on it and we’re doing wood look tile, wood plank tile in it.

Brandon: I’ve heard of that. I’ve never used it. That’s awesome.

Katherine: Yes, it’s very contemporary, it has a very contemporary feel.

Brandon: Yes, that’s cool. I’ve heard about using that in like basements because you know, tiles so it’s water proof or whatever, but.

Josh: That’s an interesting idea. Yes.

Brandon: It looks like wood.

Josh: You guys should take some pictures and post them up so we can see it.

Brandon: Yes.

Jason: Yes, I’ll do it.

Josh: Do it.

Brandon: Alright, it’s that time again.

Josh: Uh oh, Brandon, what time is it?

Brandon: It’s time for the Famous Four.

Josh: Famous Four.

Brandon: That was awesome.

Josh: That was good and it did you see Jason’s face as we did.

Brandon: Yes.

Josh: I think he was going to explode.

Jason: Am I part of that Famous Four.

Josh: Oh, you could join us, you want do it?

Jason: Sure.

Brandon: Yes, come on. I’ll be baritone. Alright, here we go, three part harmony. One, two, three. Famous Four.

Josh: Famous Four.

Jason: Famous Four.

Brandon: The best we’ve done yet, right there.

Josh: Absolutely.

Brandon: She just called us…

Josh: Alright, so Famous Four, what is your and you would refer to one both either of the Grote clan over here. What is your favorite real estate book?

Jason: Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Brandon: Good.

Josh: Katherine?

Katherine: I don’t have one sorry.

Josh: That is.

Jason: She can’t read.

Josh: Help her out man, come on, 10,000 plus listeners and now you know, that wasn’t right.

Brandon: For those who didn’t see that cause.

Katherine: Let me say something real quick here. I don’t have time to read. I’m too busy investing.

Josh: Oh.

Brandon: Nice.

Josh: Ooh. Got you.

Brandon: She just punched her husband in the arm.

Jason: Did you see that? You have that saved?

Brandon: That was saved.

Brandon: Favorite non-real estate business book, Jason.

Jason: Honestly, I don’t have one. I know that sounds ridiculous.

Josh: No.

Jason: We don’t.

Josh: You’re rich enough, you’re smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like you.

Jason: Oh got the right answer. I got the right answer. Who needs a book when you have

Josh: Bam.

Brandon: Ooh. I like it. I like it.

Josh: That’s a bonus right there.

Jason: Seriously, I’ve read a few books in the beginning, since then, I mean they just got us started. They got us a little foundation going and once you have a foundation going, experience is how you learn, not books.

Josh: Fair enough. Fair enough. Alright. You guys are a very fun couple what do you guys do outside of real estate. What kind of hobbies do you have?

Katherine: Hobbies, man? We’ve got three kids.

Josh: Got three kids?

Katherine: We don’t have time for hobbies. Seriously, though we’re real involved in our church and in our community and with our kids. That’s what we do.

Josh: Wow.

Brandon: Cool.

Josh: Wow.

Jason: Boring huh?

Josh: Yes. No, you know what. I just had my third kid so I will be turning to you for advice I’m sure.

Brandon: I also just had my third cat that I have in…

Josh: Okay not only does he live in swamp, he’s a crazy cat lady. That’s a scary thing.

Brandon: It takes a lot of work to take care of three cats.

Jason: It’s not the same Brandon.

Brandon: Oh, it’s the same. I know exactly, so.

Jason: It’s just minus the liter boxes.

Brandon: Exactly, yes. I mean. It’s easy. Alright, what do you believe sets apart the successful house flippers from those who just come and go and never really gain any kind of traction?

Katherine: I think some of it is just a matter of going out and doing. I think keeping it so consumed with all the information that’s out there. That you never actually do anything. Just sit there and you always gain information, but you need that experience. I think the other things is, I think there’s a lot of people who don’t treat this as it’s a real business as much as if you were opening a store front business and it—they say that. I think it’s something like 95% of start up businesses fail in the first five years and I think that applies to this as well. You’ve just got to be able to dig in and learn from your mistakes and just be determined to hold on and press forward and don’t let the set backs just knock you off course.

Josh: yes, that’s great and of course, you’re husband needs to know his place.

Jason: Yes, if that happens, all is well.

Katherine: I didn’t mean that exactly, I meant that in a good business structure, everyone knows their jobs is what I was trying to say.

Josh: It’s okay. It’s okay. It’s okay.

Brandon: Cool.

Josh: Did you have anything to add to that, Jason?

Jason: Yes, I think it’s just discipline and I think that’s what she’s getting at. As a business owner, it’s being disciplined. If you’re not organized and disciplined, you’re going to fail because this business takes discipline. You got to put everything in it’s place, your time has to be put—separated out correctly from pleasure to business. You got to work hard on your marketing and you got to follow up with your leads. You got to be diligent.

Josh: Yes, fantastic.

Katherine: One more thing, as he talks about discipline, I wish you could all see our desks right now with all the piles all over it. I think you would be like, what are they talking about.

Josh: Nice.

Brandon: Yes. I see it. Nice, well cool. Thank you guys very much. This has been a really fun show.

Josh: It has indeed.

Brandon: We’re glad to have had you so.

Josh: Definitely.

Brandon: Where can people learn more about your guys.

Jason: Our website, and you can’t learn a whole lot about us there, but you could always hook up with us on Send a colleague a request and we love having conversations with BiggerPockets.

Brandon: Nice.

Josh: Interesting. What’s that site.

Jason: BiggerPockets, P-A, no I’m just kidding, P-O-C-K-E-T-S.

Josh: Nice.

Jason: Dot com.

Josh: There you go. Awesome. Listen, thank you so so much we really enjoyed it and we will—we’ll see you around the site and obviously, want to continue to hear about your successes and hopefully you’ll be sharing those on your site and ours so thank you.

Jason: Absolutely, and thank you all for having us on the show, we thoroughly enjoyed it.

Katherine: Thank you both. We appreciate ya’ll.

Brandon: No problem.

Josh: Alright everybody, that was a fun, fun, show with Jason and Katherine Grote of I know I picked up a couple tips there and hopefully you guys did as well. Thank you very much for listening. Brandon, hopefully you enjoyed yourself a little bit, the swamp monster.

Brandon: Thank you, yes, that was fun.

Josh: It was. It was so listen. We’ve got lots of great shows ahead, scheduled for you guys. Definitely make sure to stay tuned. If you want to find out more information about some of the things we talked about on today’s show, go to Otherwise, of course as always, be sure to check us out on Facebook at, Twitter at, Youtube at We got a group on Facebook. We got a group on LinkedIn, we got a group everywhere. Of course, come on BiggerPockets, join us, hang out with us, introduce yourself, interact learn, engage, and like the Grotes, I mean these guys are doing business because they’re active and part of this community.

They’re doing business with other people on BiggerPockets so you know, what else do I have to say. Jump on and be part of that. That’s pretty much it. Again, really quick. Note, again, we launched the brand new calculators and analysis tools and things on BiggerPockets so you can check them out on and just go to our analysis or analyze—I believe it’s analyze menu option and you’ll see it right there. Jump in, check it out and start using it. It’s pretty incredible so ‘til next time, thank you very much. Brandon.

Brandon: Bye.

Josh: Good-bye.

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