Mentor ideals do not align with my own

87 Replies

@Llewelyn A.  Couldn't agree more with that advice! 

@Christopher Lewis I currently have a full-time job at a large consulting firm, but that has not stopped me from investing. It is a very nice feeling to know that if anything goes wrong with either of my investments, I will be able to come up with the money out of my salary. My goal is to quit my job eventually and move into RE full time, but as of now, I am having no problems doing both. I even find additional side gigs to, in the words of my brother says, "stack cash" for my next deal. 

Final thought, don't let people get you down. A lot of people will want to belittle your goals or tell you that you can't do something. Keep your head up, and keep coming around here. For the most part, this is truly one of the friendliest and most helpful networking & learning sites on the internet. 

-Brian 

I seem to be a little late to this conversation, and may be repeating other posts since I haven't read them all, but...

My favorite quote in life is "Don't take advice from people you wouldn't trade shoes with." I use that quote DAILY to decipher who and what I should be listening to. So that's one thing. Then the other is...how do you feel about him saying that about you being a better fit for the secure job roles rather than an entrepreneur?

If you have a calling inside of you, then that's all you should listen to. If he has a point and your skillset isn't quite that of...whatever he thinks it's not...then you can adjust. But it's a much more gray approach than just black and white of-- FI or secure job. There's many inbetweens and ways to get whatever it is you want in life. 

So if you want FI, then by golly, go for it. Maybe the info in the personality test is helpful in helping you figure out how to do it, but it certainly shouldn't dictate something to you if what it's dictating goes against what you want.

There are ways to be FI without being a full-blown entrepreneur.

In addition to being a real estate investor, I'm also a car dealer.  I interview and hire supposed "super" salesman all the time.  Guess what?  The only think super is their ego.  The guys who succeed are the workers.  Work ethic is the only thing that matters.  I'll take a hard working introvert over a lazy "super" salesman all day long, seven days a week.

Originally posted by @Christopher Lewis :

FI as in Financial Independence. He had me take a personality test and said that I would fit better as a Financial Analyst or Consultant than as an Entrepreneur.

 If we have to talk you into investing in real estate it's the wrong field for you. If we can't talk you out of it, you'll do fine.

Possibly that "mentor" was saying it to see how you reacted.  Whatever your personality test says its pretty much irrelevant to being able to become FI.  It might mean you won't be the best business person or whatever but there is no for sure and you don't need to be a great business person to become FI.  

If I told you the same thing as your mentor and then saw  you go for it full throttle anyways I'd smile and say you're probably going to make it.  With real estate the people that fail are the ones that never pull the trigger.  Even if you falter but keep pressing forward most people will eventually make it.  The issue is most people quit.  

You were in the military so I'm going to guess you take instruction better than most.  As long as you have someone giving you instruction you will be fine.  This business is pretty simple, not always easy but its really simple. 

Maybe getting a job (you might have one I don't know) is a good start. There is no reason you can't chase it with a job, and it'll probably make getting to FI a little safer.  IF you have someone that is helping to support you without a job then go for it, you can give yourself a timeline.   WIth a little money and a lot of time you should be getting results pretty fast. If the timeframe ends then get a job and continue at your own pace.

@Russell Brazil freaking love seeing your response. Thanks for reminding us all that other people's opinions do not dictate our lives. Here is one of my favorite quotes on the matter "The greatest fear in the world is of the opinions of others. And the moment you are unafraid of the crowd you are no longer a sheep, you become a lion. A great roar arises in your heart, the roar of freedom."

What a fruitful discussion! Happy I found this one. My two cents I guess would probably be: context matters. I would like to see one sentence from your mentor as to what he meant by that. 

Mentors tend to be wiser, and we have to trust them in order to benefit. 

If you don't trust him, ask yourself: Do I feel this way because the advice they are giving me is correct and they are sage? Or are you actually more able to put your finger on the truth of the matter than they are?

The gurus need to be watched with a little suspicion, but by and large, if you choose someone to be your mentor, it's because you believe they are wiser than you. Consider ditching them with a big dose of caution and self-reflection! Then, do what you feel is right. You're at the wheel in your own life. 

I think it is important to evaluate and to ask - why is this person your mentor in the first place, what made you seek him out as a mentor? Did you guys align on your goals and how he would be able to help you progress in your goals or career ambitions?

I don't think a test necessarily can say whether someone is cut out to be an entrepreneur as much as knowing someone. I would dig deeper into what makes him think that. It sounds like you don't necessarily know each other well and met him at a conference and thought you would pick his brain into how to be successful in real estate.

Honestly reading a handful of good real estate books is pretty much the same information as what a lot of the workshops and expensive courses will teach you anyway. If you are a good self starter and hard working, you can learn pretty much anything these days on your own. If you want a book, it'll be there in a few days thanks to Amazon and the reviews from others typically can give insights into whether the information will be helpful or not.

Personally I see more value in a mentor for giving advice in emotional situations since they can be unbiased and for their Business relationships that they have established over the years rather than the foundation to go on a real estate journey.

It's really a question you should ask 'Why'.

Do you think this mentor thing is over rated..... ???just what if your mentor is a dud

You know the saying... “you don’t know what you don’t know”

Would it be wiser to network with many investors, connect with investors on BP

Meet ups etc

Just my humble opinion

@Ali Boone  From everything that I have seen, it is a very difficult and a very long process to become financially independent without being an entrepreneur. One of the biggest reasons is because you miss out on the benefits of leverage where you are able to use other people’s time, efforts, talents, and money to create money for you. I’m not just talking about a one man show entrepreneur (who owns more of a job than a business) but I am talking about real entrepreneurs who develop business systems that work and earn them money when the entrepreneur is not there.

@Caleb Heimsoth You are predictable in your negative comments towards paying for education.

@Llewelyn A. I loved your advice about having your secure job provide the seed money for your investments. I think that mindset is not only accurate and realistic, but I think that it can help people have a realistic view of a path to reach financial freedom.

Here is my opinion when it comes to becoming financially independent, or financially free. First, get a high paying job. It does not have to be something you love to do, or that you have a passion for, or that you even like. As long as it doesn’t go against your moral value system, the work itself does not really matter because it is not your end game. Just as many people who went through school didn’t do it because they necessarily loved going through school but they did it for what school was going to give them - a degree, certificate, etc. which would open up opportunities to do something else.

Here is the path that I see people who are financially free take.

1. get a job to support yourself with a flexable schedule (preferably a high paying job)

2. Live frugally during the beginning of the process

3. Accumulate seed money (or get access to seed money which is easier if you have a high paying job already and you have low expenses) 

4. Start a business on the side with a much higher income potential than your job

5. Help that business grow and then systematize that business to where it can run without your constant oversight.

6. Continue building that business until it far exceeds your prior job and your expenses

7. Gain knowledge in how to invest your money wisely and then invest the profits of the business.

This is the pathway for many people who become financially free. Whether they like their job or not is irrelevant. Whether they like their business or not is irrelevant. It isn’t their job or their business that is the end goal. It is what the job or business can do for them or ultimately create for them that is the end goal and the job or business was just the pathway they chose to get there.

Some people may say “well I wouldn’t want to do something I don’t like just to earn money,” or “I don’t want to dread going to work,” or “ I would rather be happy than rich,” etc. These people are missing the point. If the goal is financial freedom in order to free yourself up financially to accomplish your life’s purposes, then it obviously takes sacrifices and almost always takes hard work. People who are willing to pay the price, do the hard work, and follow a system that leads to financial independence, can get there. And working towards a meaningful goal, that helps you accomplish your overall purposes in life, in my opinion, gives you something greater than day to day happiness. If gives you fulfillment. I would much rather have the feeling of fulfillment knowing that I have accomplished my purposesses in life than work at a place where I like the job.

@Christopher Lewis thank you for posting. I got out of the military 9 years ago. After that, I finished college and found a secured job. Now I’m working full time and looking to buy small MF in different markets. I’m very shy for some things and very outgoing for others.

What do I mean by all of this? You operate at your own comfort level. If you have a strong enough goal, you will pursue it no matter what and push to expand that comfort level. I'm sure I have a lot of traits that would be an obstacle in REI, but I chose to push through those and keep working to get better in every area, specially the ones that make uncomfortable. I believe my goals are more important than my obstacles. Keep working towards your goals.

First, thank-you for your service.  You said in your opening statement that you didn't mention your service to get a "pat on the back".  Great.  You are getting it anyway...and deserve it.

Second, all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares...and all REI don't have to be entrepreneurs.

There are many ways to be involved in REI.

Third, with your military discipline, you can do anything, or be anything, you want to be. 

Originally posted by @Llewelyn A. :

@Christopher Lewis

I think you can turn that Lemon advice into Lemonade!

The advice to get a secure job doesn't mean you are NOT an entrepreneur if you chose to get a secured job!

Getting a Secured job increases our chance of being a Successful Entrepreneur!

That's exactly what I did 21 years ago!

I graduated College, started working in my profession, took the income and used it as seed money for Real Estate Investments.

Without the secured job, I could not have gotten loans or attracted Partners to expand as much as I have done.

After 6 years of working my secured job very hard, I eventually moved my salary up from an entry level of $32k per year to over $150k per year by 2004, investing all the time, and quit my secured job because I was financially free at that time.

HOWEVER, I have taken the skills of my profession, which is Software Development, and have been building a Software business with a Partner in the field.

Being Financially independent gives you the ability to be a better entrepreneur because you don't have to dependent on a job for our next meal! You will be amazed how great that feels and you can really build a business if you so choose.

The Advice to get a secured job is GREAT advice and I fully recommend it, especially if you already are established in your profession (for example, a Doctor). Why throw away all of that advantage of getting seed money which will eventually speed up your way to being an Entrepreneur?

LLew

 LLew, thanks for writing this - I feel like a lot of people on this site feel shame or embarrassment when the discussion of working a 9-5/6/7 while beginning investing or the first few years. I couldn't agree with you more that working for a few years, saving, investing and polishing your skills set will not hurt you in the long run. Investing and owning a business by nature are marathons, not sprints.

Originally posted by @Christopher Lewis :

@Caleb Heimsoth . I haven't paid him a dime, I met him at an entrepreneurial event through NC State. 

 So you met a guy who I can only assume is more successful than you & he chose to help you out for nothing in return?

When he gave you a straight no nonsense opinion about your situation, personality & skillset you got the egotistical idea in your head that you can / should "fire him" lol. He isn't an employee my man.

If he's a successful guy you should check that ego at the door & just absorb some of the things he's telling you along with the things you can learn from other successful people.

@ChristopherLewis. Another idea to consider is self-mentoring (which can be done in conjunction with mentors and mastermind groups). In my case, I mentor myself by keeping a written journal (ink on paper in the old days, word processor entries in today's world). Jotting down my thoughts as I go along helps me sort out what I'm trying to accomplish and what I need to do to keep myself on course.

The unexpected value of journaling, however, came many years after I started. For example, in my late 20s, I went through a major career change (from engineering to business in a corporate setting). The transition was challenging, but my thoughts were captured regularly on paper. I then went through my second major career change in my late 30s (from business in a corporate setting to business in a self-employed entrepreneurial setting), which was really a full-blown mid-life crisis. To help me navigate this crisis, I learned a lot about myself by re-reading the journal entries I had made 10 years earlier. I ended up "reliving" my late 20s over a period of a few hours with one major difference -- by looking back, I knew how various struggles would end, which is something I could have never known as I was going through them.

Before I tossed out my written journals (I didn't want to move boxes of them across country when I retired), I skimmed them one last time. Although they were written decades ago, they were nearly identical to the entries I make now. Only the "specific details" keep changing. I still think in terms of what I want to get done (sometimes in broad brainstorming mode, other times in specific goals mode), what my fallback plans are if something goes wrong (Murphy's Law and the corollary to Murphy's Law -- "Murphy was an optimist"), and what my potential upside is if everything goes right (it actually happens sometimes).

The self-confidence I've gained from this process has been incredible. I make decisions more quickly now without having to agonize endlessly over second and third level details that don't mean anything in the broader scheme of things. Some people learn this lesson early in life, while for other people like myself, sometimes it takes longer.

Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl :

@Ali Boone  From everything that I have seen, it is a very difficult and a very long process to become financially independent without being an entrepreneur. One of the biggest reasons is because you miss out on the benefits of leverage where you are able to use other people’s time, efforts, talents, and money to create money for you. I’m not just talking about a one man show entrepreneur (who owns more of a job than a business) but I am talking about real entrepreneurs who develop business systems that work and earn them money when the entrepreneur is not there.

@Caleb Heimsoth You are predictable in your negative comments towards paying for education.

@Llewelyn A. I loved your advice about having your secure job provide the seed money for your investments. I think that mindset is not only accurate and realistic, but I think that it can help people have a realistic view of a path to reach financial freedom.

Here is my opinion when it comes to becoming financially independent, or financially free. First, get a high paying job. It does not have to be something you love to do, or that you have a passion for, or that you even like. As long as it doesn’t go against your moral value system, the work itself does not really matter because it is not your end game. Just as many people who went through school didn’t do it because they necessarily loved going through school but they did it for what school was going to give them - a degree, certificate, etc. which would open up opportunities to do something else.

Here is the path that I see people who are financially free take.

1. get a job to support yourself with a flexable schedule (preferably a high paying job)

2. Live frugally during the beginning of the process

3. Accumulate seed money (or get access to seed money which is easier if you have a high paying job already and you have low expenses) 

4. Start a business on the side with a much higher income potential than your job

5. Help that business grow and then systematize that business to where it can run without your constant oversight.

6. Continue building that business until it far exceeds your prior job and your expenses

7. Gain knowledge in how to invest your money wisely and then invest the profits of the business.

This is the pathway for many people who become financially free. Whether they like their job or not is irrelevant. Whether they like their business or not is irrelevant. It isn’t their job or their business that is the end goal. It is what the job or business can do for them or ultimately create for them that is the end goal and the job or business was just the pathway they chose to get there.

Some people may say “well I wouldn’t want to do something I don’t like just to earn money,” or “I don’t want to dread going to work,” or “ I would rather be happy than rich,” etc. These people are missing the point. If the goal is financial freedom in order to free yourself up financially to accomplish your life’s purposes, then it obviously takes sacrifices and almost always takes hard work. People who are willing to pay the price, do the hard work, and follow a system that leads to financial independence, can get there. And working towards a meaningful goal, that helps you accomplish your overall purposes in life, in my opinion, gives you something greater than day to day happiness. If gives you fulfillment. I would much rather have the feeling of fulfillment knowing that I have accomplished my purposesses in life than work at a place where I like the job.

We don’t have to agree on this topic, that we’ve debated many times.  I have no issue paying for education.  I am working on an advanced degree right now.  Education is great and to me is still the surest way to a solid middle class living.  

That being said you have to be smart about it and in my experience most of the REI education is way to expensive for the value it provides. I'm not saying all REI education is like that, just most of what I've seen.

You are welcome to disagree with this and if education for REI works for you, more power to you.

@Steve Vaughan

That’s effing funny. Always reminds me of this.(edited for those with sensitivities)

“I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping (Edit) on disgusting (Edit). People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I'm ****ing retarded but I don't care, I'm beautiful. I'm having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me "Apache" and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can't accept me you're a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

Originally posted by @Roger Steciak :

@ChristopherLewis. Another idea to consider is self-mentoring (which can be done in conjunction with mentors and mastermind groups). In my case, I mentor myself by keeping a written journal (ink on paper in the old days, word processor entries in today's world). Jotting down my thoughts as I go along helps me sort out what I'm trying to accomplish and what I need to do to keep myself on course.

The unexpected value of journaling, however, came many years after I started. For example, in my late 20s, I went through a major career change (from engineering to business in a corporate setting). The transition was challenging, but my thoughts were captured regularly on paper. I then went through my second major career change in my late 30s (from business in a corporate setting to business in a self-employed entrepreneurial setting), which was really a full-blown mid-life crisis. To help me navigate this crisis, I learned a lot about myself by re-reading the journal entries I had made 10 years earlier. I ended up "reliving" my late 20s over a period of a few hours with one major difference -- by looking back, I knew how various struggles would end, which is something I could have never known as I was going through them.

Before I tossed out my written journals (I didn't want to move boxes of them across country when I retired), I skimmed them one last time. Although they were written decades ago, they were nearly identical to the entries I make now. Only the "specific details" keep changing. I still think in terms of what I want to get done (sometimes in broad brainstorming mode, other times in specific goals mode), what my fallback plans are if something goes wrong (Murphy's Law and the corollary to Murphy's Law -- "Murphy was an optimist"), and what my potential upside is if everything goes right (it actually happens sometimes).

The self-confidence I've gained from this process has been incredible. I make decisions more quickly now without having to agonize endlessly over second and third level details that don't mean anything in the broader scheme of things. Some people learn this lesson early in life, while for other people like myself, sometimes it takes longer.

 Started journaling about a year and a half ago, it has really improved my life. Helps me keep in sight what's important, and be honest with myself about both goals as well as fears and emotions. Can't recommend it highly enough to other folks. 

I ask myself what is that I want to do? Do I have 6 months saving if I have no income. Who is paying for rent(mortgage) and put food on the table.  Most military people start another career for decades and decide to do others things or have fun being your own boss.... Talk to your family.  In our area realtors, flippers haver disappeared since industry pays up to 6 figures as a trainee in high tech. Most have RSO, benefits.

I would not let anyone define where my life was headed but me. 

I lost my leg at 14.  My mom told me to live of SSI because "what if my condition worsened?" I have been employed full time since 16 and am now 34.  I refused to live (Exist) at home waiting for the 1st of the month.  For me that is not a life!  

I had a long time dream of becoming a Real Estate Broker.  People said I should not because I am disabled.  I went to college, and also got my real estate license all while being a single mom and working full time.  I refuse to live my life based on other peoples limiting beliefs of myself.  Neither should you.

Originally posted by @Christopher Lewis :

FI as in Financial Independence. He had me take a personality test and said that I would fit better as a Financial Analyst or Consultant than as an Entrepreneur.

 I somewhat agree with him. I don't know what job you are temperamentally suited for...but if you are "chasing financial independence" there is a very good chance you won't find it. The most successful people don't start businesses with the intent to get rich. They do it because they love it, they see value in it, want to build something, they feel driven to do it, etc. 

If you are simply chasing dollars, you most likely will spend your life chasing them. Never actually getting anywhere. Never accomplishing things, never building anything. I did this for a long time....looking for the quick, shortcut to money. He might be saying quit looking for the shortcut....go do these jobs to gain experience and knowledge before you think you can just skip to the independence part.

Financial independence shouldn't be your goal.  Choose the right goal, chase that goal, be really excellent at it, and money will be the natural outcome of being excellent at your chosen business or endeavor...or it might not.

And by the way, those are not "his ideals". That is his recommendation for you. His ideals are... is he honest, does he believe in screwing people over, etc.

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