Snake oils, gurus, “investment advisers”, experts. BP can do more

112 Replies

Originally posted by @Alexander Felice :

@Jerryll Noorden I'm half offended

on one hand, if all you love about me is my hair I consider that a dominating win

but on the other hand, We've been posting next to each for ~4 years and i get exclusively dismissed for love EXCEPT for my hair 

I'm a bit hurt to be honest

also, you definitely said more than one thing. That's just math 

 Can I brush it? Will that make you feel better?

(I WOULD!!) I dare you to let me!

Originally posted by @John Hickey :

@Jerryll Noorden you know that I mentioned you because while i liked that the guy was calling someone out....

it was hilarious how you blew his house down in that post.

Epic.

Btw....Hey any beach house leads

....and did you call Vic the 35$ psf installed white quartz guy?

If so what do you think. I love him.

 Dude I got a house for you under contract but the seller, decided to keep it after I arranged everything because his brother wants to try flipping.

[insert eyeroll]

Search is on going. I won;t let you down my man. Yeah I called your granite guy. He is no joke man! Thank you thank you!

Originally posted by @Chad McLeod :
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Chad McLeod:

I think at a minimum there should be a feedback system here on BP with positive/negative/neutral options.  I agree with others that it is not BP's responsibility to vet new members.  And I think their stance of not getting involved in disputes would make perfect sense if there was some sort of transparency around a rating system from other members.  It's up to people on here to do their own research for sure, but part of that research should be from people on here who have firsthand experience with the member in question. 

Rating systems are bogus because they get exploited. Amazon product reviews are a great example. They used to be objective, but now they are dominated by paid reviewers and fake accounts. There was a guy on BP who was talking up his company and had several people give testimony to how great his company was. Every account had been opened in the last couple days and their ONLY post was supporting this company. I called BS on it and he got mad, claiming BP was out to get him. Come to find out this character had a history on BP and people had open lawsuits against him. BP knows who many of the questionable people are. Sometimes leaving their posts up is the best way to document their behavior. Then anyone searching the internet can find the information. At least they know to ask questions.  

Could BP do better? They are trying. Some of you may have noticed the "Top Subjects" listed by a user now. This is an algorithm designed to show categories that a poster is an expert in. They are still tweaking it. I have almost 5000 posts and the algorithm says I am an expert in nothing. Maybe the computer is right, haha. Nothing is perfect, but personally I think the format on BP is pretty good for the forums. 

Thank you for the response, Joe.  I appreciate it.

I guess what I'm envisioning, and maybe this could be exploited on this site so take it FWIW, but I am a member of another site where people post items for sale.  When someone purchases an item they leave a review and use the URL of the item they purchased.  The seller also leaves a review using the same URL.  Now, there are plenty of times when people are lazy and don't leave a review at all.  But by and large the community works REALLY well because members can look at past reviews and kind of go from there.  The people with a lot of positive reviews are known as good sellers, and the people who have a lot of negative reviews typically don't get anyone's business or they may get outright banned.

Now, this site I mention isn't selling houses, so maybe this is an apples to oranges comparison.  But if someone on here provides a service I guess I was viewing a feedback system similar to that one.  If I'm crazy feel free to tell me

Thanks again for the information!

 

Not crazy. I mean Ebay has used buyer/seller reviews since the dawn of the internet. AirBNB uses guest and host reviews. You can review people on Zillow. Yelp reviews are out there for every business, of course bring up Yelp to a business owner and they either love or hate it, most hate it. Sometimes reviews are used by bad customers who want to take revenge on a business because the business wouldn't let them do what they wanted. This happens to property management companies all the time. Angry tenants or rejected applicants (what do mean you rejected me with my 450 credit score and three pit bull). You are right there are many systems out there, some better than others. Definitely something BP could look at, but it is above my pay grade (mods are volunteer, haha). 

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock :
Originally posted by @Chad McLeod:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Chad McLeod:

I think at a minimum there should be a feedback system here on BP with positive/negative/neutral options.  I agree with others that it is not BP's responsibility to vet new members.  And I think their stance of not getting involved in disputes would make perfect sense if there was some sort of transparency around a rating system from other members.  It's up to people on here to do their own research for sure, but part of that research should be from people on here who have firsthand experience with the member in question. 

Rating systems are bogus because they get exploited. Amazon product reviews are a great example. They used to be objective, but now they are dominated by paid reviewers and fake accounts. There was a guy on BP who was talking up his company and had several people give testimony to how great his company was. Every account had been opened in the last couple days and their ONLY post was supporting this company. I called BS on it and he got mad, claiming BP was out to get him. Come to find out this character had a history on BP and people had open lawsuits against him. BP knows who many of the questionable people are. Sometimes leaving their posts up is the best way to document their behavior. Then anyone searching the internet can find the information. At least they know to ask questions.  

Could BP do better? They are trying. Some of you may have noticed the "Top Subjects" listed by a user now. This is an algorithm designed to show categories that a poster is an expert in. They are still tweaking it. I have almost 5000 posts and the algorithm says I am an expert in nothing. Maybe the computer is right, haha. Nothing is perfect, but personally I think the format on BP is pretty good for the forums. 

Thank you for the response, Joe.  I appreciate it.

I guess what I'm envisioning, and maybe this could be exploited on this site so take it FWIW, but I am a member of another site where people post items for sale.  When someone purchases an item they leave a review and use the URL of the item they purchased.  The seller also leaves a review using the same URL.  Now, there are plenty of times when people are lazy and don't leave a review at all.  But by and large the community works REALLY well because members can look at past reviews and kind of go from there.  The people with a lot of positive reviews are known as good sellers, and the people who have a lot of negative reviews typically don't get anyone's business or they may get outright banned.

Now, this site I mention isn't selling houses, so maybe this is an apples to oranges comparison.  But if someone on here provides a service I guess I was viewing a feedback system similar to that one.  If I'm crazy feel free to tell me

Thanks again for the information!

 

Not crazy. I mean Ebay has used buyer/seller reviews since the dawn of the internet. AirBNB uses guest and host reviews. You can review people on Zillow. Yelp reviews are out there for every business, of course bring up Yelp to a business owner and they either love or hate it, most hate it. Sometimes reviews are used by bad customers who want to take revenge on a business because the business wouldn't let them do what they wanted. This happens to property management companies all the time. Angry tenants or rejected applicants (what do mean you rejected me with my 450 credit score and three pit bull). You are right there are many systems out there, some better than others. Definitely something BP could look at, but it is above my pay grade (mods are volunteer, haha). 

Ok, I hear ya.  And yeah most review sites I take with a huge grain of salt because the complaints are often ridiculous, or the positive reviews might be written by someone who actually works for that company (my last employer actually encouraged employees to leave multiple positive reviews online <eye roll>).  

The site I was talking about is a little different because by using the URL it allows everyone to see the entire thread from the person who lists the item to the person who agrees to buy it.  From there each person has to log in with their password to leave a review.  But anyway, I don't know all the logistics behind it so I'm mainly just thinking out loud.

Thanks again for responding.

 

@Sarah Hooff two favors.

True or false.......I did buy in some the worst blocks of newburgh

And yes or no.......

Do I manage to make things change for the better?

I’m not sure you ever heard that 222 broadway was the worst building in the city....so not asking you about that.

ERRR not everyone’s better but the good folks. People with kids that want to sit on their steps without seeing junkies with needles sticking out of their arms.

People that want to park their cars with out hookers so populous you can’t drive your car.

(not asking you to endorse my methods)

@Jerryll Noorden your the man.

I found two deals on foot yesterday. One is sick.

Drug, drug, drug area.

Good thing was my old druggies had moved there and they had gotten a little nostalgic and there was hand shakes and hugs.

So if you don’t find me and my wife a beach house I’ll buy 7 units on the the new worst street in newburgh.

There is going to be a murder tho if I don’t buy a beach house before I buy another crack den.

@John Hickey:  


Really enjoyed reading your stories about cleaning up the streets of Newburgh.  One of my business associates is from there and he said pretty much what you did about the high crime areas.  Keep up the good work!  

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock :
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

@Joe Splitrock What I wonder if anyone remembers...Thomas actually use to have a different screen name a few years ago.  I suspected that his screen name change had to do something with his tenants, and I asked but he never responded to it.

His real name is Greg S. and he is a landlord in Ontario Canada. I think he was in his late 60's. I asked several times how many properties he had and he would never really share any details. 

My theory was that in real life he was a push over teddy bear and the tough "I don't have emotion" personality was his web persona only. Or he is a total jerk in real life, who knows.

while we are talking about past members there was another guy.. who talked a very big game..  and one night he says.. Hey you know I pay 4500 a month just in expenses in my G 4  ..  I kind of figured this guy was full of it.. and he had a lot of the younger members following him and talked a great game.. So I said 4500 an hour to fly that G 4 right not a month.. he responds OH ya that's right per hour I have a full time pilot..  At that point I said Hey dude your full of it..  A G 4 is a 20 million dollar plus plane that will cost you 25 k to 40k an hour to operate so never really saw him post after that.. he was somewhere north of ATL there is a big lake there and he talk about his lakefront home and other nice trappings of wealth..  I know there are plenty of very wealthy folks that follow and respond on this site there is no question.. but he was just not real.   

 

LinkedIn has a feature where any user can "endorse" a user they are connected to, for a particular skillset. For example I could endorse my colleague Jack for "Project Management." The endorsements are posted (in aggregated form to make it anonymous) on the user's public profile. I.e. Jack's profile would say "5 people have endorsed Jack for Project Management."

I wonder if BP could copy that. 

Originally posted by @John Hickey :

@Tom Shallcross i don’t think it’s a nice idea...more like a necessity to continue to thrive.

Snake oils salesman and gurus have always been here. But the size of the site and mass of posts now allows them to grow in number unchecked.

and I def don’t think it’s so difficult to accomplish. We’re not talking about reviving dead people here.....you e never done anything difficult? Oh you have. So you know nothing worth doing is easy. Good.

people

In the top of my in market laugh when they hear what I’m thinking of doing or call me crazy. Is that the way you are or your a run of the mill guy. Nothing wrong with either here....I’m always careful of being too comfortable.

Btw that’s def a metric I measure....how ridiculous ppl who are good at what they do think of what I plan.  

I think it’s impossible to have a top tier new biz while everyone else thinks what your doing is normal.

@John Hickey -Fascinating Idea! "a metric I measure....how ridiculous ppl who are good at what they do think of what I plan."  Well said.


 

Originally posted by @Chad McLeod :
Originally posted by @Russ B.:
Originally posted by @Chad McLeod:

I think at a minimum there should be a feedback system here on BP with positive/negative/neutral options.  I agree with others that it is not BP's responsibility to vet new members.  And I think their stance of not getting involved in disputes would make perfect sense if there was some sort of transparency around a rating system from other members.  It's up to people on here to do their own research for sure, but part of that research should be from people on here who have firsthand experience with the member in question. 

 Also, don't forget that there exist things like exit scams. They're rarer because the scammer has to take time to become respected in the community, but the amount taken at the end can be much larger. There are also legit people that fall on hard times for whatever reason and resort to fraud. 

That's why it's important to do your due diligence in every transaction - especially the ones that differ from the norm. 

True.  And I'm not saying I have the perfect solution or anything like that.  But I think AN attempt at transparency is better than no attempt.  

And just for full disclosure for everyone, when I reached out to BP I never said there was an issue or a problem or argument, etc. I simply said I hadn't heard from the other member for a long time and was asking if they could help or give me suggestions.  That's when they wrote back and said they don't get involved in member disputes.  It felt very much like they were trying to wash their hands of any potential issue from the get-go.  Others may disagree with me, but to me that's just not a good look.

 

 As long as you are making a truthful post describing an interaction or transaction without editorializing or attacking the member, you can post a review of your experience even if it's a moderator, podcast host, site blogger, guru, etc. I know of at least a few members who were disavowed because of the reported experiences of BP members. 

@Davido Davido thanks man.

If average guys say it’s hard...it’s too easy for me.

If really top of the pyramid ppl say it cant be done....

Well then I’m going to say that I’ll consider doing that. Because if the tops in a market think it’s impossible it’s a good goal to consider.

So in reality Ill have to cop to this Statement. Maybe I do care what some ppl think.

Maybe I only care what a few...the most important people think.

Let me consider that.

@Steven Lowe

Thanks. On some of the deals I did there....I bought 3 million dollars in 2 years

I

I lost money. Plus I spent thousands of hours to get to lose money.

So is that terrible?

No. my investors made money.

And I cleaned up the neighborhood.

So 2 out of 3 ain’t that bad.

Really enjoyed reading your stories about cleaning up the streets of Newburgh. One of my business associates is from there and he said pretty much what you did about the high crime areas. Keep up the good work! 

@John Hickey It is a fascinating proposal; however, BP is basically like a tiny America [1.5M strong], right? 

Everybody has a voice and, for the most part, all users have Freedom of Speech unless they are straight lying or causing harm to other users, hence why we have the Mods. 

In addition, I think the Voting system allows the whole community to judge both opinions and facts. Honestly, I think that is the beauty of the site and we definitely don't want to over-censor. It could get boring quick... No one wants to read a site full of facts and facts (I guess there are other sites for that). The occasional batter, interesting comments and randomness do add some flavour to the community. I think this is the Competitive Edge of BP

Originally posted by @John Hickey :

Being on the podcast can be BS  

I see guys on here getting podcasts on BP that have the personal Investing experience of a first time home buyer.


You don't realize the guests on the podcasts are full of it until it's someone you're familiar with who is doing business in your market. Not just the BP podcast, but other big-time "credible" podcasts as well. I've always thought podcast guests should be vetted more thoroughly, but no one cares as long as they get downloads. I remember yelling at the radio in my truck one day at a guest on a non-BP podcast who I knew for a fact was lying due to previous experience with him. It kinda ruins the whole podcast once you hear something like that.

@Matthew B.  

Yes yes yes.  I’m not trying to stick some small guy here.....I’m trying to say hey wake up.  This guy that your celebrating and telling newbies to adore...he’s a fake.   

He knows it....I know it.  The interviewer might have known it.....er or maybe not.  But listen.  Mistakes are ok just fix it.  Let everyone know the guy is a BS artist.  

@Brett Tvenge Hahahah. BP bridge investors would like that!!!

That’s a good idea tho. Maybe let folks with the newbie badge post Qs and deal critiques. 

Nah I’m nuts but I’m also pretty anonymous In my neighborhood.  


There is some stuff that I don’t share here.  Nothing crazy.  What I posted above is the crazy part. Little things.  

Here’s one.  Ok so you have a neighbor.  And he doesn’t give a crap about his property. It’s vacant.  


He Tells the druggies they can sit on his steps.  Doesn’t mind that they use his back yard to shoot up.  Hookers can sleep in his basemt.  Doesn’t care.  Building Dept, fire Dept, cops.....mayors office no one cares.  

You can’t do anything right?

Know what? Most of those buildings that age in NY have lead paint.  So first I ask him to sell.  No? Next I call up epa tip line or county health Dept and report he’s got lead paint chipping.  Take that to the building Dept.  Make sure that gets into the court system. Unlimited liability in NYS with lead.  


Still don’t want to sell? everyone has a pressure point.  Juts try something else.  

Vacants are the enemy in my area.  When I get rid of a vacant property value goes up.  

This post has been removed.

this sounds like some Chinese social ranking system. I think it’s a terrible idea, let’s have an open platform devoid of any nanny-state influence. Also BP isn’t broke, they don’t need a new system.

I view this idea as part of a disturbing and growing trend of social groupthink authoritarianism of which certain political types seem overly fond of in a ostensible effort to correct “wrong-think”.

Originally posted by @John Hickey :

@Russell Brazil BP there are forums that dwarves BP and have rankings. I’m sure you probably have membership in one.

You say impossible?

I don't think of anything as impossible. Not worth doing maybe. Too much time or energy and not enough ROI....membership doesn't meed it many reasons not to do it. It impossible!Nothing is impossible.

 Which forums are you referring too specifically? How does this ranking system work?

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