Snake oils, gurus, “investment advisers”, experts. BP can do more

112 Replies

I saw a post that the other day where a BP member called out another member and accused him of being...full of shot....good stuff. Because it’s good when you know someone is watching.

Is it possible @biggerpocketsmods that you could start some sort of rankings for folks...like they post up info in stuff they own and sold or rent out so newbies wouldn’t be so in the dark as to who to listen to...

@Account Closed - It's a nice idea and I like what you're trying to accomplish, but it's unreasonable for BP to monitor every user's investments.  Besides, people who want to be deceitful can easily just make up investments on their page or find other alternative tricks to game whatever algorithm is established.  (Also does someone with 50 wholesale deals score higher than someone who owns 2 10 unit apartments?  It becomes very subjective very quickly)  

I don't take the posts/votes as end-all-be-all, but it does show someone's commitment/years of experience to the site along with the forum's collective opinion of their posts.  

The good news is there are a still a ton of good nuggets, just have to avoid some of the content which you correctly mentioned is easy to find here. 

<----  I find that the vote metric is a good one.  I generally consult the posts/votes ratio when deciding whether to trust someone's advice, but I also too always remember that I am consulting random strangers on the internet, no offense meant.

- JM

Mod Here.....it isnt really possible to vet everyone.  There are almost 1.5 million registered members on the site.  If you read the site a lot, it becomes pretty apparent who knows their stuff and who doesnt.  A lot of the people you see with particularly high post counts, most of those individuals we all know each other in real life and in many cases do business together with each other.  There are always going to be bottom feeders too that try to build their reputation by taking shots at the big fish, so always keep that in mind. 

And if you are looking to do business with someone, dont trust them simply because they are on this site. Do your proper due diligence. And in most cases ask yourself the question, why would this person want to do a deal with me. If there is no logical reason, it may be a scam.

I would agree with @Russell Brazil (as a mod as well). One of the problems is that even if we asked people to post their investments and the like, it would be hard to verify them. We'll remove sales pitches and the like, but the main thing I would recommend is to not to take any one person's advise as gospel. There are a lot of people here on BP with experience and the best way to gain something from the site is to try to learn from a variety of investors.

@Tom Shallcross i don’t think it’s a nice idea...more like a necessity to continue to thrive.

Snake oils salesman and gurus have always been here. But the size of the site and mass of posts now allows them to grow in number unchecked.

and I def don’t think it’s so difficult to accomplish. We’re not talking about reviving dead people here.....you e never done anything difficult? Oh you have. So you know nothing worth doing is easy. Good.

people

In the top of my in market laugh when they hear what I’m thinking of doing or call me crazy. Is that the way you are or your a run of the mill guy. Nothing wrong with either here....I’m always careful of being too comfortable.

Btw that’s def a metric I measure....how ridiculous ppl who are good at what they do think of what I plan.

I think it’s impossible to have a top tier new biz while everyone else thinks what your doing is normal.

BP is great. But what I’m saying is it needs to be better. Will it listen to me? Who knows. I don’t care. I’ll say it anyway.

So they don’t have to do it.

@Tom Shallcross I was talking to a seller today and he asked me if I had money to close in a week. I said yeah I do. But title takes three weeks. Then he said oh yeah how many house do you own...I told them. He pulled out a computer and asked me the adresss and proceeded to look me up on the county website....if I didn't own what I said I was full of it. Took 30 seconds for him to get to the first property. Unreasonable? Vetting would be a service that BP delivers. Any service company that is unreasonable about the level of service they provide is in my experience unstoppable.

Originally posted by @John Hickey:

I saw a post that the other day where a BP member called out another member and accused him of being...full of shot....good stuff. Because it’s good when you know someone is watching.

Is it possible @biggerpocketsmods that you could start some sort of rankings for folks...like they post up info in stuff they own and sold or rent out so newbies wouldn’t be so in the dark as to who to listen to...

 If you want to call moderators attention to a thread, just mention us like Beetlejuice :) . 

As for your post, that kind of exists anyway with vote and post totals. It's not guaranteed or foolproof, but it takes a long time and a lot of interaction to generate large numbers of both. In that time, a lot of other members will have experience to share.

Beyond that, as Russell noted, it's impossible for us to monitor anything like that even if we wanted to. There are a million members and 4 figures of posts virtually every day. 



@Russell Brazil BP there are forums that dwarves BP and have rankings. I’m sure you probably have membership in one.

You say impossible?

I don't think of anything as impossible. Not worth doing maybe. Too much time or energy and not enough ROI....membership doesn't meed it many reasons not to do it. It impossible!Nothing is impossible.

@JM Payne the votes can be a popularity contest. I’m not sure of the stats but I would say many of the folks here haven’t done 15 deals. 50 deals. And if they did did they make a million?

So each vote isn’t equal. Some folks votes count for more in real life....but they don’t count for more here.

as soon as you start having BP mods assigning credibility of users, they take on the liability of being wrong and they take on the assignment of censoring who we think isn't credible. 

Is that what you really want, a dozen volunteers to decide for everyone who is legit and who is not? Slippery slope my friend. 

Plus, the point of this website is to educate and empower people to learn about real estate. Members should do their own due diligence and have a deep understanding of investing principles before just blindly accepting what a stranger online has to say.

If the mod team starts coddling it's members away from any sharp objects then they won't develop the calluses necessary to succeed in such a harsh world.

The best thing a persona can do to protect yourself against charlatans is to read enough books to realize that most people are wrong about most things, most of the time. Be mad skeptical yo! 

Votes are BS guys.  Hands down.  


Being on the podcast can be BS  

Posting here 100 Times a day unless your jay hinrichs can be bs.  

I see guys on here getting podcasts on BP that have the personal Investing experience of a first time home buyer.

@Alexander Felice  

I agree the mods shouldn’t do it themselves.  Too much work. 

If it’s worth doing it would be an algorithm.  

@jdmartin...mods? Yeah that’s why I mentioned them.... 

Sure.  Votes count.  Posts count.  But what really counts? Buying holding fixing flipping selling paying bills.  Doin Deals.  Like fico for investors.....verified deal doers could verify other deal doers   References   

There are folks on here that people look up to that have done 0   It’s ok   Doesn’t affect me   But it not impossible to change  

put your last deal or every deal in your signature or a searchable spot.  

Above. Points or whatever ranking could be earned this way.

Want to see a deal?

Look up 16 pleasant avenue Pleasantville NY. Purchased 325k 2015 sold 612k 2016

6 months holding. Sounds awesome right?

Lawsuits, overages poor planning lost over 100k.

But you know what? If I did 10 deals like that I’d be out of business.

Here’s another. 54 benkard 12550. Bought may of 2017 47k sold 2018 159k. And I don’t lose on that one.

And you know what I suck. I’m sure there are 50k users at least on here that are way better then me.

If you guys can figure out a way to get rankings tied to real life deals....then you would filter bs info from your users and provide even more massive value.

Welp.  Some people don't need 15 deals to understand their little corner of the world and/or provide some help to somebody further back in line. 

I don't know your motivation but, if it's to help people, then I'd focus on answering questions, making connections, and mentoring someone new as opposed to trying to rank users based on arbitrary metrics and stroking egos.  You'll slowly gain a reputation and stand out above the rest over time.  Did you think it all happens instantly?  Like a "get rep quick" scheme?  :P

@JM Payne Votes? That matters to you?  And the rest of what you said? I don’t think too much of it.  I won’t hold it against you but it’s BS to me  

If I cared or even looked at how many votes I got I’d want someone to give me a good hard punch in the face to wake me up.  

I hope That You get a lot of votes of on your post. Sounds like it means something to you.  

Know what matters to me? I buy stuff fix it rent it out take care of tenants. Sit at a closing table And give the seller my adress at home.  Give him my cell.  Go to the house if there are problems. 

I do show people what I do.  I don’t need any followers.  Do I have them? What do you think? Guess what I don’t care   

Fell free to stick around and post After this.  Don’t mind if I ignore you.  

I will Say this.  You think I’m stroking my ego? Good for you. Maybe you should work on yours.  


Thanks, I will. 

For what it's worth, your post/count ratio shows (to me) that you are reasonably knowledgeable and, in viewing your profile, I am intrigued by the concept of what you've billed as "war zone investing." I'd read that book, especially when I consider neighborhoods like Petersburg (VA,) Baltimore (MD,) Detroit (MI,) etc, etc, etc. Good luck out there.

- JM

@JM Payne for what’s it’s with from now on when I see your posts I will continue to ignore you.  

I’m big on avoiding negative bs.  


So while I will ignore your content......as long as I see your name and remember what transpired I’ll vote for your posts so that you get what your looking for.  

@JD Martin I believe my response to Russell Addressed what you brought up.  

Agree or no?

You guys aren’t on any forums with rankings....city data for instance.  

Well it seems OP has some kind of ulterior agenda here, I'm not sure what.

Biggerpockets is a COMMUNITY and all (most) are welcome to participate. I get that you think some people should be allowed to post and some people shouldn't based on what you find valuable and you don't but that's not the purpose, goal, or point of this place. 

If you want to help new users, please do, if you want to correct wrong users, please do. This mission you're on to create social hierarchy based on perceived expertise is not something I would be an advocate for. There is a place for that online, this ain't it. 

Let me ask you guys a question...Payne feel  free but I won’t respond......

Alot of my first post was kidding.... I don’t care if anyone thinks I’m an expert   I posted a deal above that I lost 100k on.  And I told you about it.    


So what kind of expert status am I going for? Tops at losing money?


  Yeah I’m number one loser on pleasant ave in Pville.  


Where’s my trophy????? that’s why I brought that up.   

Know what that does? So people to ask me what I did wrong.  So I can help them lose less then I did.  




I  read some of the stuff on this site and I’m like holy cow this guys is so trying to hook people to his scam.  

And then the posts stay up....and people that aren’t very sharp take them up on it   30k lessons on how to buy a duplex   

Like I said above maybe it’s not worth doing because it doesn’t provide enough value....but too hard? Really? 

@Alexander Felice  

I didn’t say perceived.  

The rest of what you said...agenda and all that after...your a mod so if you have some mod stuff to tell me mod away otherwise. 

Noted and no response.  

Originally posted by @Account Closed  

I didn’t say perceived.  

The rest of what you said...agenda and all that after...your a mod so if you have some mod stuff to tell me mod away otherwise. 

Noted and no response.  


You just sound angry for no reason. 

I don't get it. All the mods came in here and saw what you have to say, and made their peace. What's your end game here?? I'm only still here cuz I like to scuffle. 

If you want BP to be better, then mods 100% agree with you and that's why we are all working on it all the time. 

Actions produce solutions, complaints produce zilch. 

I sound angry? I could be wrong.

 I think your Your misreading that.  

I can be very angry.  I’ll Give you A recent example.  I caught a guy stealing copper from my building.  I punched him in the face, then we wrestled. He started to overpower me. The guys that worked from me I told to stay out of it.  I punched him a bit more.  He started to strangle me.  As I was realizing I couldn’t breathe I pushed the two of us down the stairs.  When we landed i put my thumb in his eye.  Then I pulled out pepper spray spritzed him. Punched him some more.  Dragged him out of my building.  Called the cops.  He started to get up.  I went and kicked him in the nuts till he stopped moving.   He is 23 I’m 46.  He’s 220 I’m 170. but I can be a real Menacing individual.

I’m a  Product of butch hickey.  That’s my dad. He’s an 80 Excon from the south Bronx that raised me.  

You like to lecture it sounds like.  He’s about the only guy I’ll let lecture me.    so that what I said no response.  I was just letting you know I wasn’t paying attention to you. 

I’m not angry if I was it wouldn’t be hard to tell.  I’m not good at hiding anger.  One of my shortcomings.  

End game? This is a continuing game here.  This is entertainment.  I was thinking about something for a while and posted about it. 

People responded.  Most of them I respected their response.  I’ve interwctwd with some of them in the past.  Others I’ve just seen thier posts for the 5 or 6 years I’ve been here.  

You and the other guy? Not so much. I don’t know you and what you said didn’t mean much to me. It was like noise in the background. 

  But listen.  Don’t take it personal.  It’s not.  And what you said above? All that stuff about zilch, agenda, whatever else you said...well that’s why I said no response.  It didn’t need one from me. It was your opinion. your welcome to it.  

You like to scuffle? Well that’s interesting.  Vegas is far but i get out there sometimes.