Petition for BP to Discontinue Wholesaling Discussions...

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Dan Oliver
Residential Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 139 posts · 106 votes
11y

I'm not sure why I'm even responding to this insulting post but since you've hit a nerve, I'm going to try.  Wholesales and wholesalers are an intricate part for many investors.  Considering we move 30-50 properties a month to our investors may show that wholesalers play an important role for many investors.  We work to provide quality investments and take over  all the hard work and time it takes to acquire properties for our investors that don't have the time, desire or knowledge to accomplish.  Sure, there are bad seeds out there in the wholesale world, but there are bad seeds in every aspect of business.  I find BP to be an incredible resource for me as an investor and a wholesaler.  For you to want to begin a petition to rid posts and forums about a particular side of investing seems selfish and a little "one sided".  I can only assume you've had a bad experience, but to burn the industry as a whole really doesn't provide much credibility on your part.

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dennis Pressey Jr:

    I have not read this beyond the first post/op.

    Is this a truly serious idea or are you trolling?

    What a silly idea...

     Maybe you should have read more than the first post?

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y

    I've noticed that, for some reason, most of the "flames" directed towards @Brandon Sturgill have come from newbies, those that have less than 250 posts, and those that admitted to NOT reading more than the original post.

    I wonder why (he says winking)?

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  • Dennis Pressey Jr
    Specialist · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 69 votes
    11y

    @Joe Villeneuve No. Interested in the trending topic, but not interested in reading 9 pages. :)

    Looking to see if this was a serious proposal.

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dennis Pressey Jr:

    @Joe Villeneuve No. Interested in the trending topic, but not interested in reading 9 pages. :)

    Looking to see if this was a serious proposal.

     1 post....9 pages...I'm thinking the USA Today approach may not tell you what you are looking for.  Maybe somewhere in between.

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  • Dennis Pressey Jr
    Specialist · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 69 votes
    11y

    @Joe 

    @Joe Villeneuve sleep in a rock bed or what? What is your issue.

    The original post, is absurd.

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dennis Pressey Jr:

    @Joe 

    @Joe Villeneuve sleep in a rock bed or what? What is your issue.

    The original post, is absurd.

     The original post triggered a long (9 page) discussion about wholesaling...the good, the bad, and the ugly.  I noticed from your profile that you say you are a wholesaler (among other things).  I too wholesale at times.  Maybe you could have (can) contribute to the conversation...but, maybe not.

    Just don't blast an entire post (9 page) post based on the USA Today method of filtering.  @Brandon Sturgill is a standup guy, and doesn't deserve the abuse.  We have not always agreed, but that isn't important.

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  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Bill Gulley - I agree. It seems like the quality of posts has gone down. Though, I don't think that quality of the good information has changed so much as the quantity of bad information has doubled, thereby obscuring things...

    This, interestingly enough, is reflective of the audience, Bill. BP is in fact a social network, and the type and quality of engagement is a function of the audience. The audience has grown dramatically with @Brandon Turner's arrival, and his vision of this as a social platform. 

    Bill - the bigger perspective is this: BP interactions and audience is indicative of the marketplace itself. What does this mean? 

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  • John HornerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @Dan Oliver That's a direct conflict of your fiduciary responsibility...the whole point of being a licensee...so you disregard the best interest of the individual you are seeking to acquire a property from...I have issue with that.

    Do you perform a CMA for all the folks you acquire wholesale properties from...or do you attempt to get the best price so you can profit...are you listing these on MLS...are you taking title?...

     I would disagree, the point of a LISTING AGREEMENT is to have the sellers best interest, the point of becoming an agent is to abide by the law when dealing with real estate transactions for a fee.

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @David Wurzel Thanks for participating...though I think you missed the point of this thread. Just like you, I use BP for knowledge...this is a controversial topic (as evident by the participation). These types of conversations need to occur to keep the balance...

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Joseph Coach you got it...;)

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Dean Letfus thanks for jumping in...at the end of the day, wholesalers are the bottom-feeders of the REI world...nothing personal, but let's focus on an industry that (believe it or not I have respect for)....but only for the tenacity and the ability to problem solve. Start out in RE wholesaling, but man, you gotta graduate to something better eventually...

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Mary B. ********...let's take a look at the real numbers and continue the conversation...

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Jason Farmer C'mon...you can do better than that...:)

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  • Dennis Pressey Jr
    Specialist · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 69 votes
    11y

    I contribute to the forums and network with people like others - I also pay my dues to be apart of this forum. 

    Anyhow - the original post did not and does not even deserve me to be here this long, however I do not want a misconception of what I said.

    This thread put wholesalers in a negative light and seemed silly, imo. I could not imagine this forum entertaining that as a real idea - as much as I've learned here on the subject.

    Thanks @Joe Villeneuve

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Good looking out @Joe Villeneuve with age comes wisdom...always appreciate the perspective and knowledgeable contributions. 

    @Dennis Pressey Jr at the end of the day...I want to gain perspective...which I got a lot of here. One (of my many) points is that wholesaling (if done correctly and professionally) is a viable means of income. That said, it remains a practice overshadowed in controversy for good reason.

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  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @John Horner can you expand a bit?...thanks

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  • Dennis Pressey Jr
    Specialist · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 69 votes
    11y

    @Brandon Sturgill 

    A wholesaler, real estate agent, investor, etc are all just names for a position...

    The issue at hand is SOLUTION. It does not matter if you are a Licensed Agent or Broker. Or just a "measly" wholesaler who places themselves in RE at minimal risk - the idea is creating solutions. THIS IS WHY YOU GET PAID.

    Why should a wholesaler not get paid? If they...

    Got the lead. Got to the bottom of the issue at hand holding the property hostage. Found a true win-win resolution. Acted fast on that resolution. Completed the deal.

    As would apply to any other career type...

    I find real estate agents (lumped together) to be a pretty lazy, disorganized, mis-trained or non-trained group of "Licensees" running around here "playing" real estate. Meanwhile..offers are lost, deals are botched, and people are sued.

    This happens with wholesalers, mortgage brokers, car salesman...it happens in life.

    I don't think any honest, creative, successful real estate problem solver would like to be lumped into some lazy stereotypical "wholesaler" group any more than a Licensed Agent would.

    Example: One deal I know of. Listing agent L expired. Shuffles papers to relative agent, whites out info/names/etc. swaps theirs in. In a bank involved process no less!...

    My 02...it is everywhere!

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dennis Pressey Jr:

    I contribute to the forums and network with people like others - I also pay my dues to be apart of this forum. 

    Anyhow - the original post did not and does not even deserve me to be here this long, however I do not want a misconception of what I said.

    This thread put wholesalers in a negative light and seemed silly, imo. I could not imagine this forum entertaining that as a real idea - as much as I've learned here on the subject.

    Thanks @Joe Villeneuve

     Understood, however, if you would have read more than the headline you would have found a rather interesting discussion, AND, a great platform to make your points regarding wholesaling....mixed in with the inevitable garbage

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    @Ben Leybovich

    Ben, it means the industry is in a world hurt.

    Every generation complains about the two or three after them, my dad thought it was the end of the world when the Beatles landed and we tried to grow our hair longer. 

    Sorry to say my generation has turned out to be the most corrupt, the Madoff gang, the bubble busters, how old are the old RE gurus now?  

    One thing my dad was right about, the younger generations are lazier, they don't have the work ethic of the old timers which is the unfortunate side, the good side is that life is much easier and younger generations have technology working for them, so they can afford to be lazier. 

    When you're in your 20's you think you have the world by the tail, in your 30's you have to know everything by then, the 40's let many know they missed the boat, by the 50's you realize you never knew it all and the end is near, by your 60's you're assessing the damage and your accomplishments, slowing down, then you prepare to live in your 70's and after that, you sit and try to remember what you can, wondering if you brought your family up right and if they will do better and if you really did your best. 

    Here, we get to see avatars, those getting into the business and trying to stake out their claims, the bucks are seeking new grounds to play in,  mentoring others, still wet behind the ears as we can see how young they are and trying to impress or teach others. Immaturity knows no age limit, however. Mentoring feeds the in flow of opportunities to work with others, getting 25% of 20 deals is better than getting all of 4 deals. It also sets the stage for future deals where your 4 deals won't play out very long. Hooking up with newbies is an old ploy.

    Such are the hey days of wholesaling, being an "investor" and making your fortune the easy way. But, 25% may stick with it and 10% may succeed, depends on how they grow and what they are made of. I can try to help them grow, along with a few others here, but it depends on what they are made of, their maturity and attitude if they are willing to learn or if they want to act like a big buck looking for short cuts. 

    You can't save everyone.

    I told you this was a social site, how's that for an observation in sociology!  :)        

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  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    @Ben Leybovich

    Ben, it means the industry is in a world hurt.

    Every generation complains about the two or three after them, my dad thought it was the end of the world when the Beatles landed and we tried to grow our hair longer. 

    Sorry to say my generation has turned out to be the most corrupt, the Madoff gang, the bubble busters, how old are the old RE gurus now?  

    One thing my dad was right about, the younger generations are lazier, they don't have the work ethic of the old timers which is the unfortunate side, the good side is that life is much easier and younger generations have technology working for them, so they can afford to be lazier. 

    When you're in your 20's you think you have the world by the tail, in your 30's you have to know everything by then, the 40's let many know they missed the boat, by the 50's you realize you never knew it all and the end is near, by your 60's you're assessing the damage and your accomplishments, slowing down, then you prepare to live in your 70's and after that, you sit and try to remember what you can, wondering if you brought your family up right and if they will do better and if you really did your best. 

    Here, we get to see avatars, those getting into the business and trying to stake out their claims, the bucks are seeking new grounds to play in,  mentoring others, still wet behind the ears as we can see how young they are and trying to impress or teach others. Immaturity knows no age limit, however. Mentoring feeds the in flow of opportunities to work with others, getting 25% of 20 deals is better than getting all of 4 deals. It also sets the stage for future deals where your 4 deals won't play out very long. Hooking up with newbies is an old ploy.

    Such are the hey days of wholesaling, being an "investor" and making your fortune the easy way. But, 25% may stick with it and 10% may succeed, depends on how they grow and what they are made of. I can try to help them grow, along with a few others here, but it depends on what they are made of, their maturity and attitude if they are willing to learn or if they want to act like a big buck looking for short cuts. 

    You can't save everyone.

    I told you this was a social site, how's that for an observation in sociology!  :)        

     Bill - as always - right on, and as always - I concur! My mentor, I call him Pop, once told me - by 40, if you are not firmly in the track, you are out of it. I made a post on BP blog about this a while back, since I turned 40 a few months ago. I found this statement most true and most profound... 

    The general age on BP is what - 23? And there you go :)

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    Ben, today I call them young adults, 5 years ago they were still kids, it's time to get serious and learn, they don't have as much time as they think! Cocky isn't cool, general RE takes experience and ten years isn't really experience, it's just a start. :) 

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  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y
    FINALLY! One thread that is longer than a single Bill Gulley post!
    All kidding aside, Brandon is a good guy and IMO a valuable contributor on BP. Though I would not entertain any ban of a subject (as long as something illegal is not being promoted) mine and others experience with some "wholesalers" has been far less than worthwhile. Reading post after post about tying up a property with inspection clauses, failing to find a buyer. and then panicking (oh my gosh what should I do???) certainly promotes a very negative light on the practice. I personally have purchased properties that were tied up by some of these types of operators, and found it at least minimally difficult to earn a sellers trust once they have been hurt by less than honest actors. As of today, they are batting zero in my book, but that could change in the future.  I do remember some posters that, by their own admission, are not honest, and I would not consider any transaction with them. There are, however, licensed agents I would not deal with as well. Choose your battles wisely, and be more careful choosing who you do business with.
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  • Account Closed
    Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    This brings up a bigger issue than a carte blanche ban on Wholesaling discussions. It's been upheld that wholesaling is the easiest way to get into it with little-to-no money. Therefore the most people who want to get into REI go to wholesaling. Unfortunately this absolutely swarms the forums with posts like, "How do I start Wholesaling" "How do I get into REI." I did a search for posts using the term "start wholesaling" and narrwoed it down to the last month. There were 980 hits. Bear in mind, BP search function only searches titles. Now perhaps they arent all the same question, but I gurantee over 2/3 are. If it is half, thats over 20 a day.

    All methods of starting in REI have this same issue "How do I start.." and the answer is: read the damned PDF and ***search*** in the forums for answers at least 5 times before posting. If we dont want BP to turn into another garbage forum with **** post after **** post, then something has to be done to rangle in these questions that have incredibly easy answers. Either immediate deletion by the Mods, or somekind of search only for the first 5 days.

    2Reply
  • John HornerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    So, I gained some insight here (which was the point of this post...I think)

    1) The majority agrees that wholesaling is a necessary evil (except for those that claim to be "professional wholesalers")...

    2) The only reason wholesaling exists is because there is a lack of licensed agents in the overall RE market to adequately meet the needs of investors (agreed and agreed)...

    3) Individuals ("investors") would rather educate folks to become good wholesalers through continued discussion of what not to do as a wholesaler so they can profit more in the future when they buy from them...?

    Right?...

    #2 is way off. RE Agents don't find off market deals. That is where wholesalers come in. I have bought 25 deals in the last year and all 25 have been off market deals from my marketing. Now I don't really wholesale anymore, but I market like a wholesaler. There are a lot of investors who are buying off market deals from wholesalers because the MLS is so competitive.

    Bottom line, wholesalers bring something to the table that AGENTS CAN'T.  IMO, almost every GOOD wholesaler I know has WAY more knowledge about investing then even the best investor-friendly agent.

    I also agree with all the folks who said that being an agent is not investing either, so why not ban forums about them?

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @John Horner

      I think your response is accurate for sure in your market.. but this is a very much regional thing when it comes to the RE agent Vs wholesaler who is better discussion.

    In your market you deal with homes that cost less than cars.. and unless an agent is a high volume OREO broker probably is not going to get all that excited about those types of properties at least the best agents and most experienced.. so its much like the rookie wholesaler who really has no clue.. RE agents that take a listing on a 20k house are probably newer or less experienced.

    And out here on the west coast were average sales prices are north of 300k so average commission are more in the 7 to 10k range per side.. there are many agents who market .. who do yellow letters for listings etc etc. and there are good agents that are very experienced in the rehab realm.. there is one agent here in PDX that just kills it. he can size up a home knows what the costs are and presents a rehab package to an investor makes the commission selling it which is usually 10k plus then gets the list back at another 10 to 15k on the new price.

    However in my experience which is pretty deep out your way funding in these areas were purchase price is so low.. I think your correct.. most folks that work in it daily have more knowledge than most realtors who probably don't want to work on 20 or 30k listings..

    even 100k listings are only 3k plus split with broker.. I know I would not waste a minute on it.  but it does leave a void.. that's for sure.

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